Author Topic: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)  (Read 2335 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dismus

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
Anyone? I am wondering if anyone here has and if they feel it has enhanced their understanding of the Christian faith.

Once again, for clarity- the OT does not count.

Offline Matthew777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,497
  • Seek and ye shall find
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2006, 09:40:54 PM »
One must understand Judaism in order to understand the Jewish roots of Orthodoxy. Out of all non-Christian religions, it is the one we should know the most about. I've been interested in learning more of Hasidic spirituality, and I think that what I've seen is interesting.
He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm

Offline admiralnick

  • Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,880
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2006, 10:16:47 PM »
theres a jewish faith?  :o


hehe, in all seriousness, I only know the parts that have to do with orthodoxy, for the rest, I ask my jewish friend. She knows EVERYTHING!
The ORIGINAL: "NULL"

Offline Dismus

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2006, 11:13:01 PM »
I did not intend for this to be a "funny" post!
This is far from funny.

I said that hoping that all the real sarcastic and self professed 'funny" ones would show up to make a mockery here-----

seriously-

What do we really know? Other than the OT?

Offline Justin Kissel

  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,769
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2006, 11:15:05 PM »
I've read a book here and there about Judaism. For me, reading about ancient Judaism helped put Christianity in perspective, especially all the charges about how Christianity were supposedly "persecutors that beat up the defenseless [insert minority group here]". I think that if you read any religion's history (using a somewhat objective source), you're gonna find as many villains as saints. How you view the claimed anti-Semitism of John Chrysostom, for example, can change drastically when you see how other people spoke and acted at the time. Reading about Judaism also helps remind Christians, I think, about concepts that don't get a lot of attention on many theology boards, such as the idea of "inclusive reckoning".

Offline Dismus

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2006, 11:31:39 PM »
I've read a book here and there about Judaism. For me, reading about ancient Judaism helped put Christianity in perspective, especially all the charges about how Christianity were supposedly "persecutors that beat up the defenseless [insert minority group here]". I think that if you read any religion's history (using a somewhat objective source), you're gonna find as many villains as saints. How you view the claimed anti-Semitism of John Chrysostom, for example, can change drastically when you see how other people spoke and acted at the time. Reading about Judaism also helps remind Christians, I think, about concepts that don't get a lot of attention on many theology boards, such as the idea of "inclusive reckoning".

Inclusive reckoning?

Thank you!!!
Never heard that one before!
See what I mean- just because we are Christians does not preculde us from exploring our foundations-
It as if we don't care!
I bet there is much to benefit from by knowing what came before us!
How Mary lived.....
How Joseph really lived..
not by our lense, but through their eyes!
What harm can come of it?
Other than a deeper understanding of their lives.
St. John The Baptist is my favorite Saint. Thinking on him has caused me to ask this.

Offline Tallitot

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,776
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2006, 01:33:14 AM »
I've attended Jewish temple services (regular ones, not just weddings or bar-mitzvahs) and when I started attending the OC I was struck by the similiarity of the worship.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2006, 05:45:35 AM »
I've attended Jewish temple services (regular ones, not just weddings or bar-mitzvahs) and when I started attending the OC I was struck by the similiarity of the worship.

Thank you, Crucifer.
I noted this as well in my early years and it led me to realize that Christianity is the completion of the Jewish faith.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Tikhon29605

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 670
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2006, 10:56:42 AM »
Can anyone point out specific examples of how a Jewish service is similar to an Orthodox Christian one? This sounds interesting.

Offline observer

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 546
  • Vivre die Raznitsa!
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2006, 12:05:17 PM »
I don't want to appear provocative or worst still cynical, but when you are Orthodox and striving (however feebly) to live your life in Christ, then how Judaism works/or history,  from the inside is irrelevant.  I am immediately reminded of the story of the young monk, going to market, met a Jew who befriended him.  By the time young monk was ready to return back to his monastery, he had apostasized.  What I am trying to say is that you can only understand these things from the inside of the Church, not the outside full of speculation and error.

Within the Church we receive wisdom.  Read the life of Elders Paissios or Porphyrios.  Solomon had this wisdom, but he lost it.  It's too easy to get led astray by the Talmud (especially the revised for Goyim) and to be easily led by the demons to see everything through rose-tinted spectacles*.  I believe it is more important to keep your eyes down and get on with your spiritual life.   I have friendly Jewish neighbors and I know many Jewish converts to Orthodoxy, but for me the OT and NT are relevations from God about Christ the Messiah.

*Blessed are the peacemakers (not the peace lovers - compromise).
Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)

Offline Panagiotis

  • Libertarian/Orthodox/Lush
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 406
  • Advocating Liberty Since 1973
    • The Two-Cent Philosopher
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2006, 12:51:16 PM »
I will do a write up and show the similiarities regarding the Divine Liturgy and the Temple Judaic service. There really is no Rabbinical Judaic similiarities except for what they kept in their services like the opening of the Ark and the Torah reading.

BTW a Jew here, if you wanted to know. My father was a convert to Protestantism but raised us with Jewish practices along with my grandmother. So I am aware of many of the concepts and philosophies involved therein.

Quote
theres a jewish faith?
Much like Orthodoxy, it is cultural as well as spiritual.

Quote
don't want to appear provocative or worst still cynical, but when you are Orthodox and striving (however feebly) to live your life in Christ, then how Judaism works/or history,  from the inside is irrelevant.
The quest to see fulfillment from Judaism, especially to understand Judaism in its wholeness(or from the inside, so to speak) is extremely beautiful and I would never call it "irrelevant". In fact, if it were not for the synagogues I would have never converted to Orthodoxy, nor would I have even considered it, due to the writings of Chrysostom honestly. But because I was able to experience Judaism I was able to convert, easily.

Quote
I am immediately reminded of the story of the young monk, going to market, met a Jew who befriended him.  By the time young monk was ready to return back to his monastery, he had apostasized.  What I am trying to say is that you can only understand these things from the inside of the Church, not the outside full of speculation and error.
I agree with you. I will state, however, that if one is grounded into the Faith that looking into Judaism for insight into the fulness of Christ is not damaging, but I stress that one needs to be grounded.

Quote
I have friendly Jewish neighbors and I know many Jewish converts to Orthodoxy,
It saddens me that I only know one Jewish convert to Orthodoxy. For the most part, it is the (supposed)Anti-Semitic statements made by many of the Church Fathers and, sadly, the misunderstandings of many Orthodox Priests who have told Jewish converts to do away with their practices which are done culturally as well as spiritually. Telling a Jewish copnvert that they cannot celebrate or observe Chanukah is like telling the Orthodox to never venerate icons or be Greek, Russian, etc.

My personal opinion, not the Churches or a Priests, but my own: Let the Jewish convert remain culturally Jewish, which does included many holidays and feasts that do not interfere with Orthodoxy or its doctrines. Doing so is very fair, considering that Greek Orthodoxy has its own cultural tie-ins within the Church, as does other Orthodox Churches which are culturally Traditions. Why tell the Jewish convert that he cannot be Jewish? Its like telling the Greek he cannot be Greek anymore or the Russian, or Romanian or Serbian.

Blessings,
Panagiotis

"The first condition for the establishment of perpetual peace is the general adoption of the principles of laissez-faire capitalism"
-Ludwig Von Mises

Offline Dismus

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2006, 12:54:13 PM »
Can anyone point out specific examples of how a Jewish service is similar to an Orthodox Christian one? This sounds interesting.

Yes it does! I am wondering about the music too. I mean, do they use it in their service like we do? Do they use insence? Do they have saints? Do they have more prophets that we don't know about?
Hmmm

Offline Dismus

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2006, 12:59:17 PM »
how in the heck would someone make the jump from Jesus to Judism just from researching it?

I would gladly give up my life before I would give up on Jesus.

The blasphemous thought gives me a chill.

You should never fear knowledge if you already have Jesus since no one compares to him and no one ever will.

How can learning anything from their practices cause a conversion?

I don't buy it. I don't think you need to be "grounded" in anything more than a belief in Jesus.

Offline observer

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 546
  • Vivre die Raznitsa!
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2006, 04:05:14 PM »
Being grounded in the faith is not simply knowledge and practice - it is, I believe, a spiritual concept.  Within the Church we are warned against prelest.  Do you have a good thought, a good idea?  don't act on it.  check it with the Gospel or better still with your spiritual father or someone who is spiritually discerning and can share these things with you.   This is not a logical argument, but a spiritual one.  On the spiritual path there are many dangers.  Therefore we have confession and spiritual guidance.  We also have, dare I say, obedience, a concept alien to the modern mind?
  Studying Judaism may not be bad in itself, but your reasons or passion to do so, may be your downfall.  (I use You to mean us!).
Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)

Offline observer

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 546
  • Vivre die Raznitsa!
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2006, 04:05:52 PM »
I know many convert Jews, they are mainly Russian.
Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)

Offline Panagiotis

  • Libertarian/Orthodox/Lush
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 406
  • Advocating Liberty Since 1973
    • The Two-Cent Philosopher
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2006, 02:07:59 AM »
That would make sense. I never lived near a high amnount of Russian Americans. I have mostly been surrounded by Italian and Mexican Americans most of my life. But the Jewish culture I was surrounded by refused to convert to anything except a few who went to Roman Catholicism.

Blessings,
Panagiotis

"The first condition for the establishment of perpetual peace is the general adoption of the principles of laissez-faire capitalism"
-Ludwig Von Mises

Offline admiralnick

  • Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,880
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2006, 03:45:11 PM »
Studying the Jewish faith as a matter of history might be good for general reference, but as far as orthodoxy is concerned, I don't believe that its really an all so important topic to research. I could think of 1000s of topics in Orthodoxy to research, and I would think it would be more beneficial to research these than to research the Jewish faith. How many people actually are well enough grounded in Orthodoxy that they can venture out into a different religion? Does anyone on here (with the exception of a few of you) really know that much about Orthodoxy and the church to delve deeply into Judaism? Sun Tzu said, "Know thy enemy and know thy self and a thousand victories shall be yours." Now I'm taking this quote completely out of context and not to signify Judaism as our enemy, (so no bashing me about that), but do we really know ourselves? And if we don't know ourselves, then how can we expect to know anyone else?

-Nick
The ORIGINAL: "NULL"

Offline Cephas

  • There is no spoon.
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 288
  • γνῶθισε αυτόν
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2006, 04:48:16 PM »
+ Irini nem ehmot,

Along the same lines as what Nick was saying, the Great one, St. Anthony, said, "He who knows himself, knows God."

'nuff said.

Please pray for me.
Cephas 

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises we are healed."
-- Isaiah 53:5

"He who knows himself knows God"
-- Pi Nishti Abba Antony

Offline Dismus

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2006, 06:39:26 PM »
+ Irini nem ehmot,

Along the same lines as what Nick was saying, the Great one, St. Anthony, said, "He who knows himself, knows God."

'nuff said.

Please pray for me.
Cephas- what does Irini nem ehmot  mean?
I promise I will not ask again.
It has perplexed me.

Offline Cephas

  • There is no spoon.
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 288
  • γνῶθισε αυτόν
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2006, 11:53:04 PM »
+ Irini nem ehmot,

Cephas- what does Irini nem ehmot  mean?
I promise I will not ask again.
It has perplexed me.

Irini nem ehmot is just coptic for "Peace and grace".  :) 

Please pray for me.
Cephas 

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises we are healed."
-- Isaiah 53:5

"He who knows himself knows God"
-- Pi Nishti Abba Antony

Offline Panagiotis

  • Libertarian/Orthodox/Lush
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 406
  • Advocating Liberty Since 1973
    • The Two-Cent Philosopher
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2006, 01:48:36 AM »
Quote
tudying the Jewish faith as a matter of history might be good for general reference, but as far as orthodoxy is concerned, I don't believe that its really an all so important topic to research. I could think of 1000s of topics in Orthodoxy to research, and I would think it would be more beneficial to research these than to research the Jewish faith.
I agree. Since I entered the Church I have yet to spend any time reading and studying anything else except the Church and His Love.

Blessings,
Panagiotis

"The first condition for the establishment of perpetual peace is the general adoption of the principles of laissez-faire capitalism"
-Ludwig Von Mises

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,239
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: How many of us know anything about the Jewish faith (outside of the OT)
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2006, 07:44:31 AM »
I would suppose the relative value of studying Judaism is, well, relative to the person, their personality, and situation.  If you're a priest or prominent parish member in an area densly populated by Jews, then knowing about their faith has definite advantages.  Or if you're someone interested in the history of our worship practices, or in the history of our theology, then it would provide much value.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.