Oriental Orthodox Music

[EkhristosAnesti]

Salpy also sent me the lyrics to this hymn, but I will have to dig them up and type them out later as I am rushed for time this morning.

[alexp4uni]

Salpy where can I order Varoujan Makarian? I searched Amazon and nothing turned up.

[Salpy]

Salpy where can I order Varoujan Makarian? I searched Amazon and nothing turned up.

Here is something by him:

http://www.liturgica.com/cart/musicInfo.jsp?catNo=AK015

[Salpy]

Thank you, EA, for posting the Epiphany hymn.   

[EkhristosAnesti]

Courtesy of Salpy: A majestic Armenian Orthodox Hymn chanted during the Blessing of the Waters on Holy Feast of the Epiphany: http://www.esnips.com/doc/00c7142b-82f8-4587-81d2-e32df4906cfc/Ov-Zarmaneli-(O-Wondrous)

This file is Track 11 of the Armenian Christmas Hymns CD which can be purchased at the following link: http://www.stvartanbookstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4731

From the same album:

Looys Ee Loosoh ("Light from Light"):

http://www.esnips.com/doc/8da18b21-b4f3-4771-8d21-b315209855d3/Looys-Ee-Loosoh

Again, courtesy of Salpy. Thanks Salps!

[EkhristosAnesti]

Segment of the Armenian Orthodox Liturgy by the Youth Choir of St Mary's Armenian Orthodox parish in Toronto:

http://www.esnips.com/doc/7a28285e-8080-48fc-a9ca-542878d08e08/Badarak---Toronto-youth-choir-of-St-Marys-Armenian-Orthodox-church

Salpy, do you know how one might be able to purchase any of their CD's? I went to the parish website and they weren't advertising anything; a google search failed to yield any relevant results either.

[Salpy]

I looked at a few websites and I couldn't find any CD's from this group.  The only thing I can think of is to contact the Canadian Diocese and ask if this group has any CD's and if they carry it.  I think they have a bookstore, but that part of their website is not up.

http://www.armenianchurch.ca/contact.php


If they don't have it, ask who would.  Also, you may want to just e-mail the parish that produced the music and see if they can help you.

The part of the liturgy recorded is a part that is right after the intercessions.  It is relatively new.  I think it began to be sung a couple of hundred years ago in Istanbul and it caught on everywhere else.  At least that is what I heard.  It is prayers for mercy.  You hear "Der Voghormia," and that means "Lord have mercy."  Some of the lines in English:

Again in peace let us beseech the Lord.

Lord, have mercy.

By all the saints whom we have commemorated, let us moreover beseech the Lord.

Lord, have mercy.

By the holy, divine and immortal sacrifice offered on this holy altar, let us beseech the Lord.

Lord, have mercy.

That the Lord our God, who has accepted the same at his holy, heavenly and itelligible altar, may in return send down upon us the grace and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, let us beseech the Lord.

Lord, have mercy.

Receive, save and have mercy and keep us, O Lord, by your grace.

Save us, O Lord, and have mercy on us.

Commemorating the all-holy Mother of God and ever virgin Mary together with all the saints, let us beseech the Lord.

Be merciful, Lord, and have mercy.



It is sung between the deacons and choir.  The "Lord have mercy" parts are by the choir, I think sung here by the kids.



Shortly after this, the Lord's Prayer is sung.

[_Seraphim_]

Segment of the Armenian Orthodox Liturgy by the Youth Choir of St Mary's Armenian Orthodox parish in Toronto:

EkhristosAnesti, I continually appreciate your sharing OO chant with the forum via the eSnips website.  However, about a month ago, eSnips quit letting me download the songs you post.  Even when I signed in to the site, the download button still was not displayed.

I think I just figured out what happened.  eSnips made a change in their audio policy.  Whoever uploads audio files now has the option of making them down-loadable or not.  By default, the files are not down-loadable, so you have to manually select the download option for every audio file you upload. 

Here is a link to the eSnips audio policy page:
http://esnippers.typepad.com/esnippers_den/2007/12/the-download-bu.html

Whenever you have time, it would be greatly appreciated if you could go back and make all your recent audio posts available for public download.
Thank you so much for all your contribution to this forum.  God bless

[HaileAmanuel]

Dear Seraphim (and others who may be interested),

I am sorry that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church music is so difficult to find [outside of the actual Church].  At this moment, I cannot recall the brother's name, but there were some websites that he posted:

www.tewahedo.org & www.ethiopianorthodox.org

1st: You may go to, www.tewahedo.org, then go to the right of the screen, I think the eighth link down says, 'wedasie mariam andemta'--it means, 'The Interpretation of the Praise of St. Mary'. 

This prayer is a Monday-Sunday prayer that St. Ephraim the Syrian composed, and tradition says that he met St. Yared the Ethiopian in Egypt and transferred this prayer to him.  The history of 'how' the prayer was composed by St. Ephraim is a little lengthy.  Anyway, in the Ethiopian/Eritrean Orthodox Tewahido Church, this prayer is spoken and sung.  It's unbelievable and it's long when sung or chanted.

2nd: When you click that link, it will take you to a page that you will see St. Mary and Her Beloved Son on the left.  In the center of the page you will see the links for RealPlayer/WindowsMedia/PDF listed.  Above is the Amharic, which says, 'Wedasie Mariam Andemta' and on the other side it says, misbak, which means 'The Psalm', but it refers to the 'chanted' Psalm of David, usually for the Divine Liturgical Service or Se'atat.  In Ethiopia, the Psalms of David are also called mezmur, like the Coptic.

3rd: In the first link, which is on the top-left of the list, you can hear a very brief example of St. Yared's a-qwa-qwa-m.  In this a-qwa-qwa-m, you will hear the chanter singing about the Seraphim and the Sanctus [or Q-dus, Q-dus, Q-dus I-g-zee-a-b-hay-r Tsa-ba-o-t F-tsu-m...].

4th: On the opposite side, you can click on the list from top-to-bottom and hear the chanter, chanting the Psalm or misbak for the occasion.  On this occasion, the teacher is teaching about the Interpretation of the [prayer] Praises of Mary.  It takes place during the Fast of the Virgin [August], that is why there are 16 links. 

For the other link: www.ethiopianorthodox.org

1st: Click on ENGLISH, once you enter the site. 

2nd: Click below [under the link that says, English] on CHURCH MUSIC

3rd: Once you click on CHURCH MUSIC, there should be a page written mostly in Amharic, but will say Church Music in BOLD letters. 

4th: Underneath, there is a grid with Ge'ez/Amharic on the left and English on the right. 

5th: You may listen to what you like, of course, but the links for the ETHIOPIAN LITURGY, ST. YARED'S HYMNS and the WEDASIE MARIAM, I know that they work and are typically clear.  Please try them anyway. 

*If you click on St. Yared's Hymns, this is ma-ha-lay-t or chant, it is expressed through a-qwa-qwa-m for the specific holyday. A-qwa-qwa-m means 'to stand.' During this time of praise, those who studied this type of St. Yared's hymnology stand for a very long time chanting with the use of three instruments: Tsi-na-tsi-l [sistrum], ke-be-ro [drum] and me-qwa-mee-ya [prayer stick, just like the ones that the Sanhedrin & high-priests had on Passion of Christ].

From top to bottom, the links start with: (1) St. John (2) St. Michael (3) Birth of Christ (4) Baptism of Christ (5) Resurrection of Christ (6) Genbot Lideta-The Major Commermoration of St. Mary's Birth (7) Hedar Mikael-Commemoration of St. Michael in Hedar/Hator

I hope that this helped a little and I hope that you will be able to enjoy it.

Take care and peace to all,

HaileAmanuel

[_Seraphim_]

HaileAmanuel...
thank you SO MUCH for sharing those links!   

It is such a marvelous blessing to hear some Ethiopian chant in English (although, of course, it sounds most natural in Ethiopian).
May God bless you

[HaileAmanuel]

Seraphim,

You are very welcomed.  Please take care and God be with you...

Sincerely,

HaileAmanuel

[Orthodox11]

It is such a marvelous blessing to hear some Ethiopian chant in English

I find it interesting that while the Ethiopian chanting is so radically different, the entoned reading is done in almost exactly the same way as in the EO churches, as opposed to the entoned reading of the Coptic or Syriac churches, which is very different.

[Salpy]

I split off a post asking for translations of Ethiopian Timkat hymns:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,14782.0.html

[HaileAmanuel]

Dear Orthodox11,

How are you?  I think that you may be referring to the Lections/Liturgy readings in English on the EthiopianOrthodox.org site?

This is not the typical tone of how the lections are read.  Now, if you hear the Amharic Lection readings, it will sound somewhat like the Ge'ez--which again, is a very different style and tone from all others that I have heard in various Churches.

Take care and if I find anything else, I will share it with the forum.

Sincerely,

HaileAmanuel

[falafel333]

Just out of interest I was wondering if anyone could contribute any liturgical audio from the Assyrian Church of the East.

Thanks

[_Seraphim_]

Just out of interest I was wondering if anyone could contribute any liturgical audio from the Assyrian Church of the East.

Thanks

Um... I was under the impression that the "Assyrian Church of the East" is not in communion with either OO or EO.
Am I correct?

[Orthodox11]

Dear Orthodox11,

How are you?  I think that you may be referring to the Lections/Liturgy readings in English on the EthiopianOrthodox.org site?

This is not the typical tone of how the lections are read.  Now, if you hear the Amharic Lection readings, it will sound somewhat like the Ge'ez--which again, is a very different style and tone from all others that I have heard in various Churches.

I heard entoned-reading (not sure what the best term is) in both English and Amharic when i visited an Ethiopian church recently, and the style was almost exactly the same as what I hear when things like the Psalter are read at the EO monastery here.

[minasoliman]

Um... I was under the impression that the "Assyrian Church of the East" is not in communion with either OO or EO.
Am I correct?

Yes, that is true.  I think it might be more fit if another thread can be created for that purpose, i.e. finding the hymns of the Assyrian Church.

God bless.

[HaileAmanuel]

I heard entoned-reading (not sure what the best term is) in both English and Amharic when i visited an Ethiopian church recently, and the style was almost exactly the same as what I hear when things like the Psalter are read at the EO monastery here.

[Sorry, I'm still ignorant concerning replies]

Peace Orthodox 11,

I will try to find the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church liturgy online with the traditional style of how lections are read. 

Take care,

HaileAmanuel

[_Seraphim_]

I came across a beautiful video on YouTube of an Armenian Liturgy.  The sound quality of the recording is very rough, but if you can listen through the pops, hiss, and low volume you are surely in for a blessed treat!

0:20-2:00 is my favorite part. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdnTiWT90rc

It is very interesting to hear the organ in an Orthodox service.  For Americans, the sound of an organ is almost always considered synonymous with Roman Catholicism.  However, in this video I didn’t even notice the organ sound at first… it blended so seamlessly with the chant.  It is nice to have a further understanding that certain “characteristics” of Rome (such as the use of organs during services) are not inherently wrong just because Rome practices them; rather, the real issue is of course the theological context in which Rome operates.

Anyway, I don’t want to get too far off on that tangent.  I just wanted to share this gem of a video!  God bless.

[Salpy]

Beautiful Syriac Orthodox chant:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aME-GwLOya4

[Orthodox11]

It is very interesting to hear the organ in an Orthodox service. For Americans, the sound of an organ is almost always considered synonymous with Roman Catholicism.  However, in this video I didn’t even notice the organ sound at first… it blended so seamlessly with the chant.  It is nice to have a further understanding that certain “characteristics” of Rome (such as the use of organs during services) are not inherently wrong just because Rome practices them; rather, the real issue is of course the theological context in which Rome operates.

You will also find certain EO parishes, particularly in America, where the organ is used during services. However, this is of course a recent innovation and goes against the traditional position of the Church - rooted in the opinions of Fathers such as St. John Chrysostom - that discourages the use of musical instruments in churches.

In the Syrian Orthodox Church too, use of the organ is commonplace. But, again, this was a departure from the traditional teaching of that Church:

Traditionally, the use of musical instruments is avoided in liturgical services. In 1930, at the Synod presided by late Patriarch Elias III at Dayro d-Mor Mattay, the use of an organ was permitted. Today the use of musical instruments is becoming increasingly prevalent in Syriac Orthodox Churches, particularly in the services of the divine liturgy, weddings, etc. While the nominal use of an instrument enhances the spiritual experience, excessive use detracts from it, especially when it discourages the participation of the congregation. Along with the use of musical instruments, innovations on traditional Syriac melodies for hymns, especially in the divine liturgy, are now increasingly common, often influenced by the secular music of the larger society in which the Syriac Orthodox communities reside. While some of these innovations enhance the musical heritage of the Church, and provide a contemporary flavor to the ancient liturgies, departures from the Syriac musical genre and frequent innovations affects participation of the entire congregation in liturgical music and detracts from the sanctity and purpose of liturgical music.

Source

Likewise, in the Coptic and Ethiopic traditions, percussion (cymbals, triangles, drums, etc.) is permitted, but melodic instruments are not.


I would be interested in knowing how/why/when the organ was introduced into the Armenian Church and whether the use of other instrumentation was common, or even acceptable, prior to its introduction. Salpy?

[Andrew21091]

There is an organ in my church. It's really only there for the benifit of the choir to help them for certain notes.

[_Seraphim_]

in the Coptic and Ethiopic traditions, percussion (cymbals, triangles, drums, etc.) is permitted, but melodic instruments are not.

Well, I'm a little confused at this statement.  True, in all the Coptic videos I've seen the only instruments used were cymbals and triangles.  However, in most every Ethiopian video I’ve seen they not only use rhythmic instruments (drums, cymbals) but also melodic ones like flutes and stringed instruments. 

Also, I’ve noticed that in Ethiopian worship both the melodic instruments and the people are all singing the same note at any given time.  In other words: no actual harmony, just rhythmic melody.  This same principal also seems to apply to Coptic chant.

Some input from an Armenian, Copt, or Ethiopian would be very helpful at this point.

[_Seraphim_]

There is an organ in my church. It's really only there for the benifit of the choir to help them for certain notes.

In my opinion, as long as the human voice is the overwhelming, main driving force, then some instruments for vocal “support” are fine. 

This video is the Orthodox Liturgy in Seoul, Korea.  The choir uses an organ in the same manner Andrew just described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gx4liWFEyo

The organ is hard to even notice until about 1:00 when everyone stops singing so the deacon can proclaim: “Wisdom, let us attend!” 
Then at 1:15 you can distinctly hear an organ begin the song. 

(By the way, I was so glad to find this video.  It was one of the first exposures I ever had to Korean Orthodoxy.)

[Orthodox11]

However, in most every Ethiopian video I’ve seen they not only use rhythmic instruments (drums, cymbals) but also melodic ones like flutes and stringed instruments.

I'm prepared to stand corrected, but I do not believe (and have never seen) flutes or stringed instruments are used as part of the Ethiopian liturgy.

They are used in pretty much every religious song - mezmur - i've ever heard (like the ones on youtube), but I've yet to come accross them in a liturgical context, which is what I was refering to above.

[_Seraphim_]

I'm prepared to stand corrected, but I do not believe (and have never seen) flutes or stringed instruments are used as part of the Ethiopian liturgy.

They are used in pretty much every religious song - mezmur - i've ever heard (like the ones on youtube), but I've yet to come accross them in a liturgical context, which is what I was refering to above.

Ah, yes, now that I think about it, all the Ethiopian melodic instrument videos I saw were not in actual liturgical settings... although they were obviously very spiritual in nature.  I look forward to hearing someone clarify this issue.

[Salpy]

I would be interested in knowing how/why/when the organ was introduced into the Armenian Church and whether the use of other instrumentation was common, or even acceptable, prior to its introduction. Salpy?

I think the organ was officially approved for liturgical use during the 1920's.  What probably happened was after the Genocide when the survivors went into diaspora, they most likely saw the organs in their friends' Catholic and Protestant churches and wanted the same.  I don't know.  I'm not that wild about the organs.  They add to the "concert mentality" and sometimes drown out the choir.

The only other instruments I've seen are cymbals used by the Armenians from Istanbul during the Matins service.  We have deacons in our church from there and sometimes our priest lets them do their thing.  It's really quite awesome.  We're not talking the small cymbals used by the Copts.  We're talking the really big ones, like the ones used in orchestras. 

[Orthodox11]

I think the organ was officially approved for liturgical use during the 1920's.  What probably happened was after the Genocide when the survivors went into diaspora, they most likely saw the organs in their friends' Catholic and Protestant churches and wanted the same.  I don't know.  I'm not that wild about the organs.  They add to the "concert mentality" and sometimes drown out the choir.

The only other instruments I've seen are cymbals used by the Armenians from Istanbul during the Matins service.  We have deacons in our church from there and sometimes our priest lets them do their thing.  It's really quite awesome.  We're not talking the small cymbals used by the Copts.  We're talking the really big ones, like the ones used in orchestras. 

Thanks Salpy! You don't suppose there's a recording of the matins from Constantinople available somewhere online do you?

[Salpy]

I've never seen a recording of the matins service from anywhere, unfortunately.  If I come across it, I'll let you know.

[Salpy]

Thanks Salpy! You don't suppose there's a recording of the matins from Constantinople available somewhere online do you?

O.K.  I can't believe I found this on youtube.  I guess youtube has everything.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8E4tP7l9ae0

This is a recording of Park ee Partsoonts Asdoodzo done in Constantinople.  That hymn comes toward the end of the matins service.  It's a hymn which I think other Orthodox have also.  It starts off with "Glory to God in the Highest..."

Anyway, about a third of the way through you can hear them start with the cymbals.  Unfortunately, they don't show the deacon playing them.  You can hear them, though.  It really wakes you up when you are there early on a Sunday morning.   

[_Seraphim_]

O.K.  I can't believe I found this on youtube.  I guess youtube has everything.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8E4tP7l9ae0

Nice! Thanks for sharing. 

[Orthodox11]

You were right. It's really quite awesome. Thanks again!

[jmkora]

Try watching this to get a better feel for the Indian Liturgy:
http://www.youtube.com/v/xaooARLF4sw&rel=1
The celebrant is Rev.Fr.Aju Mathews. The consecration of the mysteries (from 1:28 to 3:19) is excellent.

Here are some hymns in Syriac, which is one of our liturgical languages. They are sung by Rev.Fr.M.P.George, who is the Principal of our School of Liturgical Music:
http://malankaraorthodoxchurch.in/images/zoom/BAIXHX/Itho_Itho.mp3
http://malankaraorthodoxchurch.in/images/zoom/BAIXHX/Oah_Umarudu.mp3

[Salpy]

That is so cool!  Thank you!

[stashko]

Most excellent thank you..i enjoyed the video's .....stasko/stanislav

[_Seraphim_]

Try watching this to get a better feel for the Indian Liturgy...
Here are some hymns in Syriac...

Thank you so much for sharing the Indian video and chants!  It is so nice to hear the Indian Liturgy in English.

[Salpy]

Another Indian Orthodox video, I think related to the one posted earlier by jmkora.  The hymn in this one is so beautifully sung!  I think it's the Trisagion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3f50nNbDpY

[Orthodox11]

and me-qwa-mee-ya [prayer stick, just like the ones that the Sanhedrin & high-priests had on Passion of Christ].[/i]

What is the purpose of the prayer stick, besides just making standing easier? Does it have a practical or symbolic function? And is it reserved for clergy, or can any layman use one?

[Andrew21091]

I love Ethiopian music. Here are a few of my finds on Youtube. All are sung by Yilma Hailu. He has a great voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOgHuYRxKJs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aQGNeMoMIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZgry2ajik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuC8nsT0seo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ruA96Fj0Rg

[Rosehip]

I love Ethiopian music too. Here's one of my favourites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSUJffsRLA

The singing has such an ethereal quality to it. Can anyone tell me what it means when they hold their hands, palm upwards, as they sing?

[Salpy]

Here are some Palm Sunday processional hymns and chants by our Malankara Syrian Orthodox brothers.  I love how they have kids throwing the palm fronds in the air.  It must have been fun.   

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-8D-ruysWvc&feature=related

[_Seraphim_]

Here are some Palm Sunday processional hymns and chants by our Malankara Syrian Orthodox brothers.  I love how they have kids throwing the palm fronds in the air.  It must have been fun.   

Thanks, Salpy, that was beautiful.

[_Seraphim_]

I found some very precious videos of Eritrean Orthodox children singing mezmurs:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAG_9JSGfIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nVHH1-IBEs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVOUxSUx8TI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D6SWhJulDg&feature=related

 

[Salpy]

Those were beyond darling.  I especially liked the one where the kids had their own little prayer sticks.   

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