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Author Topic: Orthodox Study Bible  (Read 15187 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2003, 12:00:29 PM »

The LXX.org site (Thomas Nelson OSB) clearly indicates the methodology they use (http://www.lxx.org/qa_d1.htm):

"Q: Why is another translation of the Bible needed?

A: Take a look at what we are doing. The Old Testament of the Orthodox Church is that which it has been from the beginning the Septuagint, that Greek version already in use when Christ came. It was the Bible used by him and the Apostles. The King James Version and other English language versions are made from the Masoretic Hebrew text which dates from about the 9th century A.D. Our translation of the Septuagint is essential for Orthodox Christians in America. Not only that, but we are making a Study Bible, with Orthodox notes throughout.

Q: Is the LXX project a complete translation of the Septuagint into modern English? It seems like that would be a much larger project than I see here.

A: You see as thorough a translation as that to be found anywhere. We are taking the New King James Version as a starting point -- "boilerplate" you might say -- and changing it everywhere it is different from the Septuagint. The result will indeed be a Septuagint translation. "

Thus, where the NKJV text does not adequately reflect the LXX, they will change the NKJV text (including translating parts of verses left out of the MT, for example many places in Proverbs).  The Psalms, it is clear, will reflect the LXX.

My priest is a translator, commentator on the OSB project, and is responsible, as I understand it, for the Psalsm.  He has written the book Christ in the Psalms, from Conciliar Press.
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« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2003, 12:13:43 PM »

As a follow up to some previous comments . . .

I've heard the accusation that the OSB is either not an Orthodox work or is less Orthodox than Protestant.

Can anyone give specific points that show the OSB to be Protestant?

(I'm sorry if this has been addressed on this board elsewhere, in which case if someone could point me to the discussion, I'd be grateful.)
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« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2003, 05:14:39 PM »

Curiouser and curiouser...

Curious:
The Orthodox New Testament many are raving about is published by (pardon me, Mor Ephrem) ... OH I CAN'T SAY IT! http://www.buenavistaco.com/GOC/HRDPUB.HTM

Curiouser:
just went to Allbookstores.com to check out the Orthodox New Testament http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0944359175.

They (Allbookstore) categorized it under "Subjects : Religion : Judaism : Orthodox!"

LOL!

David

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« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2003, 05:23:32 AM »

Curious:
The Orthodox New Testament many are raving about is published by (pardon me, Mor Ephrem) ... OH I CAN'T SAY IT! http://www.buenavistaco.com/GOC/HRDPUB.HTM

As Saint Basil instructed his students, "take only the honey" Smiley

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« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2003, 10:11:22 AM »

I'm not sure if you can consider this a "Study Bible" or not but I like to read "The Bible and The Holy Fathers". It was compiled by Johanna Manley. I like it because for most of the readings you get  more than one Holy Father's  comments on it. That way if one of these commentaries is a little vague the other should shed some light on it.

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« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2010, 10:57:13 PM »

When will we see an online version of the OSB?
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« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2010, 01:37:55 PM »

When will we see an online version of the OSB?

I would love to see a pocket version of OSB, too. I know there's the translation from Holy Apostles, but I do better if I work off of one text. Like with the Psalms: choose one translation and stick with it. Otherwise, the meaning doesn't seep in as well. (Plus, the HAC version sometimes leaves me wondering what on earth they are trying to say, and not because the ideas are abstruse, but because the language doesn't scan.)
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« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2010, 01:49:41 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)
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« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2010, 01:52:32 PM »

In the recent past I have found it easier to read things online. That is why I would like to see an OSB online, complete with keyword options
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« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2010, 02:31:11 PM »

I'm still waiting for an Orthodox study Bible.
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« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2010, 02:36:55 PM »

I hope before Christmas to get the OSB for my Nook (eBook).
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« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2010, 02:48:08 PM »

In the recent past I have found it easier to read things online. That is why I would like to see an OSB online, complete with keyword options

It's definitely easier to find things in online Bibles. That's pretty much a copyright issue. The NKJV is on BibleGateway.com, so it would seem that Thomas Nelson is not opposed to releasing their translations for online consumption.

My guess is that none of these things (additional translations besides the OSB, different form factors and media, etc) is all about simple demand. There simply isn't enough demand for Orthodox Bibles in English-speaking countries for people or companies to invest the time or money needed to "compete" with other translations.

Maybe when the Glorious Unification happens, the Church will pool its resources and put together a Church-sponsored common translation for all English-speaking Orthodox Christians to use.
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« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2010, 03:40:22 PM »

I do better if I work off of one text. Like with the Psalms: choose one translation and stick with it.

Couldn't agree more, especially with the Psalms in terms of prayer.

But I am so nit-picky I can't settle on any one. Should stay with the KJV, since it rings in my head anyhow. Just find it wanting in many places, especially for "musicality". The Coverdale translation always strikes me as lovely, but I have not spent much time with it.



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« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2010, 03:50:29 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

I am surprised you would choose the NRSV. I understand your desire to have the "apocrypha" even if partially, but I do think the flaws in this version truly outweigh the improvement over the RSV. I have one I use in study. NRSV especially without footnotes can offer some rather non-Christological readings of the OT and arguably the NT.

The "inclusive language" does improve the accuracy of a few passages, but obfuscates many others.

If you have read my opinion on English version of the Bible, you might be surprised I would have this negative opinion of this version. I just can't imagine using it as my primary version. For the "young woman" vs. "virgin" controversy (which is of little concern to me).

Here is the first verse of the first Psalm:

Happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or take the path that sinners tread, or sit in the seat of scoffers

See the problem with bolded part? This is just crazy IMHO. I am certain you know the typical rendering of this verse and its some of the meaning gleaned from the choice of how to translate the subject here.

This problem is legion in the NRSV.

But nice to have, especially a critical edition for study in conjunction with other versions.

If you can stand the RSV there are "complete" versions of it and the 1611 "KJV" has the same books as the canon of the RCC.

FWIW.
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« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2010, 04:51:13 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

I am surprised you would choose the NRSV. I understand your desire to have the "apocrypha" even if partially, but I do think the flaws in this version truly outweigh the improvement over the RSV. I have one I use in study. NRSV especially without footnotes can offer some rather non-Christological readings of the OT and arguably the NT.

The "inclusive language" does improve the accuracy of a few passages, but obfuscates many others.

If you have read my opinion on English version of the Bible, you might be surprised I would have this negative opinion of this version. I just can't imagine using it as my primary version. For the "young woman" vs. "virgin" controversy (which is of little concern to me).

Here is the first verse of the first Psalm:

Happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or take the path that sinners tread, or sit in the seat of scoffers

See the problem with bolded part? This is just crazy IMHO. I am certain you know the typical rendering of this verse and its some of the meaning gleaned from the choice of how to translate the subject here.

This problem is legion in the NRSV.

But nice to have, especially a critical edition for study in conjunction with other versions.

If you can stand the RSV there are "complete" versions of it and the 1611 "KJV" has the same books as the canon of the RCC.

FWIW.

I was not aware of the translation issues with the NRSV. I guess it's back to the drawing board.

But some of the NRSV's I've seen are so nice, with nice typography and the leather covers. And it's just a little thing, but it irritates me that they put the "apocrypha" off in a separate section in most Bibles that include the books.

And yet, I suppose the inclusion of the deuterocanonical books isn't everything. The other books would still be based on the MT, and there are a host of differences there. Heck, the LXX orders the book differently than most Protestant-friendly Bibles.

Perhaps the OSB is the only choice for a complete Orthodox Bible (old and new testaments) based on the LXX. The issues of being 0.7% of the population...
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« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2010, 04:58:51 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

I am surprised you would choose the NRSV. I understand your desire to have the "apocrypha" even if partially, but I do think the flaws in this version truly outweigh the improvement over the RSV. I have one I use in study. NRSV especially without footnotes can offer some rather non-Christological readings of the OT and arguably the NT.

The "inclusive language" does improve the accuracy of a few passages, but obfuscates many others.

If you have read my opinion on English version of the Bible, you might be surprised I would have this negative opinion of this version. I just can't imagine using it as my primary version. For the "young woman" vs. "virgin" controversy (which is of little concern to me).

Here is the first verse of the first Psalm:

Happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or take the path that sinners tread, or sit in the seat of scoffers

See the problem with bolded part? This is just crazy IMHO. I am certain you know the typical rendering of this verse and its some of the meaning gleaned from the choice of how to translate the subject here.

This problem is legion in the NRSV.

But nice to have, especially a critical edition for study in conjunction with other versions.

If you can stand the RSV there are "complete" versions of it and the 1611 "KJV" has the same books as the canon of the RCC.

FWIW.

I was not aware of the translation issues with the NRSV. I guess it's back to the drawing board.

But some of the NRSV's I've seen are so nice, with nice typography and the leather covers. And it's just a little thing, but it irritates me that they put the "apocrypha" off in a separate section in most Bibles that include the books.

And yet, I suppose the inclusion of the deuterocanonical books isn't everything. The other books would still be based on the MT, and there are a host of differences there. Heck, the LXX orders the book differently than most Protestant-friendly Bibles.

Perhaps the OSB is the only choice for a complete Orthodox Bible (old and new testaments) based on the LXX. The issues of being 0.7% of the population...

My wife got me and OSB as a chrismation gift. I love it and from what I can tell, most of the problems that many had with it have been fixed (such as Psalms being the MT with Protestant numbering as it is now LXX with "proper" numbering). I'm sure a more suitable translation can be made, but I am not aware of any currently in print - that is not to say that one does not exist.
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« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2010, 05:04:15 PM »

A pocket version would be nice

I would enjoy that. I would also love to see a nice pocket Psalter. Holy Transfiguration Monastery has a "pocket" Psalter, and it's portable, but definitely not pocket-size.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the little Gideon Bibles that are the NT with Psalms and Proverbs. Just a nice little Psalter translated from an LXX text and broken into kathismata. I think that would be nice. Just saying.
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« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2010, 05:05:52 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

I'm going to have to agree with orthonorm about avoiding the NRSV, but on the additional grounds that it lacks any real sense of poetry. "Spirit" is almost always translated as "wind"; overly literal to provide clarity for modern readers (READ: STUPID-SPEAK), such as firmament being instead the "dome" of the sky, Behold a pale green horse, etc. It's much more about being understandable than being dignified or actually Holy. Also, as he noted, this thing is too politically correct for its own good, so anything Christological in the Old Testament is given a neutral rendering to allow for the pre-Christian "Jewish" understanding. It's certainly not worthless, but I think most of it is questionable.

On the other hand, I actually don't mind an academic Bible. While orthonorm seems to have no love for the RSV, I think it is really quite well done, and I recommend you buy The New Oxford Annotated Bible with "Apocrypha" RSV. Yes, it has study notes, but they're very minimal and really serve to provide clarification on textual issues. Here's a link if you want to consider it:

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Apocrypha-Standard-Expanded-Hardcover/dp/0195283481

I think the translation is great and the footnotes have all the variants know at the last pressing in the late 70's. It is also Ecumenical in that it is approved for liturgical use and personal study in Orthodox, Roman Catholic and most Protestant churches. Some of the scholarship in the notes is not compatible with an Orthodox ethos, but any of that is really quite minimal and I don't see any real damage coming from those minor areas anyway.

I mostly find the notes in the Orthodox Study Bible to be banal and irritating. There's notes for everything, and they're completely repetitive. Ruth lays down with Boaz, just like we lay down dead with Christ in baptism, and He tells us what to do just as Boaz tells Ruth what to do. ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?! I know typology can get out of hand sometimes, but this stuff is sometimes downright moronic. That being said, I mean no disrespect to the OSB and all the love and effort that went into it. I use the text quite often and I think overall it's a huge asset to Orthodox in America and was an absolute necessity to create.

So get whatever you want to, but for me at this time the Oxford RSV is becoming my standard for Bible reading. Excellent textual scholarship on variants, excellent poetical translation of songs, and even if you don't want notes these are really valuable if you are in any way historically critically inclined.
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« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

I am surprised you would choose the NRSV. I understand your desire to have the "apocrypha" even if partially, but I do think the flaws in this version truly outweigh the improvement over the RSV. I have one I use in study. NRSV especially without footnotes can offer some rather non-Christological readings of the OT and arguably the NT.

The "inclusive language" does improve the accuracy of a few passages, but obfuscates many others.

If you have read my opinion on English version of the Bible, you might be surprised I would have this negative opinion of this version. I just can't imagine using it as my primary version. For the "young woman" vs. "virgin" controversy (which is of little concern to me).

Here is the first verse of the first Psalm:

Happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or take the path that sinners tread, or sit in the seat of scoffers

See the problem with bolded part? This is just crazy IMHO. I am certain you know the typical rendering of this verse and its some of the meaning gleaned from the choice of how to translate the subject here.

This problem is legion in the NRSV.

But nice to have, especially a critical edition for study in conjunction with other versions.

If you can stand the RSV there are "complete" versions of it and the 1611 "KJV" has the same books as the canon of the RCC.

FWIW.

I was not aware of the translation issues with the NRSV. I guess it's back to the drawing board.

But some of the NRSV's I've seen are so nice, with nice typography and the leather covers. And it's just a little thing, but it irritates me that they put the "apocrypha" off in a separate section in most Bibles that include the books.

And yet, I suppose the inclusion of the deuterocanonical books isn't everything. The other books would still be based on the MT, and there are a host of differences there. Heck, the LXX orders the book differently than most Protestant-friendly Bibles.

Perhaps the OSB is the only choice for a complete Orthodox Bible (old and new testaments) based on the LXX. The issues of being 0.7% of the population...

The Catholic Church puts out a RSV of their canon that doesn't require all the flipping, IIRC.

When it comes to Christological typology in the OT, the NRSV does a disservice with its use of inclusive language. I like the version and use as a study aid as someone whose Greek is terrible.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, when it come to my daily reading, I enjoy more than anything a single column, paragraph edition. The NKJV is not bad and there is an edition that has great titling of the "sections" within each book. The only notes are your typical alternate readings.

This is what I use day to day, at work or wherever I am and don't want to haul out some massive heavy difficult to read text:

http://www.amazon.com/NKJV-Single-Column-Bible-Thomas-Nelson/dp/1418542539/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

It is cheap, no leather. The cover takes abuse well and doesn't draw attention to itself, which may not be an issue for you.

The pages are that onionskin style. Hard to make a reasonably sized Bible without them.

Looking for something like the above with just the Gospels and Psalms, since that is what am reading 73% of the time.

FWIW.
 
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« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2010, 05:28:52 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

I'm going to have to agree with orthonorm about avoiding the NRSV, but on the additional grounds that it lacks any real sense of poetry. "Spirit" is almost always translated as "wind"; overly literal to provide clarity for modern readers (READ: STUPID-SPEAK), such as firmament being instead the "dome" of the sky, Behold a pale green horse, etc. It's much more about being understandable than being dignified or actually Holy. Also, as he noted, this thing is too politically correct for its own good, so anything Christological in the Old Testament is given a neutral rendering to allow for the pre-Christian "Jewish" understanding. It's certainly not worthless, but I think most of it is questionable.

On the other hand, I actually don't mind an academic Bible. While orthonorm seems to have no love for the RSV, I think it is really quite well done, and I recommend you buy The New Oxford Annotated Bible with "Apocrypha" RSV. Yes, it has study notes, but they're very minimal and really serve to provide clarification on textual issues. Here's a link if you want to consider it:

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Apocrypha-Standard-Expanded-Hardcover/dp/0195283481

I think the translation is great and the footnotes have all the variants know at the last pressing in the late 70's. It is also Ecumenical in that it is approved for liturgical use and personal study in Orthodox, Roman Catholic and most Protestant churches. Some of the scholarship in the notes is not compatible with an Orthodox ethos, but any of that is really quite minimal and I don't see any real damage coming from those minor areas anyway.

I mostly find the notes in the Orthodox Study Bible to be banal and irritating. There's notes for everything, and they're completely repetitive. Ruth lays down with Boaz, just like we lay down dead with Christ in baptism, and He tells us what to do just as Boaz tells Ruth what to do. ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?! I know typology can get out of hand sometimes, but this stuff is sometimes downright moronic. That being said, I mean no disrespect to the OSB and all the love and effort that went into it. I use the text quite often and I think overall it's a huge asset to Orthodox in America and was an absolute necessity to create.

So get whatever you want to, but for me at this time the Oxford RSV is becoming my standard for Bible reading. Excellent textual scholarship on variants, excellent poetical translation of songs, and even if you don't want notes these are really valuable if you are in any way historically critically inclined.

OK. First, maybe I don't write English. I've suggest the exact edition of the RSV you recommend for Bible study. I use it in conjunction with with NKJV for 83% of my Bible reading / study. The Oxford RSV comes out with the notes when doing some light study and comparison with the NKJV.

So if I have given the impression that I have no love for the RSV, then I have been unclear although I have explicitly recommended it.

Having grown up on the KJV though, the RSV as Bible to read daily seems to be a poor marriage of the language of KJV and more contemporary English. But the version is great.

Alveus,

I agree obviously with some of what you say about the OT in NRSV, as I have already said it.  Wink

And I agree with the lack of poetic quality. But hearing wind, breath, spirit, etc. through a variety of versions communicated more clearly what is suggested. The Hebrew and Greek agree with these meanings. This is why I think for study a couple versions are handy.

For single use, again the NRSV is to be avoided.

However, I do think it gets a bad rap about being too "Jewish". I think Christianity, Orthodox or otherwise, has suffered severely from divorcing itself too much from its semitic albeit Hellenistic influenced origins. And I think we agree Jews have as well. And really the whole what "OT" did the writers of the "NT" use is very complicated and ultimately too unclear an issue to come down on a single set much less version or even translation.

Spot on with the Christological typology. But sometimes it is the NRSV which is the greatest help in trying to make sense of some the Scripture, for me.

But I would definitely not recommend it to anyone who isn't sensitive to these matters.

To be clear, as if it matters what I do:

Daily Reading: NKJV
Light Study: Oxford RSV and NKJV and NRSV
More Serious Study: The whole kitchen sink: podcasts, books, many English versions, commentaries, homilies, etc.

Again FWIW.

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« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2010, 06:01:35 PM »

orthonorm: Sorry, I obviously read too much into the statement "If you can stand the RSV..."
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« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2010, 06:11:20 PM »

orthonorm: Sorry, I obviously read too much into the statement "If you can stand the RSV..."

No problem, I figured as much. It was poorly worded. I just rarely hear many folks who like the RSV as a "devotional" Bible.

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« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2010, 06:25:46 PM »

No problem, I figured as much. It was poorly worded. I just rarely hear many folks who like the RSV as a "devotional" Bible.

Well, I wouldn't consider my use of it to be "devotional." I am using it to trek through the Old Testament Torah and history books like the Books of the Kingdoms, Chronicles, etc. I haven't actually spent any time with the New Testament in it, which is where I consider the "devotional" material to really be. I mostly consider a good portion of the Old Testament to be reading history books, so my posture is more academic in trying to keep straight dates, locations, characters and their lineages, etc. Once I hit Job and the Prophets, however, everything becomes much more internal. I'm not sure how the RSV will stack up in those situations.
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« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2010, 06:28:35 PM »

I'll echo what Alveus said, the NOAB RSV with Expanded Apocrypha is my Bible of choice, great translation and they include in verses that are missing in a normal RSV. Also for example in Isaiah 7:14 it talks about the messiah being born from a "young woman" but there is a footnote that says "or virgin". I believe they will have footnotes where it will say "In Greek or Hebrew this verse could say.." I enjoy the essays in the back and pretty nice, but brief, introductions to the books of the Bible
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« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2010, 06:39:47 PM »

I'll echo what Alveus said, the NOAB RSV with Expanded Apocrypha is my Bible of choice, great translation and they include in verses that are missing in a normal RSV.

Also, I want to note that they do make it in a genuine leather, because I seem to recall bogdan expressing interest in that:

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Apocrypha-Revised-Standard-Expanded/dp/019528335X/ref=tmm_hrd_title_1

I personally find the hardcover sturdier and it looks classy and simple if you pull off the ugly dustcover.
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« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2010, 06:45:35 PM »

I'll echo what Alveus said, the NOAB RSV with Expanded Apocrypha is my Bible of choice, great translation and they include in verses that are missing in a normal RSV.

Also, I want to note that they do make it in a genuine leather, because I seem to recall bogdan expressing interest in that:

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Apocrypha-Revised-Standard-Expanded/dp/019528335X/ref=tmm_hrd_title_1

I personally find the hardcover sturdier and it looks classy and simple if you pull off the ugly dustcover.

Hate dustcovers.

The hardcover has held up for forever being dragged around in my backpack and treated to all kindsa abuse.
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« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2010, 07:04:39 PM »

I'll echo what Alveus said, the NOAB RSV with Expanded Apocrypha is my Bible of choice, great translation and they include in verses that are missing in a normal RSV.

Also, I want to note that they do make it in a genuine leather, because I seem to recall bogdan expressing interest in that:

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Apocrypha-Revised-Standard-Expanded/dp/019528335X/ref=tmm_hrd_title_1

I personally find the hardcover sturdier and it looks classy and simple if you pull off the ugly dustcover.

Yeah the hardcover is awesome without that terrible dustcover. Any pictures on that leatherbound? Just curious, but I love how the hardcover just lays completley flat.
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« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2010, 08:42:28 PM »

I'll echo what Alveus said, the NOAB RSV with Expanded Apocrypha is my Bible of choice, great translation and they include in verses that are missing in a normal RSV.

Also, I want to note that they do make it in a genuine leather, because I seem to recall bogdan expressing interest in that:

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Apocrypha-Revised-Standard-Expanded/dp/019528335X/ref=tmm_hrd_title_1

I personally find the hardcover sturdier and it looks classy and simple if you pull off the ugly dustcover.

Yeah the hardcover is awesome without that terrible dustcover. Any pictures on that leatherbound? Just curious, but I love how the hardcover just lays completley flat.

The leather-bound is illustrated, too. Same icons as the hard cover. It also lies nice and flat, it's just too big to be portable.
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« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2010, 08:45:53 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

Oxford University Press puts out a nice portable Catholic Bible. It's my second choice when I don't have room to carry OSB. They make a matching King James edition, as well. (Not RSV.)
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« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2010, 08:49:52 PM »

A pocket version would be nice, or I would like to see a non-study Bible version of the OSB. Just the text and some footnotes, like regular pew Bibles. I actually don't want all the study notes. I'm close to just getting a Catholic NRSV because I don't want a study Bible. It doesn't have 3 Maccabees, but it has the rest (well, except for 4 Maccabees and 3 Esdras/Apocalypse of Ezra, but the OSB doesn't have those either)

I am surprised you would choose the NRSV. I understand your desire to have the "apocrypha" even if partially, but I do think the flaws in this version truly outweigh the improvement over the RSV. I have one I use in study. NRSV especially without footnotes can offer some rather non-Christological readings of the OT and arguably the NT.

The "inclusive language" does improve the accuracy of a few passages, but obfuscates many others.

If you have read my opinion on English version of the Bible, you might be surprised I would have this negative opinion of this version. I just can't imagine using it as my primary version. For the "young woman" vs. "virgin" controversy (which is of little concern to me).

Here is the first verse of the first Psalm:

Happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or take the path that sinners tread, or sit in the seat of scoffers

See the problem with bolded part? This is just crazy IMHO. I am certain you know the typical rendering of this verse and its some of the meaning gleaned from the choice of how to translate the subject here.

This problem is legion in the NRSV.

But nice to have, especially a critical edition for study in conjunction with other versions.

If you can stand the RSV there are "complete" versions of it and the 1611 "KJV" has the same books as the canon of the RCC.

FWIW.

I was not aware of the translation issues with the NRSV. I guess it's back to the drawing board.

But some of the NRSV's I've seen are so nice, with nice typography and the leather covers. And it's just a little thing, but it irritates me that they put the "apocrypha" off in a separate section in most Bibles that include the books.

And yet, I suppose the inclusion of the deuterocanonical books isn't everything. The other books would still be based on the MT, and there are a host of differences there. Heck, the LXX orders the book differently than most Protestant-friendly Bibles.

Perhaps the OSB is the only choice for a complete Orthodox Bible (old and new testaments) based on the LXX. The issues of being 0.7% of the population...

The Catholic Church puts out a RSV of their canon that doesn't require all the flipping, IIRC.

When it comes to Christological typology in the OT, the NRSV does a disservice with its use of inclusive language. I like the version and use as a study aid as someone whose Greek is terrible.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, when it come to my daily reading, I enjoy more than anything a single column, paragraph edition. The NKJV is not bad and there is an edition that has great titling of the "sections" within each book. The only notes are your typical alternate readings.

This is what I use day to day, at work or wherever I am and don't want to haul out some massive heavy difficult to read text:

http://www.amazon.com/NKJV-Single-Column-Bible-Thomas-Nelson/dp/1418542539/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

It is cheap, no leather. The cover takes abuse well and doesn't draw attention to itself, which may not be an issue for you.

The pages are that onionskin style. Hard to make a reasonably sized Bible without them.

Looking for something like the above with just the Gospels and Psalms, since that is what am reading 73% of the time.

FWIW.
 

The notes in the large-format edition by Holy Apostles Convent has pretty good notes. They're at the back of each book. I, too, am disappointed in the quality of the notes in OSB.
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« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2010, 08:56:00 PM »

I also use the Stone Edition of the Chumash (Torah with comments) and Tanakh (OT with comments), besides the old Brenton Septuagint and an interlinear Greek-English NT. For beauty, though, I still gotta go back to King James or Tyndale/Coverdale. There's a lovely 1611 facsimile of KJ with Apochrypha with original orthography. Not for everyone, it's a little fussy, but I find it beautiful.

I guess I'm kind of averaging things out. It would be nice to have just one edition one could have confidence in.
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« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2010, 09:03:21 PM »

I can't remember if I mentioned this in another thread already, but...

At our Archdiocesan Clergy-Laity, when the question of, "Can the Churches stock Orthodox bibles to give out to people who visit," came up, and led to the inevitable discussion of, "Which translation/the OSB is too expensive," His Eminence Archbishop DEMETRIOS (who was a New Testament professor) suggested the RSV and NKJV for study and reflection (I just don't remember which one he said was for study and which for reflection... sorry!).  But he stated that we're in the planning stages of doing an actual, honest to goodness, new translation from the Orthodox Church's liturgical text of the scripture (i.e. not from one of the Manuscripts, or from Nestle-Aland).
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« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2011, 01:15:41 AM »

I got a copy of the OSB since, from what I knew then (and now) it’s the only complete LXX translation in English. My old Serbian language bible translated by Vuk himself is a protestant one in terms of the texts that are included. I read that too, and I started to translate Philemon recently from Serbian into English to see how close I could get to the OSB, and to practice old 1800s-style Serbian, just for fun. I may try more of this if time allows. I compare OSB to RSV and NRSV now and then, but right now, for me OSB works even though it's not the best. When someone else makes a complete LXX translation I will get that and use it. I guess my biggest point is that the OSB made it easier for me to read the bible daily, and that is very important to me fight now. Since there no 'official' English Orthodox bible its good enough for me in particular since it helps me meditate a bit.


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« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2011, 01:37:59 AM »

A correction to my post: the New Testament is from Vuk and the old I am referring to is from Dancicic, Vuk's collaborator. Smiley
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« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2011, 01:46:05 AM »

The OSB has its strengths and weaknesses. The strengths are that it: (1.) It uses all Greek Texts. (2.) It has Church Fathers in it and is Orthodox. (3.) It has a beautiful cover.
The weaknesses is this that it: (1.) It uses all Protestant translations. (2.) It needs more quotes of Church Fathers (3.) The paper is so thin its almost like kleenex.

There is a "Eastern Orthodox Bible" (EOB) of which the New Testament has been released. On their web-site they say the Old Testament would be finished by 2011, but the disappointing thing is that I emailed the head editor of the project and he said, "Frankly, I do not see it being completed in 2011 – too few volunteers, too much work…"

Many should be aware of this bible by now: http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/eob/
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« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2011, 07:22:15 PM »

Does anyone know of a good edition of the Septuagint? I've heard very mixed reviews of the new edition that came out recently, but the old one leaves a lot to be desired.
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« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2011, 07:31:21 PM »

Does anyone know of a good edition of the Septuagint? I've heard very mixed reviews of the new edition that came out recently, but the old one leaves a lot to be desired.
Personally I don't know, I'm waiting for the EOB to complete its OT translation from the Septuagint but that's going to be awhile. I've read parts of the Brenton and NETS but they have their problems. I think it's impossible to get a perfect translation into English.

It would be lovely if the Orthodox Study Bible was in RSV or even using their own Orthodox translation. Maybe one day.
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« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2011, 07:36:01 PM »

Does anyone know of a good edition of the Septuagint? I've heard very mixed reviews of the new edition that came out recently, but the old one leaves a lot to be desired.
Personally I don't know, I'm waiting for the EOB to complete its OT translation from the Septuagint but that's going to be awhile. I've read parts of the Brenton and NETS but they have their problems. I think it's impossible to get a perfect translation into English.

It would be lovely if the Orthodox Study Bible was in RSV or even using their own Orthodox translation. Maybe one day.

I have a copy of the Breton translation on my laptop that I used before I got my OSB - I liked it but it was lacking in the translation a bit. The one thing I loved was the LXX next the MT so you can see where things differ between the two versions. My OSB is what I primarily use even though many are not happy with the translation, and I will probably stick with it even after other versions come out.
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« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2011, 07:46:41 PM »

The differences are quite a bit, that's why I do like my NOAB RSV which has generous footnotes on Greek translations on certain verses. Like the "young woman" being a "virgin" in Isaiah.
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« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2011, 08:08:03 PM »

There's a lovely 1611 facsimile of KJ with Apochrypha with original orthography. Not for everyone, it's a little fussy, but I find it beautiful.

This is the Blackletter font right (Gothic type)? Where can I purchase this? You'd think for it being a 400th anniversary they wouldn't just use the Roman facsimile.
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« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2011, 10:00:10 PM »

It would be lovely if the Orthodox Study Bible was in RSV or even using their own Orthodox translation. Maybe one day.
But the OSB is an Orthodox translation of the LXX. The NT is NKJV; I, too, am looking forward to an Orthodox translation to complement the OT of the OSB.
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« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2011, 10:02:26 PM »

Right but it uses the NKJV framework for the LXX if I'm not mistaken. What I meant to say is using a translation template (outside of Protestant ones) that is more in line with Orthodox "language".
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« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2011, 10:12:41 PM »

Right but it uses the NKJV framework for the LXX if I'm not mistaken. What I meant to say is using a translation template (outside of Protestant ones) that is more in line with Orthodox "language".
I do understand your point. Translation is as much an art as a science and as such reflects the bias of the translator/s (or perhaps more correctly the benefactors of the project  Wink). But given that there never has been a definitive translation done by the Orthodox into English, I doubt that there is such a template that would avoid the controversies that surround the OSB.
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« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2011, 10:24:59 PM »

True enough, it basically comes down to no "template" could ever be perfect however we should strive to get something that is pretty accurate and faithful to the text. You know you don't want something as scarilegous as the Living Bible or the Message  Cheesy
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« Reply #89 on: February 13, 2011, 12:51:40 AM »

I've mentioned this in a bunch of other places, but Michael Asser has produced a KJV-style Septuagint translation. It's available online here: http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/zot.htm

He needs proofreaders though- if you have time, consider getting in touch with him and helping out. When everything is ready he'll get it printed- probably starting with lulu.com, unless some publishers express interest.

Michael Asser produced the Psalter currently published by the Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies. It's a beautiful volume and my favorite Psalter currently in print.

Currently he is working on revising the KJV New Testament to conform with the standard Greek Orthodox text.
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