Author Topic: Stupid Questions Thread  (Read 2684 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CarolS

  • Lurker Extraordinaire
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #135 on: June 20, 2015, 03:43:39 PM »
I think it's reasonable that while Holy Communion is being offered, there should not be unnecessary walking around (just as it is not appropriate to go around venerating all the icons or lighting candles at this point)-- only those going up to receive Communion.  The non-recipients can wait for the antidoron bread at the end of the service when it is passed out to all, though in some Russian Churches, I have seen toddlers crowding around the Zapivka table for extra bread. Once during an exceedingly long sermon at the end of the Liturgy, the toddlers ate up all the antidoron that the altar server was holding and none was left for the adults.


Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 39,156
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #136 on: June 21, 2015, 10:28:14 PM »
Alright, new stupid question (don't worry, I've got many more on the way). I know that Ninth Hour is usually aggregated with Vespers. Because I've seen Divine Liturgies come after every hour, I'm assuming that Typica, while optimally prayed after sixth hour, can technically be prayed after any hour as well. Would this be a correct assumption? And if it is, let's take a hypothetical scenario and assume that I get home at 5 in the evening. Would it be okay to pray ninth hour, then the typica for the past day, and then go into vespers?

Typika is prayed after the Sixth Hour on liturgical days when there is no opportunity to have the Liturgy.  It is prayed after the Ninth Hour on aliturgical days when no Liturgy may be celebrated.  I'm not sure if you can just do it whenever you want.

Yes, but isn't the liturgy also technically supposed to be celebrated after the sixth hour? At least, that's what both my Horologion say. So, if the liturgy can be switched around to come, say, after Matins, is there any reason why Typica wouldn't be able too as well?

I don't know.  You can't control the liturgical schedule in your church/monastery, so you may have to work around it.  But when you do have some control over your schedule (and when it comes to prayer at home, you do)   
I'm reminded you are unmarried without children.

I've only prayed Typika when I couldn't make DL, and the only switching of DL has been Vesperal DL, Paschal Vigil (where DL is before 6th hr, etc).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 10:33:08 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ergro

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox (Catechumen)
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Jerusalem
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #137 on: June 27, 2015, 12:45:15 AM »
New question, this time about the biblical odes (canons). I know that during weekdays of Great Lent they're recited in full (the ode all the way through with the lines from the Octoechos inserted towards the end). But what about outside of Great Lent? Are only the lines from the Octoechos/Menaion read and the full ode is omitted? I've read a lot of conflicting information on the subject. Some say yes; some say no; some say only at Matins while the canons at compline and Sunday Midnight Service are not. What's the proper procedure here?

Offline Bob2

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 285
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #138 on: June 27, 2015, 04:14:06 AM »
New question, this time about the biblical odes (canons). I know that during weekdays of Great Lent they're recited in full (the ode all the way through with the lines from the Octoechos inserted towards the end). But what about outside of Great Lent? Are only the lines from the Octoechos/Menaion read and the full ode is omitted? I've read a lot of conflicting information on the subject. Some say yes; some say no; some say only at Matins while the canons at compline and Sunday Midnight Service are not. What's the proper procedure here?

Yes, it is called for in the Typicon, but it is hardly ever done in parish practice, and you are correct that they are only for Matins, they are essentially part of the skeleton of Matins, similar the verses on Lord I have Cried, or the Praises. Interestingly the refrains used in place are not called for in the Typicon, but are rather the result of popular piety, the use of the refrains is still an old practice, even the Old Believers use the refrains.

What is proper? They are called for, but I think omitting them is a reasonable parish practice, though it would be nice to see it done at least occasionally.


Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,754
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #139 on: June 27, 2015, 11:38:21 AM »
What is proper? They are called for, but I think omitting them is a reasonable parish practice, though it would be nice to see it done at least occasionally.

Ah, the old liturgical principle that, if abbreviations are necessary, Scriptural texts are the first things to drop out of the services.  :P
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Bob2

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 285
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #140 on: June 27, 2015, 01:44:37 PM »
What is proper? They are called for, but I think omitting them is a reasonable parish practice, though it would be nice to see it done at least occasionally.

Ah, the old liturgical principle that, if abbreviations are necessary, Scriptural texts are the first things to drop out of the services.  :P

That's fair, I'm actually an advocate for it being done more than it is now. What would you cut? Most of the services are scripture, and much that which isn't is hymnography specific to the feast.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,754
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #141 on: June 27, 2015, 01:54:40 PM »
What is proper? They are called for, but I think omitting them is a reasonable parish practice, though it would be nice to see it done at least occasionally.

Ah, the old liturgical principle that, if abbreviations are necessary, Scriptural texts are the first things to drop out of the services.  :P

That's fair, I'm actually an advocate for it being done more than it is now. What would you cut? Most of the services are scripture, and much that which isn't is hymnography specific to the feast.

I'm not sure what I would cut.  I can see the value in retaining the hymnography which expounds on the theme of the day/feast.  But the principle I mentioned above amuses me nevertheless: it happens in all rites that, when the services become too heavy, it is the Scriptural texts that are the first to go, even though they are there because in earlier times they were the bulk of the service and still provide the skeleton into which we plug more and more hymnography.  I have a hard time parting with either, even if doing both in full would also be difficult.

If I had to suggest a solution, I'd suggest the pattern of the Triodion: odes eight and nine, with their hymnography, daily, preceded by another ode, with its hymnography, which varies by day of the week.   
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Kmon23

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
  • Jurisdiction: None... yet ;)
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #142 on: June 28, 2015, 07:12:50 PM »
1. What does it mean in the Liturgy, Holy things are for the holy?

2. And can we bless our own food? (Only a catechumen). And what is the eastern orthodox way to bless food?

Offline Thomas

  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,879
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #143 on: June 29, 2015, 05:26:25 PM »
From the OCA website:
BEFORE MEALS:

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Lord, have mercy. (3x)

O Christ our God, bless the food, drink, and fellowship of Thy servants, for Thou art holy always, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

AFTER MEALS:

We give thanks to Thee, O Christ our God, that Thou hast satisfied us with Thy earthly blessings; deprive us not also of Thy Heavenly Kingdom. As Thou didst come to Thy disciples and didst grant them peace; so come to us and save us, O Savior.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Lord, have mercy. (3x)

Blessed is God, Who has fed and nourished us with His bountiful gifts by His grace and compassion always, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas

Offline Friedrich

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • I used to be indecisive but now I’m not too sure.
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: *Doesn't know what to put here*
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #144 on: June 29, 2015, 05:53:32 PM »
From the OCA website:
BEFORE MEALS:

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Lord, have mercy. (3x)

O Christ our God, bless the food, drink, and fellowship of Thy servants, for Thou art holy always, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

AFTER MEALS:

We give thanks to Thee, O Christ our God, that Thou hast satisfied us with Thy earthly blessings; deprive us not also of Thy Heavenly Kingdom. As Thou didst come to Thy disciples and didst grant them peace; so come to us and save us, O Savior.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Lord, have mercy. (3x)

Blessed is God, Who has fed and nourished us with His bountiful gifts by His grace and compassion always, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

How does one manage to do this in mixed company? I've managed to mumble it out over my personal meals (it's so strange not to be praying with one's eyes closed, much less reading off your kindle), but with friends and family (all protestant) I mumble a quick Jesus prayer in addition to the bland 'Sanctify this food' blurb.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,754
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #145 on: June 29, 2015, 05:54:25 PM »
When in doubt, I say the Jesus prayer. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,754
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #146 on: June 29, 2015, 06:07:12 PM »
1. What does it mean in the Liturgy, Holy things are for the holy?

It basically means that the "holy things" (the Eucharist) are for "the holy" (those who are struggling to rid themselves of sin and become perfect and holy, as well as those who have already attained to this condition). 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Kmon23

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
  • Jurisdiction: None... yet ;)
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #147 on: June 29, 2015, 10:01:27 PM »
1. What does it mean in the Liturgy, Holy things are for the holy?

It basically means that the "holy things" (the Eucharist) are for "the holy" (those who are struggling to rid themselves of sin and become perfect and holy, as well as those who have already attained to this condition).

Can holy also mean those who are set apart (the people within the church?)

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,754
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #148 on: June 29, 2015, 10:53:07 PM »
1. What does it mean in the Liturgy, Holy things are for the holy?

It basically means that the "holy things" (the Eucharist) are for "the holy" (those who are struggling to rid themselves of sin and become perfect and holy, as well as those who have already attained to this condition).

Can holy also mean those who are set apart (the people within the church?)

Those who are baptised, chrismated, and are struggling against sin and striving for holiness are "set apart" and thus "holy".  So yes. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Kmon23

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
  • Jurisdiction: None... yet ;)
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #149 on: Yesterday at 03:41:26 PM »
And for blessing of food, (at Church) what does it mean to say "master bless" vs. "bless o Lord?"

Offline Thomas

  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,879
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #150 on: Yesterday at 04:46:41 PM »
When we go out to a Restaurant we say the Our father and the OCA Grace.
Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas

Offline Bob2

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 285
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #151 on: Yesterday at 09:24:05 PM »
And for blessing of food, (at Church) what does it mean to say "master bless" vs. "bless o Lord?"

"Master" refers to the bishop, who if present will give the blessing.

Reader service: "O Lord Bless"
Only priest(s) present: "Father Bless"
Bishop(s) present: "Master Bless"

Offline Kmon23

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
  • Jurisdiction: None... yet ;)
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #152 on: Today at 12:00:42 AM »
That's odd. When we have a priest we say master, but if only a deacon, then bless o Lord. :o

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,542
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Stupid Questions Thread
« Reply #153 on: Today at 12:23:47 AM »
That's odd. When we have a priest we say master, but if only a deacon, then bless o Lord. :o

That's because a deacon is not a priest.  ;)

Are you sure you say Master, not Father, in the presence of a priest? Master is for bishops.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:24:56 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?