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Author Topic: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???  (Read 7816 times) Average Rating: 0
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Psalti Boy
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« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2006, 08:56:59 PM »

I believe that people would forgive him if this were an isolated incident but it doesn't seem to be. It seems to be a personality trait and thats much harder to understand and forgive.

I agree with you about it being harder to understand and forgive.  I've struggled with forgiveness over my many years of life, and I too found it very difficult at times.  I had gone years without forgiving some people and didn't feel good about it after I forgave them.

But another point I would like to make . . . to me, Mel Gibson, as well as other celebrities are nobodies to me.  They don't affect my personal life nor do they have an influence on how I feel and act.  They're far away from my life.  So I don't worry about what they sayor do.  Yes it was wrong.  No doubt about it.  But does it affect me personally?  No.

Yes they may have to be held to a higher standard because of their public stature, but I guess I'm fortunate that I try not to allow people to influence me to that degree unless I want them to.
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« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2006, 09:02:41 PM »

A former Prime Minister of ours, James Callaghan was speaking about the death of Diana, Princess of Wales and said;

"I think that her death showed that although people boast about society being more secular, ultimately people want someone to worship and so they fill that space that should be filled by God with any manner of passing celebrities".

I think that's very true and you're right. Celebrities don't affect our personal lives. Personally, I have God and I don't need to fill that gap the late PM spoke of in the manner he put forward but I understand why people do. Usually, I couldn't care less but I think at the moment, the Israel issue is one on everyone's mind and comments like those made by Mr Gibson just don't help.
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« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2006, 12:18:51 AM »



I really, really hate America.
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« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2006, 01:34:30 AM »

Quote
Again recognizing God's Promises as Ironclad is not something I would characterize as 'pandering'.

God's promise only extends to the Christian Church, not ethnic Jews or Israel for that matter. I'm surprised people espouse this view, seeing that it is found nowhere in church history. The only people that advocate such a view are dispensational protestant Christians. Lets take a look at Revelations 2:9-10 for a clarification as to who the 'true jews' are - "I know your afflictions and your poverty - yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer."

Keep in mind that at the time the biggest persecutor of the Christian Church were the Jews who were still claiming to be God's chosen people and the rightful heir to the promises of God. Christ says that these people who Claim to be "Jews" are in actuality imposter's who are really persecuting those who are the true Jews, those in the Christian Church. As a backdrop, In Mathew 24 Christ propechied the destruction of the temple within his generation - which in effect ends the old covenant Jewish faith because the temple was at the center of everything pertaining to the Jewish faith. Now, in Revelations these events are unfolding as the promises are "officially" shifting from the old covenant to new as the temple is physically destroyed and the Jews are killed or taken by the Roman Army. I believe that even in Luke 21 it says to the effect that not one stone from the temple will be laying upon another to show the devastating judgement Christ was going to bring to Israel. The temple was destroyed in AD 70, exactly one generation as Christ promised.
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Mo the Ethio
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« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2006, 01:37:56 AM »


I really, really hate America.


Not me , I love it!     Self loathing is a drag, K.C.
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« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2006, 09:06:13 AM »


I really, really hate America.


Well, you do have choices: Iran, Syria, Nicaragua, North Korea.  Bon voyage!
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« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2006, 10:06:28 AM »

Keep it off the politics, fellas.
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« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2006, 10:18:22 AM »

I really, really hate America.

Why would you stay in a place that you hate? That makes no sense to me. I would leave.
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« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2006, 11:31:55 AM »

God's promise only extends to the Christian Church, not ethnic Jews or Israel for that matter. I'm surprised people espouse this view, seeing that it is found nowhere in church history.

Yeah, isn't it in Ezekiel somewhere where God says that he can raise his people from the stones on the ground if he so chooses?
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« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2006, 12:34:20 PM »

Well, you do have choices: Iran, Syria, Nicaragua, North Korea.ÂÂ  Bon voyage!

False dichotomy.

Peace.
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« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2006, 12:42:57 PM »

Actually Mel was reading the Aramaic/ George Lamas thread and was driven to extreme consumption of good single malt whiskey...

Good grief the thread is getting off course...drug & alcohol tests ASAP...

JB
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« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2006, 12:51:59 PM »

False dichotomy.

Peace.
Well then there's Turkey Iraq, Cuba, Lebanon, Darfur, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia,  Mexico, Columbia.

He is not with us in this country is against us! Embarrassed
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« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2006, 02:12:27 PM »

He is not with us in this country is against us! Embarrassed

Once again, that is an obvious false dichotomy.
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« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2006, 05:24:15 PM »

Well, you do have choices: Iran, Syria, Nicaragua, North Korea.ÂÂ  Bon voyage!

I can't believe I agree with this statement wholeheartedly!


Kansas-
Maybe we can all pitch in for your ticket. I hear there is a woman who was just scentenced to stoning in Iran. If you get there quickly, you may get to see Malak Ghorbany get the treatment. She was scentenced on June 28, 2006 in a court in the northwestern Iranian city of Urmia. They will wrap her in sheets and throw her in a hole so she can not run away. then, the bloodshed begins!
What a shame you don't like the USA.
I realize it is hard to compete with entertainment that other barbaric countries can provide, but hey, we get along ok.
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« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2006, 05:34:07 PM »

I can't believe I agree with this statement wholeheartedly!


Kansas-
Maybe we can all pitch in for your ticket. I hear there is a woman who was just scentenced to stoning in Iran. If you get there quickly, you may get to see Malak Ghorbany get the treatment. She was scentenced on June 28, 2006 in a court in the northwestern Iranian city of Urmia. They will wrap her in sheets and throw her in a hole so she can not run away. then, the bloodshed begins!
What a shame you don't like the USA.
I realize it is hard to compete with entertainment that other barbaric countries can provide, but hey, we get along ok.

    WAIT A MINUTE!     The user named "Kansas City " lives in Missouri NOT Kansas.  No Kansan in their right mind would EVER say any so outlandish as " I hate America"........Except those hippies in Lawrence!
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« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2006, 06:11:27 PM »

People, please lay off kansas city. Reflect for a moment that he/she is being morally publically stoned on this thread for expressing him/herself. It is the sign of a great Nation that it can accept criticism of itself, and it is a sign of a fascist dictatorship that no criticism will be tolerated. Turkey has a new law, Article 301, which forbids "insulting" Turkey, and people are being imprisoned for criticising Turkey. Congratulations USA, you seem to have joined the ranks of countries like Turkey. What ever happened to the people's Constitutional right to have their grievances heard? Whatever happened to the Constitutional right to freedom of expression? Whenever the State becomes a false Idol which all are required to bow down to without question, you can kiss "liberty and justice for all" goodbye.
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« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2006, 06:29:15 PM »

People, please lay off kansas city. Reflect for a moment that he/she is being morally publically stoned on this thread for expressing him/herself. It is the sign of a great Nation that it can accept criticism of itself, and it is a sign of a fascist dictatorship that no criticism will be tolerated. Turkey has a new law, Article 301, which forbids "insulting" Turkey, and people are being imprisoned for criticising Turkey. Congratulations USA, you seem to have joined the ranks of countries like Turkey. What ever happened to the people's Constitutional right to have their grievances heard? Whatever happened to the Constitutional right to freedom of expression? Whenever the State becomes a false Idol which all are required to bow down to without question, you can kiss "liberty and justice for all" goodbye.

Well, criticism is fine, but a sweeping condemnation is not.
This feeling the poster expresses is purely ludicrious. No one is here by force. It's by the poster's free will that he/she chooses to stay and likely can not find another place that they would be happy with. You get to vote here in the States. You get the freedom to get involved with your community if it is a lawful activity. If there is something that horrendous to make that charge then do something to make it better, or accept the fact that NOTHING in life is perfect. Not here on earth.
I for one am tierd of hearing about how bad the US is. Sure, anyone can attack it, but likewise I can defend it without being a fascist.
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« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2006, 06:33:16 PM »

Sure, anyone can attack it, but likewise I can defend it without being a fascist.

True. So then defend it without being a fascist. Explain to kansas city why you think he/she is wrong to hate America. But up until now, the only way you have "defended" your opinion of America is by deporting someone who disagrees with it.
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« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2006, 06:34:57 PM »

  ÃƒÆ’‚  WAIT A MINUTE!  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚ The user named "Kansas City " lives in Missouri NOT Kansas.  No Kansan in their right mind would EVER say any so outlandish as " I hate America"........Except those hippies in Lawrence!

Sir, I stand corrected. You are correct in saying that. I mean, WHY did Dorothy keep saying over and over "I want to go home!" 
Those red shoes. Loved that movie as a kid.

But seriously, you are also correct in saying OUTLANDISH.
I would have been more conservative and said "politically incorrect".....Ha ha
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« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2006, 06:37:01 PM »

How do you defend "I really really hate America"
There is nothing there that states WHY the poster hates America.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2006, 06:43:37 PM »

How do you defend "I really really hate America"
There is nothing there that states WHY the poster hates America.


So then why not ask him/her what they mean rather than publically mock them and suggest they be deported?
Remember when you first came to this forum? You felt that others were insulting your intelligence and threatened to leave. Why then would you insult someone else on the board? Kansas city has made some very insightful posts and contributions to this forum. No one should be wiped off because of one post- certainly not without inquiring as to what they mean by it.
All I'm suggesting is dialogue rather than mockery and ridicule....What course of action should a Christian choose in this case?
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« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2006, 06:46:23 PM »

What course of action should a Christian choose in this case?

Unless of course the State has become for them an Idol which they value and worship above Christ..........
An idol to which they are prepared to sacrifice even their fellow countrymen....
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« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2006, 06:59:04 PM »

So then why not ask him/her what they mean rather than publically mock them and suggest they be deported?
Remember when you first came to this forum? You felt that others were insulting your intelligence and threatened to leave. Why then would you insult someone else on the board? Kansas city has made some very insightful posts and contributions to this forum. No one should be wiped off because of one post- certainly not without inquiring as to what they mean by it.
All I'm suggesting is dialogue rather than mockery and ridicule....What course of action should a Christian choose in this case?

The statement was made that was political may I remind you, and not of a religous nature.
I did not insult the poster. I merely offered the poster travel options that included a tip on what he may find outside of the USA. I am not taking anything away from any of the insightful posts that Kansas City made.
This is a matter of someone who lives and benefits from living here saying they hate it here.
The reasons the poster made such a condemnation of their country based on a Mel Gobson thread is making me speculate that the poster would like to have the USA to have a offical state religion for all.
I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. But at times like this in the world when an American says that they hate their country, I as an American get upset.

Don't pretend you would not be upset if a fellow Orthodox said I hate Orthodoxy!
You would be.
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« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2006, 07:00:48 PM »

Forgiveness? Of course, but he has to change and show remorse, surely? But sadly for him I suspect there might be some groups who will not forgive.

As to hating America? One might quarrel with some domestic or foreign policy, or dislike a social trend or institution, perhaps a characteristic real or imagined of the population. But to make such a sweeping statement appears a little unreal, me thinks.

For me whatever quarrels I might have with the administration's policies or actions on this or that, there is much to be admired, liked and enjoyed about America.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2006, 07:03:33 PM »

Don't pretend you would not be upset if a fellow Orthodox said I hate Orthodoxy!
You would be.

Actually, two of them have on this forum.....and I consider both of them to be good friends. Wink
Orthodoxy is greater and broad-shouldered enough to survive criticism....
I certainly don't suggest that those who disagree with Orthodoxy should leave, nor do I sugest that they are "hippies". I ask them what they mean and dialogue with them to explain why I think they are wrong in their ideas.
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« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2006, 07:06:10 PM »

Unless of course the State has become for them an Idol which they value and worship above Christ..........
An idol to which they are prepared to sacrifice even their fellow countrymen....

Sorry, but I am not sure how you define Idol, or in this case sacrifice.
You use a lot of religious terms to define something very political and not one where religious rules apply. As a legal citizen of the USA I take pride in my country. Some do not. They are not compelled to be tortured with the life the USA provides them. They are free agents.
I am not attacking the intelligence of Kansas. I am defending a Country that is under attack from all sorts and sadly it seems also from within.
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« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2006, 07:10:07 PM »

Actually, two of them have on this forum.....and I consider both of them to be good friends. Wink
Orthodoxy is greater and broad-shouldered enough to survive criticism....

I am not opposed to being friends with Kansas. If Kansas hates this country so much I will pray for Kansas. I really did not think it was a Christian attitude to hate a Country that offords you religious freedom, but I could be wrong. Maybe Orthodox allow for hatred.
RC would say it is a sin to hate anything but evil.
Now, is the poster saying the USA is EVIL?
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« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2006, 07:10:34 PM »

I am defending a Country
No you are not Dismus.
You have said NOTHING in defense of the USA, you have merely ATTACKED one of it's detractors.
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« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2006, 07:12:03 PM »

Forgiveness? Of course, but he has to change and show remorse, surely? But sadly for him I suspect there might be some groups who will not forgive.

As to hating America? One might quarrel with some domestic or foreign policy, or dislike a social trend or institution, perhaps a characteristic real or imagined of the population. But to make such a sweeping statement appears a little unreal, me thinks.

For me whatever quarrels I might have with the administration's policies or actions on this or that, there is much to be admired, liked and enjoyed about America.

I am in the "group" that does forgive. It is required of me per my religion.
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« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2006, 07:12:19 PM »

Now, is the poster saying the USA is EVIL?

Perhaps you should have asked them before you started mocking them.....I doubt that they'd wish to answer you now. Smiley
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« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2006, 07:18:44 PM »

No you are not Dismus.
You have said NOTHING in defense of the USA, you have meely ATTACKED one of it's detractors.

Okay. I will be happy to defend what the poster wants to be clear on.
But, since they were not all I can do is state what options they have in the meantime.
If the poster does not like a percieved lack of morality in the USA, then I ask the poster to offer a solution to that.
If the poster does not like the war well, I think no one does, but again offer a better solution.
It's nice to play armchair President, but to be the President it carries a lot of responsibility.
Popes can't get order in the Church.
Orthodoxy is not exactly in perfect order either without one.
Rose colored glasses went out of style a long time ago.

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« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2006, 07:26:00 PM »

There are countries better than the United States, in terms of quality of life for the middle class.

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« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2006, 07:26:18 PM »

How's this?
I am very sorry to hear Kansas City that you Hate America as much as you do.
I realize that when I hear someone say something so strong as hate, I have to wonder why and be kind and ask what could lead someone to such an emotional response so strong. Now, I did not do that. I lost all patience and forgot that some people just hate. Sorry for my quick judgement, but I do understand the word hate to be a very strong word, so I really did not think you would be opposed to a few strong words either.
Once again, I should not have drawn any conclusions from your condemnation of the USA that you are a citizen of. I should have given you the benefit of the doubt that you had a real cause to hate the USA.
That's what happens when one jumps the gun I guess.
Sorry IF I misunderstood you.
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« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2006, 07:29:11 PM »

There are countries better than the United States, in terms of quality of life for the middle class.



I hear this often, yet no one says specifically what countries and what about them is specifically better.
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« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2006, 07:43:04 PM »


I hear this often, yet no one says specifically what countries and what about them is specifically better.

Consider Sweden. There are better middle class jobs, with better pay, better vacation time, better healthcare benefits, etc. etc. etc.
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« Reply #80 on: August 02, 2006, 08:18:57 PM »

OK. I've been quiet long enough on this thread.ÂÂ  Don't worry, I've already taken my meds today.ÂÂ  And I don't mean this to take a political tone, but my statements are the way I feel.

America is us the citizens.ÂÂ  The government is us the citizens.ÂÂ  We the people are the government and America.ÂÂ  One thing I always say when discussing what is wrong with the government is, we can blame our elected officials up to a point.ÂÂ  But we the people let them do it to us.ÂÂ  We must share some of the blame for the way things are.ÂÂ  We can vote them out of office, we can impose term limits; one term and go back and get a real job like the rest of us.ÂÂ  We can take away their lifetime salaries and medical benefits.ÂÂ  But we are the government.

And back to Mel Gibson . . . as Orthodox Christians we must forgive, and not judge no matter how hard it is.ÂÂ  What he said was wrong and he'll answer for it one day.ÂÂ  Haven't we said some stupid things HuhÂÂ  I have.ÂÂ  Enough is enough.
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« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2006, 11:19:39 PM »

Not to steer this thread away from "America, love it or leave it", BUT....I have a friend who is a truely devout person, who told me that seeing The Passion of the Christ was one of the most moving experiences she has had, outside of visiting the Holy Land.  What fascinates me is this: that someone who has the power to make art with such a spiritual component, can also be a drunken jerk, saying idiotic things.  I mean, we all fall short, all the time, and we have to keep trying.  Just another guy strugling with our fallen nature!  (Like the rest of us.)
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« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2006, 11:26:42 PM »

Not to steer this thread away from "America, love it or leave it", BUT....I have a friend who is a truely devout person, who told me that seeing The Passion of the Christ was one of the most moving experiences she has had, outside of visiting the Holy Land.ÂÂ  What fascinates me is this: that someone who has the power to make art with such a spiritual component, can also be a drunken jerk, saying idiotic things.ÂÂ  I mean, we all fall short, all the time, and we have to keep trying.ÂÂ  Just another guy strugling with our fallen nature!ÂÂ  (Like the rest of us.)

AMEN!
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« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2006, 11:43:43 PM »

hoooly mackerel!

A) There was an offer in the past few pages that offered contributions toward a ticket for me to leave the United States.  That would be greatly appreciated and let me know if you need a Paypal account or mailing address to send to. ÂÂ

B) I wasn't drinking on that last post but I have been this evening and this is amazing.  Like a huge wrapped and bowed present, just waiting for me.  I've never been so flattered.

C) Ozgeorge... stand up guy in my book. ÂÂ

D) Sorry cleveland, didnt mean to make a fuss.

Good evening.
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« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2006, 12:06:02 AM »

Well, it went into American Politics, which is a no-no.  Please, open a thread in the Politics section to talk about criticism of the US, the right to criticize and stay, or the need to leave.

Oh, and no prob KC - I just wish we could have stopped it before the gang-up.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 12:09:27 AM by cleveland » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2006, 11:15:54 AM »

Y'all can sign up for the Politics board if you haven't already and continue the America thread here.
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« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2006, 11:18:49 AM »

Y'all can sign up for the Politics board if you haven't already and continue the America thread here.
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Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
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