OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 01, 2014, 07:12:17 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow  (Read 1559 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,378



« on: October 11, 2004, 11:35:36 PM »

The three-dimensional, "westernized" techniques are not uncommon in the eastern Slavic countries (Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine).  Here are a few from the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow.

http://www.xxc.ru/foto/recon/s01/index.htm

Am I the only one who is looking at the icon of the Godhead in the dome and scratching my head? Are we seeing a new art style being invented here?
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2004, 11:38:34 PM »

No, the Cathedral got money from artistic foundations because it was slated as a reconstruction of the cathedral that was destroyed. So they had to do it almost exactly like it was before.

Anastasios
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
penelope
If I love the sea and all that is sealike, and love it most when it angrily contradicts me...
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134


OC.net


« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2004, 10:17:35 AM »

Isn't it problematic that God the Father is being represented?!
Logged

Let me love myself only if I love thee and do all things for thy sake.
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,408


« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2004, 12:00:41 PM »

Isn't it problematic that God the Father is being represented?!

Yes, but it happens anyway in some churches.  If the point was to recreate the church exactly how it was, then I understand the 'bad' iconography.
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2004, 12:25:58 PM »

Isn't it problematic that God the Father is being represented?!

Not really. Every once and awhile a council would try to say that it shouldn't happen but that never stopped anyone from doing it. It's been going on since iconography was invented.

Anastasios
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2004, 12:28:02 PM »

Here's a book on the subject. I haven't read it so I don't know its thesis:

http://www.svspress.com/product_info.php?products_id=106
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2004, 12:35:39 PM »

Would this not fly in the face of Ec. Council #7, with the whole "Christ is the image of the Fr. that can be depicted" thing?  

Isn't the point of iconography that now, through the incarnation, God the Son can be depicted as the Incarnate Christ, but the Father, in His unseeable form, cannot?

This has always bothered me.  I still don't agree w/it, and many priests have said things like, "yeah, it's wrong, but we do it anyway."  Well, if it's wrong, then...

Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,440


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2004, 12:46:54 PM »

Some say that depicting God the Father is actually depicting the Ancient of Days who appeared to Daniel. Go figure.

As for flying the face of #7, maybe that was a disciplinary canon enforced on people who never really had nor did accept it? Maybe it was unrealistic?

Anastasaios
Logged

Met. Demetrius's Enthronement

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2004, 02:50:13 PM »

Huh.  The "Ancient of Days" icons that I've seen, though, had "Grampa God," as I like to call that particular "depiction," with ICXC around Him.  So still Jesus, apparently?

How would not being able to depict God the Father -- a depiction which provoked the wrath of Moses when done via the golden calf -- a Being that no man has seen nor can see, of Whom Christ is the Image and Whose face would have killed Moses -- how can not depicting Him be "unrealistic"?

I'm just wondering...if the point was that we couldn't legitimately or worthily depict our God without thereby lessening Him -- that is, before Christ, who can be depicted, came along -- how is it appropriate for us to attempt to portray in any manner He Who still cannot be seen?
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
Tags: icons 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.051 seconds with 36 queries.