Author Topic: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???  (Read 10283 times)

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Offline Matthew777

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Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« on: July 31, 2006, 11:49:51 PM »
Despite his drunkenness at the time, I don't think that what Mel said concerning Jews is entirely inaccurate:

"According to the report, in addition to threatening the arresting deputy and trying to escape, Gibson said, "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world," and asked the officer, James Mee, "Are you a Jew?""
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060731/ap_en_ot/gibson_remarks_6

The war in Iraq, the current tensions with Iran, and the pre-emptive invasion of Lebanon are either fully or partially the fault of Israel's foreign policy. Who could blame Mel for getting mad over it?

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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2006, 12:04:04 AM »

The war in Iraq, the current tensions with Iran, and the pre-emptive invasion of Lebanon are either fully or partially the fault of Israel's foreign policy. Who could blame Mel for getting mad over it?

I'm not going to say anything about the politics of the Israel-Hizbullah fighting, but, it seems to me that the media, Hollywood and others who hated Mel for making Passion of the Christ are pleased with this whole allged diatribe simply because it allows them to say that they were right in insisting that Mel is anti-Semitic and that he does blame the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ and did try to slant it that way in the movie.  Already, some news outlets, like ABC are resurrecting those stories about Mel's dad who was thought to be some Nazi symphathizer and saying that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

If Mel had mouthed off about the RC church (which I think he wouldn't do) or any Christian group, he'd have been given a medal.  But once say anti-Semitisms, then you've gone way too far.  I love the double standards of this country!

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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2006, 12:34:45 AM »

If Mel had mouthed off about the RC church (which I think he wouldn't do) or any Christian group, he'd have been given a medal.ÂÂ  But once say anti-Semitisms, then you've gone way too far.ÂÂ  I love the double standards of this country!

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Offline GiC

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2006, 01:02:10 AM »
Mel Gibson has mouthed off about the RC church. He's not actually RC, he belongs to a break away "pre-Vatican II" sect.

I thought he was part of Opus Dei.

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2006, 01:14:11 AM »
Tell us Matthew, if a half dozen bullies surrounded you with guns and knives, and in all sincerity threatened to take your life if given the chance, what would you do? Israel still exists today because every time (and there have been multiple times) that the bully nations teamed up and tried to destroy them, Israel kicked their butts (with a big nod to the U.S. for supplying them). If the peace-mongers had their way, Israel would be non-existent. And then you'd be here having a guilt trip, moaning about how terrible it is that we let people treat the Jews the way we do.

Offline Tallitot

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 01:57:21 AM »
I thought he was part of Opus Dei.

No, he's a member of an "independent" traditional Catholic church; see wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson#Religion

He said in an interview:"Vatican II corrupted the institution of the church. Look at the main fruits: dwindling numbers and pedophilia." — Time, January 27, 2003

Most RC's who were going ga-ga over him when he made the Passion weren't aware of his views..they assumed he was a vanilla RC like them.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 02:34:57 AM »
No, he's a member of an "independent" traditional Catholic church; see wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson#Religion

I think GiC was being facetious...get used to it.

Offline Nacho

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2006, 04:14:46 AM »
He must have finally snapped from all the threats he and his family have received from far left - wing Jewish groups like the ADL since the making of the Passion. They will never admit to killing their own Messiah and anyone that publicly displays the truth found in the gospels, especially on film is in for a smear campaign. I remember the silliness these people displayed right before the Passion came out making outrageous claims like there will be a huge tide of anti - semitism that will occur in this country and even violent attacks against Jews. Many of these people call themselves 'true Jews', but in revelations chapter two Christ calls people like this nothing but a "synagogue of Satan." They persecute those that are really the 'true Jews', that being the new Israel - the Christian Church. Some of them still do today to Christ as their ancestors did so long ago. I read the other day that Abraham Foxman of the ADL said that no apology by Gibson will be sufficient enough for his anti - Jewish tirade. Well, coming from someone that doesn't have Christ in their life, it makes since why he will never find forgiveness. Sheeesh, and people like this are the darlings of the Evangelicals... ::)
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 07:01:33 AM »
Quote
Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
No, he's just a joke Australia was playing on the rest of the world, and you guys took it seriously.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006, 08:17:24 AM »
I think Mel is great, but he made a big mistake and will have to pay for it though--he mocked the Lord by continuing his alcohol abuse and the Lord dealt with his pride and lack of self-control.ÂÂ  May I and everyone else learn from his sin and repent.

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Offline SouthSerb99

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2006, 09:21:27 AM »
I'm a little torn on this issue, because on the one hand, I think what he did was wrong (drinking and driving + plus the Jewish remarks - if true), on the other hand, I read the opportunistic comments by those like Abe Foxman and immediately get my back up.

Anastasios is correct when he says that Mel sinned, as we all do, however, how many of us have to deal with the scrutiny of a very intense Jewish lobby to call us out on our "anti-semitism"?

As most of you know, I work in an office where I am the only non-Jewish attorney.ÂÂ  Once this story broke, I heard all the conversations about "we always knew he was anti-semitic just from that stupid movie".

My response to this was "where were all of you complaining about that *stupid movie* called the Da Vinci Code?"ÂÂ  I think many are using to occassion to advance the position that a strict belief in the Gospels is automatically anti-semetic.ÂÂ  For people like me, that is very offensive.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 09:21:58 AM by SouthSerb99 »
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2006, 10:09:53 AM »
Anastasios is correct when he says that Mel sinned
This has nothing to do with "sin". I personally think Mel is a bad actor and a bad producer/director/writer, neither of which is a sin. I loathed the Mad Max films, and was not impressed by The Passion of the Christ, so unlike anastasios, I don't think Mel is particularly "great".
But neither do I think he is guilty of the catalogue of sins anastasios accuses him of: 'mocking the Lord', 'pride', 'lack of self control'; and I think it is a bit self-righteous to say that we should learn from this sinner's example and repent. And I must say that I'm a little surprised to hear Christians speak like this.  How can anyone but God know if Mel was mocking Him, or had fallen into pride, or was incontinent? Why is it that when it comes to civil law we so adamantly fight for the principle of "innocent until proven guilty", yet when it comes to the Divine Laws, we happily hand our brothers over to judgement and accuse them of "sin" when Our Lord and His Apostles cleary and distinctly tell us not to? Even if we can't help thinking our brother has "sinned", shouldn't we weave a blanket of love and prayer in order to cover their nakedness rather than point to them and shout "He he is Lord! The sinner!" Do we think tghat God will reward us for being His "policemen"? I think not.
If I wanted to opportunistically use this situation to cast aspersions on the Church, I would point to how quickly Christians forget the command to "pass no judgement", and treat it as meaningless.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 10:18:13 AM by ozgeorge »
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Offline Hadel

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 10:26:13 AM »
"Those without sin cast the first stone...." JESUS CHRIST

As far as Mel's Jewish statement, in my opinion is WRONG!

However, if he had said something about the Irish, Italian, American in General, Indians, Black-Americans, Arabs, Hispanic etc..... the reaction would be less severe as the Jewish Statement. I have heard personal blows on my ethnicity in hollywood for years and no one ever reacted as Mel's comments so no surprise in my view.

THATS HOLLYWOOD!

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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2006, 10:49:46 AM »
I heard about Mr Gibson's anti-semitism when his film "The Passion" came out. It was in the newspapers that both he and his father have previously claimed that the Holocaust was, "exaggerated". So this latest outburst doesn't suprise me at all. I think it's extremely sad that he holds such views and I pray for him that he sees the truth in all of this.

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Offline Jakub

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2006, 12:04:25 PM »
nothing like being humbled by the Lord...He disciplines out of love...His gentle reminder to all.

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Offline chrisb

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2006, 12:13:16 PM »
He must have finally snapped from all the threats he and his family have received from far left - wing Jewish groups like the ADL since the making of the Passion. They will never admit to killing their own Messiah and anyone that publicly displays the truth found in the gospels, especially on film is in for a smear campaign. I remember the silliness these people displayed right before the Passion came out making outrageous claims like there will be a huge tide of anti - semitism that will occur in this country and even violent attacks against Jews. Many of these people call themselves 'true Jews', but in revelations chapter two Christ calls people like this nothing but a "synagogue of Satan." They persecute those that are really the 'true Jews', that being the new Israel - the Christian Church. Some of them still do today to Christ as their ancestors did so long ago. I read the other day that Abraham Foxman of the ADL said that no apology by Gibson will be sufficient enough for his anti - Jewish tirade. Well, coming from someone that doesn't have Christ in their life, it makes since why he will never find forgiveness. Sheeesh, and people like this are the darlings of the Evangelicals... ::)

I'd be interested in knowing what you mean by "people like this are the darlings of the Evangelicals"?
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Offline Nacho

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2006, 12:32:12 PM »
Quote
I'd be interested in knowing what you mean by "people like this are the darlings of the Evangelicals"?

It's in reference to the crazy doctrine that evangelicals espouse as these people still being God's 'chosen' people. They build weird apocalyptic themes around the Jews and current day Israel. I find this pandering absurd quite frankly. The people whom are God's chosen people are those that follow Christ.
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Offline bergschlawiner

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2006, 01:27:46 PM »
Mel Gibson has mouthed off about the RC church. He's not actually RC, he belongs to a break away "pre-Vatican II" sect.
  Then perhaps that would qualify him to be an "Orthodox Roman Catholic"

Offline alexp4uni

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2006, 01:35:12 PM »
The Patriot was better than the Passion.

Offline observer

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2006, 01:58:43 PM »
I hope Mel is not planning a trip to Austria - he could be locked up for free speech ;D
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2006, 04:04:33 PM »
He must have finally snapped from all the threats he and his family have received from far left - wing Jewish groups like the ADL since the making of the Passion.

I like that line of reasoning...if someone does something wrong it isn't thier own fault...someone else drove them to it. :D I guess Nacho's a "liberal" now.
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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2006, 04:06:17 PM »
Free speech comes with responsibility. Comments like Gibson's are just hurtful and are certainly not Christian.
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Offline chrisb

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2006, 04:19:59 PM »
It's in reference to the crazy doctrine that evangelicals espouse as these people still being God's 'chosen' people.

Crazy doctrine or simply acknowledging God's Promise to a people as one beyond reproach?

Quote
They build weird apocalyptic themes around the Jews and current day Israel.

Evangelicals are a big group with a great deal of diversity I'm not sure your statment is accurate to suggest that 'they' build weird apocalyptic themes around the Jews or Israel. Not all Evangelicals claim Pre-Millenial Rapture as they're eschatology. I'd ask you to exercise a little bit more discernment in your use of labeling.

Quote
I find this pandering absurd quite frankly.

Again recognizing God's Promises as Ironclad is not something I would characterize as 'pandering'.

Quote
The people whom are God's chosen people are those that follow Christ.

I believe it was our Lord Himself who once said: For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother.


« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 04:20:52 PM by chrisb »
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Offline Nacho

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2006, 04:25:48 PM »
Quote
I like that line of reasoning...if someone does something wrong it isn't thier own fault...someone else drove them to it.  I guess Nacho's a "liberal" now.

I'm not making excuses for what he said.... we are all human and sometimes we snap. Who knows what Mel was thinking at the time. It was unfortunate and I hope he makes amends to those he has hurt with his comments.
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2006, 05:05:58 PM »
Hold on a minute people.
   How do we know if this story is true? Is this man going to be found guilty in the court of public opinion based on what could very well be rumor and possibly out right lies?  Who run this " TMZ" media outfit that broke the story? For all we know, his enemies ( and he has many) have been waiting for an opportunity such as this to unleash a smear campain to discredit Mr. Gibson. It is certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Maybe he said these things . But maybe he did not.
 A little more objectivity and investigation into the FACTS may reveal entirely different story.
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2006, 05:11:49 PM »
The story was broke by a Mr. Levin   ( Levin = Levi + n ) .  Anybody know if this is a Jewish name?
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Offline Zoe

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2006, 05:17:41 PM »
Why would Mel apologize for something he didn't do?
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2006, 05:19:38 PM »
Why would Mel apologize for something he didn't do?
  We don`t Know what he said....or am I missing something...
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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2006, 05:38:36 PM »
"One must have only a little patience-and is it really so difficult? For every day that passes quietly I thank God"

Offline Aristibule

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2006, 06:20:23 PM »
It's fishy - DUI stops don't include narratives about whether anyone made 'anti-Semitic remarks' - at least none I've ever seen (what, was the Deputy also a script-writer?) The idea that some cover-up has 'excised' some information from the report? Nutters - that isn't how one does a traffic stop, or how one writes a report (never mind what is actually admissible in court to get a conviction for Drunk Driving. Is there video? Did they take him down for a breathalyzer test? etc.) My gut feeling is that someone got leak of the traffic stop and 'introduced' some material. If he was drunk - then how does he know he said it? How does he know he didn't say it? The best course of action would be to apologize - which he has done. That doesn't mean that he actually did it - just that he'll do what it takes to show contrition and try to stop a controversy.
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2006, 06:28:29 PM »
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2006, 06:35:31 PM »
It's a terrible thing to say. Anti-semitism is hardly something to be proud of. Personally, I don't want to see Nazis on my TV screen.
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2006, 06:37:29 PM »
It's a terrible thing to say. Anti-semitism is hardly something to be proud of. Personally, I don't want to see Nazis on my TV screen.
   You`ve NEVER said anything that you regret?
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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2006, 06:39:47 PM »
I have but he's made comments like this before and the sect he follows preaches anti-semitism. His father is on record as saying that the Holocaust never happened. He claims to be a Christian and obviously isn't when he finds it acceptable to a)make these statements and b)excuse them because of alcohol. Why are you excusing blatant anti-semitism?
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2006, 06:42:47 PM »
I have but he's made comments like this before and the sect he follows preaches anti-semitism. His father is on record as saying that the Holocaust never happened. He claims to be a Christian and obviously isn't when he finds it acceptable to a)make these statements and b)excuse them because of alcohol. Why are you excusing blatant anti-semitism?
        If you feel qualified to judge the man, go ahead......I certainly cannot
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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2006, 06:44:15 PM »
If objecting to anti-semitism is judging then I'm judging him. But I find that a poor excuse.
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2006, 06:58:00 PM »
The man was drunk and said some sh*t he should not have said.  Anybody who drinks has at one time or another done the same .  That`s why I call it truth serum.
   This is America . He is entitled to his opinions.....no matter how screwed up they may be. And I will defend his right to have his opinions.
 His personal views are of no concern to me.

   PS.   even if he`s not American.....
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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2006, 07:06:59 PM »
He's said these sort of things when he's sober though so the drink really isn't an excuse. If you want to defend an anti-semite then go ahead but if you're defending his right to be anti-semitic, then you're defending the views of Hitler, Stalin and a whole bunch of others and that doesn't strike me as being very wise.
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2006, 07:09:43 PM »
He's said these sort of things when he's sober though so the drink really isn't an excuse. If you want to defend an anti-semite then go ahead but if you're defending his right to be anti-semitic, then you're defending the views of Hitler, Stalin and a whole bunch of others and that doesn't strike me as being very wise.
   Ok....so now Mel Gibson is in the same category as Hitler and Stalin ::)?
What have YOU been drinking?
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Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2006, 07:13:37 PM »
If he's an anti-semite, which his comments frequently point to (he said he agreed with his father that the Holocaust was exaggerated) then yes, he is in the same category as Hitler and Stalin. He may not have ordered the execution of Jews but he agrees that Jewish people are of a lesser class and therefore he is definately in their league.
"One must have only a little patience-and is it really so difficult? For every day that passes quietly I thank God"

Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2006, 07:18:14 PM »
Oh my goodness......I believe you are suffering from linear thinking .

I am growing bored with this ....I`m going out to have a drink......
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

Offline Matthew777

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2006, 07:33:53 PM »
A little more objectivity and investigation into the FACTS may reveal entirely different story.

I hope you are right on this one. Why would Gibson, even if drunk, refer to a police officer as "sugar tits"?
He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Offline StephenG

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2006, 07:55:44 PM »
He was apparently drunk, driving and when stopped abusive of a police officer. It also seems he then mouthed off about Jews, something anyone with a career in Hollywood might only do if he wants his career to terminate.

His remarks appear offensive and needless, surely?

Israel is surrounded by bullies? The recent events in both the north and south of the country were triggered by the kidnap of IDF personnel. This was condemned harshly by the Israeli PM. Funny he doesn't remember when Palestine was a British mandate two British Army sergeants were kidnapped. A fruitless search by the British Army and Palestine Police failed to find them until their lifeless bodies were found hanging. In trying to recover the bodies a British captain was killed by a booby trap attached to the bodies. This action had been undertaken by Irgun.

The following quotes of David Ben Gurion, Israeli Prime Minister, 1949-1954 and 1955-1963, might shed light on who example others now follow and why they resist Israel.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.....politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves.... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
David Ben Gurion, 'Fateful Triangle', by Chomsky in Simha Flapan's 'Zionism and the Palestinians', pages 141-142 citing a 1938 speech

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to ride the Galillee of its Arab population."
David Ben Gurion to the General Staff. From Ben Gurio, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, New York, 1978

"We must expel Arabs and take their places"
David Ben Gurion, 1937, 'Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs', Oxford University Press, 1985

The attitude of some Israelis actually appears to value Arab lives as less than equal to that of Israelis. Certainly a casualty ratio running almost throughout at 10:1 hardly suggests proportionately.

This conflict between two peoples is never going to be solved militarily, and anyview of history, and especially recent history should leave us in no doubt of this.

As to Mr Gibson. He appears to have handed his detractors all the ammunition they might desire, and he only has himself to blame.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 07:57:27 PM by StephenG »

Offline Psalti Boy

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2006, 08:20:18 PM »
And . . . what about forgiveness ???


Offline Troldhaugen

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Re: Is Mel Gibson out of his mind???
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2006, 08:39:09 PM »
I believe that people would forgive him if this were an isolated incident but it doesn't seem to be. It seems to be a personality trait and thats much harder to understand and forgive.
"One must have only a little patience-and is it really so difficult? For every day that passes quietly I thank God"