Author Topic: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?  (Read 16490 times)

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Offline Fr. David

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2006, 09:44:08 AM »
CORRECTIVE POST: TOPIC REMERGED. 

My personal apologies to all offended parties.

After looking at all the posts in context (which was not done prior to split), I honestly don't think there's anything to split.  Zebu made some inaccurate comments re: the OO communion, and EA and others corrected him; if he (zebu) is going to have reasons for choosing EO over OO, they need to be accurate ones.  And, in the midst of the accuracy of terms and intercommunion discussion, there were actually individual posts (iirc) that dealt with the OP.  So I agree w/EA here, really, y'all.  Embarrassing for me, I know, since I did all that out of ignorance.  I'm gonna make this call as GM to remerge it and leave it alone, continuing the thread as it was.  Again, I apologize for splitting what didn't need to be split; let's bring all this back to the OP now that terms have been/are being clarified.

Sorry, y'all.
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Offline Fr. David

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2006, 09:48:53 AM »
Like other posters here, I became EO because there were EO parishes around.  I personally like the Council of Chalcedon, so I'm pretty comfortable as an EO.  But, I don't think the OO's mean to say anything re: christology that the EO's don't also mean to say (and vice versa), so attending an OO parish would pose no problem for me.

Intercommunion is out until our hierarchs get back together--which is a necessary formality.  In my book, we (EO and OO) have already attained unity of faith.  Now we just need to recognize it formally.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 09:49:34 AM by Pedro »
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Offline FrChris

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2006, 09:52:23 AM »

Intercommunion is out until our hierarchs get back together--which is a necessary formality.ÂÂ  In my book, we (EO and OO) have already attained unity of faith.ÂÂ  Now we just need to recognize it formally.

Indeed! The situation reminds me of when you're about to buy a house (at least, here in the US): both you and the seller have agreed upon the price and all other external details, but there is still a gap of time until you have a closing date, sign the papers, and get the keys.
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Offline EkhristosAnesti

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2006, 10:05:53 AM »
Pedro,

I appreciate your re-consideration to splitting/moving this thread. I'll be the first to admit that i've shamefully erred with respect to my approach and attitude to the issues in question on many occasions in the past such as to warrant my posts/threads being moderated, but I have sincerely attempted to rectify that approach/attitude for quite some time now. I thank you for your understanding on this occasion and apologise to you and all other moderators/administrators involved if I reacted inappropriately.
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Offline Dismus

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2006, 12:18:57 PM »
Why not convert to OO?

All I can come up with is I like Greek food better.
And food is important.

Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2006, 01:47:01 PM »
Why not convert to OO?

All I can come up with is I like Greek food better.
And food is important.

If you haven't tried Indian and Ethiopian food, then you haven't made an informed decision. Muy deliciosos!
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Offline FrChris

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2006, 01:55:35 PM »
If you haven't tried Indian and Ethiopian food, then you haven't made an informed decision.

While I agree that Ethiopian and Indian food is great, I would hardly consider you as a 'paragon of informed decision making', Matthew.  ::)
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Offline StBrigid

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2006, 11:36:46 AM »
I ended up in the Coptic church mostly because my fiance' was already there.  He ended up there because a) it was in the neighborhood, b) it was Orthodox, and c) the Copts were warm and friendly.  It was a little more involved than that, but basically that's it.

As I was investigating Orthodoxy, like most converts I was learning from the Antiochians and visiting one of their parishes as well as my then-boyfriend's.  As others have said, I could have happily gone either way.

As for "why not the OO," I think the question itself reveals that the EO won the propaganda wars.  :)  Not to downplay the substance of Chalcedon and what came after, but a lot of what came after was politics and posturing.  There's still some of that today, and it does tend to cloud the real issues.  (Lord, have mercy on us.)  So I imagine for the inquirer who's just starting out and not too certain about things, the EO seems a safer bet.

Offline Elisha

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2006, 12:12:54 PM »
As for "why not the OO," I think the question itself reveals that the EO won the propaganda wars.

Kinda...but I had never heard of OO Churches until a few years ago.  Also, it seems like only the past several years that many EO and OO seem to agree on the Christological issues.

Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2006, 01:35:53 AM »
While I agree that Ethiopian and Indian food is great, I would hardly consider you as a 'paragon of informed decision making', Matthew.ÂÂ  ::)

I am when it comes to good food, my friend. :)
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Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2006, 01:37:49 AM »
It's quite possible that many converts to Oriental Orthodoxy from Protestantism or Catholicism still believe in Chalcedon, maybe without even knowing it.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2006, 02:00:59 AM »
It's quite possible that many converts to Oriental Orthodoxy from Protestantism or Catholicism still believe in Chalcedon, maybe without even knowing it.

That doesn't make any sense.  I'm sure many Prots/Catholics have no idea what Chalcedon is.

Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2006, 02:16:54 AM »
That doesn't make any sense.ÂÂ  I'm sure many Prots/Catholics have no idea what Chalcedon is.

But they still believe, unlike the non-Chalcedonians, that Jesus is two natures united in one person. Even in converting to Oriental Orthodoxy, many will still hold to their previous Christological position.
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Offline StBrigid

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2006, 06:59:14 PM »
Kinda...but I had never heard of OO Churches until a few years ago.ÂÂ  Also, it seems like only the past several years that many EO and OO seem to agree on the Christological issues.
And your first phrase proves my point.  :)

It is in the past 20 years or so that the churches have come to realize that they always have essentially agreed on christology.  It doesn't represent "new christology" for either side, but a different historical understanding.

Offline StBrigid

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2006, 07:08:20 PM »
It's quite possible that many converts to Oriental Orthodoxy from Protestantism or Catholicism still believe in Chalcedon, maybe without even knowing it.
This is possible for those who are converting simply to marry an OO person, but otherwise I would find it highly unlikely.ÂÂ  As with all converts, we are catechized, and it can scarcely escape the notice of a person that we are in communion with other OO churches but not EO.ÂÂ  I have talked to cradles in our parish who didn't know it, but converts are more likely to be aware of the differences and of what caused them.

Of the converts in our parish, a couple of us converted to Orthodoxy and chose the Coptic Church for practical reasons (considering it essentially the same as EO), a couple converted specifically to Oriental Orthodoxy because of the Chalcedon issues, and the rest converted from various backgrounds in order to marry cradles.

BTW, your sentence rather awkwardly assumes that EO still "believe in Chalcedon."ÂÂ  They do, but only with the anti-Nestorian clarifications that came in later councils, which arguably brought the EO closer to the same position the OO held all along.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 07:13:08 PM by StBrigid »

Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2006, 12:58:13 AM »
BTW, your sentence rather awkwardly assumes that EO still "believe in Chalcedon."ÂÂ  They do, but only with the anti-Nestorian clarifications that came in later councils, which arguably brought the EO closer to the same position the OO held all along.

Where is there Nestorianism in the Confession of Chalcedon? It looks like a middleground between Nestorianism and monophysitism to me.

Quote
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood;

truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body;

consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood;

in all things like unto us, without sin;

begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood;

one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably;

the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ;

as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 01:00:15 AM by Matthew777 »
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2006, 03:11:40 AM »
Matthew, please read Fr. V.C. Samuel's book, The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined.  In spite of its size, it is actually an interesting, quick read.  It can't hurt, and I think you'll enjoy it.  It will give you more insight into the issues surrounding Chalcedon.  You can find it on amazon.com.



Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2006, 07:02:27 AM »
Yes, that is something that I could consider. But what of the Chalcedonian Confession itself is there for which to have disagreement? If you'd rather PM me on the topic, that's fine.

Peace.
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Offline EkhristosAnesti

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2006, 07:57:15 AM »
Matthew,

This thread already came close to being moved due to certain exchanges being misinterpreted as discussion of the sort that you are attempting to induce here. I recommend you take Salpy's advice; Fr. V.C. Samuel's book has the answer to all your questions - it's a rather thorough treatment of the general subject.
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Offline TaiKamiya720

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2017, 12:03:08 PM »
I've considered the OO once before, like over a year ago, when I just left Catholicism to join Orthodoxy. I was choosing between Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox. That time, I took Eastern Orthodox because I thought the OO were monophysites.
Now, an Oriental Orthodox told me that the belief in Miaphysitism is pretty much the same as the Dyphothism believed in Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox Churches. So I've started to reconsider the Oriental Orthodox because the OO has never had a theocracy, while the EO has. During the Byzantine period, the Byzantine Empire, under EO and Roman Catholic, persecuted the OO over Chalcedon. Today in Russia, where Putin favors the Russian Orthodox Church, a law passed that cracked down on evangelism for other religions besides Eastern Orthodoxy.  http://marketmadhouse.com/is-russia-a-theocracy/
Also, I've never heard of an Oriental Orthodox Church accepting abortion like the Patriarch of Constantinople did.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:04:19 PM by TaiKamiya720 »

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2017, 12:12:15 PM »
Do Armenian Apostolic Church accepts convert? Because I think Armenian Apostolic Church always link to Armenian National Identity. 

I had saw one video that White British DJ converted to Ethiopian Orthodox Church. However, he learned perfect Ethiopian Language and integrated into Ethiopian culture.

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2017, 12:13:33 PM »
Do Armenian Apostolic Church accepts convert? Because I think Armenian Apostolic Church always link to Armenian National Identity. 

I had saw one video that White British DJ converted to Ethiopian Orthodox Church. However, he learned perfect Ethiopian Language and integrated into Ethiopian culture.

Is there any canonical Orthodox church that consistently refuses to baptize inquirers?
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Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2017, 12:34:52 PM »
Do Armenian Apostolic Church accepts convert? Because I think Armenian Apostolic Church always link to Armenian National Identity. 

I had saw one video that White British DJ converted to Ethiopian Orthodox Church. However, he learned perfect Ethiopian Language and integrated into Ethiopian culture.

Is there any canonical Orthodox church that consistently refuses to baptize inquirers?

Ok. So all the canonical Orthodox Church will accept converts???
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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2017, 12:48:35 PM »
Do Armenian Apostolic Church accepts convert? Because I think Armenian Apostolic Church always link to Armenian National Identity. 

I had saw one video that White British DJ converted to Ethiopian Orthodox Church. However, he learned perfect Ethiopian Language and integrated into Ethiopian culture.

Is there any canonical Orthodox church that consistently refuses to baptize inquirers?

Ok. So all the canonical Orthodox Church will accept converts???

Yes.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2017, 01:40:06 PM »
Do Armenian Apostolic Church accepts convert?

Yes.
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Offline recent convert

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2017, 06:55:45 PM »
I think either OO  EO is a good choice but discern carefully and remain with which you choose.
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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2017, 07:08:03 PM »
I have seriously considered and prayed about it for a very long time. I find the Oriental tradition, in all its forms, to be very beautiful and holy. From the Oriental Orthodox that post here who I have spoken with publicly or privately, they are perhaps the kindest, loving, merciful and considerate people I know. They are true witnesses of Christ. However as much as I love them, am extremely sympathetic to their Christology, and agonized over which tradition years ago, God has led me into Eastern Orthodoxy where I'm finally home.
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2017, 07:08:06 PM »
I think either OO  EO is a good choice but discern carefully and remain with which you choose.
Good advice to heed.  I am so sick on converts on the internet switching from Church to Church.

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2017, 07:14:40 PM »
I think either OO  EO is a good choice but discern carefully and remain with which you choose.
Good advice to heed.  I am so sick on converts on the internet switching from Church to Church.

Gentle reminder: they too are sick.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2017, 07:23:24 PM »
I think either OO  EO is a good choice but discern carefully and remain with which you choose.
Good advice to heed.  I am so sick on converts on the internet switching from Church to Church.

Certainly many of us are familiar with the stereotype of a new convert who jumps from church to church the more he learns (usually involving learning how wrong his current church is).  In some cases, it deserves to be called out.  But I would hesitate to lump all "converts on the internet" who have made more than one switch into the same category. 

"Discern carefully and remain with which you choose" is good advice, but I wonder how universally applicable it is.  In the end, you're still making that choice from the outside a church.  Once you're inside, your experience is different.  Would you bar everyone from making a change if they came to feel that maybe they didn't discern carefully enough, or that they couldn't possibly have known enough to make a choice without taking a chance on one or the other first and living the faith from the inside? 
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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2017, 07:34:38 PM »
Convenience, it's hard enough being Byzantine Orthodox. More importantly, I think the culture, history, and tradition is just too out of reach for me. Coptic Orthodoxy is too Egyptian, Syriac Orthodoxy is Syrian, etc. etc. but Byzantine Orthodoxy is a civilizational culture, i.e., in the sense of the Roman Empire, it's not merely a regional or ethnic culture, which is why it's easier to adapt to, or why I believe it is so.

As someone who has knowledge of Greek, having a Divine Liturgy in Greek is culturally more adaptable to me than Coptic or Syriac in the liturgy, not that I have a problem with Syriac. I do have some problems with Coptic. In any case, it's good to be able to follow the prayers and chant them, and with Syriac and Coptic, I am not able to do so.

Also, I think there's some good Pastoral reasons why I am not Oriental Orthodox. The priest, presumably, speaks Arabic as a first language. It's a far second, for me. So, for say, confession or for spiritual advice, it would be much harder for me to seek advice. Furthermore, while I am not necessarily "for" the "Americanization of Orthodoxy", I recognize that outsiders are far more welcome, at least culturally and linguistically, in the Byzantine Church than in the Coptic or Ethiopian Church. I don't know about Armenians or Syriac Orthodox enough to speculate on them.

I don't have any theological reasons, I've tried to make sense of the theology, and I have no intention of trying to figure that out anymore.

My two cents. I won't dissuade anyone who wants to convert to the Oriental communion from doing so. Likewise with the Byzantine communion. It's not really my business.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 07:37:06 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2017, 07:43:35 PM »
Convenience, it's hard enough being Byzantine Orthodox. More importantly, I think the culture, history, and tradition is just too out of reach for me. Coptic Orthodoxy is too Egyptian, Syriac Orthodoxy is Syrian, etc. etc. but Byzantine Orthodoxy is a civilizational culture, i.e., in the sense of the Roman Empire, it's not merely a regional or ethnic culture, which is why it's easier to adapt to, or why I believe it is so.

From the vantage point of "Orthodox Church in America", this may make sense, but let me assure you as an OO Indian who has gotten around a lot that "Greek Orthodoxy is too Greek, Russian Orthodoxy is too Russian, etc.", despite a common rite. 

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Also, I think there's some good Pastoral reasons why I am not Oriental Orthodox. The priest, presumably, speaks Arabic as a first language. It's a far second, for me. So, for say, confession or for spiritual advice, it would be much harder for me to seek advice. Furthermore, while I am not necessarily "for" the "Americanization of Orthodoxy", I recognize that outsiders are far more welcome, at least culturally and linguistically, in the Byzantine Church than in the Coptic or Ethiopian Church. I don't know about Armenians or Syriac Orthodox enough to speculate on them.

Again, from the vantage point of an American in an OCA parish, I'm sure it looks that way.   
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2017, 07:49:00 PM »
I always say that Antiochian Orthodoxy and Coptic Orthodoxy have brought me to the faith of my fathers. That's quite strange, that they have not been neither Serbian nor Polish Orthodoxy.

I remember being at Coptic Liturgies and in churches in Egypt 9 years ago (so it was time, that I was Orthodox only "in heart" and because of my mixed family accustomed to many Orthoodx things) - I felt completly at home. And that time I didn't know Arabic at all - I was only able to differentiate Arabic letters. I'm aware that Coptic Orthodoxy is so Egyptian, Armenian so Armenian etc. and it's quite paradoxical, if you see the history and reasons of the chalcedonian schism, as that time Byzantine Orthoodxy was too much ethnical. Anyway, OOs, especially Coptic congregations, do some missions and receive some converts.
I also remember my statement made about 11 years ago, that if there had been a Coptic parish, I would have converted to Orthodoxy immediately. When I heard a Coptic chant first time in my life, I felt "that's what I was looking for!". I found this community "the most ancient" and "the most true Christian". Now I'm most perfect with Byzantine rite (but not in the current Polish version) and I'm strongly keen on "Pan-Orthodoxy". So, I don't differentiate actually between EOs and OOs.

If I lived in a place that an EO church would be placed quite enough far from my home, and an OO church was closer, I would be attending the OO parish. But, since it's not the case, as there are just a few OOs communities (and, actually, no regular parishes), I just sometimes read, listen to and watch OO materials and share them with Poles, also on cerkiew.pl (the biggest Polish Orthodox website) and my personal blog.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2017, 08:44:15 PM »
Well, I came into knowledge of Orthodoxy, separate from Catholicism, via the Coptic Church. Incidentally, I learned of the Melkite Church and Maronites much sooner than the Coptic Orthodox. And my sentiments are a bit different, I don't think I'd have minded Coptic chant, but Greek in the liturgy is more appealing to me personally. I also like the solemn way that Byzantine and Russian chant is conducted. I think Coptic chant is very "invocative" in it's style than "solemn." Like they're calling upon God, rather than singing to God. It's how I perceive the aesthetic difference. But debating aesthetics is pointless. Also, I neglected to mention the theology of our Church compared to the Coptic communion. In our communion, there is an identifiable continuity that exists from, Modern saints to the saints of the post-Chalcedonian and pre-Chalcedonian periods, with the theology, canons, hymnography, iconography etc. intact in a way that I just don't see in the Coptic etc. communion. In that sense, I'd say that they *really* are still stuck in the 5th century. We might have a lot of accruements from the ancient world, but they still have the mindset of the ancient world, and have few role models, saints, fathers etc. who are more modern. Just my observation, I know it's not entirely accurate, there are a few saints in the Indian and Coptic communities particularly who are more modern, but I'm speaking on how I perceive the differences.

I guess I would summarize this sort of perception in the following way, the Byzantine Church is an identifiable part of history and moves with and alongside history. The Coptic Church, the Jacobites and Armenians are mentioned in certain periods, but they don't really play the same kind of role. I don't know if that's considered as a criticism or merely as observation. Take it however you please, I suppose.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 08:49:11 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2017, 08:54:57 PM »
Also, I neglected to mention the theology of our Church compared to the Coptic communion. In our communion, there is an identifiable continuity that exists from, Modern saints to the saints of the post-Chalcedonian and pre-Chalcedonian periods, with the theology, canons, hymnography, iconography etc. intact in a way that I just don't see in the Coptic etc. communion. In that sense, I'd say that they *really* are still stuck in the 5th century. We might have a lot of accruements from the ancient world, but they still have the mindset of the ancient world, and have few role models, saints, fathers etc. who are more modern. Just my observation, I know it's not entirely accurate, there are a few saints in the Indian and Coptic communities particularly who are more modern, but I'm speaking on how I perceive the differences.

To the extent that this is true (and not, for example, a reflection of your own gaps in knowledge), I think this is actually an asset. 
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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #80 on: July 17, 2017, 09:04:55 PM »
This is a thread for the Protestants and Catholics who have converted to the Eastern Orthodox Church. What compelled you to choose the Byzantine Church over Oriental Orthodoxy? Was there anything specifically about EO that attracted you, or were you afraid that OO might be monophysite?
Among other reasons, the nearest Orthodox churches within an hour were EO.
And the Russian, Greek, Antiochian, and Jerusalemite Churches are EO, and those are the main ones I think of for the Eastern Christian Tradition, even though it's true that the Syriac OO and Coptic Churches are very important among Eastern Christians.

Over the years as I learned more about EO theology, I began and continued to grow in it.
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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2017, 09:12:20 PM »
I've considered the OO once before, like over a year ago, when I just left Catholicism to join Orthodoxy. I was choosing between Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox. That time, I took Eastern Orthodox because I thought the OO were monophysites.
Now, an Oriental Orthodox told me that the belief in Miaphysitism is pretty much the same as the Dyphothism believed in Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox Churches. So I've started to reconsider the Oriental Orthodox because the OO has never had a theocracy, while the EO has. During the Byzantine period, the Byzantine Empire, under EO and Roman Catholic, persecuted the OO over Chalcedon. Today in Russia, where Putin favors the Russian Orthodox Church, a law passed that cracked down on evangelism for other religions besides Eastern Orthodoxy.  http://marketmadhouse.com/is-russia-a-theocracy/
Also, I've never heard of an Oriental Orthodox Church accepting abortion like the Patriarch of Constantinople did.
This is not a forum section for debates, so on another section I would like to discuss with you how close the OO position on the natures is to the EO one. I would also like to discuss in another thread the claim that that theocracy is part of EO history and not OO history, and whether persecution between EOs and OOs was generally only by EOs against OOs.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2017, 10:07:05 PM »
I have to say I never really considered the Oriental Orthodox because I never really considered Chalcedon and the Tome of Leo contained anything other than the true faith. But after reading it again I do see how it could get rejected. Now the EO-OO Schism is really looking pretty political, right down to the fact that those loyal to the Empire ended up proving it by using the liturgy of Constantinople instead of their own native liturgy. With that plus the Desert Fathers were, well, Copts...maybe I chose too hastily without visiting the Coptic or Malankara parishes first.

I hope the schism ends in my lifetime (and it would be really great if the Assyrian Church of the East joined too), but it may take the hierarchs another 1600 years to work out all the details based on how our recent council went :P Hopefully the one Pope of Alexandria then is a Copt and the one Patriarch of Antioch is a Syriac.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2017, 10:27:13 PM »
The Liturgy of Constantinople only became the uniform standard in the 11th century.

I have to say I never really considered the Oriental Orthodox because I never really considered Chalcedon and the Tome of Leo contained anything other than the true faith. But after reading it again I do see how it could get rejected. Now the EO-OO Schism is really looking pretty political, right down to the fact that those loyal to the Empire ended up proving it by using the liturgy of Constantinople instead of their own native liturgy. With that plus the Desert Fathers were, well, Copts...maybe I chose too hastily without visiting the Coptic or Malankara parishes first.

I hope the schism ends in my lifetime (and it would be really great if the Assyrian Church of the East joined too), but it may take the hierarchs another 1600 years to work out all the details based on how our recent council went :P Hopefully the one Pope of Alexandria then is a Copt and the one Patriarch of Antioch is a Syriac.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Why not convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?
« Reply #84 on: July 17, 2017, 11:36:25 PM »
The Liturgy of Constantinople only became the uniform standard in the 11th century.

I have to say I never really considered the Oriental Orthodox because I never really considered Chalcedon and the Tome of Leo contained anything other than the true faith. But after reading it again I do see how it could get rejected. Now the EO-OO Schism is really looking pretty political, right down to the fact that those loyal to the Empire ended up proving it by using the liturgy of Constantinople instead of their own native liturgy. With that plus the Desert Fathers were, well, Copts...maybe I chose too hastily without visiting the Coptic or Malankara parishes first.

I hope the schism ends in my lifetime (and it would be really great if the Assyrian Church of the East joined too), but it may take the hierarchs another 1600 years to work out all the details based on how our recent council went :P Hopefully the one Pope of Alexandria then is a Copt and the one Patriarch of Antioch is a Syriac.

What is "the liturgy of Constantinople." The temple liturgy? Because that is highly speculative. Or are you just using shorthand for liturgies used in Constantinople over the centuries.
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