Author Topic: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House  (Read 1483 times)

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Offline NoahB

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Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« on: January 16, 2015, 06:51:21 PM »
My father is a Reformed Baptist, and very hardline. He doesn't even flinch when saying that God hates most people in the world. As far as total depravity is concerned, he is incredibly extreme as well (even using "foul" language to describe how totally depraved we are). He was ordained in the Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America, but left the denomination after getting frustrated with the people at his church. He calls the Pope the antichrist, believes the doctrine of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is "the most vile and satanic heresy straight out of the pit of hell," and anything besides four white walls and a sermon is anathema. I'm not exaggerating.

I first discovered Orthodoxy two years ago in an effort to win the affections of a young girl I knew, who was Orthodox. I study the theology off and one for the past two years, and right now have a good understanding. I do believe the Orthodox Church is the one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church, based solely on virtue of apostolic succession. Intellectual agreement with the theology came after acknowledging that Orthodoxy is the historical church. I've been reading the Church Fathers, and there is absolutely 0 question in my mind that Orthodoxy is not only the most historically valid, but also logical branch of Christianity in existence. I believe it so strongly, that I hesitate to even call non-Orthodox branches Christian at all. I've attended a liturgy at an OCA church (yay Russian tradition), and watched/listened to countless on the internet.

When my father first found out about this, he took it pretty well. He said "let's sit down and talk about it." By "sitting down and talking about it" he meant read my a paragraph about the Orthodox church from a Protestant encyclopedia and tell me that he'd take everything away from me if I pursued it any further. I took "we must obey God rather than men" to heart, though, and continued to research it. How do I deal with it? I can't stand being made to sit in his "church" every Sunday and prefer to be in the company of the Body of Christ, but I still live in his house.

PS. I am probably subconsciously exaggerating his position a lot. He's really a great guy. I'm just very bitter towards his intolerance of any diversity of theological opinion in his household. It's probably because the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.

Offline biro

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 06:53:31 PM »
Lord have mercy.

Welcome to the board.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline Agabus

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 07:13:53 PM »
...but I still live in his house.


For how long?
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline NoahB

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 08:03:41 PM »
Until I go to college in August.
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 08:25:41 PM »
I would recommend talking to a priest about it, but I can sympathize with you. My parents are convinced that I am an apostate and my wife is not at all happy with my decision. Obviously, it is a bit easier for me because I'm 35 so my parents can't tell me what to do, but you do have my sympathies. My only recommendations would be to continue to attend with your father until you go to college. Respect what he says, even if you don't agree and do you best to demonstrate the love of Christ to him.  Nothing validates someone's prejudices against your faith faster than if you make it into a point of contention. I unfortunately learned that the hard way. I wish I would not have tried to pressure my wife to accept my decision to go to Orthodoxy because it only ended up with her throwing it back in my face and telling me that it must be a terrible religion if it is tearing us apart. After I went to some counseling with my priest, I determined it would be best to just show her love in any way that I can and not discuss religion. It is difficult, because there is so much I want to share, but I know that if I did, she would just take it the wrong way.  I would approach your father in the same way.  Who knows? Maybe some day, his mind will change.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 08:26:21 PM by TheTrisagion »
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 08:43:03 PM »
I'm just very bitter towards his intolerance of any diversity of theological opinion in his household. It's probably because the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.
Sounds like you're bright. Keep the quoted in mind!
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2015, 08:45:32 PM »
I'll try to keep you in prayer, Noah. You need the comfort and direction of God at this time. May I ask how old you are?
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2015, 08:58:50 PM »
Behave to your father as you would behave to you if you would be your father. Love your father and understand that what he is doing is out of love.

When you have time you can pray for God to show him the truth of all denominations as God see them.

You can show him to read the writings of Apostles, the Liturgies written by Apostles or you can start with history of Church showing that up to 1500+ nobody heared about Sola Scriptura and one sermon and walls and that all Churches before that were Liturgical from the time of Apostles as Apostles wrote Liturgies. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,63011.0.html
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 09:03:47 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2015, 09:02:08 PM »
Nothing validates someone's prejudices against your faith faster than if you make it into a point of contention. I unfortunately learned that the hard way.

+1
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Offline NanaDeborah

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2015, 09:02:52 AM »
You are in a tough spot for sure.  I can identify to a certain extent. My husband is still stuck in his old non-denom church. I got a lot of flack from family and friends because I took the initiative to leave and find the Orthodox church on my own without him.  (He has finally, on his own, decided to visit my church tomorrow, after 4 months, so please pray for us!)

I can identify too with you, Trisagion, as I did the same thing to my spouse when I first got excited about my Protestant conversion many many years ago.  It took a long time to get over the hard feelings.  This time I am making sure I don't project a spiritually superior attitude. Nothing is more odious. Jesus told us to love our neighbor, who very often lives in our home!  They will know we are Christians by our love, not by our claims to be right (thus making everyone else wrong).

Adversity can be helpful to teach us humility. Use this opportunity to become more Christlike.  Love wins. I am sure your father feels very threatened. Don't let bitterness define you.

At some point in the future if he becomes a little more open to actual discussions of the issues, there is a great site called the Orthodox-Reformed Bridge, http://orthodoxbridge.com/  ***  BUT  *** if you go there you must still cultivate LOVE as a first priority and not allow yourself to start or be drawn into angry arguments that lead only to more division.  If you are going to suffer, suffer for doing good.
 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 09:03:27 AM by NanaDeborah »
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2015, 10:27:25 AM »
Your best trail to follow would be to love him, show it, and obey him while under his roof.
With that said, if HE brings up "the issue" (and he will because he loves his son) consider telling him, "Dad I am obeying you as best as any son can" and let it go.
When he brings it up again (because he knows August is coming and he loves you and has issues about you leaving), ask him to go to a Vespers Service. It is simply
worship (it is kind of important if he goes to a church that takes Communion weekly) and gently let him know that Vespers is simply worship with no end result no communion, homily, nada. Divine Liturgy is to much for a guy like him; trust me (as a father as old as dirt)
And then let it sit with him. You need say nothing but "OK, Dad, yes, Dad" etc.
That is my personal experience; yours may vary!
 
Also, if you can find this non-Orthodox book called LETTING GO by Karen Levin Coburn;  a very helpful guide for the everyone whose children are about to go to college.

http://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-Fifth-Edition-Understanding/dp/0061665738/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1421504537&sr=1-2

Noah, prayers will be said for you this day.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 10:28:10 AM by LenInSebastopol »
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2015, 06:54:48 PM »
may God guide you, this sounds tough.
nana deborah, those are wise words. all the best for tomorrow.

personally, i don't think that young people should be forced to go to church with their parents
(at least not after they are 15 or 16 years old). if he's not happy with you exploring the orthodox church,
then stay at home (reading the Bible and praying orthodox prayers), or go if you really have to,
and then find another time of the week to visit a church meeting if there is one available.
it could be that he would find it less offensive if you visit on a different day,
as long as you are there to socialise with him when he finishes church.

if you get to stay home, maybe you could cook dinner for him, or wash the car / do other chores when he is back
to show that you love and support him.
may God have mercy on you both and on any other family members.

Offline NoahB

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 09:14:58 AM »
I'll try to keep you in prayer, Noah. You need the comfort and direction of God at this time. May I ask how old you are?

Right now, I'm 17. 18 in May.

However, I just visited with my father. And was actually rather surprised at his openness to discuss religion. He had some interesting counterarguments to my disputes on sola scriptura, though I remain unconvinced. In God's providence, he was reading a lot of Anglicans lately, such as John Stott and NT Wright, and ended up making a compromise with me that I can attend a local Orthodox Anglican Church.

As far as I see it, some Church Tradition is better than none at all. I don't know if I should take Communion or not. I know if I attended an Orthodox Church regularly it would be like "cheating" on a spouse.

My unloving words about my father were totally uncalled for, now that I read them again.
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.

Offline Christina

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2015, 10:47:36 AM »
  When my father first found out about this, he took it pretty well. He said "let's sit down and talk about it." By "sitting down and talking about it" he meant read my a paragraph about the Orthodox church from a Protestant encyclopedia and tell me that he'd take everything away from me if I pursued it any further. I took "we must obey God rather than men" to heart, though, and continued to research it. How do I deal with it? I can't stand being made to sit in his "church" every Sunday and prefer to be in the company of the Body of Christ, but I still live in his house.

Unless you're prepared to be like the merchant who found one pearl of great price and sold all that he had to buy it, just bide your time until you're not dependent on him for anything.

  He had some interesting counterarguments to my disputes on sola scriptura, though I remain unconvinced.

If "the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice," how does he explain the existence of the Church for half a century before the first New Testament book was written?
"You cursed and lost man!  Instead of enduring pain for a single hour, you have made yourself worthy of eternal torment."  ~St. Christina of Ancyra~

Offline NoahB

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2015, 11:57:40 AM »
  When my father first found out about this, he took it pretty well. He said "let's sit down and talk about it." By "sitting down and talking about it" he meant read my a paragraph about the Orthodox church from a Protestant encyclopedia and tell me that he'd take everything away from me if I pursued it any further. I took "we must obey God rather than men" to heart, though, and continued to research it. How do I deal with it? I can't stand being made to sit in his "church" every Sunday and prefer to be in the company of the Body of Christ, but I still live in his house.

Unless you're prepared to be like the merchant who found one pearl of great price and sold all that he had to buy it, just bide your time until you're not dependent on him for anything.

  He had some interesting counterarguments to my disputes on sola scriptura, though I remain unconvinced.

If "the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice," how does he explain the existence of the Church for half a century before the first New Testament book was written?

Precisely. I just never heard some of the arguments for sola scriptura he made, before.
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2015, 04:43:54 PM »

If "the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice," how does he explain the existence of the Church for half a century before the first New Testament book was written?

For the dimly illumined, what does this question even mean?
Mark 14:36
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2015, 04:49:10 PM »
  When my father first found out about this, he took it pretty well. He said "let's sit down and talk about it." By "sitting down and talking about it" he meant read my a paragraph about the Orthodox church from a Protestant encyclopedia and tell me that he'd take everything away from me if I pursued it any further. I took "we must obey God rather than men" to heart, though, and continued to research it. How do I deal with it? I can't stand being made to sit in his "church" every Sunday and prefer to be in the company of the Body of Christ, but I still live in his house.

Unless you're prepared to be like the merchant who found one pearl of great price and sold all that he had to buy it, just bide your time until you're not dependent on him for anything.

  He had some interesting counterarguments to my disputes on sola scriptura, though I remain unconvinced.

If "the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice," how does he explain the existence of the Church for half a century before the first New Testament book was written?

Precisely. I just never heard some of the arguments for sola scriptura he made, before.
What arguments did he make?
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2015, 04:50:07 PM »

If "the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice," how does he explain the existence of the Church for half a century before the first New Testament book was written?

For the dimly illumined, what does this question even mean?
It means, how can you have something be the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice is it didn't exist? How could the first Christians consult it if it had not yet been written?
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2015, 09:16:11 AM »

If "the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice," how does he explain the existence of the Church for half a century before the first New Testament book was written?

For the dimly illumined, what does this question even mean?
It means, how can you have something be the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice is it didn't exist? How could the first Christians consult it if it had not yet been written?

One had the supreme authorities walking around, visiting & starting churches in homes and when they couldn't make it, wrote it down. At that time there was no need to have it written down when the guy standing there WAS the supreme authority. .
After Pentecost the three thousand returned to their lands and were visited by the supreme authorities however it grew larger/faster than the supreme authorities could travel, so.....it's in Acts!
As to Doctrine....., the 10' pole is still to short to touch that, suffice to say "it" was alive. Still is, but with much difficult practice.
Thanks, Trisagion,  though I understand the words,  he question still makes no sense to me.
Mark 14:36
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2015, 09:25:50 AM »
I'll try to keep you in prayer, Noah. You need the comfort and direction of God at this time. May I ask how old you are?

Right now, I'm 17. 18 in May.

However, I just visited with my father. And was actually rather surprised at his openness to discuss religion. He had some interesting counterarguments to my disputes on sola scriptura, though I remain unconvinced. In God's providence, he was reading a lot of Anglicans lately, such as John Stott and NT Wright, and ended up making a compromise with me that I can attend a local Orthodox Anglican Church.

As far as I see it, some Church Tradition is better than none at all.
I don't know if I should take Communion or not. I know if I attended an Orthodox Church regularly it would be like "cheating" on a spouse.

My unloving words about my father were totally uncalled for, now that I read them again.

All Christians have some Church Tradition, they all appropriated it from their forebearers, Rome and Byzantium.
Not everything I type or have typed in the past is reflective of the teaching of the Orthodox Church, or may not reflect my contemporary views on a subject. (4/6/2015)

Glory to Jesus Christ!

قدوس لله قدوس القوي قدوس الذي لا يموت ارحمنا

Offline CharalambisMakarios

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2015, 04:36:39 PM »
As another Protestant inquirer into Orthodoxy who is only a little bit older than you, Noah, I can empathize to a certain extent. My parents, thankfully, have been mostly supportive, but it's a difficult process and I'm still not comfortable talking to some of my grandparents about it (my dad's parents are Southern Baptists).

I will pray for you. Most of the suggestions offered here seem good (taking your father to a service, praying at home (I pray the Divine Office regularly as I can). I can empathize with the conflicting desires to pursue where you feel called, but also to respect the bonds of family. One of my mentors told me that ultimately, I have to go where I am led, and that as long as I was respectful to other members of my family in the process, I had done all that I could do. That said, I know that's not exactly comforting or easy in the moment. The peace and mercy of the Lord be with you and yours.

Offline Peacemaker

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 09:10:01 PM »
I'm surprised no one has asked this question yet, how old are you? Are you a legal adult who has the legal right to leave the house?

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 09:14:11 PM »
I'm surprised no one has asked this question yet, how old are you? Are you a legal adult who has the legal right to leave the house?

A legal right is not in itself sufficient, you also need money if you want to live on your own (barring some exceptional circumstances, like becoming a monk, or living in a homeless shelter, but becoming homeless is hardly any better than the OP's current situation).

In order to get the money to buy/rent your own place, you'll need a job, but you have no guarantee of getting one since ultimately it's up to employers whether they want to hire someone or not.

Keep in mind that Protestant parents who are zealous enough may well end up disinheriting their child if he/she converts to Orthodoxy. (There've also been many people in the US who were disinherited because they married someone of another race. It's bigotry, and it's awful parenting, but it happens)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 09:15:59 PM by Minnesotan »

Offline Peacemaker

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2015, 12:01:26 AM »
I'm surprised no one has asked this question yet, how old are you? Are you a legal adult who has the legal right to leave the house?

A legal right is not in itself sufficient, you also need money if you want to live on your own (barring some exceptional circumstances, like becoming a monk, or living in a homeless shelter, but becoming homeless is hardly any better than the OP's current situation).

In order to get the money to buy/rent your own place, you'll need a job, but you have no guarantee of getting one since ultimately it's up to employers whether they want to hire someone or not.

Keep in mind that Protestant parents who are zealous enough may well end up disinheriting their child if he/she converts to Orthodoxy. (There've also been many people in the US who were disinherited because they married someone of another race. It's bigotry, and it's awful parenting, but it happens)

Let the dead berry their dead. If you love Christ and you want to be apart of His Church, you'll find away. Find an Orthodox parishioner that'll let you live with them. I've been living with a parishioner for the past year and half. Ask friends if you could stay with them. You can't make excuses when it comes to Christ. You can't bring God down to our level and you can't think worldly when it comes to our faith. Place your trust in the Lord, your full trust that He'll take care of you and go from there. It might be frustrating to some because they are trying to think rationally and worldly, God doesn't work that way.

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2015, 12:19:11 AM »
I would recommend talking to a priest about it, but I can sympathize with you. My parents are convinced that I am an apostate and my wife is not at all happy with my decision. Obviously, it is a bit easier for me because I'm 35 so my parents can't tell me what to do, but you do have my sympathies. My only recommendations would be to continue to attend with your father until you go to college. Respect what he says, even if you don't agree and do you best to demonstrate the love of Christ to him.  Nothing validates someone's prejudices against your faith faster than if you make it into a point of contention. I unfortunately learned that the hard way. I wish I would not have tried to pressure my wife to accept my decision to go to Orthodoxy because it only ended up with her throwing it back in my face and telling me that it must be a terrible religion if it is tearing us apart. After I went to some counseling with my priest, I determined it would be best to just show her love in any way that I can and not discuss religion. It is difficult, because there is so much I want to share, but I know that if I did, she would just take it the wrong way.  I would approach your father in the same way.  Who knows? Maybe some day, his mind will change.

"You must be a terrible woman if you'd let Orthodoxy tear us apart" - is the reason I never married and no married person should ever take advice from me ever.

Let the dead berry their dead.

Are we referring to the wheat berry that goes to making the koliva? That provides a new spin on things.

In all seriousness to the OP: If you're young enough to be living in your parents' house I wouldn't make a big deal of it. God respects our obedience to those placed above us. When you go to college/move out start pursuing Orthodoxy seriously. In the meantime, respect your father as the icon of Christ.

What do they call it when older you says something completely different than younger you did?

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Peacemaker

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2015, 12:29:18 AM »
I would recommend talking to a priest about it, but I can sympathize with you. My parents are convinced that I am an apostate and my wife is not at all happy with my decision. Obviously, it is a bit easier for me because I'm 35 so my parents can't tell me what to do, but you do have my sympathies. My only recommendations would be to continue to attend with your father until you go to college. Respect what he says, even if you don't agree and do you best to demonstrate the love of Christ to him.  Nothing validates someone's prejudices against your faith faster than if you make it into a point of contention. I unfortunately learned that the hard way. I wish I would not have tried to pressure my wife to accept my decision to go to Orthodoxy because it only ended up with her throwing it back in my face and telling me that it must be a terrible religion if it is tearing us apart. After I went to some counseling with my priest, I determined it would be best to just show her love in any way that I can and not discuss religion. It is difficult, because there is so much I want to share, but I know that if I did, she would just take it the wrong way.  I would approach your father in the same way.  Who knows? Maybe some day, his mind will change.

"You must be a terrible woman if you'd let Orthodoxy tear us apart" - is the reason I never married and no married person should ever take advice from me ever.

Let the dead berry their dead.

Are we referring to the wheat berry that goes to making the koliva? That provides a new spin on things.

In all seriousness to the OP: If you're young enough to be living in your parents' house I wouldn't make a big deal of it. God respects our obedience to those placed above us. When you go to college/move out start pursuing Orthodoxy seriously. In the meantime, respect your father as the icon of Christ.

What do they call it when older you says something completely different than younger you did?



 :laugh:  the grammar gestapo is out again  :angel:


 ::) :P

Offline NoahB

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2015, 04:36:44 PM »
Well, God has been at work in my household.

First, I went on the trip to see my dad. The very first day, I began to talk to him about religion. He mellowed out a lot, and while he remains against Orthodoxy, he told me that it would be fine if I went to the local Classical Anglican church. So, when I got back, my mom and I started to go there (we had already gone twice before). The Church stands firmly against the degeneracies of homosexuality and female clergy, affirms the real presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, and other traditional Anglican beliefs. The priest is a wonderful, sincere man. He invited my mom and I to his office after the service... it had about 10 beautiful, hand painted icons in it. We set up a time to meet and talk about my mom and my concerns and questions on Friday.

Then the most wonderful thing happened. As I was leaving, he handed me a book and said, "Here. I want you to take a look at this book before we meet again." I looked down to it: For the Life of the World by Father Alexander Schmemann.

Then I got home, and called my dad. He said that he plans on attending his Anglican church as well. Now understand this: there are only 2 classical Anglican churches in Oregon. The rest are all liberal. It just so happens that he lives right next to one of the true ones. He went there and really enjoyed it. Now I'm getting lots of emails from him as he explores the beauties of the liturgy, vestments, and "high church" aspects.

So, basically, right now I'm in a church that's as close to Orthodoxy as you get without actually being Orthodox. It's the absolute best I could have hoped for, until I move out at least.
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.

Offline NanaDeborah

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2015, 04:58:55 PM »
Well, Glory to God!  Who would have thought?
Thy Bridal Chamber, I see adorned, O my Savior, and have no wedding garment that I may enter.  Enlighten the vesture of my soul, O Giver of Light, and save me.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2015, 05:12:10 PM »
Well, well, NoahB!
Go for awhile with Dad, when he wants.
After a time, see if you may take him (and Mom) to a Divine Liturgy "just to see and compare".
At least for the Love of God.

Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline CharalambisMakarios

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2015, 07:15:52 PM »
Well, God has been at work in my household.

First, I went on the trip to see my dad. The very first day, I began to talk to him about religion. He mellowed out a lot, and while he remains against Orthodoxy, he told me that it would be fine if I went to the local Classical Anglican church. So, when I got back, my mom and I started to go there (we had already gone twice before). The Church stands firmly against the degeneracies of homosexuality and female clergy, affirms the real presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, and other traditional Anglican beliefs. The priest is a wonderful, sincere man. He invited my mom and I to his office after the service... it had about 10 beautiful, hand painted icons in it. We set up a time to meet and talk about my mom and my concerns and questions on Friday.

Then the most wonderful thing happened. As I was leaving, he handed me a book and said, "Here. I want you to take a look at this book before we meet again." I looked down to it: For the Life of the World by Father Alexander Schmemann.

Then I got home, and called my dad. He said that he plans on attending his Anglican church as well. Now understand this: there are only 2 classical Anglican churches in Oregon. The rest are all liberal. It just so happens that he lives right next to one of the true ones. He went there and really enjoyed it. Now I'm getting lots of emails from him as he explores the beauties of the liturgy, vestments, and "high church" aspects.

So, basically, right now I'm in a church that's as close to Orthodoxy as you get without actually being Orthodox. It's the absolute best I could have hoped for, until I move out at least.

Wonderful news! I will be praying for further development, but I'm very glad you've come to an understanding for now and have found a place that is closer to where God is calling you. I hope and pray you will soon be able to make the final leap when you leave home, if that is where you're supposed to be.

Offline orthohawk

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2015, 06:14:28 PM »
I'll try to keep you in prayer, Noah. You need the comfort and direction of God at this time. May I ask how old you are?

Right now, I'm 17. 18 in May.

However, I just visited with my father. And was actually rather surprised at his openness to discuss religion. He had some interesting counterarguments to my disputes on sola scriptura, though I remain unconvinced. In God's providence, he was reading a lot of Anglicans lately, such as John Stott and NT Wright, and ended up making a compromise with me that I can attend a local Orthodox Anglican Church.

As far as I see it, some Church Tradition is better than none at all. I don't know if I should take Communion or not. I know if I attended an Orthodox Church regularly it would be like "cheating" on a spouse.

My unloving words about my father were totally uncalled for, now that I read them again.
Are you close to an E.Orthodox church?  I know you said your father makes you go to church with him on Sunday morning, but what about Saturday night?  If there is an EO church you can go to, and they have it, start going to Vespers.  A friend of mine likens Vespers to a catechism in a service.

Offline Branthony

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2015, 09:16:22 PM »
I have not read all the responses to this, also I am not a priest however I would give you this advice. A large part of the orthodox life is obedience. You should treat your father as if he where your Abbott
 Be obedient to him. Wait until you are a man and are out on your own. As far as the compromise I don't know anything about the Anglican orthodox church, however I am guessing that they are not part of the true orthodox church. My suggestion there would be, do not sell your soul for half of the kingdom. Wait until you can have the one true faith. Waiting until you have permission to join the true church will bring you reward, however taking only a partial prize will leave you wanting.  That is my advice. I'm sure there is other very good advice from other folks, this is just my advice.
Forgive me if I misspell something, I am dyslexic and it greatly effects my spelling.

Offline underzealousconvert94

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2015, 01:32:17 PM »
Interestingly enough, I had a friend of mine who though knowing me and talking about Orthodoxy also moved from Reformed to Classical Anglicanism.

The best thing you can do is pray for your parents and continue to love and respect them.
All of our hope, we place in thee O Mother of God, do preserve us under thy shelter.

Offline NoahB

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2015, 03:33:54 PM »
Interestingly enough, I had a friend of mine who though knowing me and talking about Orthodoxy also moved from Reformed to Classical Anglicanism.

The best thing you can do is pray for your parents and continue to love and respect them.

I love the Anglican Tradition. It suits me quite well, though I may still move to Orthodoxy in the future.

Unfortunately, the idiots who manage our ecumenical relations managed to totally alienate us from the Orthodox Church by going down the liberal path.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 03:34:09 PM by NoahB »
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.

Offline NoahB

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 10:57:03 AM »
Just a quick update... I'm only 5 months into Anglicanism and I'm already getting frustrated by the Protestant, non-traditional additions to the liturgy, namely the Victorian platitudes called "hymns" which totally break immersion when we're in the middle of the service. I'm becoming more and more certain that I will begin attending an Orthodox church once I move out... or at least go to an Orthodox and Anglican church side by side to see which one God is leading me toward.

That being said, however, I think the Book of Common Prayer is an incredible book and even the Orthodox can find a great source of spiritual wealth in its collects. I enjoy the liturgy, even if it is not completely ancient, and I love my parish and my priest.
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 02:12:38 PM »
I like the BCP, too. It almost made me an Anglican, once.

Offline wgw

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 03:12:05 PM »
I very much enjoy the BCP, but mainly comparing versions of it.   For the Orthodox liturgy, imagine instead of one volume of services, twenty, and they're all more emotionally intense and high church than any BCP edition.  And many of them are obscure and difficult or impossible to obtain.  For example, the complete Monthly Menaion in the Byzantine Rite.  Thus the Orthodox liturgy is like a rabbit hole, or something you have to work to collect; whereas one can experience essentially everything in the BCP by going to all the Sunday and Holy Day services throughout the year, there are Orthodox services of unimaginable obscurity.  For example, the Divine Liturgy of St. James, which will probably require a visit to a seminary. And again that's just in the Byzantine Rite.  If one dedicated oneself to obscurities of the Ethiopic Rite, one could learn Ge'ez and spend a lifetime amidst the rock hewn churches of Ethiopia documenting the fabulous untold riches of Abyssinian liturgical treasure. 

Really, compared to that excitement, the BCP does come up as rather boring.  But I view it as somewhat like the library on Myst, for those who recall the thrilling 1990s puzzle computer game.  A room itself relatively unexceptional but that contains within the promises of lands far more exotic, as to defy the imagination.  The BCP is like a lobby or starting point from which the fabulous adventures through the liturgical realm can begin, a point of departure as it were between the mundane world and the more exotic realm embodied in the sacred rites.
I am Oriental Orthodox but love the Eastern Orthodox, and the Byzantine liturgy.  I also love the Western liturgy.  I hope for the reconciliation of our churches.

Please forgive any offense my posts cause; none is intended. No statements I make should be regarded as authoritative, regardless of tone. Let us bless the Lord ar all times.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 03:13:58 PM »
I very much enjoy the BCP, but mainly comparing versions of it.   For the Orthodox liturgy, imagine instead of one volume of services, twenty, and they're all more emotionally intense and high church than any BCP edition.  And many of them are obscure and difficult or impossible to obtain.  For example, the complete Monthly Menaion in the Byzantine Rite.  Thus the Orthodox liturgy is like a rabbit hole, or something you have to work to collect; whereas one can experience essentially everything in the BCP by going to all the Sunday and Holy Day services throughout the year, there are Orthodox services of unimaginable obscurity.  For example, the Divine Liturgy of St. James, which will probably require a visit to a seminary. And again that's just in the Byzantine Rite.  If one dedicated oneself to obscurities of the Ethiopic Rite, one could learn Ge'ez and spend a lifetime amidst the rock hewn churches of Ethiopia documenting the fabulous untold riches of Abyssinian liturgical treasure. 

Really, compared to that excitement, the BCP does come up as rather boring.  But I view it as somewhat like the library on Myst, for those who recall the thrilling 1990s puzzle computer game.  A room itself relatively unexceptional but that contains within the promises of lands far more exotic, as to defy the imagination.  The BCP is like a lobby or starting point from which the fabulous adventures through the liturgical realm can begin, a point of departure as it were between the mundane world and the more exotic realm embodied in the sacred rites.

I love Myst! At least up until Myst III.

Offline NoahB

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Re: Being Orthodox in a Frozen Chosen House
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 07:41:14 PM »
I very much enjoy the BCP, but mainly comparing versions of it.   For the Orthodox liturgy, imagine instead of one volume of services, twenty, and they're all more emotionally intense and high church than any BCP edition.  And many of them are obscure and difficult or impossible to obtain.  For example, the complete Monthly Menaion in the Byzantine Rite.  Thus the Orthodox liturgy is like a rabbit hole, or something you have to work to collect; whereas one can experience essentially everything in the BCP by going to all the Sunday and Holy Day services throughout the year, there are Orthodox services of unimaginable obscurity.  For example, the Divine Liturgy of St. James, which will probably require a visit to a seminary. And again that's just in the Byzantine Rite.  If one dedicated oneself to obscurities of the Ethiopic Rite, one could learn Ge'ez and spend a lifetime amidst the rock hewn churches of Ethiopia documenting the fabulous untold riches of Abyssinian liturgical treasure. 

Really, compared to that excitement, the BCP does come up as rather boring.  But I view it as somewhat like the library on Myst, for those who recall the thrilling 1990s puzzle computer game.  A room itself relatively unexceptional but that contains within the promises of lands far more exotic, as to defy the imagination.  The BCP is like a lobby or starting point from which the fabulous adventures through the liturgical realm can begin, a point of departure as it were between the mundane world and the more exotic realm embodied in the sacred rites.

Wow. This post made me really want to get more into liturgics.
I oftentimes come across as being belligerent. I apologize in advance. No offense is intended.