Author Topic: Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?  (Read 2645 times)

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Offline Robert

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Offline The young fogey

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2003, 10:44:42 AM »
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OPF draws deeply from the ideology of the secular peace movement—so much so that the two are often indistinguishable.

Frank Schaeffer has drunk deeply from the ideology of the American neoconservatives, as has the Protestant religious right from which he comes, so much so that the two are often indistinguishable.

Funny, both these guys belong to the Greek Orthodox archdiocese in the US, nominally the country's biggest Orthodox group - the same one that gave a church award to proabortion US Sen. Paul Sarbanes in Maryland.

The OPF:

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GǪSaddam Hussein is an enemy of the United States

No, he's not - not a threat to the US.
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Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2003, 10:48:00 AM »
No, he's not - not a threat to the US.

Nope. He's not.


Not anymore at least. :D
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Offline MartinIntlStud

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2003, 08:22:13 PM »
I would not contend that the Orthodox Peace Fellowship is laughable. I would argue that OrthodoxyToday.org follows to closely a political ideology that sometimes contradicts the teachings of the Church. The OPF is pointing out that war is wrong, and the Church does teach this and it is only deemed necessary when a country is invaded(which we weren't). It is also contending that the US did not use enough diplomacy in attempt to prevent the war, I would agree with this.

"Some Orthodox Christians calling themselves "The Council for the Orthodox Peace Fellowship in North America" have circulated an antiwar declaration harshly condemning the U.S. government's policies in Iraq"-Schaeffer

So has Metropolitan PHILLIP, Metropolitan ANTHONY, Patriarch BARTHOLEMEW, Patriarch ALEXY, and Patriarch IGNATIUS, to name a few. I cannnot consider an anti-war stance "laughable" or rediculous.

Offline Linus7

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2003, 08:42:25 PM »
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From Schaeffer's article: In this "peace statement" the authors call all soldiers who kill in battle murderers, no matter what the cause. They accuse our country of using "any means" to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

If Schaeffer is right, then whoever signed such a statement made a mistake or flat out lied.

I do not know what bishops could be involved in such a peace movement, but if they are getting their info through the filter of the European press, they are undoubtedly misinformed and the victims of anti-U.S. propaganda.

My wife is Russian and reads Pravda and other Russian news services via the internet daily. You would be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) at the utter crap that passes for news over there. It is strongly anti-U.S.

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Offline MartinIntlStud

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2003, 08:44:09 PM »
I've read over that statement many times before and after I read the Schaeffer article, and I couldn't find anywhere where it calls US/Coalition soldiers murderers.

Offline Linus7

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2003, 08:52:15 PM »
I've read over that statement many times before and after I read the Schaeffer article, and I couldn't find anywhere where it calls US/Coalition soldiers murderers.

Have you got a link to the statement?

I would like to read it, too.
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Offline MartinIntlStud

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2003, 09:05:22 PM »
www.incommunion.org is the OPF's website. They have a collection of statements from them and various leaders of the Church.

Offline Linus7

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2003, 09:23:35 PM »
Thanks, Martin.

I found this part of the statement A Plea for Peace from the Orthodox Peace Fellowship in North America disturbing:

Because we seek the reconciliation of enemies, a conversion which grows from striving to be faithful to the Gospel, the Orthodox Church has never regarded any war as just or good, and fighting an elusive enemy by means which cause the death of innocent people can be regarded only as murder. Individual murderers are treated by psychiatrists and priests and isolated from society. But who heals the national psyche, the wounded soul of a nation, when it is untroubled by the slaughter of non-combatant civilians?

First, I do not believe the statement is true, and second, it is typical leftist rhetoric.

The Orthodox Church has never regarded any war as just or good?

Even the defense of Constantinople against the Turks?

Even the fight for Greek independence?

Even the Russian fight for freedom from Mongol oppression?

Thirdly, a parallel is drawn between U.S. military actions and murder.

. . . fighting an elusive enemy by means which cause the death of innocent people can be regarded only as murder. Individual murderers are treated by psychiatrists and priests and isolated from society. But who heals the national psyche, the wounded soul of a nation, when it is untroubled by the slaughter of non-combatant civilians?

Who says we are "untroubled by the slaughter of non-combatant civilians"?

And since when has our military been involved in their "slaughter" (a loaded word)?

I am only a lowly layman, but I agree with Schaeffer and Jacobse. I think those who signed such a statement are sadly deluded.

I don't think we went after Saddam by "any means necessary."

I do think the pursuit of peace at any price, peace with a cruel, sadistic killer, is shameful.


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Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2003, 09:25:03 PM »
I've read over that statement many times before and after I read the Schaeffer article, and I couldn't find anywhere where it calls US/Coalition soldiers murderers.

I think it was this, "...fighting an elusive enemy by means which cause the death of innocent people can be regarded only as murder."
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Offline MartinIntlStud

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2003, 09:31:40 PM »
That's directed at the leadership, Schaeffer probably just took it personally because his son is over there, which is very understandable.

Offline Anastasios

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2003, 11:55:13 PM »
My father-in-law is Slovak (raised there and lived there most of his life) and he began reading Slovak, Czech, and German newspapers for their war coverage.  He said he was sickened by all the lies that their media write about the US, life in the US, etc.  He said that it makes him sick that his Slovak relatives have such a messed up and unrealistic idea of what the real world is like.  He says CNN may be biased (which is why he likes to watch it and compare it to Fox news) but that overall Americans care a lot more for other people when it *really* comes down to it than any European ever would in this kind of situation.

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Offline TomS

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2003, 10:44:37 AM »
"My father-in-law is Slovak (raised there and lived there most of his life) and he began reading Slovak, Czech, and German newspapers for their war coverage.  He said he was sickened by all the lies that their media write about the US, life in the US, etc. "

Yeah -- my father-in-law just came back from spending the winter in Greece and said the same thing about the Greeks. He said that he just could not believe the things the things that his relatives and friends believed about the US and how they accept any news unless it comes from the US. Any info/reporting from any US source is automatically rejected as propoganda.


Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re:Orthodox Peace Fellowship...a laugh?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2003, 10:56:21 AM »
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