Author Topic: The Diptychs and the Coptic Liturgies  (Read 2946 times)

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Offline SamB

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The Diptychs and the Coptic Liturgies
« on: April 19, 2003, 03:23:01 AM »
I was listening to a Qud'das celebrated by Pope Shnouda III.

When the names from the diptyches were recited, I noted prayers for the Patriarchs of Ethiopia and Antioch, but not for the Catholicos-Patriarch of Armenia.

Would someone explain the omission?

I hope our Coptic members are still here to answer the following:

Today, the principal liturgies used are those of Sts. Basil, Gregory Nazianzus, and Cyril, and I am familiar with the order in which they are celebrated during the liturgical year.  I understand these to all be derived from the ancient Liturgy of St. Mark.  But is it true that the Liturgy of St. Mark is no longer in use, and its celebration is no longer perpetuated in the Coptic Church?  If it is still retained, when is it celebrated?  Also, it was suggested to me that a Liturgy of Dionysius also exists in the Church.  A small note on its origins and when it is celebrated would be appreciated.

A question on the Ethiopian canon, as well: Included in the New Testament canon are the Sinodos and the Metsehafa Kidan Ze’egzi’ne Yesus Krestos, or Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ.  I ask Aklie to elaborate on the contents and themes of these scriptural books.  Are there any others that exist in the New Testament that aren't common to the canons of Scripture of all of the Churches?

And to make a final comment: impressive list of anaphorae you Ethiopians have.


Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re:The Diptychs and the Coptic Liturgies
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2003, 05:16:39 PM »
Would someone explain the omission?

Dear Samer,

I will let others answer most of the questions you ask, but I presume the commemorations during the Liturgy are based on custom.  For example, the Copts commemorate the Ethiopian and Syrian patriarchs, but not the Armenians or Indians.  The Syrians commemorate the Copts, but not anyone else (that I know of).  The Indians commemorate the Syrians and the Indians, but no one else...on and on.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re:The Diptychs and the Coptic Liturgies
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2003, 04:35:27 PM »

I think that the Patriarchs mentioned in our liturgy are those of Eritrea and Antioch.  That is what is printed in our liturgy books, and also what I hear at the Makar on Sunday.  I used to attend an Ethiopian Church, and I don't recall them mentioning Baba Shenouda either.  I think Mor is right, its probably just tradition.  I know it would be time consuming, but I'd like to hear all the Oriental Orthodox Patriarchs mentioned by name.  I guess they're all covered under "...and all our Orthodox bishops."
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Offline Fortunatus

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Re:The Diptychs and the Coptic Liturgies
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2003, 05:18:25 PM »
+PiKhristos af tonf! Khristos anesti! Al Maseeh qam! Christ is risen!+

Peace and grace.

Nofri ya sayed Samer,

The Liturgy of St. Mark is still in use, but is known as the Liturgy of St. Cyril. St. Cyril's is wholly the Liturgy of St. Mark, translated into Coptic, and with some additional prayers. St. Cyril's is traditionally prayed during Lent and also on the feasts of St. Mark the Evangelist and Martyr, and St. Cyril the Pillar of the Faith.  Some traditions say that it should be prayed for all of Kiahk as well (traditionally the month in which we venerate St. Mary during the fast of Advent), since it was St. Cyril who most ardently defended the Theotokos.

That Liturgy is unique from the rest, it is very penitent, but it has also a different structure. The Anaphora comes after all the Litanies! This was done so that the catechumens could get the most they possible could out of the Liturgy before they were kicked out! :) I've never heard of the Liturgy of St. Dionysius being extant, let alone used - though I heard of the Liturgy of St. John the Beloved being used in our churches a couple of time. That Liturgy used to be in the Coptic rite, but died out and was continued in the Ethiopian Orthodox church.

Pray for me!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2003, 05:29:41 PM by Fortunatus »
Amen, maranatha!
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Offline Thomas Daniel (Reji)

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Re:The Diptychs and the Coptic Liturgies
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2003, 09:38:25 AM »
After the efforts of St. Severus, St. Philoxenos of Mabbug etc, the See of Antioch was vacant for few years. With the help of St.Jacob Baradaeus, who received ordination from Alexandria, several bishops were ordained for OO faith. A new Patriarch was elevated in Antioch and a new Catholicos in the Church of the East, both by St. Jacob Baradaues, who was ordained a "Universal" (Catholicos) bishop for entire Asia by Patriarch Theodosios of Alexandria, to carry out the mission.

May be this is the reason of reciting Name of Patriarch of Antioch in the Coptic diptyches. As I am working in a place were Holy Gospel is prohibited, I do not have much reference books, but I will pass this query and try to get accurate reason for this from our scholars.
Oh.. Morth Mariam Yoldath Aloho (Mother Of God)Pray For Us