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Author Topic: Icons of Islam  (Read 3456 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: August 06, 2006, 12:12:35 AM »

I noticed that our Mohammedian friends made another attempt this morning at equal representation on this website; being sympathetic of their plight as a minority religion in a predominately western context I thought that it might be nice to extend an olive branch of peace by creating a thread where we could post 'Icons' that we believe represent the true Mohammedians. Here are a few of my favourites that I have come across online:

Please refrain from posting images or photos that are in any way sexually explicit; if you post them again, you'll be warned/moderated.  The other images are, while acceptable as free speech, in very bad taste, especially in the public fora. - Cleveland
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2006, 12:22:43 AM »

Ouch!
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2006, 12:30:47 AM »

Was that Turkish rap they were playing? LOL
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2006, 12:46:41 AM »

Wonder how long til this thread gets locked or deleted?
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2006, 12:52:17 AM »

Was that Turkish rap they were playing? LOL

Sounded like it. I grabbed it and saved to my HDD for fun.
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2006, 12:58:04 AM »

They had a song going, too?  Speakers were muted  Angry
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2006, 01:01:15 AM »

Was that Turkish rap they were playing? LOL

Honestly, I dont think it was as bad as alot of modern american music, though it was still far too modern for my tastes...then again, I didn't understand a word, though I presume it had some pro-islamic and anti-western music...funny how often the Mohammedians use western technology and means to get across their anti-western propaganda...somewhat hypocritical.

Wonder how long til this thread gets locked or deleted?

Oh, it's all in good fun...surely no one here is offended by anti-islamic cartoons, I suspect it will just get a few laughs. But I suspect it bothers the unenlightened and superstitious Mohammedians. But at least I didn't steal any souls in the making of this thread by taking ACTUAL photographs  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2006, 01:02:24 AM »

So no one else has any 'Icons of Islam' to share? I was really hoping to make this thread a place for intellectual exchange and conversation with our Mohammedian brethren. Grin
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2006, 01:24:57 AM »

Honestly, I dont think it was as bad as alot of modern american music, though it was still far too modern for my tastes...then again, I didn't understand a word, though I presume it had some pro-islamic and anti-western music...

GiC, boy do I have a gift for you; and Aristokles, you can save this one to your HDD and burn it to CD too:

"Islam's Not For Me" by Anonymous (I think this will be your style GiC):

http://www2.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=6961

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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2006, 01:26:55 AM »

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA...........GIC RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  LOVE IT MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2006, 01:30:57 AM »

GiC, boy do I have a gift for you; and Aristokles, you can save this one to your HDD and burn it to CD too:

"Islam's Not For Me" by Anonymous (I think this will be your style GiC):

http://www2.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=6961

LOL...I loved it, decent beat and wonderful message. I'll certainly be saving that one to my HDD Grin
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2006, 01:54:33 AM »

LOL...I loved it, decent beat and wonderful message. I'll certainly be saving that one to my HDD Grin

Yep. Already saved. Might send it Jim Quinn's radio show.  Cheesy
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2006, 02:50:26 AM »

Peace to all.

I can not find it now, but the newspaper that is linked to Opus Dei did a cartoon of the "Prophet" Muhammed (Pee be upon him) and they finally gave a half harted apology for showing him burning in hell,,, but it was gross I must say.

I can't spell worth a hoot.... but I also have one of the peadophile "Prophet" similar to the one below but--- not one to have on a Christian site if you know what I mean.

I worry about the souls of those who hack this site as Muhhamed would not be pleased that his followers have turned off potential converts to ISLAM with this evil.

Muhammed had a temper.

I hope Allah is as merciful as they claim, so no MUSLIM HACKER is going to suffer the wrath of Allah for turning someone away from the path of ISLAM.

AMEEN
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2006, 03:27:28 AM »

I worry about the souls of those who hack this site as Muhhamed would not be pleased that his followers have turned off potential converts to ISLAM with this evil.

Muhammed had a temper.

I hope Allah is as merciful as they claim, so no MUSLIM HACKER is going to suffer the wrath of Allah for turning someone away from the path of ISLAM.

Oh, I dont know if turning people off from Islam would be a problem; more often than not they'd prefer to kill us rather than convert us...but something that might get them deprived of their 72 virgins and sent straight to allah's hell is the fact that they're using this evil western technology invented by Christians...if they were true moslems they would be content riding camels, communicating with quill and parchment, and being with 9 yr old kids...just like their prophet (pbuh - paedophile begging for underaged harlots). Cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2006, 03:29:11 AM »

So some of the bums in dirty night shirts are on crusade to hack Orthodox websites... Roll Eyes I guess you could say this is their way of 'beheading' the infidels in a purely technological manner over the internet. Didn't know they had computers in their mud huts or the skills to hack websites. I could be wrong though, seeing that numerous hours of research must be done through a medium like the internet to find out how to make the most effective home made bombs. Silly me, thinking these people were still in the seventh century. Bye the way, I enjoyed the cartoons! What we need to do sometimes is mock the mockers. I hope their blood is boiling... Grin
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2006, 05:06:10 AM »

Wow...a microcosmic case-study of how holy wars start Smiley

Good times.
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2006, 05:17:13 AM »

Wow...a microcosmic case-study of how holy wars start Smiley

Good times.

Nah...the real good times are when these wars get into full swing...the talk and 'diplomacy' leading up to war is pretty boring Wink
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2006, 08:31:40 AM »

Oh, it's all in good fun...surely no one here is offended by anti-islamic cartoons

Well, actually, now that you mention it....
I really don't think cartoons are the answer. Cartoons are simply an expression of emotive stuff- they are not the stuff of reality.
The only points cartoons make are subjective emotional ones such as:
"I hate you"
"I wish to demean you"
"I wish to ridicule you"....etc.

Why would it be "fun" for a Christian to demean someone's beliefs, whether pagan or hetrodox? A Christian does not have "fun" by increasing hatred among people. A Christian exposes facts to the light.

If you want an "Islamic Icon" based on "facts" rather than emotion, have a look at this one- however, before you do, I must warn you that it is a gruesome scene. It is a photograph of Armenian Orthodox women being crucified by the Islamist "Young Turks" and Kurds during the Armenian Genocide, 1915. Was this an isolated incident? Nope. Four British citizens were tortured in Saudi Arabia and sentenced to execution by "partial beheading and crucifixion"  three years ago (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,,1797622,00.html).
These are the realities which the Islamo-fascists must be made to face- not some childish cartoon "hate mail", but rather, we need to show them these facts and say: "This is the reality of what your people have done and are doing in the name of Islam even in modern history. Islam is inhuman- it cannot possibly have come from God. Only something infernal could inspire such demonic behaviour."

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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2006, 02:10:23 PM »

Well, actually, now that you mention it....
I really don't think cartoons are the answer. Cartoons are simply an expression of emotive stuff- they are not the stuff of reality.
The only points cartoons make are subjective emotional ones such as:
"I hate you"
"I wish to demean you"
"I wish to ridicule you"....etc.

Why would it be "fun" for a Christian to demean someone's beliefs, whether pagan or hetrodox? A Christian does not have "fun" by increasing hatred among people. A Christian exposes facts to the light.

If you want an "Islamic Icon" based on "facts" rather than emotion, have a look at this one- however, before you do, I must warn you that it is a gruesome scene. It is a photograph of Armenian Orthodox women being crucified by the Islamist "Young Turks" and Kurds during the Armenian Genocide, 1915. Was this an isolated incident? Nope. Four British citizens were tortured in Saudi Arabia and sentenced to execution by "partial beheading and crucifixion"ÂÂ  three years ago (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,,1797622,00.html).
These are the realities which the Islamo-fascists must be made to face- not some childish cartoon "hate mail", but rather, we need to show them these facts and say: "This is the reality of what your people have done and are doing in the name of Islam even in modern history. Islam is inhuman- it cannot possibly have come from God. Only something infernal could inspire such demonic behaviour."

I was really hoping to keep this light and emotional, but since you've decided to introduce discussion about our discussion in this thread:

From time to time I'll grant you the higher moral posistion, but not this time. Ultimately the presentation of facts is as subjective as my rhetoric. That is not to say that the facts themselves are subjective, only that their presentation is. I can collect any number of facts to to demonstrate any posistion, be it abuses by the Mohammedians, or abuses by Christians, or abuses by Atheists, or even Abuses by the Swiss; and, depending on how I present those facts, I will evoke a different emotional response. A wonderful example is the differences between your presentation of turkish history and genocide compared to the media's presentation of turkey; the latter is far more favourable and prevents emotional outrage on the part of the west...if the facts of turkish genocide were presented on a large scale, the west would be up in arms against them.

In the end, my Cartoons and your Facts seek the same end, emotional outrage. The difference is that you seek to offend us in the west and inflame us with righteous outrage. Whereas I seek to inflame the Mohammedians by mociking their pedophile 'prophet.' The results of both actions are the same, the only difference is what group is affected.

Now, you may argue that inflaming our own people is more profitable than inflaming the Mohammedians; but I would disagree, the ultimate result of your presentation of facts, if you were able to reach everyone and influence everyone's opinion, would be a strong public demand to a) stop mohammedian oppression in general and b) avenge those who suffered under mohammedian oppression in general. However, the act of actually of informing the entire western world of these facts that reveal the truth about the islamo-fascists is nearly impossible without support from the media, which I don't see on the horizon.

Because of this difficulity, let us consider my approach, inciting the Mohammedians to anger. This is a relatively easy thing to do as they are an unenlightened and superstitious people. Just look at the publication of a few cartoons by a Danish newspaper...if we had just pushed this a little further we may have provoked an attack. But ulimately we don't even incite the entire entire islamo-fascist society to violence, if our mockery reaches even one small but motivated group, they could launch an attack single handedly. Now, if such an attack is launched one of two things can happen, either it will fail, the conspirators will have revealed themselves, and we can neutralize them, delivering a blow against more fundamentalist elements of islamo-fascist society; OR, the attack will succeed, we'll suffer a small number of casualities, BUT the public opinion that you seek to establish in the west using a slow and uncertain procedure (education) will occur overnight, the media will be raining down condemnation against the islamo-fascists, heck, they may even be willing to present, to their massive audiences, the facts you are trying to present without their help, thus advancing your cause of education. Riding on this wave of anti-mohammedian public opinion that will last a few years (the opinion of the mob is a fickle thing, after a year or two they forget about the bigger issues and are only concerned about their personal well-being again, and, thus, need to be stirred up by another significant and well publicized event) we can actually do some good to undermind the rule of the islamo-fascists. Unfortunately this last opportunity we had was partially wasted by attacking a secular nation (Iraq) instead of one of their more religious neighbours (but at least we got rid of the Taliban). And, honestly speaking, what in the last 10 years has been more benificial to your cause of educating the west about the islamo-fascists than the specials that came out following the US attack on Afganistan on the Taliban and their oppression of Minorities and Women (at least I presume, and sincerely hope, you got a few of those specials down under; but I can say with certainty that they did wonders for the education of the American Populace about the true Islam, a religion of oppression).

So while I really didn't want to go here in this thread -- I was hoping to start and ride a wave of emotionalism -- there is even cold logical calculation behind my emotionalism. Grin And while it may be a bit underhanded and, shall we say, byzantine, on the most fundamental levels my actions are no different than your attempt to educate people...the results of success would be the same, I simply believe my methods to be more likely to succeed. You must reach hundreds of millions, I only have to reach one person.
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2006, 02:47:31 PM »

As Christians shouldn't we be loving our enemies, praying for them, trying to show them the love of Christ, rather than making fun of them?  I don't think any of us would like seeing cartoons making fun of Christ.  And just because there have been cartoons making fun of Christ doesn't give us the right to do the same to other groups, we're supposed to turn the other cheek and treat others as we would like to be treated, regardless of how they cheat us.  I'm all for discussing facts openly, and not trying to gloss over our disagreements with false ecuminism... but making fun of another religion is not appropriate for Christians.
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2006, 02:51:46 PM »

The difference is that you seek to offend us in the west and inflame us with righteous outrage. Whereas I seek to inflame the Mohammedians by mociking their pedophile 'prophet.' The results of both actions are the same, the only difference is what group is affected.

Well, actually George said,"These are the realities which the Islamo-fascists must be made to face- not some childish cartoon "hate mail", but rather, we need to show them these facts."  Same audience, different tactic.

That having been said, I disagree with George's idea that showing Muslims this will change their mind.  Their jihadist minds are so twisted that images like the one George linked to will only serve to spur them on even more in their violence; it will in no way shock or horrify these people.
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« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2006, 03:36:41 PM »

Well, actually, now that you mention it....
I really don't think cartoons are the answer. Cartoons are simply an expression of emotive stuff- they are not the stuff of reality.
The only points cartoons make are subjective emotional ones such as:
"I hate you"
"I wish to demean you"
"I wish to ridicule you"....etc.

Why would it be "fun" for a Christian to demean someone's beliefs, whether pagan or hetrodox? A Christian does not have "fun" by increasing hatred among people. A Christian exposes facts to the light.

If you want an "Islamic Icon" based on "facts" rather than emotion, have a look at this one- however, before you do, I must warn you that it is a gruesome scene. It is a photograph of Armenian Orthodox women being crucified by the Islamist "Young Turks" and Kurds during the Armenian Genocide, 1915. Was this an isolated incident? Nope. Four British citizens were tortured in Saudi Arabia and sentenced to execution by "partial beheading and crucifixion"ÂÂ  three years ago (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,,1797622,00.html).
These are the realities which the Islamo-fascists must be made to face- not some childish cartoon "hate mail", but rather, we need to show them these facts and say: "This is the reality of what your people have done and are doing in the name of Islam even in modern history. Islam is inhuman- it cannot possibly have come from God. Only something infernal could inspire such demonic behaviour."




Now that I just cleaned up after puking my guts out after looking at the links (thanks for the warning but I had no idea!)
I have a weak stomach when it comes to merciless barbaric heathens...

They feel that Muhammed and now they his followers are ENFORCING the Laws Christ never was able to, and that is why they needed Muhammed.
So bizzare.
I am at a loss as to how they deny the crucifiction. I know, another digression that warrants another post entirely.
Does anyone here know enough about Islam and has the inclination to start one?
I want to learn about Islam through the Christian viewpoint and compare to theirs.
Personally I feel compelled to know as much as I can about that religion as it is one that has been such a force to contend with.
Sorry for the digression, but I am still green from ozgeorge's links.....
Always learn something new here though.
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« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2006, 04:18:55 PM »

As Christians shouldn't we be loving our enemies, praying for them, trying to show them the love of Christ, rather than making fun of them?ÂÂ  I don't think any of us would like seeing cartoons making fun of Christ.ÂÂ  And just because there have been cartoons making fun of Christ doesn't give us the right to do the same to other groups, we're supposed to turn the other cheek and treat others as we would like to be treated, regardless of how they cheat us.ÂÂ  I'm all for discussing facts openly, and not trying to gloss over our disagreements with false ecuminism... but making fun of another religion is not appropriate for Christians.

Actually, if you want to make anti-Christian cartoons, fine, I believe that is your God-given Right...and I'd even be willing to give my life to protect that right. Heck, if it's actually a good cartoon, no matter how offensive, I might even laugh. I often get a good chuckle out of political cartoons, even if they express an ideal I vehemently oppose. But that's the difference between us and them...we're willing to give our lives to protect their right to make fun of our religion, they want to kill us when we make fun of theirs. One should learn to not take rhetoric too seriously.

As far as not making fun of their so-called 'religion' (really an anti-western, politically motivated, militant cult) why not? You don't honestly expect me to take the materialistic, lust-filled, xenophobic B.S. you find in their Quran or their pedophile 'prophet' seriously do you? The reason the symbols and so-called 'religion' of the mohammedians are mocked is because no honest and objective person could possibly take them seriously. They are mocked because they are worthy of nothing more.

Or do you believe that Mohammedianism is worthy of being placed on the same level as Christianity and seriously considered as a viable system of belief?
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« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2006, 04:21:44 PM »

Well, actually George said,"These are the realities which the Islamo-fascists must be made to face- not some childish cartoon "hate mail", but rather, we need to show them these facts."ÂÂ  Same audience, different tactic.

So George, are you saying that we should not try to educate western audiences about the atrocities of the Mohammedians?

Quote
That having been said, I disagree with George's idea that showing Muslims this will change their mind.  Their jihadist minds are so twisted that images like the one George linked to will only serve to spur them on even more in their violence; it will in no way shock or horrify these people.

So you're saying that the actual effects of my tactic and george's is the same, to drive the Mohammedians to violence? (Not that that's a difficult thing to do Wink )
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2006, 05:29:20 PM »

As far as not making fun of their so-called 'religion' (really an anti-western, politically motivated, militant cult) why not? You don't honestly expect me to take the materialistic, lust-filled, xenophobic B.S. you find in their Quran or their pedophile 'prophet' seriously do you? The reason the symbols and so-called 'religion' of the mohammedians are mocked is because no honest and objective person could possibly take them seriously. They are mocked because they are worthy of nothing more.

Or do you believe that Mohammedianism is worthy of being placed on the same level as Christianity and seriously considered as a viable system of belief?

Our Lord taught us to pray for those assailed by afflictions of the soul, and He healed many with love and humility. He didn't stand there and say "Haha, look at the crazy people possessed by demons." I agree that Mohammedan beliefs are atrocious, but laughing at something out of derision is one of the least-Christian actions possible.
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« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2006, 05:35:28 PM »

Who does Jesus mean when He said us to love another as you love yourself?

Some years ago there was a country (orthodox i guess) who killed many muslims to become a completely orthodox christian country.

And you wonder why some of them hate us!?
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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2006, 05:43:02 PM »

Our Lord taught us to pray for those assailed by afflictions of the soul, and He healed many with love and humility. He didn't stand there and say "Haha, look at the crazy people possessed by demons." I agree that Mohammedan beliefs are atrocious, but laughing at something out of derision is one of the least-Christian actions possible.

Oh no, you're not letting them off the hook that easily. These are not men posessed by demons, but men who knowingly and of their own free will choose to oppose God and align themselves with the demons. I am not mocking men who are possessed and forced to accept a demonic doctrine against their will...but I am mocking men who knowingly chose to oppose God, by their own free will, and align themselves with the forces of evil.
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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2006, 05:43:56 PM »

Who does Jesus mean when He said us to love another as you love yourself?

Some years ago there was a country (orthodox i guess) who killed many muslims to become a completely orthodox christian country.

And you wonder why some of them hate us!?

So we hate them and they hate us...why not just have one great war to settle the issue once and for all?
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« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2006, 05:50:44 PM »

And end up in the same hell again ...
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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2006, 06:56:39 PM »

And end up in the same hell again ...

And where has a policy of appeasement gotten us? What line must the the Mohammedians cross before you believe a war and a solution to the islamic problem is warrented? They Conquered Persia, they Conquered the Eastern Provinces of the Empire, they Conquered North Africa, they Conquered Spain, they Conquered Asia Minor, they Conquered Greece, they Conquered the Balkans, the Conquered the Holy City itself, they Destroyed the Empire, they Advanced to the very gates of Vienna. At their hands millions, tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of Christians, Hindus, Jews, and and Secular men, women, and children have been murdered in cold blood. Today they incite violence in the cities of Western Europe, occupy part of Cyprus and launch terrorist attacks murdering men, women, and children in not only the United States but also in Orthodox Russia. Even within their own societies, the majority of the population, including nearly all women and the vast majority of ethnic and religious minorities, even those who are members of other islamic sects, are oppressed and persecuted. The majority of the people who live in their societies suffer an existance that is not even worth living, an existence devoid of freedom.

Please tell me, what line must the Mohammedians cross before you are willing to abandon your policy of appeasement??? Do they have to start taking over sections of American Cities? Or would you surrender our cities to them? Do they have to begin to exersize their barbaric 'law' within our country? Or would you say that they are free to oppress members of their own community? How about when they try to beheaded or stone your children? Is that what it would take? Do you have to be PERSONALLY affected??? Frankly I think the time for appeasement has long passed, I think that it had long passed about 1300 years ago. Now is the time to defend ourselves and our posterity by solving, once and for all, the Islamic problem.
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« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2006, 08:19:47 PM »

Salaam,

I am deeply saddened by the rudeness and hardness that I have found in this community. Truly Isa would be ashamed of many of you.

Wa'alaikum'salaam
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« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2006, 08:39:32 PM »

Salaam,

I am deeply saddened by the rudeness and hardness that I have found in this community. Truly Isa would be ashamed of many of you.

Wa'alaikum'salaam

Dear Mumin,
Please read my apology to you on the invitation to Mumin post!
I am truly sorry.

Peace!
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2006, 12:57:33 AM »

So we hate them and they hate us...why not just have one great war to settle the issue once and for all?

OK!!!   I'll activate the Smiley Defense Forces!!

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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2006, 01:53:33 AM »

OK!!!  ÃƒÆ’‚ I'll activate the Smiley Defense Forces!!

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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2006, 02:13:49 AM »

In the end, my Cartoons and your Facts seek the same end, emotional outrage.
Nope, there is a big difference. I can show my facts to a muslim and ask for answers, and explain that "this is why I feel how I feel". You can only show them your cartoons and say "this is how I feel towards you, and I don't have to explain why."

And this is the very problem we face in the world today. Young muslims see themselves treated with hatred, and they just think it's baseless, xenophobic hatred- and so the spiral of hatred and violence continues. I have no problem if someone chooses to hate me, or be angry with me, but I think that I deserve an explanation as to why before they abuse me. It's OK to tell someone you are angry with what they believe in, but you have to explain why. Otherwise, you are just an ignorant xenophobe loser who needs to get of the internet and spend more time getting out, travelling and meeting different people. If all I see is your anger (as in the cartoons) with no explanation as to why you are angry, then I would be quite right to consider you an abuser, violent, unkind, a snob, probably a WASP, uneducated, unsophisticated, and above all, a stupid coward hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. This is not the opinion I have of you GiC, I know you are better than that, so why are you choosing to behave in this fashion?
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« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2006, 02:23:41 AM »

So George, are you saying that we should not try to educate western audiences about the atrocities of the Mohammedians?

Do you think all westerners are such imbeciles that the only way you can "educate" them is through propaganda cartoons?
These cartoons are more of an insult to non-muslim intelligence than to Islam.
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« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2006, 02:38:45 AM »

Nope, there is a big difference. I can show my facts to a muslim and ask for answers, and explain that "this is why I feel how I feel". You can only show them your cartoons and say "this is how I feel towards you, and I don't have to explain why."

And this is the very problem we face in the world today. Young muslims see themselves treated with hatred, and they just think it's baseless, xenophobic hatred- and so the spiral of hatred and violence continues. I have no problem if someone chooses to hate me, or be angry with me, but I think that I deserve an explanation as to why before they abuse me. It's OK to tell someone you are angry with what they believe in, but you have to explain why. Otherwise, you are just an ignorant xenophobe loser who needs to get of the internet and spend more time getting out, travelling and meeting different people. If all I see is your anger (as in the cartoons) with no explanation as to why you are angry, then I would be quite right to consider you an abuser, violent, unkind, a snob, probably a WASP, uneducated, unsophisticated, and above all, a stupid coward hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. This is not the opinion I have of you GiC, I know you are better than that, so why are you choosing to behave in this fashion?

After the last 1400 years I didn't think I really needed to explain why I disliked the Mohammedians, I would assume that the reasoning is self-evident. However, in my post #29 I did explain it to some extent, though I only covered the tip of the iceberg. I am now to the point where I am pirmarially concerned with a solution to the problem at hand.

Concerning the accusation of xenophobe (not that you're accusing me of it, but addressing the accusation in general), something that I may not have mentioned in this thread, but have certainly mentioned on this board in previous threads, is that I am not seeking to simply convert the Moslems to Christianity and make them just like us (though it would be great if they converted to Islam). I would be content for them to be Atheists, or Jews, or Hindus, or Buddhists, etc. I am tolerant of almost every religion and people, but Islam has simply proven itself to be intolerable and unacceptable throughout the last 1400 years and, accordingly, is the one exception to my tolerance.

But as I mentioned above, after 1400 years of violence and suffering at the hands of Islam, it should not surprise anyone that explanations and dialogue are of less concern than the correcting of the situation; everyone should know the reasons by now. Furthermore, I am skeptical that your explinations will elicit any sympathy or change from the Mohammedians...I really think that after 1400 years the situation has moved beyond that, it is far more serious than what can be fixed by mere words.
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« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2006, 02:40:24 AM »

That having been said, I disagree with George's idea that showing Muslims this will change their mind.  Their jihadist minds are so twisted that images like the one George linked to will only serve to spur them on even more in their violence; it will in no way shock or horrify these people.

Don't knock it until you try it! I have, and it does!
You don't have to start with the "jihadists", you start with those who have not yet seared their consciences. To say that "no muslim" would be shocked or horrified to learn of their history is to deny that the Image of God is contained within all men. We have nothing in common with muslims when it comes to religion, so we must find some other common ground, and the next level of common ground is our humanity.
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« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2006, 02:42:13 AM »

Do you think all westerners are such imbeciles that the only way you can "educate" them is through propaganda cartoons?
These cartoons are more of an insult to non-muslim intelligence than to Islam.

I have a very low opinion of the mob and their opinion, which is probably why I have come to appreciate the art of propaganda. But this is not only true of the western mobs, it is a constant that transcends culture and society...propaganda is ultimately the best way to make the masses follow the path you desire.
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« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2006, 02:49:04 AM »

After the last 1400 years I didn't think I really needed to explain why I disliked the Mohammedians, I would assume that the reasoning is self-evident.

That's where you are wrong. In my travels in Turkey, Bahrain and Indonesia, I met many young Muslims. Some of the most polite and helpful and hospitable were those young Muslims in Turkey. I got to know a few of them, and there was one thing in common- not one of them knew that there were ever Armenians, Greeks and Syrians in Turkey. Not one of them knew about the so-called "Population Exchange". People can only know what they are taught, and it is simply not in the Turkish governments interest that they should be taught therse "unpleasantries"- and not only in Turkey, but in the USA as well where huge endowments from the Turkish Government to US Universities ensures that the genocides do not enter the curriculum.
So although the reasons may be "self-evident" to you, they are not self-evident to those who have been taught by those seeking to repress truth.
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« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2006, 02:51:55 AM »

I have a very low opinion of the mob and their opinion, which is probably why I have come to appreciate the art of propaganda. But this is not only true of the western mobs, it is a constant that transcends culture and society...propaganda is ultimately the best way to make the masses follow the path you desire.

Oh well, it's worked for every fascist totalitarian and oppressive dictatorship, so I guess an Orthodox Seminarian is no different..... Wink
Come on GiC- you are better than that. At the very least, you have been called to be better than that.
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« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2006, 02:53:34 AM »

Oh well, it's worked for every fascist totalitarian and oppressive dictatorship, so I guess an Orthodox Seminarian is no different..... Wink
Come on GiC- you are better than that. At the very least, you have been called to be better than that.

Hey, don't forget that Joseph Stalin was once an Orthodox Seminarian Wink
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« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2006, 03:01:41 AM »

Hey, don't forget that Joseph Stalin was once an Orthodox Seminarian Wink

Yeah..."once". Wink

I'm off for some night skiing now, but if I come back and find out that all this was just another one of your experiments with rhetorical techniques, I'll get on the next plane to the States and personally pay you a visit to break your fingers. Cheesy
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« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2006, 07:42:53 AM »

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« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2006, 09:21:39 AM »

The cartoons were in bad taste, and unacceptable in the public fora - especially the one that was sexual.  If y'all want to continue the debate about how to persuade "islamo-facists" or stir the public, please do in a new thread, and do so without the images.
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