OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 28, 2014, 12:25:04 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Assyrian Church of the East  (Read 69458 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Rafa999
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 1,600


« Reply #765 on: August 26, 2011, 05:40:33 PM »

I don't know if at any point here I said "Christ did not become man" (Khasli) that is a heresy if so, clearly a heresy. What I do want to stress is that the humanity and Divinity were preserved seperately in one Sonship. Also in the Aramaic:

Quote
“The word became flesh and dwelt among[7] us.�?A devout and pious man laboured for many years in prayer to God, that He would disclose to him the meaning of this declaration: A voice from heaven was at length vouchsafed to him, saying:

“Ascribe to the flesh the word�?“became�?and to the “Word�?ascribe “dwelt �? and the meaning was thus preserved.

In Aramaic "flesh" can be ascribed to "became" and "Word" to "dwelt".
Logged

I am NOT a representative of the ACOE. Ignore my posts
Rafa999
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 1,600


« Reply #766 on: August 27, 2011, 03:47:16 PM »

I am not sure if this diagram is right even though an ACOE member was preparing it:



I presented it repeatedly. Please check with an Assyrian Church of the East Priest to see if it is correct.
Logged

I am NOT a representative of the ACOE. Ignore my posts
Rafa999
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 1,600


« Reply #767 on: August 27, 2011, 03:47:16 PM »

3 Qnome in One God, and One in three. Anything else is heresy.

Here from the Catechism:

Quote
15) How can we, therefore, grasp these words: “We believe in One God the Father,” within our confession of the mystery of the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

God is One, He is One in Nature in three qnume; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  The Nature of the Holy Trinity is ONE, and undivided.  We have the example of the sun hanging in the heavens, it is one, but we can discern, it has a circle, it has heat, and it has light, it is one; demonstrated in three characteristics.  Water is the same; a substance in steam, ice, or liquid; but it is the same material.

Quote
18)  How is it that we say One God in three qnume?

We cannot fully understand in human terms this unique mystery of the revelation of God in Holy Trinity; however, we do believe it is based upon the infallible teaching of the Divine Words of God.  It is written in St Paul’s epistles: “ . . . what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of a man, which is in him?  Even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God. . . .” (I Cor 2:11)

 

19)   Can you name the differences in the three qnume of The Holy Trinity?

1 --- God the Father begets (is not begotten), neither               proceeds from any other qnume; and,

2 --- God The Son, He is eternally begotten of God the Father, He does not proceed from any other qnume; and,

3 --- God The Holy Spirit, He eternally proceeds from God The Father, and He is not begotten by any other qnume.

 

20)  Are the Three qnume equal?

Yes!  They are equal in majesty, authority, power, love and will. The Father is Truly God, the Son is Truly God, the Holy Spirit is truly God; One God eternally revealed in Three qnume!

http://www.acoeyouth.org/Learn/catechism/cat.html

I was at the time I mentioned "10 Qnome" in this thread influenced by a Hebrew Roots non-Trinitarian unorthodox individual who was an ACOE member. Sadly he does not agree with Orthodox Trinitarian Theology. My Apologies for gravely misrepresenting the ACOE on this!
Logged

I am NOT a representative of the ACOE. Ignore my posts
Rafa999
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 1,600


« Reply #768 on: August 31, 2011, 04:24:44 PM »

If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
-John 3:12

This verse was given to me as proof of Jesus using the "pshat" (plain) meaning of scripture first. I made the presumptious statement that the Lord Jesus MUST use the "pshat" (plain) meaning first. That is wrong, I cannot make such a presumptious statement. I believe in it though, I believe the Lord Jesus always used plain scripture first then went to other levels of meaning in the scripture.
Logged

I am NOT a representative of the ACOE. Ignore my posts
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #769 on: November 05, 2011, 10:25:02 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

Just to clarify we do not believe in two sons or two sonships. We believe in one son, perfect man and perfect God in the same manner as you do, we confess the same faith worship the same God take the same sacrament and maintain the same apostolic succession that you hold to.

God bless.
Logged
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Miaphysite Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: The Church of Alexandria
Posts: 5,042


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #770 on: November 05, 2011, 10:30:22 AM »

^I am honored to be the first person to welcome you to OC.net! I am glad we have an ACOE member to discuss things with! Smiley

God bless.
Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

I am currently not an active poster on the forum. Please forgive any offense I might have caused in the past. Thank you.
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #771 on: November 05, 2011, 10:31:15 AM »

I am not sure if this diagram is right even though an ACOE member was preparing it:



I presented it repeatedly. Please check with an Assyrian Church of the East Priest to see if it is correct.
Does ACOE accept the idea of theosis? Man becoming God, by sharing God's energies but not God's essence?
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Hiwot
Christ is Risen!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 1,959


Job 19:25-27


« Reply #772 on: November 05, 2011, 11:01:35 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

Just to clarify we do not believe in two sons or two sonships. We believe in one son, perfect man and perfect God in the same manner as you do, we confess the same faith worship the same God take the same sacrament and maintain the same apostolic succession that you hold to.

God bless.

Welcome to the forum, its great to have you in here, and I personaly would appreciate it  if you can further clarify your statement above the one I put in bold.

selam to you Smiley
Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #773 on: November 05, 2011, 12:23:52 PM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

Just to clarify we do not believe in two sons or two sonships. We believe in one son, perfect man and perfect God in the same manner as you do, we confess the same faith worship the same God take the same sacrament and maintain the same apostolic succession that you hold to.

God bless.
Welcome!
I second Hiwot's request for clarification.

May I ask, where are you from/located?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
NicholasMyra
Avowed denominationalist
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 6,068


When in doubt, say: "you lack the proper φρόνημα"


« Reply #774 on: November 05, 2011, 12:28:14 PM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:28:58 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,432



« Reply #775 on: November 05, 2011, 12:35:20 PM »

Welcome to the Forum, Assyrian Lector.  Smiley
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #776 on: November 06, 2011, 07:30:06 AM »

Good evening beloved in Christ, I will answer your questions as soon as I have a little bit of time, it is past my bed time here and I have work tomorrow and university studies after that.

May the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ our God and King keep you safe from all harm hidden or open and the prayers of the most blessed virgin guide you all toward eternal salvation,  Amen.
Logged
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #777 on: November 06, 2011, 07:50:27 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.

We as the Church of the East fully understand that the terminology "Theotokos" does not imply the blessed virgin gave birth to or created the divinity of our Lord. But from a Semitic perspective, to make the statement "Yima't Allaha" Mother of God In the Aramaic, signifies explicitly that the Blessed Virgin is literally the mother of God the Father and is linguistically and culturally incorrect. But this does not signify that we do not believe our Lord to be the Son of God or God in the flesh, for we confess that the Miltha or Logos in Greek became Man and dwelt with us.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #778 on: November 06, 2011, 09:37:43 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.

We as the Church of the East fully understand that the terminology "Theotokos" does not imply the blessed virgin gave birth to or created the divinity of our Lord. But from a Semitic perspective, to make the statement "Yima't Allaha" Mother of God In the Aramaic, signifies explicitly that the Blessed Virgin is literally the mother of God the Father and is linguistically and culturally incorrect. But this does not signify that we do not believe our Lord to be the Son of God or God in the flesh, for we confess that the Miltha or Logos in Greek became Man and dwelt with us.
As a fellow Semite, the correct term for Theotokos is "Yaldath Allaha," which is theologically, linquistically and culturally correct (being used by the Arab, Syriac and Ethiopian Orthodox).  The use of "Yima't Allaha" can be miscontrued as saying she is the source of the divine essence, but she is the source of the enfleshed logos as to His humanity.

Somewhere here we disputed this question from the ACoE catechism.  It would have been closer if it spoke of giving birth to the crown prince in a monarchy.  Presidents and patriarchs have to be elected, which would be Adoptionism.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 09:38:09 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #779 on: November 07, 2011, 02:18:03 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.

We as the Church of the East fully understand that the terminology "Theotokos" does not imply the blessed virgin gave birth to or created the divinity of our Lord. But from a Semitic perspective, to make the statement "Yima't Allaha" Mother of God In the Aramaic, signifies explicitly that the Blessed Virgin is literally the mother of God the Father and is linguistically and culturally incorrect. But this does not signify that we do not believe our Lord to be the Son of God or God in the flesh, for we confess that the Miltha or Logos in Greek became Man and dwelt with us.
As a fellow Semite, the correct term for Theotokos is "Yaldath Allaha," which is theologically, linquistically and culturally correct (being used by the Arab, Syriac and Ethiopian Orthodox).  The use of "Yima't Allaha" can be miscontrued as saying she is the source of the divine essence, but she is the source of the enfleshed logos as to His humanity.

Somewhere here we disputed this question from the ACoE catechism.  It would have been closer if it spoke of giving birth to the crown prince in a monarchy.  Presidents and patriarchs have to be elected, which would be Adoptionism.

For an Assyrian it is not so and here we must agree to disagree.  Smiley

I am certain that the author in now way meant to portray adoptionism but rather they would and I also would agree to your suggestion, which is what I believe the writer was trying to portray.
Logged
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #780 on: November 07, 2011, 02:27:05 AM »

I am not sure if this diagram is right even though an ACOE member was preparing it:



I presented it repeatedly. Please check with an Assyrian Church of the East Priest to see if it is correct.
Does ACOE accept the idea of theosis? Man becoming God, by sharing God's energies but not God's essence?

We don't use the term theosis but we do adhere to a very similar theology, I think it is derived from second Peter and where we partake of the divine nature.
Logged
NicholasMyra
Avowed denominationalist
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 6,068


When in doubt, say: "you lack the proper φρόνημα"


« Reply #781 on: November 07, 2011, 02:33:03 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.
It is not. We believe that the Theotokos gave birth to a pre-existent, divine subsistence: The Logos of God. God was conceived. God became a fetus. God was born. God wept. God died.

The Divinity of the Greeks is not safe from Christ.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 02:35:05 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #782 on: November 07, 2011, 02:41:00 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

Just to clarify we do not believe in two sons or two sonships. We believe in one son, perfect man and perfect God in the same manner as you do, we confess the same faith worship the same God take the same sacrament and maintain the same apostolic succession that you hold to.

God bless.

Welcome to the forum, its great to have you in here, and I personaly would appreciate it  if you can further clarify your statement above the one I put in bold.

selam to you Smiley

Hi, not sure where the ambiguity lies? We believe in the power of sacraments, we hold onto Apostolic succession, we confess one Lord Jesus as both perfect Man and perfect God. We have not strayed from our roots or the teaching of our forefathers and as a testimony to the world miracles do occur in our churches, Christ, the Blessed Virgin and many Saints have appeared to the faithful.

The main difference between us and the EO is that we say Mary is the Mother of Christ who is God in the flesh so in actually fact we know that she is the Mother of God because Christ is God. But again to an Assyrian to state Yima't Allaha is linguistically and culturally perplexing because the term Allaha is reserved for the entirety of the God head.

In Aramaic the term Son of God is pronounced Bar' Allaha, so for us it is logically incoherent to name her Yima't Allaha as it connotes that Mary bore the God head, which we all know isnt what occurred and which we also know as Assyrians isn't what you mean by the term Theotokos.
Logged
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #783 on: November 07, 2011, 02:45:24 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.
It is not. We believe that the Theotokos gave birth to a pre-existent, divine subsistence: The Logos of God. God was conceived. God became a fetus. God was born. God wept. God died.

The Divinity of the Greeks is not safe from Christ.

Your first paragraph I understand and agree with, she gave birth to that, which was pre existent and eternal, without beginning who was begotten of His Father before all worlds and not made.

I got no idea what you mean with your second statement.
Logged
NicholasMyra
Avowed denominationalist
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 6,068


When in doubt, say: "you lack the proper φρόνημα"


« Reply #784 on: November 07, 2011, 03:05:56 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.
It is not. We believe that the Theotokos gave birth to a pre-existent, divine subsistence: The Logos of God. God was conceived. God became a fetus. God was born. God wept. God died.

The Divinity of the Greeks is not safe from Christ.

Your first paragraph I understand and agree with, she gave birth to that, which was pre existent and eternal, without beginning who was begotten of His Father before all worlds and not made.

I got no idea what you mean with your second statement.
It means that the incarnation is a greater mystery than the borrowed philosophical terminology that we use to describe it.
Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #785 on: November 07, 2011, 03:06:52 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.
It is not. We believe that the Theotokos gave birth to a pre-existent, divine subsistence: The Logos of God. God was conceived. God became a fetus. God was born. God wept. God died.

The Divinity of the Greeks is not safe from Christ.

Your first paragraph I understand and agree with, she gave birth to that, which was pre existent and eternal, without beginning who was begotten of His Father before all worlds and not made.

I got no idea what you mean with your second statement.
It means that the incarnation is a greater mystery than the borrowed philosophical terminology that we use to describe it.

You could've just said that isn't of trying to go all biting aphorism on us. ; )
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #786 on: November 07, 2011, 03:11:09 AM »

It seems as though my Church has been grossly misrepresented here, I am a Lector in the Assyrian Church and will gladly answer any questions regarding the doctrines of my church that you may have.

...we confess the same faith
Do you affirm this statement from the ACotE catechism?:

"35) In what sense can we recognize or acknowledge certain theological terminology used by our beloved sister apostolic churches who will address The Ever Virgin Mary as 'The Mother of God'??

The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why?  Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man.  By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch."

Hi there, this statement refers to the beliefs of the EO, so I would ask you if it is a correct description of EO beliefs.
It is not. We believe that the Theotokos gave birth to a pre-existent, divine subsistence: The Logos of God. God was conceived. God became a fetus. God was born. God wept. God died.

The Divinity of the Greeks is not safe from Christ.

Your first paragraph I understand and agree with, she gave birth to that, which was pre existent and eternal, without beginning who was begotten of His Father before all worlds and not made.

I got no idea what you mean with your second statement.
It means that the incarnation is a greater mystery than the borrowed philosophical terminology that we use to describe it.

Amen.
Logged
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Jerkodox
Posts: 6,955



« Reply #787 on: November 07, 2011, 06:38:35 AM »

What kind of is Assyrian ecclesiology? Do you consider yourselves to be the Catholic and Apostolic church? Do you distribute Eucharist to non-Assyrians?
Logged

Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #788 on: November 07, 2011, 07:05:01 AM »

What kind of is Assyrian ecclesiology? Do you consider yourselves to be the Catholic and Apostolic church? Do you distribute Eucharist to non-Assyrians?

Hi Brother, yes we confess the Nicean creed and that we are a part of the One Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church, we were founded by Mar Mari and Mar Addai according to tradition.

We distribute the Eucharist only to those who have been Baptised in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. During the Litugical prayers we chant for those who have not been baptised to depart (This comes before we start beseeching the Holy Spirit to spiritually turn the Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of our Lord.

The Church of the East had people from all across Asia as part of her, we now have Assyrians and Indians left in the faith.
Logged
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Jerkodox
Posts: 6,955



« Reply #789 on: November 07, 2011, 07:13:51 AM »

Interesting. Thank you for your answer. You seem to be the only ancient Church with not-so-exclusive ecclesiology since EOs, OOs and RCs all identify their own communion as THE church.
Logged

Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #790 on: November 07, 2011, 07:24:20 AM »

Interesting. Thank you for your answer. You seem to be the only ancient Church with not-so-exclusive ecclesiology since EOs, OOs and RCs all identify their own communion as THE church.

Yes, it is interesting isnt it? What did our Lord say "Do not hinder the little ones from coming to me".

We believe the EO, OO and RCC are part of the one true Apostolic Church, this has always been our position.

For e.g I and many of my mates read many writings from the lives of the EO, OO and RCC Saints, these are men and women who loved the Lord and reached a level of sancitifcation that is truly breath taking!
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #791 on: November 07, 2011, 02:43:09 PM »

Interesting. Thank you for your answer. You seem to be the only ancient Church with not-so-exclusive ecclesiology since EOs, OOs and RCs all identify their own communion as THE church.

Yes, it is interesting isnt it? What did our Lord say "Do not hinder the little ones from coming to me".

We believe the EO, OO and RCC are part of the one true Apostolic Church, this has always been our position.

For e.g I and many of my mates read many writings from the lives of the EO, OO and RCC Saints, these are men and women who loved the Lord and reached a level of sancitifcation that is truly breath taking!
So what of the Apostolic teaching that the Church is one?
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #792 on: November 07, 2011, 04:46:17 PM »

Please elaborate papist.
Logged
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #793 on: November 26, 2011, 04:43:07 AM »

So how is everyone? Very quiet on these forums, with 200 million Orthodox you would think there would be much more traffic.

Logged
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #794 on: November 26, 2011, 04:47:35 AM »

So how is everyone? Very quiet on these forums, with 200 million Orthodox you would think there would be much more traffic.

I suspect that most of those 200 million are currently in private vigil or prostrating, thus unable to be on a chat board.

In terms of this thread, we're just waiting for Rafa to return and enlighten us on true ACOE doctrine.  Wink
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #795 on: November 26, 2011, 07:04:00 AM »

We can only pray for that to occur.

Rafa is a good person, just a little over zealous at times.

How are you brother?
Logged
zekarja
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 745


O Holy Prophet Zechariah, intercede to God for us!


« Reply #796 on: November 26, 2011, 09:39:32 AM »

Do Assyrians accept Nestorius' The Bazaar of Heracleides as an orthodox writing? Smiley
Logged

Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #797 on: November 26, 2011, 10:26:10 PM »

Um, I'm not sure to be honest? I don't think it is a canonized piece of writing. But I will find out for you,

Isn't it a simply a defense of his position?
Logged
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,723


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #798 on: November 26, 2011, 10:38:06 PM »

Hi Assyrian Lector,

Are any of Mar Babai the Great's works translated in English for people to read?
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #799 on: November 26, 2011, 10:38:26 PM »

May I ask if Cyril's letters of bribery are viewed as Orthodox? Or do you deny he wrote them?
Logged
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #800 on: November 26, 2011, 10:40:08 PM »

I really want to know why you guys view Cyril as a Saint, history tells us his actions were contrary.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #801 on: November 26, 2011, 11:16:11 PM »

I really want to know why you guys view Cyril as a Saint, history tells us his actions were contrary.
Actions such as?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #802 on: November 26, 2011, 11:25:45 PM »

Bribing his way back into the synod. History details the corruptness in the Alexandrian hierarchy.
Logged
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,092


"My god is greater."


« Reply #803 on: November 26, 2011, 11:26:23 PM »

May I ask if Cyril's letters of bribery are viewed as Orthodox? Or do you deny he wrote them?

It's the first I've heard of these letters (not that I'm an expert on St. Cyril). Could you maybe give some pointers?
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #804 on: November 26, 2011, 11:35:33 PM »

Bribing his way back into the synod. History details the corruptness in the Alexandrian hierarchy.
More corrupt than Constantinople's?  Antioch's?  Seleucia-Ctesiphon's?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #805 on: November 26, 2011, 11:41:47 PM »

May I ask if Cyril's letters of bribery are viewed as Orthodox? Or do you deny he wrote them?

It's the first I've heard of these letters (not that I'm an expert on St. Cyril). Could you maybe give some pointers?
St. Cyril of Alexandria Letters 51-110 By St Cyril of Alexandria
http://books.google.com/books?id=7-NktOwEjYMC&pg=PA151&dq=%22A+catalogue+of+things+dispatched+from+here%22&hl=en#v=onepage&q=%22A%20catalogue%20of%20things%20dispatched%20from%20here%22&f=false
You want proof? The 96th letter of the corpus of his writings details every single bribe he sent to Constantinople.

Go here to read how he got his church in debt by embezzling:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=7-NktOwEjYMC&pg=PR6&lpg=PR6&dq=letters+of+Cyril+of+Alexandria+96+gifts&source=bl&ots=JKbl75E3Rq&sig=wov--iziBT5SIyWA5KAmxr1K0cM&hl=en&ei=AO0yS_zlDpG2lAe8o8ybBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false


"letter" number 96.
Well, a letter detailing who he sent bribes to in Constantinople signed by his own hand seems pretty conclusive to me.
But as I have already said at least once, maybe more, is that I don't care what's conclusive to you if you can't prove it to us.  In a debate, WE are the persons you need to convince, not yourself.

I can't doubt my lying eyes as Groucho Marx once said. The letter is there...
I know we have seen a summary of the letter, but have we seen the actual text?  St. Cyril hardly needed to bribe anyone, as he had the support of Pulcheria, but then again he brought the monk mob.  St. John had already complained about gifts flowing to the capital, so I question how much the list can be conisdered "bribes."
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 11:48:03 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #806 on: November 26, 2011, 11:44:33 PM »

Hi Brother, yes we confess the Nicean creed and that we are a part of the One Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church, we were founded by Mar Mari and Mar Addai according to tradition.
What's wrong with this statement?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #807 on: November 26, 2011, 11:45:51 PM »

So you admit he bribed people or not? I understand that my God hates those who bribe, how then is this man a saint?
Logged
Assyrian Lector
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Church of the East
Jurisdiction: Assyrian
Posts: 31


« Reply #808 on: November 26, 2011, 11:46:32 PM »

Hi Brother, yes we confess the Nicean creed and that we are a part of the One Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church, we were founded by Mar Mari and Mar Addai according to tradition.
What's wrong with this statement?

You tell me.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #809 on: November 26, 2011, 11:55:49 PM »

So you admit he bribed people or not? I understand that my God hates those who bribe, how then is this man a saint?
Were can we start?

Did Abraham's servant bribe Laban? Did Jacob bribe Esau?  Did Jacob bribe Pharaoh?

Did Constantine bribe the Council of Nicea?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Tags: Church of the East Assyrian Aramaic Theodore of Mopsuestia icons Christology 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.15 seconds with 72 queries.