OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 23, 2014, 08:35:34 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Diptychs and the Coptic Liturgies  (Read 2482 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
SamB
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 784

Crates of araq for sale! *hic*


« on: April 19, 2003, 03:23:01 AM »

I was listening to a Qud'das celebrated by Pope Shnouda III.

When the names from the diptyches were recited, I noted prayers for the Patriarchs of Ethiopia and Antioch, but not for the Catholicos-Patriarch of Armenia.

Would someone explain the omission?

I hope our Coptic members are still here to answer the following:

Today, the principal liturgies used are those of Sts. Basil, Gregory Nazianzus, and Cyril, and I am familiar with the order in which they are celebrated during the liturgical year.  I understand these to all be derived from the ancient Liturgy of St. Mark.  But is it true that the Liturgy of St. Mark is no longer in use, and its celebration is no longer perpetuated in the Coptic Church?  If it is still retained, when is it celebrated?  Also, it was suggested to me that a Liturgy of Dionysius also exists in the Church.  A small note on its origins and when it is celebrated would be appreciated.

A question on the Ethiopian canon, as well: Included in the New Testament canon are the Sinodos and the Metsehafa Kidan Ze’egzi’ne Yesus Krestos, or Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ.  I ask Aklie to elaborate on the contents and themes of these scriptural books.  Are there any others that exist in the New Testament that aren't common to the canons of Scripture of all of the Churches?

And to make a final comment: impressive list of anaphorae you Ethiopians have.

In IC XC
Samer
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,311


"Do not be afraid, Zechariah..."


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2003, 05:16:39 PM »

Would someone explain the omission?


Dear Samer,

I will let others answer most of the questions you ask, but I presume the commemorations during the Liturgy are based on custom.  For example, the Copts commemorate the Ethiopian and Syrian patriarchs, but not the Armenians or Indians.  The Syrians commemorate the Copts, but not anyone else (that I know of).  The Indians commemorate the Syrians and the Indians, but no one else...on and on.
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Antonious Nikolas
Orthodox Christian, Miaphysite, Anagnostis
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 2,354


Saint Nicholas the Wonderworker, Bishop of Myra


WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2003, 04:35:27 PM »

Sam,

I think that the Patriarchs mentioned in our liturgy are those of Eritrea and Antioch.  That is what is printed in our liturgy books, and also what I hear at the Makar on Sunday.  I used to attend an Ethiopian Church, and I don't recall them mentioning Baba Shenouda either.  I think Mor is right, its probably just tradition.  I know it would be time consuming, but I'd like to hear all the Oriental Orthodox Patriarchs mentioned by name.  I guess they're all covered under "...and all our Orthodox bishops."
Logged

My sins run out behind me and I do not see them, but today I am coming to judge the errors of another.
Fortunatus
Son of Antony
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 84


'If thou wilt be perfect...'


WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2003, 05:18:25 PM »

+PiKhristos af tonf! Khristos anesti! Al Maseeh qam! Christ is risen!+

Peace and grace.

Nofri ya sayed Samer,

The Liturgy of St. Mark is still in use, but is known as the Liturgy of St. Cyril. St. Cyril's is wholly the Liturgy of St. Mark, translated into Coptic, and with some additional prayers. St. Cyril's is traditionally prayed during Lent and also on the feasts of St. Mark the Evangelist and Martyr, and St. Cyril the Pillar of the Faith.  Some traditions say that it should be prayed for all of Kiahk as well (traditionally the month in which we venerate St. Mary during the fast of Advent), since it was St. Cyril who most ardently defended the Theotokos.

That Liturgy is unique from the rest, it is very penitent, but it has also a different structure. The Anaphora comes after all the Litanies! This was done so that the catechumens could get the most they possible could out of the Liturgy before they were kicked out! Smiley I've never heard of the Liturgy of St. Dionysius being extant, let alone used - though I heard of the Liturgy of St. John the Beloved being used in our churches a couple of time. That Liturgy used to be in the Coptic rite, but died out and was continued in the Ethiopian Orthodox church.

Pray for me!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2003, 05:29:41 PM by Fortunatus » Logged

Agape,
         Fortunatus
Amen, maranatha!
"A man's life or death cometh from his neighbour; if we benefit our brother we benefit ourselves, and if we offend him we sin against God." - The Great Abba Antony
Thomas Daniel (Reji)
Chevalier
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Malankara Archdiocese of Syriac Orthodox Church
Posts: 308


Proud to say belongs to Syriac Orthodox Church


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2003, 09:38:25 AM »

After the efforts of St. Severus, St. Philoxenos of Mabbug etc, the See of Antioch was vacant for few years. With the help of St.Jacob Baradaeus, who received ordination from Alexandria, several bishops were ordained for OO faith. A new Patriarch was elevated in Antioch and a new Catholicos in the Church of the East, both by St. Jacob Baradaues, who was ordained a "Universal" (Catholicos) bishop for entire Asia by Patriarch Theodosios of Alexandria, to carry out the mission.

May be this is the reason of reciting Name of Patriarch of Antioch in the Coptic diptyches. As I am working in a place were Holy Gospel is prohibited, I do not have much reference books, but I will pass this query and try to get accurate reason for this from our scholars.
Logged

Oh.. Morth Mariam Yoldath Aloho (Mother Of God)Pray For Us
Tags: Coptic Orthodox Church 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.044 seconds with 31 queries.