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Author Topic: The Assyrian Church of the East  (Read 67372 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #855 on: August 08, 2012, 02:09:12 PM »

I don't want to start a new thread, so I decided to ask it here.

I'm interested in the origin of The Assyrian Church of East, but from their perspective.

I found this information: It is an Apostolic church, established by the apostles St Thomas, St Thaddeus, and St Bartholomew. St Peter, the chief of the apostles added his blessing to the Church of the East at the time of his visit to the see at Babylon, in the earliest days of the church: "... The chosen church which is at Babylon, and Mark, my son, salute you ... greet one another with a holy kiss ..." ( I Peter 5:13-14).

http://www.oikoumene.org/member-churches/regions/north-america/united-states-of-america/holy-apostolic-catholic-assyrian-church-of-the-east.html

Do Assrians believe that Peter was literally in Babilon, and it didn't mean he was actualy in Rome?

I have read this before, mostly from members of the Assyrian Church (as well as some Protestant writers who are enamored with it), but as far as I know, they are the only ones who have ever claimed as much.
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« Reply #856 on: September 21, 2012, 11:24:39 PM »

I just found out about a new website about the Church of the East:

http://eastmeetseastblog.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #857 on: January 11, 2013, 09:26:39 AM »

Which gospel does Assyrian church of east believe ? Christus victor?satisfaction theory ? Penal substitution?

Does Assyrian church of east  believe heaven and hell ? How does Assyrian church of east understand of hell?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 09:27:55 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #858 on: July 18, 2013, 04:19:38 PM »

I don't want to start a new thread, so I decided to ask it here.

I'm interested in the origin of The Assyrian Church of East, but from their perspective.

I found this information: It is an Apostolic church, established by the apostles St Thomas, St Thaddeus, and St Bartholomew. St Peter, the chief of the apostles added his blessing to the Church of the East at the time of his visit to the see at Babylon, in the earliest days of the church: "... The chosen church which is at Babylon, and Mark, my son, salute you ... greet one another with a holy kiss ..." ( I Peter 5:13-14).

http://www.oikoumene.org/member-churches/regions/north-america/united-states-of-america/holy-apostolic-catholic-assyrian-church-of-the-east.html

Do Assrians believe that Peter was literally in Babilon, and it didn't mean he was actualy in Rome?

I have read this before, mostly from members of the Assyrian Church (as well as some Protestant writers who are enamored with it), but as far as I know, they are the only ones who have ever claimed as much.

The Coptic Orthodox Church holds that it is a reference to Babylon (the suburb) in Old Cairo; So at the very least it appears as though the location of this "Babylon" is disputed.
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« Reply #859 on: July 18, 2013, 04:46:46 PM »

I don't want to start a new thread, so I decided to ask it here.

I'm interested in the origin of The Assyrian Church of East, but from their perspective.

I found this information: It is an Apostolic church, established by the apostles St Thomas, St Thaddeus, and St Bartholomew. St Peter, the chief of the apostles added his blessing to the Church of the East at the time of his visit to the see at Babylon, in the earliest days of the church: "... The chosen church which is at Babylon, and Mark, my son, salute you ... greet one another with a holy kiss ..." ( I Peter 5:13-14).

http://www.oikoumene.org/member-churches/regions/north-america/united-states-of-america/holy-apostolic-catholic-assyrian-church-of-the-east.html

Do Assrians believe that Peter was literally in Babilon, and it didn't mean he was actualy in Rome?

I have read this before, mostly from members of the Assyrian Church (as well as some Protestant writers who are enamored with it), but as far as I know, they are the only ones who have ever claimed as much.

The Coptic Orthodox Church holds that it is a reference to Babylon (the suburb) in Old Cairo; So at the very least it appears as though the location of this "Babylon" is disputed.

Interesting, I was unaware of this.
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« Reply #860 on: July 18, 2013, 04:59:55 PM »

I don't ever recall us venerating him or celebrating a feast day etc. I know we label him the bloodless martyr but he is not considered a saint to my knowledge.

Isn't October 25th the day the Church of the East honours Mar Nestorius?
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« Reply #861 on: July 18, 2013, 05:07:32 PM »

Are there currently any Assyrians / members of the Church of the East on here please? Wouldn't mind asking a few questions if this is alright?

A diagram should always be accompanied by an explanation of it to put it into perspective IMO, so what do you think when I accompany this:



with this:

Quote
“A singular essence is called a ‘qnoma’. It stands alone, one in number, that is, one as distinct from the many. A qnoma is invariable in its natural state and is bound to a species and nature, being one [numerically] among a number of like qnome. It is distinctive among its fellow qnome [only] by reason of any unique property or characteristic which it possesses in its ‘parsopa’. With rational creatures this [uniqueness] may consist of various [external and internal] accidents, such as excellent or evil character, or knowledge or ignorance, and with irrational creatures [as also with the rational] the combination of various contrasting features. [Through the parsopa we distinguish that] Gabriel is not Michael, and Paul is not Peter. However, in each qnoma of any given nature the entire common nature is known, and intellectually one recognizes what that nature, which encompasses all its qnome, consists of. A qnoma does not encompass the nature as a whole [but exemplifies what is common to the nature, such as, in a human qnoma, body, soul, mind, etc.].”—Fourth Memra, Book of the Union, Published by Corpus Scriptorum Christianorum Orientalium, Paris, 1915, A. Vaschalde, ed.

This diagram is not about chronology of existance but level of existence - abstract, concrete and material.

Thank you for this diagramme  Smiley (The colours aren't the best but I'm colour deficient so perhaps this is just a problem for me.)
Have saved this for future reference. Hope that's okay mate?
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« Reply #862 on: January 29, 2014, 12:21:45 PM »

For anyone interested:

Oxford University Press has made available for free (Open Access Version for a limited time) a critical translation and study of the Chronicles of Seert, one of the important histories of the Church of the East. It dates from around the 10th Century.

The Chronicle of Seert
Christian Historical Imagination in Late Antique Iraq
Philip Wood
Oxford Early Christian Studies

About this book:

The history of Christianity is often only seen from a Mediterranean perspective, this study expands this story to include Mesopotamia, with glances further east to Iran, Central Asia and China.
* Makes use of rarely-used primary sources
* Blends historiography and cultural history
* Straddles the boundaries of the pre-Islamic and Islamic periods
* Combines the study of Syriac with the continuation of Syriac historiography into Arabic

A PDF version of this book is available for free in open access via www.oup.com/uk as well as the OAPEN Library platform, www.oapen.org. It has been made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-Non Commercial-No Derivatives 3.0 license and is part of the OAPEN-UK research project.

This monograph uses a medieval Arabic chronicle, the Chronicle of Seert, as a window into the Christian history of Iraq. The Chronicle describes events that are unknown from other sources, but it is most useful for what it tells us about the changing agendas of those who wrote history and their audiences in the period c.400-800.

By splitting the Chronicle into its constituent layers, Philip Wood presents a rich cultural history of Iraq. He examines the Christians' self-presentation as a church of the martyrs and the uncomfortable reality of close engagement with the Sasanian state. The history of the past was used as a source of solidarity in the present, to draw together disparate Christian communities. But it also represented a means of criticising figures in the present, whether these be secular rulers or over-mighty bishops and abbots.

The Chronicle gives us an insight into the development of an international awareness within the church in Iraq. Christians increasingly raised their horizons to the Roman Empire in the West, which offered a model of Christian statehood, while also being the source of resented theological innovation or heresy. It also shows us the competing strands of patronage within the church: between laymen and clergy; church and state; centre and periphery. Building on earlier scholarship rooted in the contemporary Syriac sources, Wood complements that picture with the testimony of this later witness.

Readership: Studenst and scholars of the early Church; of late antique Iraq; of early Islam

http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199670673.do#.UhxvZawwr_k
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« Reply #863 on: January 29, 2014, 12:35:27 PM »

thanks.
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« Reply #864 on: May 24, 2014, 09:57:23 AM »

Quote
it seems that Nestorius himself did not teach that Jesus exists in two persons, but only that Mary was the mother of Jesus' flesh rather than His divinity.

Which is itself a heresy! Sheesh, read up more on theology, Matthew.

BTW, I would wager that you have never been to an Assyrian liturgy--I have, three times. It's nice in some respects, not so nice in others.

Anastasios

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In what ways?  I see in the Litrgy quoted in the link below, the priest strikes his own face at one point.  Any other examples?
http://www.liturgies.net/Liturgies/Other/LiturgyOfTheAssyrianChurch.htm
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« Reply #865 on: May 24, 2014, 10:56:06 AM »

Quote
it seems that Nestorius himself did not teach that Jesus exists in two persons, but only that Mary was the mother of Jesus' flesh rather than His divinity.

Which is itself a heresy! Sheesh, read up more on theology, Matthew.

BTW, I would wager that you have never been to an Assyrian liturgy--I have, three times. It's nice in some respects, not so nice in others.

Anastasios

Thread resurrection!

In what ways?  I see in the Litrgy quoted in the link below, the priest strikes his own face at one point.  Any other examples?
http://www.liturgies.net/Liturgies/Other/LiturgyOfTheAssyrianChurch.htm

This is a recording of the Assyrian Liturgy celebrated in Australia.  I don't know how typical this is, but it's in English.  It doesn't seem to include the Liturgy of the Catechumens, so I think some of it was not recorded (I can't find it). 

This is a recording of the Liturgy which is divided in parts, possibly complete (haven't watched it all), but in Syriac. 
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« Reply #866 on: May 24, 2014, 11:23:42 AM »

Quote
it seems that Nestorius himself did not teach that Jesus exists in two persons, but only that Mary was the mother of Jesus' flesh rather than His divinity.

Which is itself a heresy! Sheesh, read up more on theology, Matthew.

BTW, I would wager that you have never been to an Assyrian liturgy--I have, three times. It's nice in some respects, not so nice in others.

Anastasios

Thread resurrection!

In what ways?  I see in the Litrgy quoted in the link below, the priest strikes his own face at one point.  Any other examples?
http://www.liturgies.net/Liturgies/Other/LiturgyOfTheAssyrianChurch.htm

This is a recording of the Assyrian Liturgy celebrated in Australia.  I don't know how typical this is, but it's in English.  It doesn't seem to include the Liturgy of the Catechumens, so I think some of it was not recorded (I can't find it).  

This is a recording of the Liturgy which is divided in parts, possibly complete (haven't watched it all), but in Syriac.  

Thanks for posting.  The priest's homily in the first video is pretty good.  Kind of hard to see, but during communion, communicants kiss something, then put their hands near the censer.  What is it they are venerating?  The Gospel?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 11:28:59 AM by hecma925 » Logged

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« Reply #867 on: May 24, 2014, 11:40:31 AM »

Kind of hard to see, but during communion, communicants kiss something, then put their hands near the censer.  What is it they are venerating?  The Gospel?

Yes.  There may be a Cross as well, I can't make it out but it is not uncommon.
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« Reply #868 on: May 24, 2014, 12:00:22 PM »

btw, there is a FB page for the Assyrian Eastern Orthodox Christians, i.e. those in communion with us EO
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AssyrianEasternOrthodoxChristians/140190479485053/?notif_t=group_activity
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« Reply #869 on: May 24, 2014, 12:06:42 PM »

Funny, I thought members of the Assyrian Church crossed themselves from left to right.
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« Reply #870 on: May 24, 2014, 12:20:41 PM »

Funny, I thought members of the Assyrian Church crossed themselves from left to right.

I was struck by that too. Hmmm.
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« Reply #871 on: May 24, 2014, 12:39:28 PM »

Funny, I thought members of the Assyrian Church crossed themselves from left to right.

I was struck by that too. Hmmm.

No, they cross themselves like the EO.  They are unique in the non-EO East in that. 
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« Reply #872 on: May 24, 2014, 12:50:15 PM »

Funny, I thought members of the Assyrian Church crossed themselves from left to right.

I was struck by that too. Hmmm.

No, they cross themselves like the EO.  They are unique in the non-EO East in that. 
Btw, the Latins of the West used to do it like we do.
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« Reply #873 on: May 24, 2014, 12:55:05 PM »

Quote
it seems that Nestorius himself did not teach that Jesus exists in two persons, but only that Mary was the mother of Jesus' flesh rather than His divinity.

Which is itself a heresy! Sheesh, read up more on theology, Matthew.

BTW, I would wager that you have never been to an Assyrian liturgy--I have, three times. It's nice in some respects, not so nice in others.

Anastasios


Thread resurrection!

In what ways?  I see in the Litrgy quoted in the link below, the priest strikes his own face at one point.  Any other examples?
http://www.liturgies.net/Liturgies/Other/LiturgyOfTheAssyrianChurch.htm

Regarding the liturgy, I seem to recall there were issues regarding the anapora, but I don't recall exactly what they were.
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« Reply #874 on: May 24, 2014, 01:26:25 PM »

Funny, I thought members of the Assyrian Church crossed themselves from left to right.

I was struck by that too. Hmmm.

No, they cross themselves like the EO.  They are unique in the non-EO East in that. 

You mean the non-EO non-EC East. (That's sounds like a song I once knew, but I can't think of it.)
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« Reply #875 on: May 24, 2014, 03:40:02 PM »

No, they cross themselves like the EO.  They are unique in the non-EO East in that. 

You mean the non-EO non-EC East. (That's sounds like a song I once knew, but I can't think of it.)

I meant what I wrote and/or vice versa, it makes no difference. 
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