Orthodox Church In Jerusalem Possible Land Sale Fraud

[Hadel]

Hi all,

Please read below I have "pasted" from the Jordan Times this morning... thanks, Hadel

   
Orthodox Council urges probe into reported Jerusalem land sale   
   
AMMAN/JERUSALEM (JT and agencies) — Lower House Speaker Abdul Hadi Majali said on Sunday that the House and the government would work together to investigate a reported sale of sensitive Jerusalem property to Jewish organisations.
Majali's remarks were made in response to a petition signed by 53 deputies and presented by Deputy Khalil Attiyyeh, joining the Orthodox Council in Jordan and Palestine in urging the government to carry out the investigation.

They called for enforcing a 1958 law which they said defines relations between the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate and Arab followers of the church in the Holy Land, in order “to preserve Arab rights... because the orthodox cause is an integral part of the great Arab cause and the question of Palestine.”

An Israeli newspaper reported on Friday that a Greek Orthodox Church official secretly sold land in Jerusalem to Jews. The Maariv said the official, an aide to Patriarch Eireneos, sold the land to groups seeking to bolster Jewish presence in the area.

In Jerusalem, Arab leaders of the Greek Orthodox Church in the Holy Land demonstrated and called for the resignation of Patriarch Eireneos, accusing the church of betraying the Palestinian cause, the Associated Press reported.

The church said it was investigating the reported sale.

Dozens of faithful staged a protest in Jerusalem Sunday, calling Patriarch Eireneos a “collaborator” and demanding his resignation. Palestinian church leaders have also demanded that he step down.

Archbishop Aristarchos, the chief secretary of the patriarchate, declined to confirm or deny whether the sale had taken place.

“This is an unfortunate event. We are investigating,” he said. “We shall try to cancel whatever actions have been done illegally.”

In a statement, the church said any sale that might have taken place was unauthorised, adding that an arrest warrant had been issued in Greece for a former employee allegedly involved in the case. During Sunday's protest, several dozen people gathered at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre — the traditional site of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection — and marched to the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate, chanting slogans and carrying signs such as “no to Judaise Jerusalem” and “We will not rest until the patriarch is fired.”

“What is more difficult than witnessing the sale of Jerusalem?” said Ellen Kashram, a deputy school principal who joined the crowd.

When the patriarch left morning Mass, about 10 people started heckling him and calling him a collaborator.

Eireneos did not comment.

After a brief standoff with the Israeli police, Palestinian representatives of the church who were leading the protest met privately with the patriarch's aides.

Nabil Mshahwar, chairman of the Arab Orthodox Council of Jerusalem, said church leaders denied any connection to a land sale and said they suspect fraud. He added that the council informed the Jordanian and Palestinian governments about similar “illegal practices that seek to minimise Christian presence in the Holy City of Jerusalem before any negotiations over the future of Jerusalem take place.”

The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate represents about 100,000 faithful in the Holy Land, who represent about three per cent of the Christian society in the occupied territories. In Jordan, the Orthodox congregation constitutes about 55 per cent of Christian society.

The church is one of the biggest property owners in Jerusalem, including large tracts of real estate inside the Old City. It also shares control of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre with other Christian denominations.

Monday, March 21, 2005

   
   

[Antiochian]

I was absolutely outraged and ashamed at hearing of this.

How can our own church betray us like this?

Who on earth can we trust? I'm absolutely disgusted, and there needs to be a serious overhaul of the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem.

I feel betrayed by the Greeks, something has to be done about this.

How shameful, and during our fasting period as well. I am disgusted!

[TomS]

Church rift over land sale scandal?
RAMALLAH (AFP) - The Greek Orthodox Church was flung into a fresh crisis yesterday as Palestinian MPs voted for Arab Orthodox Christians to secede from the Greek Patriarchate of Jerusalem following its alleged sale of land in the ancient city to Jewish investors.

The latest twist in the ongoing scandal, which has resurrected a bitter split within the Greek Orthodox community in the Holy Land, came as Patriarch Irenaios denied any involvement in the alleged land sale in Jerusalem’s Old City.

“I formally and categorically deny any personal implication, or implication of the Patriarchate in this alleged transaction, the details of which we know nothing,” he said in a statement four days after the scandal broke.

But in a special session to discuss the crisis, the Palestinian Parliament passed a resolution urging the Palestinian Authority to no longer recognize the authority of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate over the Orthodox Arab community.

The resolution calls on the Palestinian leadership “not to recognize the patriarch,” and “to work through legal means for the Arabization of the Orthodox Church” in the occupied Palestinian territories.

“We must separate the Palestinian Orthodox Church from the Greek Orthodox Church,” said MP Hanan Ashrawi during the debate. “We must solve this crisis by making the church an Arab church.”

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100008_23/03/2005_54363

[Αριστοκλής]

I don't see how PHYLETISM and a schismatic church are going to solve a problem, if indeed there is one outside of the activist Arabs wanting to control the church.
If the JP did wrong, he should be brought to account. Splitting the JP will be its death sentence.

[Antiochian]

In order to calm down the situation, a MASSIVE overhaul of the Greek Church in Jerusalem is needed!

How can they sell a piece of OUR land? I don't see Jewish rabbis involved in stingy deals helping our community. There is obviously corruption in the ranks of the Greek Orthodox Church and it has two options ... clean its church out, or face a schism, starting with Palestine! And I can assure you, if this continues, I will be lobbying for a similar schism in Antioch. I will not stand for betrayal and Athenian corruption.

[Αριστοκλής]

In order to calm down the situation, a MASSIVE overhaul of the Greek Church in Jerusalem is needed!

How can they sell a piece of OUR land? I don't see Jewish rabbis involved in stingy deals helping our community. There is obviously corruption in the ranks of the Greek Orthodox Church and it has two options ... clean its church out, or face a schism, starting with Palestine! And I can assure you, if this continues, I will be lobbying for a similar schism in Antioch. I will not stand for betrayal and Athenian corruption.

IF there is a problem, then I heartily agree with you. BUT I smell the machinations of an Israeli ploy to obtain yet more Christian assets, for little consideration as usual I might add.
Schism will allow the Israeli to more easily plunder - better believe it.
Athenian corruption? Strange - they seem to support this church in money quite heavily.
BTW, the quoted news story is not exactly from a church friendly publication.
Split Antioch? What a laugh! Why split the only Arab church - they got control from "the Greeks" long ago.

[Fr. Anastasios]

This isn't the first time that the Israelis have tried something like this, and unfortunately when it happened in 1994/5, the Antiochians in America published in "The Word" a long attack on the Jerusalem Patriarchate.  The Antiochians want to see a repeat of what happened in their patriarchate in 1898 happen in Jerusalem but with the Antiochians supporting Jerusalem with bishops instead of Greece, that would basically end the JP's conservative Old Calendar and traditionalist witness.

I am for reform--maybe adding a few Arab bishops for instance--but no way would I support ending the JP's current status quo altogether.

And we should really be more sypathetic to the JP. It's under seige by Muslims, Israelis, Catholics, and Protestants!

Anastasios

[Αριστοκλής]

...that would basically end the JP's conservative Old Calendar and traditionalist witness.

A real travesty to be sure. The JP's position is one of the reasons I stay in the GOA (I know that doesn't follow logically; but I see the JP as an anchor against the modernist tide).

And we should really be more sypathetic to the JP. It's under seige by Muslims, Israelis, Catholics, and Protestants!

AND by a large part of his own flock, apparently.

[observer]

<The resolution calls on the Palestinian leadership “not to recognize the patriarch,” and “to work through legal means for the Arabization of the Orthodox Church” in the occupied Palestinian territories.>

This is not new.  Some Arabs in the Antiochian Church have been striiving to make JP, Arab for years.   His Holiness Patriarch Irenaeos is caught in the middle of a land grab.  The Israelis want the whole of Jerusalem and so do the Arabs.  This has nothing to do with Church. That the JP owns property seized by the Israeli Govenment does not make the Patriarchate collaborators.  Read the press on both sides. What better way to undermine traditional Orthodoxy than to start false allegations against the Mother of Churches or to sow discord between brethren.  By the grace of God, the Holy Fire will descend at Pascha as always!

[MBZ]

Hi all!

This was in the English edition of yesterday's Ha'aretz (one of our main daily papers here):

Last update - 02:24 23/03/2005

Greek Patriarchate in trouble over shady land deal

By Danny Rubinstein

Last Friday evening Jerusalem's Greek Orthodox patriarch issued an urgent press release: "In light of the media reports regarding the sale of the Patriarchate's assets in Omar Ibn Al-Khattab Square in Jerusalem," read the statement, "I, Irineos I, patriarch of the Holy City, rigorously and absolutely deny, personally or in the capacity of my position, any connection with this fictitious transaction, about which we so far have no knowledge."

Irineos went on to say that he will sue anyone who claims otherwise, and that only the supreme body of the Patriarchate, the Holy Synod, is authorized to sell church assets.

This news release came in response to a main headline in Friday's edition of Maariv, which said that two groups of Jewish investors from abroad had purchased church assets in the Jaffa Gate plaza (Omar Ibn Al-Khattab Square), including the two long-standing Petra and Imperial hotels and a few stores.

According to the Maariv report, the church assets were sold by a young Greek named Nicholas Papadimas, who had received a power of attorney for this purpose. Representatives of the Patriarchate explained last weekend that Papadimas received a power of attorney to rent the church's properties, but not to sell them, so the sale, if there even was one, is not valid.

The nature of the transaction concerning the church's assets near Jaffa Gate is not clear, but one thing that is certain is that the report caused quite a stir in the Palestinian Authority, in Jerusalem's Christian community, in Jordan and even in Greece. Irineos' strident denial has not helped him.

Ever since the news item appeared five days ago, PA government and parliamentary committees have been investigating the affair. The Jordanian government has also asked to be included in the probe, and the Greek Foreign Ministry sent a special delegation to Israel, which spent the entire day yesterday in a series of meetings with Irineos and his officials.

"I will cooperate with any inquiry," said Irineos, while the Greek Foreign Ministry has issued an announcement that according to the information in its possession, "if any deal was transacted with those assets, it has no validity as it was conducted in violation of church laws and without the knowledge of the Holy Synod."

A very sharp response to the reports also came from Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia.

"This is a most dangerous affair," said Qureia, who in recent days has reiterated his demand to do everything to cancel the sale of the properties. "Israel is mistaken if she thinks she can change the Arab and Christian character of the Holy City by such measures."

Qureia lambasted all the activities aimed at "Judaizing Jerusalem" and the construction of the "racist separation wall" around it, which he feels is designed to oust all the Arabs from the city.

The plaza of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, adjacent to the Patriarchate, has been the site since Sunday of a series of demonstrations by members of the Christian Arab community, organized by the Christian Coalition action committee. Committee leaders have repeatedly announced that they will not rest or be silent until Patriarch Irineos is unseated. The committee, headed by Marwan Toubasi, Imad Awad and Dimitri Diliani, is raising the familiar demand to transfer the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem from the Greek priests to the Arab priests, claiming that "the Greek Patriarchate has become a branch of the Jewish Agency."

Most of the Christian churches in the Holy Land have undergone a process of Arabization in recent years, with local Arab clergy replacing foreign priests. Only the Orthodox Patriarchate continues to be controlled with a heavy hand by the Greeks, while the Arab priests ask rhetorically, "Did you bring the church lands with you on ships from Greece? These are the lands and the homes of our forefathers."

The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate is the oldest and richest in Israel. It owns extensive properties in every corner of Israel, in the neighboring countries and overseas, including in Greece. It is a kind of miniature kingdom controlled by the patriarch, above whom there is no higher authority. Only a few restrictions are placed on him by the 17 Greek priests, members of the Holy Synod, and the patriarch is effectively an omnipotent ruler concerning the church assets.

For years there have been news reports of corruption within the church and the involvement of powerful organizations in the fate of the Patriarchate's assets. Foreign governments, contractors and various intelligence services, tycoons and oligarchs meddle in the affairs of the church and its assets. Dozens of attorneys, both Israeli and foreign, work for the church, which is rife with power struggles and a strong undercurrent of chaos.

The current wave of scandals in the Patriarchate began in 2000, after the death of the previous Patriarch, Diadoros. Three senior priests waged a fierce campaign for the position of patriarch, who is elected by representatives of the church institutions. The election campaign was accompanied by threats, pressure, forged documents and worse. Metropolitan Irineos, who was finally chosen, was assisted in his campaign by a Greek citizen named Apostolos Vavilis, who later turned out to be a con artist with several identities and who had served time in prison for drug trafficking.

Vavilis, who even now is a fugitive wanted by Interpol, has been at the eye of the huge political storm in Greece in recent weeks, after it turned out he had connections with Archbishop Christodoulos, head of the Orthodox Church in Greece and one of the most influential people in that country. Christodoulos apparently sent Vavilis to Jerusalem to help Irineos' election campaign.

The Greek media have been having a media fest with the story, intimating that Vavilis, who was married to an Israeli, might be a Mossad agent, and that he had dealings with the Israeli Defense Ministry and even sold Israeli military equipment to the Greek police.

After Irineos was elected patriarch in August 2001, he distanced himself from Vavilis and shortly thereafter hired a young Greek, namely Papadimas, who was living in Tel Aviv. Papadimas became Irineos' confidante in all matters concerning the Patriarchate's properties and finances. Three weeks ago Papadimas suddenly disappeared, along with his Israeli wife and their infant son.

At first the Patriarchate claimed that he had stolen millions of dollars. Then it turned out that he had not fled as a thief, but rather because he had become a victim of the squabbles within the Patriarchate and feared someone would harm him and his family.

Either way, Papadimas has been in hiding for the past few weeks, and is now suspected of being the man who sold the hotels and stores at Jaffa gate on behalf of Irineos to a group of Jews from abroad. Irineos is now a victim of the whole affair, and it is doubtful whether he will be able to recover from this scandal, as pressure increases for his ouster.

Just a few months ago, Irineos complained to the police that someone was trying to murder him. The police arrested a suspect, but he was released when the allegations against him were proven groundless.

Now Irineos will have to face extensive inquiries. The big winners now are his opponents, priests within the Patriarchate, who want to replace him. They seem to be close to their goal.

Link: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/555596.html

Be well!

MBZ

[Antiochian]

Thank God the land isn't being sold, thank you MBZ.

As for the Antiochian Church, we're still affiliated to some extent with the Greek Orthodox Church. After all, we are still correctly titled the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch.

The Hellenistic era of the Middle East is over, so why persist with having Greek clergy preside over an Arab mass?

If the Greeks wish to remain in charge of the Arab Christians, then they must represent the opinions of the Arab Christians and be extremely sensitive to our issues.

At the end of the day, we are all Orthodox Christians, and we should all support each other in need. I don't think anyone can attack me for my sense of outrage and betrayal at hearing of a Greek Orthodox Christian selling the Arab Orthodox short in favour of personal deals with the arch enemy.

I and all Arab Orthodox I know have supported Greece's struggle against Turkey, particularly in their loss of Constantinople, as well as supporting Cyprus. I think it's fair to expect the same support from the Greek Orthodox in issues concerning us.

[Αριστοκλής]

As for the Antiochian Church, we're still affiliated to some extent with the Greek Orthodox Church. After all, we are still correctly titled the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch.

You lessen the force of your argument by a silly statement. "Greek" Orthodox does not mean Hellenic any more than "Roman" Catholic means Italian.

The Hellenistic era of the Middle East is over, so why persist with having Greek clergy preside over an Arab mass?

And so it was with the Serbs; in time they got their own.

[MBZ]

Hi all!

I saw this on the AFP wire late yesterday:

Athens opposes 'Arabisation' of Greek Orthodox Church in Jerusalem

Wed Mar 23, 4:09 PM ET

ATHENS (AFP) - The Greek government said it will defend the historical character of the Greek Orthodox Church in Jerusalem, following Palestinian calls for its "Arabisation."

In Ramallah, on the West Bank, Palestinian MPs -- furious at the alleged sale of Jerusalem land to Jewish investors by the Greek patriarchy -- voted Tuesday for Arab Orthodox Christians to secede from the Greek patriarchy.

They passed a resolution urging the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites) to no longer recognise the authority of the Greek Orthodox patriarchy over the Orthodox Arab community.

Denials of the alleged land sale, issued by Greek Patriarch Irineos I in Jerusalem, fell on deaf ears.

A Greek government spokesman, Evangelos Antonaros, said here that the Greek Orthodox patriarchy in Jerusalem had a history spanning centuries, and he believed most of the flock would not want to abandon it.

An investigation into the matter is under way, assisted by Greek foreign ministry experts who arrived in the Old City on Monday.

"Taking the results of the investigation into consideration, we will decide on steps that will defend the patriarchy's historical characteristics," Antonaros said.

The Greek team includes lawyers, financial experts and the Greek foreign ministry's head of religious affairs, the Greek embassy in Jerusalem said.

"The foreign ministry sent its group of experts to Jerusalem on Monday who are charged with investigating the reported sale of real estate of the Patriarch of Jerusalem," it said in a statement.

Allegations about the land sale were first published in Israel's Maariv daily.

Purchasing property in the Old City -- in occupied and annexed east Jerusalem -- is fraught with political tensions as Jewish groups often try to obtain properties in Palestinian areas in a major settlement drive.

Link: http://tinyurl.com/5tzc7

I've read where one of the reasons which led to the secession of some local Greek Orthodox & the setting up of the uniate Greek Cathoilic (Melkite) Church in the early-to-mid 1700's in this part of the world was a desire for an "Arabised" church with an Arabic liturgy & an Arabic-speaking clergy. Is this right?

Be well!

MBZ

[Αριστοκλής]

I've read where one of the reasons which led to the secession of some local Greek Orthodox & the setting up of the uniate Greek Cathoilic (Melkite) Church in the early-to-mid 1700's in this part of the world was a desire for an "Arabised" church with an Arabic liturgy & an Arabic-speaking clergy. Is this right?

I had not heard of the language issue causing this 1724(?) schism; however that should be a moot point in the case of the JP. Greek is used at the patriarchate itself and in heirarchal liturgies. Otherwise Arabic is used.

[Orthodoc]

[I've read where one of the reasons which led to the secession of some local Greek Orthodox & the setting up of the uniate Greek Cathoilic (Melkite) Church in the early-to-mid 1700's in this part of the world was a desire for an "Arabised" church with an Arabic liturgy & an Arabic-speaking clergy.  Is this right?]

This is correct.  The melkite Greek Catholic Church was mainly the result of the Greek mentality to both Hellenize and force Greek down the throats of non Greeks.  Unfortunately the first time the Divine Liturgy was heard in Arabic was as Melchite Greek Catholics.

Did you knowthat the first time the Albanian Orthodox Church was able to hear the Divine Liturgy in Albanian was here in the U.S. because for the same reasons?

Orthodoc

[Αριστοκλής]

And, of course, it was those dastardly Greeks who recently reconstituted the Albanian Orthodox Church and who continue to foster its revitalization...how dare they!

[observer]

Today we celebrate the holy memory of St Sophronios, Patrarchate of Jerusalem, who is reported to have been an Arab. I don't suppose he called himself Arab Orthodox or Greek Orthodox, but if he had to label his Orthodoxy, it would probably be Roman Orthodox (Fr John Romanides..he.he.).
Would it be good to see a non ethnic Roman as Patriarch? If he is a holy man, then yes. Let stay with Irenaeos, who is in essence a monk first, then bishop.

[Deacon Lance]

"Let stay with Irenaeos, who is in essence a monk first, then bishop."

I would say trouble maker first.  Since being enthroned he has gotten into fights with the Armenians (scuffle over the Holy Fire), Copts (knocked candles in the Copt Chapel down), Syrians (had monks grab and break crozier of Syrian bishop), and Franciscans (demanded Franciscan Chapel door closed and started fight), and plans to make trouble yet again by violating the status quo and demanding that his procession go through the Franciscan Chapel.  The previous Patrirarch had not a single incident that I can recall.  I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but four incidents with separate groups and it is not hard to see who the instigator is.

Fr. Deacon Lance

[GiC]

Well, as I regard the Patriarch of Jerusalem to the the only legitimate Bishop of the City, so it seems to me that the others are violating proper canonical order by not giving him the respect that is due. But then again, as an Orthodox Christian I may be a little biased (not that this is a bad thing).

[Αριστοκλής]

Before the fireworks start, greekischristian, I just want to state now that I'm on your side 

[Fr. Anastasios]

Deacon Lance,

An eyewitness to the Franciscan scuffle made it clear to me that the Franciscans started it. They wouldn't shut that door, they were supposed to, and they were taunting the Greeks.  In the Holy Sepulchre, precedent is an oft-cited tool of either side in court cases. If the Franciscans had kept that door opened and moved in on the turf of the Orthodox, it could have led to the Orthodox losing more space. That's why the boundaries are jealously guarded.

Anastasios

[Orthodoc]

Deacon Lance,

An eyewitness to the Franciscan scuffle made it clear to me that the Franciscans started it. They wouldn't shut that door, they were supposed to, and they were taunting the Greeks. In the Holy Sepulchre, precedent is an oft-cited tool of either side in court cases. If the Franciscans had kept that door opened and moved in on the turf of the Orthodox, it could have led to the Orthodox losing more space. That's why the boundaries are jealously guarded.

Anastasios

==========

I also notice Deacon lance  fails to give the take over of the 'Church of the Nativity' a few years back as another example.

That was when these very Franciscians escorted the Moselms to the Orthodox section of the Church of the Nativity and locked the doors behind them! All the desecration was done in the Orthodox section while the Roman Catholic section was left untouched.

Regarding the incident of the Holy Fire in 2003 that Deacon Lance refers to, once again it was caused by the Armenians trying to take advantage of the new Patriarch by turning their backs on centuries of protocol.

Protocol is important in this Church. If it is not followed it immediately creates a new precedent for some -

http://www.holyfire.org/eng/doc_Tablet_2003.htm


The dispute is a year old. Last year’s Holy Fire ceremony was marred by a scandalous scuffle inside the shrine containing what remains of Christ’s tomb. The Greek Patriarch, Irineos, who was performing the ritual for the first time, and an Armenian archimandrite who had three years’ practice behind him, violently disagreed over the correct procedure. Ancient privilege and precedent were at stake. Unseen by the expectant faithful, behind the aedicule’s closed doors, the furious patriarch blew out the Armenian’s candle, lit with holy fire, forcing the Armenian to resort to a cigarette lighter to gain his point. The Greek lost a shoe in the scuffle and his rival sustained light injuries when two more Greek clergy and Israeli police burst into the shrine to join the fray.

What really happened between the Orthodox and Armenian Patriarchates -

On Tuesday, Sharansky summoned representatives from the Greek Orthodox and Armenian Churches and told them that they must reach an agreement by today, or he would limit participation to 500 people from each church.

"It is not the place of the Jewish state to intervene in Christian worship," said Sharansky, "but we will ensure safety."

The Holy Fire ceremony has been observed by Eastern Orthodox churches for several centuries. For the ritual, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is darkened on the day before Easter.

Orthodox church leaders enter the area of what is believed to be Jesus' tomb inside the basilica and emerge with a flame, from which the candles of worshipers crowded in the ancient church are lit.

The ceremony is meant to assure the faithful that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire.

The dispute concerns a change in protocol that is hundreds of years old, explained Bishop Aris Shirvanian, director of Ecumenical and Foreign Relations in the Armenian Church.

The Armenians say that tradition dictates that the Greek Patriarch enter the holiest site in the Church, called the Chamber of the Tomb, followed by a representative of the Armenian Patriarch, who then light candles from the holy fire.

However, the Greeks say that the Armenian representative has traditionally waited outside in the less-holy Chamber of Angels, and only in recent years has he entered, taking advantage of the former Greek Patriarch's illness.

According to Shirvanian, things went awry last year when the new Greek Patriarch insisted on exiting the chamber first, although the Armenian is closer to the exit and by tradition leaves first.

When the Armenian representative insisted on being first out, the Greek Patriarch grabbed his arm and extinguished the holy fire.

"Regrettably, a scuffle ensued," said Shirvanian.

The Greek demand that the Armenian representative wait outside in the Chamber of Angels "is totally unacceptable to us," he said.

But the Greek Orthodox leader is just as adamant. Archbishop Aristarchos of the Greek Church said, "This is the tradition according to documents which we have found and submitted."    
   

==========

Orthodoc   

[Antiochian]

That isn't a silly statement at all, (do you have a name I can type in Latin characters)?

I am aware the term "Greek" in Orthodox has nothing to do with Hellenism. I refer to myself as Greek Orthodox, I have no concerns with that. I was referring to the fact that there remains ethnic Greek clergy who preside over Arab masses.

As for the land sale, I'm unsure now, did the sale go ahead or not?

[Αριστοκλής]

That isn't a silly statement at all, (do you have a name I can type in Latin characters)?

Yes; +ö++++++-ä-ü+¦++-é

I am aware the term "Greek" in Orthodox has nothing to do with Hellenism. I refer to myself as Greek Orthodox, I have no concerns with that. I was referring to the fact that there remains ethnic Greek clergy who preside over Arab masses.

You mean there are NO Arab speaking priests? Or that there are NO ethnic Arabs priests?

Is the JP even your church? Are you a Palestinian living in Syria or a Syrian? You are coming across as an Arab nationalist - not that there is anything wrong with that intrinsically. You do realize that on this heavily American forum on Orthodoxy that most of us have priests and bishops of a different ethnic background than ourselves.

As for the land sale, I'm unsure now, did the sale go ahead or not?

No idea. I did warn about the "news" source...

[observer]

Bishop Sylvestris is Arab and clergy in USA are mostly Arab too.

[Deacon Lance]

Orthodoc,

"According to Shirvanian, things went awry last year when the new Greek Patriarch insisted on exiting the chamber first, although the Armenian is closer to the exit and by tradition leaves first."

The Greek Patriarch also broke protocol and he wants to break it again by demanding to process through areas he has never processes through according to status quo.

I was not aware of the incident at the Nativity Church, if it is as you say that is a shameful act.

Fr. Deacon Lance

[Deacon Lance]

Anastasios,

"An eyewitness to the Franciscan scuffle made it clear to me that the Franciscans started it."

The Franciscans wouldn't shut the door so they did instigate, however it was the Greeks who started throwing fists according to Israeli police.  Nor is it the only time they have done so.  Breaking the Syrian bishops crozier?  Knocking down candles in the Copt's Chapel?

Fr. Deacon Lance

[Αριστοκλής]

Bishop Sylvestris is Arab and clergy in USA are mostly Arab too.

Is this Antioch or JP? I was refering to Jerusalem in my (rhetorical) question.

[Orthodoc]

Orthodoc,

"According to Shirvanian, things went awry last year when the new Greek Patriarch insisted on exiting the chamber first, although the Armenian is closer to the exit and by tradition leaves first."

[The Greek Patriarch also broke protocol and he wants to break it again by demanding to process through areas he has never processes through according to status quo.

I was not aware of the incident at the Nativity Church, if it is as you say that is a shameful act.

Fr. Deacon Lance ]

I notice you neglect to include the previous paragraph in you quote which clearly states (and I can verify by video tapes I have -

"However, the Greeks say that the Armenian representative has traditionally waited outside in the less-holy Chamber of Angels, and only in recent years has he entered, taking advantage of the former Greek Patriarch's illness."



As I have already stated I have two separate videos of this event taken at two different times prior to the yeaer 2000.  On both videos it shows only the JP entering the tomb while the Armenian prelate waits outside to receive the 'Holy Fire'!  He only statred to go in with the JP in the last year or so and that's what started this whole thing.

Rules have to be followed and an open door signifies an invitation to enter.  Previously the door to the Franciscian area remained closed and that was respected.  This year it was open which confused the Orthodox.  The rucus started when the JP asked them if it meant they wanted him to enter and they replied "No".  The JP then reminded him that the door should be closed according to the agreed upon protocol!

Every inch of both the 'Holy Seplechure' and the 'Church of the Nativity' are closely guarded by those who have access to it including the papal Catholic sections.  Everytime protocol is not followed the Orthodox end up losing.

I know nothing of the other two incidents you speak of.

Orthodoc

[TomS]

Clear message expected from 10 bishops

"Resign" 29 Mar 2005 11:33:00   
 
By Athina Saloustrou

There are ultimately expected to be ten Metropolitan Bishops who, in statement before the end of the day, will call for the resignation of Patriarch Erinaios. According to reliable information from NET 105.8, besides the three, Archbishop Aristarchos of Konstantini, Korinthios of Petra and Damaskinos of Ioppi, who have already called for the resignation, it has been signed by a further six, while one more is expected to sign within the day. In the meantime, a 72-hour deadline was yesterday given to Patriarch Erinaios by the government of Jordan, who asked to be informed in writing as to whether there have been, through sales or long-term renting, changes to the Patriarchy’s property. "It is not only the Patriarchy, but Orthodoxy itself that is harmed. Now Erinaios must make his decisions," stated the representative of the Palestinian Authority in Athens, Ishmat Sambri on NET 105.8, adding nonetheless that there is no question of "Arab-ising" the Patriarchy, which is "unfounded talk of danger." Besides this, when asked about the situation in the Patriarchy, Israel’s Ambassador to Athens, Ram Aviram stated "the State of Israel supports maintaining the status quo, with the Greek character of the Patriarchy."

"With each day that passes, the bearer of the highest title in the Patriarchy of Jerusalem is doubted," noted PASOK MP Andreas Loverdos on NET 105.8. The government and the Opposition agree that the Greek Orthodox character of the Patriarchy must be guarded, while SYN’s President Alekos Alavanos voiced his support for the resignation of Erinaios.

The Foreign Ministry’s expert report is expected today.

[Αριστοκλής]

PASOK, yeah right...
Quote the source Tom...

[TomS]

Arab revolt in Jerusalem Church

Greece probes church land sales after Palestinians call for the Arabisationof the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate

GEORGE GILSON
 
THE ARAB Orthodox backlash against Patriarch Eirinaios of Jerusalem has spun out of control after revelations that the patriarchate had secretly sold extremely valuable and politically crucial properties in Arab East Jerusalem, on the 1967 border between Israel and the Palestinian territories, to Jewish investors.

Two Palestinian-run hotels, the Imperial and the Petra, as well as a number of shops and homes in the same area, were sold to two groups of Jewish investors from outside Israel by the patriarchate's ex-financial officer, Nikos Papadimas, according to a bombshell report published in the Israeli daily Ma'ariv on March 18.

Diplomatic sources told the Athens News that the value of the package deal is estimated at about $320 million.

The revelations have brought a virtual Arab Orthodox revolt against Eirinaios, with calls that the patriarchate be "Arabised".

The Greek government and opposition parties have distanced themselves from the patriarch, cutting him loose amidst a torrent of media rumours that the government would like to force Eirinaios to resign. Many believe this is the best way to preserve the patriarchate's control over Christianity's holiest shrines and to perpetuate the Greekness of the patriarchate.

A six-member group of foreign ministry and finance ministry officials, led by Ambassador Panagiotis Karakasis went to Jerusalem to investigate the land sales between March 22 and 24. They met with Eirinaios for four hours on March 22 and were expected to be granted rare accesss to patriarchate financial records, denied even to the church's bishops.

Patriarch passes buck

Eirinaios had given Papadimas a sweeping power of attorney that granted him complete administrative control over all real estate, including the power to sell and rent, and over cash assets. But the patriarch later claimed that Papadimas had abused this, and he sued his former financial officer in a Greek court for "felony-level crimes". Some sources at the patriarchate have suggested that Papadimas may have embezzled as much as $5 million. Greek authorities have isssued a warrant for his arrest.

Eirinaios has absolved himself of all responsibility for the land sales, claiming that he and the Holy Synod had not personally approved the deal. But the synod has not had a say in the administration of church property for decades, and it was Eirinaios who gave Papadimas carte blanche over church assets.

In a statement issued on March 18, the patriarchate stated that "the power of attorney discussed is null and void because it was not issued by the patriarch with the consensus of the Holy Synod... A buyer or seller of such a strategically inmportant property necessarily has the responsibility to know that the explicit written approval of the patriarch of Jerusalem and the Holy Synod is needed to make such a transaction." It is questionable whether an Israeli court would annul a property sale on the grounds that internal church regulations were not followed.

Arab Orthodox unite

The revelation mobilised Palestinian and Jordanian Orthodox faithful against the patriarchate as never before. One Orthodox Christian Jordanian MP, Audeh Qawash, gathered the signatures of 67 members of the 110-member Jordanian parliament on a petition requesting immediate drastic measures to deal with the crisis. Some are even calling for King Abdullah to withdraw recognition of Eirinaios.

In an effort to coordinate the response of Jordanians and Palestinians, Qawash met with Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei on March 22, but nothing was made public on the outcome of the meeting.

Jordanian authorities plan to cooperate with the Greek government in an attempt to forge a joint approach between Jordan, Palestine and Greece.

Greek Deputy Foreign Minister Panagiotis Scandalakis met in Athens with the ambassadors of Israel, Jordan and Palestine on March 23 in order to cooperate towards transcending the crisis. The foreign envoys underlined that the Greek character of the patriarchate is not being challenged, a position that relieved Athens after the uproar in Jerusalem.

Nevertheless, the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) discussed the land sales at a special meeting on March 22 and pledged that it will "work through legal, political and religious means to Arabise the Orthodox Church and all other churches and will insist on their Arab features". It also insisted that the Greek flag and any other foreign flags be removed from churches and shrines in the Holy Land and "that the Palestinian flag will be the only one raised on all churches".

Palestinian MP, Hanan Ashrawi, also called for the Arab faithful to take control of the Orthodox patriarchate. That a politician of her stature had taken such an extreme position rang alarm bells in Greek diplomatic circles.

Greek diplomatic sources told the Athens News that such a move is legally and ecclesiologically impossible and that a move to Arabise the patriarchate would "destroy our house and theirs".

The council decided that it "strongly denounces and condemns the involvement of any party or individual from inside the Orthodox patriarchate in the selling of properties and real estate in the City of Jerusalem". It also demanded that the Palestinian National Authority "take all necessary legal action against all involved" and vowed that it "will raise the issue in international society and the International [UN] Security Council for the purpose of putting an end to the continuous Israeli aggressions and will explain the illegal and illegitimate forged deals on the properties of the Orthodox Community followers".

The Palestinians also said they would ask the Greek government to take necessary legal action against Greek citizens involved in the selling of "properties belonging to the community followers".

In fact, the title to the properties in question belongs to their patriarchate, which is run by the mostly Greek Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre. But the patriarchate's flock is overwhelmingly comprised of Palestinian and Jordanian Arabs. The Arab Orthodox faithful have long demanded enforcement of a 1958 Jordanian law, which required the patriarchate to give an annual financial accounting to joint committees of clergy and laity. The church hierarchy has long expressed reservation about the law, but some bishops stress the critical point that its provisions guarantee the preservation of the Greek character of the patriarchate.

"The PLC praises the announced Greek stand regarding the case and affirms its care to strengthen and develop the Greek-Palestinian relations for the purpose of serving the best interests of both peoples. The PLC hopes that the Greek parliament and Greek government would exert the necessary effort to affirm that the deal was illegal and will cancel it completely," a March 22 communique stated.


ATHENS NEWS , 25/03/2005, page: A03
Article code: C13123A031

Palestinian Orthodox Christian faithful shout to Greek Orthodox Patriarch Eirinaios (R) to resign as they gather outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City on March 20 to protest against the church's alleged sale of sensitive property to Jewish organisations 

[TomS]

PASOK, yeah right...
Quote the source Tom...

The source where I got it from was http://www.phantis.com/ which linked to here: http://news.ert.gr/en/newsDetails.asp?id=6554

[Αριστοκλής]

The source where I got it from was http://www.phantis.com/ which linked to here: http://news.ert.gr/en/newsDetails.asp?id=6554

Yup; PASOK
Witnessing the end of the Church of Jerusalem
Hope you hellenophobics are happy. I'm sure muck-rakerTom is...

[TomS]

Patriarch Hazim: Selling church lands in Jerusalem unacceptable
Palestine, Politics, 3/29/2005

Patriarch Ignace IV Hazim of Antioch and All East for the Roman Orthodox declared that any selling of lands that belong to the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem is unacceptable as they are endowments and nobody has a right to decide their status.

Patriarch Hazim told a news conference in Damascus Monday that selling off such kind of lands constitutes a harm for the Church and supports the policy of Israeli occupation authorities in the Judaization of the region.

He added that the Church contacted some circles and countries concerned, particularly Greece, as the man who sought to sell the trusts of the Church has the Greek nationality.

He welcomed joint Christian-Moslem efforts to put an end to all acts that aim at seizing lands that belong the Christians and Moslems in the occupied territories.

The Patriarch also called for electing an Arab Patriarch for the Orthdox Church in Jerusalem.

[Αριστοκλής]

Big deal...not his see

[Antiochian]

Yes; +ö++++++-ä-ü+¦++-é

I said Latin characters.

You mean there are NO Arab speaking priests? Or that there are NO ethnic Arabs priests?

I was referring to the Greek-run Jerusalem Patriarchate.

Is the JP even your church? Are you a Palestinian living in Syria or a Syrian? You are coming across as an Arab nationalist - not that there is anything wrong with that intrinsically. You do realize that on this heavily American forum on Orthodoxy that most of us have priests and bishops of a different ethnic background than ourselves.

Look at my nick, do you think I'm in the JP?
I'm originally Lebanese, and I pertain to the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch. The Palestinian and Jordanian Greek Orthodox faithful are our brethren by ethnicity and by religion, so I have plenty of right to protest against the Greek Patriarchate selling the Arab Orthodox short. I had absolutely no problems with having non-Arabs run an Arab church, but this Greek Patriarchate has committed a grave a sin against those it is meant to represent, and as such they should be removed.

JP will be like Antioch. We will still be titled the Greek Orthodox Church, but it will have an Arab character.

Don't accuse us of being hellenophobes, I stand by all Orthodox in the world including Greece and Cyprus, but when one does wrong, I'm sorry corrections have to be made. This isn't a matter of us rejecting Greek culture, it's a matter of you rejecting Arab culture. I take great offense to your cmoment that the JP will cease to exist under Arab influence, in fact I consider it racism. How can you claim to be a Christian yet have such a racist mentality? The Greeks are no better than anyone, and no less.

[TomS]

NEWS
 
Patriarch handed a loaded gun

Without quite formally urging the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Jerusalem to resign, Greece yesterday effectively handed the embattled Irenaios a loaded gun and invited him to do the decent thing over the alleged sale of Church land in the holy city's Arab section to Jewish settlers.

-½Obviously, the image currently presented by the Patriarchate is not what it should be, and does not uphold its prestige,-+ Foreign Ministry spokesman Giorgos Koumoutsakos told a press conference in Athens - called to present a damning report by Greek diplomats on the Patriarchate's part in the scandal.

The allegations, printed in an Israeli newspaper this month, enraged Palestinian and Jordanian officials, while leading Arab members of Irenaios's flock demanded his resignation and called into question the presence of Greek clerics at the top of the Patriarchate's hierarchy. Greek bishops also called for his head. The patriarch denies the claims, and has repeatedly refused to step down.

-½We invite Mr Irenaios to reflect on the crucial state of affairs, prove himself equal to the circumstances and shoulder his historic responsibility,-+ Koumoutsakos said, adding that while Greece did not wish to interfere in the Patriarchate's internal affairs, -½this should not be misconstrued as support for people or forms of behavior that do not uphold the Patriarchate's prestige.-+

Athens sent a team of experts to Jerusalem between March 21-25, to investigate the scandal.

Koumoutsakos accused Irenaios of non-cooperation. -½Specific documents were not made available,-+ he said. The report said Irenaios -½focused on financial demands faced by the Patriarchate... giving the impression that he did not desire an extensive discussion of long-term leases of Patriarchate land in the Old City of Jerusalem.-+

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100003_31/03/2005_54638

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENTARIES
 
Patriarch Irenaios must step down

If the Greek Church is mired in multiple corruption scandals that have injured its standing and moral status, the parallel crisis that has hit the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem has more dangerous implications. In fact, the scuffle could cause irreparable damage.

The open involvement of Israel, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority have lent the ongoing crisis a clearly political dimension. At stake is the very Greek Orthodox identity of the Patriarchate.

It should be remembered that the Patriarchate controls vast property in Jerusalem, including large areas inside the Old City. It also holds a prominent position in homage paid to the major Christian pilgrimage site. Caught between the conflicting objectives of the official Israeli state and the relatively small Arab flock, the Patriarchate has always had to be quite flexible in order to survive.

The problem is it went too far. It is the very actions and omissions of senior clerics that now threaten the centuries-long presence of the Greek Orthodox faction in Jerusalem.

As things presently stand — with near-daily allegations tarnishing the name of Greece — the government was left with no other option but to put pressure on the Jerusalem patriarch to step down. That was indeed the bent of Greece’s Foreign Ministry official who yesterday called on “Patriarch Irenaios to realize the gravity of the situation... and assume his historic responsibility.”

Things have been rather obvious for some time, yet Athens chose to exhaust all other alternatives before calling on Irenaios I to quit. It did so, first, because it did not want to meddle in the internal affairs of the Patriarchate and, second, because it knows that such changes always entail consequences.

But, in light of the burgeoning crisis, there is no other solution. The Greek government ought to push for a solution that would ease the pressure and restore order.

Kathimerini has so far avoided any sentimentalist approach to the crisis. But we now feel the need to add our voice to critics who say Irenaios should quit to ease the pressure on the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_columns_100026_31/03/2005_54632



 

[Αριστοκλής]

Kathimerini...what do you expect?

[TomS]

Erinaios Declares He Holds Office for Life 31 Mar 2005 09:21:00 (Last updated: 31 Mar 2005 12:23:28)
 
By Athina Saloustrou

The Patriarch of Jerusalem Eirinaios appears determined to remain in office, in a letter that was made public earlier today. The Patriarch declared that he holds his office for life, thus reacting to yesterday’s findings by Greek Foreign Ministry experts, as well as the Greek Government’s interventions, which basically pointed to the door. The report probed into allegations concerning sales and long leases of Patrairchate real estate in Jerusalem to Israelis. Eirinaios contented with apologizing to his congregation and the nation for omissions that may have been made unbeknown to him, while he sent a clear message to the Greek Government, telling them not to intervene in the internal affairs and operation of the Patriarchate.
 
Ultimatums from Jordan and Palestine

However, he makes no mention in his letter of the Jordanian Government or their 72- hour ultimatum, demanding that he provides explanations in writing. He also did not mention the Palestinian Authority, or the letter by their PM Ahmed Qorie, who asked for explanations within 48 hours.

Furthermore, ten Hierarchs, six of whom are members of the Holy Synod, also demanded his resignation.
 
Eirinaios' Statement

Patriarch Eirinaios’ statement, in answering to what has been publicized lately regarding the Patriarchate, mentioned:

"On the occasion of the harshly critical recent articles in the Press about the current situation in the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate, following the confusion that arose concerning the matter of the so-called sale of Patriarchate real estate in the Old City (a fact that has never been confirmed) as per the report of the team of Foreign Ministry experts who visited the Holy Land, after being invited by His Beatitude Patriarch Eirinaios, His Beatitude issued the following statement:

’We are pleased to realize that the Foreign Ministry spokesperson, on behalf of the Greek Government, acknowledged that its initial concern is to protect the institution of the Patriarchate and preserve its moral prestige, while he declared that it practices what is required by its historical duty, that is "to support the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem." The fixed position of the Greek State should be not to intervene in the internal affairs or the operation of the Patriarchate. The Greek Government has to remain a bastion of Orthodoxy and Hellenism. As a lifetime Leader of the Holy Sepulcher Brotherhood, and responding to by debt towards the institutions of the Patriarchate, my Congregation and the Nation, I apologize for any omissions that may have been made unbeknown to me or due to my trustworthiness. Keeping the Greek flag in the Holy Land, preserving the status quo and restoring the peace in my Congregation are of vital importance. I have been fighting for those ideals for the 50 years I have been in the Holy Sepulcher Brotherhood and I declare that I will continue to fight with all my strength for the Holy Sepurcher and to support my spiritual children-members of the Holy Sepulcher Brotherhood and the faithful of the Sion, Mother of all Churches.’"


http://news.ert.gr/en/newsDetails.asp?id=6623
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eirinaios in Dire Straits 30 Mar 2005 10:42:00  
 
By Athina Saloustrou

The Greek Foreign Ministry calls on Jerusalem Patriarch to take up his historic responsibilities. Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Giorgos Koumoutsakis publicized the specialists verdict concerning the management of Jerusalem Patriarchate real estate which confirms the difficulty of recording data and the attempted obstruction by the accused parties, involved in accusations of the transfer of Patriarchate real estate to Israeli companies is stated in the verdict. Until now there has been no reaction from the Patriarchate. However, there were reactions from the Palestinian Authority and a three-member delegation is traveling to the Patriarchate in order to hand over to Erinaios an ultimatum.

Responsibilities for not Submitting Evidence

The letter-ultimatum of the Palestinian Authority reads that the Patriarch will have to provide explanations to the Palestinian Authority that he hasn't sold any property. The Patriarch is in fact called to submit all related evidence within a period of 48 hours.
 
In the meantime, the Holy Synod is holding an extraordinary meeting in Jerusalem today, as more than 10 Hierarchs have drawn up a letter, asking for Erinaios' resignation.
 
The Foreign Ministry, according to its spokesperson Giorgos Koumoutsakos, calls on Jerusalem Patriarch Eirinaios to think of the seriousness of the situation, to rise up to circumstances and to take up its historic responsibilities. As it was announced today after the decision of Foreign Minister, Petros Moliviatis, a team of specialists arrived in Jerusalem on March 21-25, in order to investigate the case of long-term real estate rentals in the old town of Jerusalem and economic management matters of the Patriarchate. This was not made possible, as specific evidence was not given by the Patriarchate.

"The Greek government only wants to guard the institution of the Patriarchate, according to the status quo and the assurance of moral prestige as a vital importance sign for the fulfillment of its missions, which is above figures and personal ambitions. The above constitutes the only criteria and principles of the Greek state that will act and enforce its historic duty. It is obvious that the picture depicted by the Patriarchate is not correct and does not reinforce its prestige."

According to the verdict the specialists state that as far as the main subject of their mission is concerned they observed that only some documents were given to them by the Patriarchate, which did not help their mission.

According to the verdict’s conclusions, in the discussions between the specialists and the Patriarch, Eirinaios focused his interest in existing economic demands against the Patriarchate in a way, that seemed that he did not desire a lengthy discussion upon the seriousness of the matter.

The specialists state that it was not possilbe to acquire safe and well-documented evidence that will make the investigation of the team easier, as no copies of the letters of attorney existed in the Patriarchate’s files.

In a journalist’s question of if the government calls on the Patriarch to resign he answered "the position of the government is strict as is the non-intervention in the internal and functions of the Patriarchate, but this position should not be translated as support to figures and behaviors that do not support the Patriarchate’s prestige. The government will not indicate to Mr Eirinaios in which way he has to respond to his duty to the Patriarchate’s institution, his followers and the country."
 
"Negative Surprise"

Head Secretary of Holy Synod of the Jerusalem Patriarchate, Archbishop Konstantinis Aristarchos is expected to arrive in Amman today, in order to brief the Jordanian Interior Minister over recent articles in the Press.

Tomorrow, the Jordanian government ultimatum ends, which calls on Patriarch Eirinaios to give written explanations if sale or long-term rentals and changes in the Patriarchate’s real estate have taken place.

Minister of State, Thodoris Rousopoulos spoke of a negative surprise, while making clear that the Patriarchate’s Hellenism is ought to be protected. From her side, Minister of Education, Marietta Giannakou stated that the Greek state has supported and will support the Patriarchate as an institution.

http://news.ert.gr/en/newsDetails.asp?ID=6589


 

[TomS]

Kathimerini...what do you expect?

The Truth is the Truth.

I am ashamed to be attached to the Greek Church. The corruption of these people is incredible.

[Αριστοκλής]

The Truth is the Truth.

I am ashamed to be attached to the Greek Church. The corruption of these people is incredible.

Then PLEASE leave! I am sure that the Orthodox Church of Anywhere-else would love to have you.

[TomS]

Then PLEASE leave! I am sure that the Orthodox Church of Anywhere-else would love to have you.

I can't help SAVE the Church from these buffons if I leave.

[GiC]

The simple fact that a non-Christian state ordered re-elections of the patriarch is more than reason enough NOT to hold them; if there is a problem, let the patriarchal synod deal with it, for it is no one else's business.

[TomS]

Embattled Irenaios vows freeze on property deals

AMMAN (AP) - Under intense pressure from Jordan as well as his Palestinian congregation, the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Jerusalem pledged yesterday not to sell any Church land in Israel, and denied any such sale had taken place.

Israel’s Maariv newspaper reported this month that the Patriarchate had secretly sold to Jewish settlers property in east Jerusalem, a traditionally Arab quarter the Palestinians hope to turn into the capital of their independent state.

The report upset Palestinians as well as the Jordanian government, which regards itself as custodian of the holy sites in east Jerusalem. Jordan said such a sale could prejudice future negotiations between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

[Greece has also signified that it would like Irenaios to stand down.]

After meeting Patriarch Irenaios in Amman yesterday, Jordanian Interior Minister Samir Habashneh told reporters the Orthodox leader had signed an affidavit in which he pledged to “refrain from any action that would result in authorizing the sale of Church property in Jerusalem or elsewhere in the Palestinian territories and Israel.”

“The patriarch promised to cancel all powers of attorney which had been given out to act on assets and properties of the church,” Habashneh told reporters. He said Irenaios also vowed to provide Jordan with copies of the revoked powers of attorney within 48 hours.

The patriarch denied any sale or lease to Israelis of Church land in east Jerusalem, but promised to “abolish” any “unauthorized deals.”

-------------------

Jordan’s Interior Minister, Samir Habashneh (l), confers with the embattled Irenaios, Patriarch of Jerusalem, in Amman yesterday over explosive allegations that the Patriarchate has sold Church land in the holy city’s Arab sector to Jewish settlers. The claims have prompted widespread calls for Irenaios to resign.

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