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Anastasios
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« on: July 15, 2006, 12:18:51 PM »

Dear In Christ,

This site was hacked by some "friendly" Turkish Muslims. Unfortunately, we lost a day's worth of posts.  We apologize for the inconvenience.

Anastasios
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2006, 12:32:39 PM »

Oh that explains a lot actually. I was confused as to why there was a koran and multiple mosques on the front page of OC.net, makes sense now!
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2006, 12:50:21 PM »

Is there a cyber crusade in the works ?

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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2006, 01:13:21 PM »

Is there a cyber crusade in the works ?

The Moslems are just bitter that despite their 1.3 billion people religion, they can't help getting their back-sides kicked by a mere 6 million Israelis.
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2006, 01:55:51 PM »

Anastasios,

Do we have any info on the hackers?  I want to look into what legal measures we have at our disposal to remedy the illegal interloping of our site.  Who knows, maybe they're stupid enough to be here in the United States and we can use long arm jurisdiction to make life difficult for them.  Wink
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2006, 03:17:37 PM »

Wonderful. Now admiralnick won't read my constitutional lecture which took me two hours to compose.


Friendly, you say?  Two can play that game.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2006, 03:18:37 PM by ΑριστÎÂà » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2006, 03:31:35 PM »

Oh that explains a lot actually. I was confused as to why there was a koran and multiple mosques on the front page of OC.net, makes sense now!

Those were mosques  Huh

I thought they were stolen Orthodox churches  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2006, 05:38:47 PM »

Glad things are back to normal. However, what mischief did they cause and has contributors' security been compromised, and if so, in what way?

And an after thought. Could this be someone pretending to be Turkish Moslems, given the Middle East crisis and wanting to strip away any latent sympathies that might be stirring, given the disproportionate violence there?

Best wishes to all, and a djinn on your tail to the hackers..........
« Last Edit: July 15, 2006, 05:54:04 PM by StephenG » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2006, 08:13:24 PM »

[quote author=Αριστοκλής link=topic=9520.msg127896#msg127896 date=1152991057]
Wonderful. Now admiralnick won't read my constitutional lecture which took me two hours to compose.


Friendly, you say?ÂÂ  Two can play that game.
[/quote]


I'm sure that it was wonderful, I'll assume that it blew my theory out of the water and gave a definitive interpretation. That being said, I'm not going to type  a rebuttle, but I am going to be finding some "friendly American" people for a crusade of sorts. Thanks for the post tho, i'm sure it was good Smiley

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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2006, 08:23:39 PM »

Just wanted to mention that no accounts or passwords have been compromised and that we are working on figuring out how this happened and to take preventattive measures from it taking place again. 
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2006, 08:42:48 PM »

given the disproportionate violence there?
I have to say this before I explode.
The current buzzword is that Israel is using "disproportionate" force, but "disproportionate" to what? When, in the history of the world, has the entire population of the world been held to ransom and terrorized by a fanatical group of followers of one religion? The Lebanese Government has supported Hezbollah as a "legitimate resistance group"- therefore Lebanon is a legitimate target.
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2006, 09:21:08 PM »

George I agree with your statement, however, recently I discovered that most lebanese christians have nothing against hezbulah, so now I'm forced to rethink everything.
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2006, 09:39:04 PM »

George I agree with your statement, however, recently I discovered that most lebanese christians have nothing against hezbulah, so now I'm forced to rethink everything.

Christians who support islamic terrorist groups are nothing short of collaborators...and worse- collaborators against the Church with her enemies.
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2006, 09:46:47 PM »

Christians who support islamic terrorist groups are nothing short of collaborators...and worse- collaborators against the Church with her enemies.

I dont know, my lebanese friend is deeply devout to Christ but I wouldnt find it surprising if this whole time the media has been portraying Hezbullah wrong, not that I think it is. All I know for sure is that its a lot more complicated then made out to be by our Tvs Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2006, 11:21:28 PM »

I have to say this before I explode.
The current buzzword is that Israel is using "disproportionate" force, but "disproportionate" to what? When, in the history of the world, has the entire population of the world been held to ransom and terrorized by a fanatical group of followers of one religion? The Lebanese Government has supported Hezbollah as a "legitimate resistance group"- therefore Lebanon is a legitimate target.

I'm a bit surprised by your posistion on the matter...but I have to say I agree, Hezbollah has acted without consequences for far too long...it's about time Israel did something about it. And the terms of Israel are more than reasonable, return the kidnapped soldiers and require the private military/terrorist organization of Hezbollah to lay down their arms (no request for the actual Lebanese military to disarm or anything, just the private military of Hezbollah). Frankly, in the long run it would be in Lebanon's best interest to cooperate and join forces with Israel.
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2006, 12:04:05 AM »

Frankly, in the long run it would be in Lebanon's best interest to cooperate and join forces with Israel.

Agreed.
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2006, 12:43:01 AM »

Quote
no request for the actual Lebanese military to disarm or anything, just the private military of Hezbollah

With Syria's (timely) pull out of Lebanon, Hezbollah is essentially their military support.  Not that the pullout gave them their power/support, but they're basically what Lebanon's got. The buddy you're kind of scared of but know will take care of you if there's any trouble.

Quote
Frankly, in the long run it would be in Lebanon's best interest to cooperate and join forces with Israel.

I sincerely don't know if this is a joke or not.

I understand and out of passivity mostly agree with the Christians over Jews, Jews over Muslims stance taken by many. However imho the state of Israel is a victim out of convenience.  Terrorize your older brothers and start crying when mom and dad take interest. The father figure here clearly being the United States government as the self-appointed scales of justice and investor of nearly $100 billion in aid to Israel.. I don't get it.
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2006, 12:45:45 AM »

I don't get it either, kc.

There is no side to take but all sides it seems, for me. 'Conflicted' (almost confused) would be a good term for me.
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2006, 01:16:44 AM »


And an after thought. Could this be someone pretending to be Turkish Moslems, given the Middle East crisis and wanting to strip away any latent sympathies that might be stirring, given the disproportionate violence there?


I doubt it and not just because I don't want to cut the Turks a break. Most of Saturday afternoon we had guest(s) with Turkish IP addresses, I think, hanging around. Rare except for a couple brave Orthodox there.
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2006, 01:32:18 AM »

With Syria's (timely) pull out of Lebanon, Hezbollah is essentially their military support.ÂÂ  Not that the pullout gave them their power/support, but they're basically what Lebanon's got. The buddy you're kind of scared of but know will take care of you if there's any trouble.

I sincerely don't know if this is a joke or not.

You just described Hezbollah as 'the buddy youpre kind of scared of...' and you can't see how obvious my point is. Such a mercenary defence force like Hezbollah is dangerous at best, what if these psychologically unstable radicals decide they want to take control? If Lebanon joined forces with Israel they would benifit by eradicating this unstable and religiously fundamentalist militia force within their Country, thus giving the other (legitimate) elements of their government more influence and security. Hezbollah is a potentially greater threat to Lebanon than to Israel because of relative military strength (nominal versus Israel, but notable versus Lebanon).

This is the perfect opportunity for lebanon...they should come out and say that they would really like to eliminate Hezbollah but have been unable to affraid of starting a civil war, but Hezbollah is no match for Israel with all those US weapon systems and military capabilities, please help us...In the end Israel secures their northern border, Lebanon goes up a few notches in the eyes of the west, perhaps getting some additional US foreign aid, and everyone wins except for the moslem fundamentialists.

Quote
I understand and out of passivity mostly agree with the Christians over Jews, Jews over Muslims stance taken by many. However imho the state of Israel is a victim out of convenience.ÂÂ  Terrorize your older brothers and start crying when mom and dad take interest. The father figure here clearly being the United States government as the self-appointed scales of justice and investor of nearly $100 billion in aid to Israel.. I don't get it.

Israel has certainly perpetrated many problems in the region, but the moslems are far from innocent victims, they haven't gotten anything they haven't deserved (but considering my view of islam, that's not saying much). As for our foreign aid, it's our money to do with as we like, personally I can think of better uses than what we put it towards (why not just sign a treaty promising to use our military to defend Israel, as we did with Japan, more efficient to maintain one military than two), but our giving aid to Israel is not a violation of any treaty or international law and we have been overly generous to every country in the region, no one has any right to complain of our generosity towards their neighbours.
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2006, 03:01:54 AM »

Just wanted to mention that no accounts or passwords have been compromised and that we are working on figuring out how this happened and to take preventattive measures from it taking place again. 

And here I was chuckling over your latest practical joke. Darn, we really were hacked?
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2006, 04:30:27 AM »

Darn, we really were hacked?
And if this is what they do to us simply because it is an Orthodox Christian site, then hopefully people may see that we are not exaggerating about the Turkish Islamic persecution of our brothers and sisters in the Church of Constantinople.
Or should we simply hand this site over to the hackers because that is part of the natural "demographic changes" and "population movements" in the world?
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« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2006, 04:58:16 AM »

There is a Turkish ISP logged on and looking at this thread right now.
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« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2006, 05:07:59 AM »

How strange...they've disappeared...
But the time they were logged in was the time of my last post.
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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2006, 05:26:52 AM »

Robert,

Just an FYI. Throughout the past week there have been major episodes of - not hacking - but porn spamming by trollers on a wide range of religious forums - including Catholic Answers, Catholic-Pages, Catholic-Converts, LDSTalk, a Baptist board, an Islamic board, and a Jewish board, as well as some others. These clowns all originated from a site called Totse. A rundown of part of their gameplan can be read at Totse Half-Baked Forum.

This bunch were adolescents and those of adolescent mind. Although they've been quiet for 2 days now, it's not clear that they're finished. The last that anyone heard was of a plan to register on sites and post innocuously for a few days before starting to throw their really lewd photos etc up on the forums. There is some evidence that plan might be up and running, as Catholic Answers has had a sudden influx of newbies (3 or 4) posting about same sex issues, with enough detail to make them noticeable, but not to cross the line, yet. 

Just thought you might like a heads-up on it.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2006, 05:57:55 AM »

Irish Melkite & Robert,
The hacker attack OCnet experienced was by a group called "TiTHacK". They have been very active recently as reported by zone-h: http://www.zone-h.org/component/option,com_attacks/Itemid,43/filter_defacer,TiTHacK/
They appear to be an islamic cyber-protest group.
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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2006, 08:40:12 AM »

Explode if you wish, it's a free world - well in parts.

Any honest view of history and search of for examples Ben Gurion's and other founders of Israel makes it very clear that the Arabs were the rightful inhabitants, the settlers interlopers and their objective was to rid then Palestine of that population. Methods used including driving out whole villages and erasing their names from the map.

Lebanon has long been a proxy battle ground for Israel, Syria and Iran, all acting out their bloody war. Any honest count of casualties on both sides too will show the disproportion between one side and the other. Some make great play of external arms and training being a feature of Hisbollah and others' activities. And, of course, Israel produces and funds all its' own arms.

Collective punishment, all day curfews, and murder by IDF personnel are are too frequent experience. One British coroner's court has already reached a verdict on the murder of an innocent British observer by an IDF soldier.

The firing of air to ground missiles into a car on a crowded highway in a busy residential area is not a surgical intervention but either 'recklessness' or indifferent murder, to be followed by the usual and meaningless expression of regret.

Yes, Israel has a right and duty to defend its citizen (Jew and non-Jew), but not to use disproportionate force. When the Brits were fighting the PIRA how often we heard thunderous noises from American senators and the administration if any 'supposed' heavy handedness was shown. But nothing used by the British security forces even began to approach the IDF methods which draw little if any adverse comment from that same nation.

So, explode all you like. I will hold on to the memories of my children coming home from Orthodox camp with tales told them by their fellow Orthodox children of coming home to find relatives dead from Israeli 'police' actions.

If you I'll come back with a whole list of quotes by eminent Israeli figures that make clear the double standard of the Zionist faction from the beginning.

And as for terrorists of any pursuasion or nationality, I disagree with their methods and their reationale. Basque, Irish nationalist, Ulster loyalist, Palestinian, Zionist, Iraqui insurgents, Al Queda, the PPK or state sanctioned ones anywhere.
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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2006, 09:28:03 AM »

Explode if you wish, it's a free world - well in parts.
Thanks, but I'm OK now, I managed to get it off my chest in time.

Any honest view of history and search of for examples Ben Gurion's and other founders of Israel makes it very clear that the Arabs were the rightful inhabitants, the settlers interlopers and their objective was to rid then Palestine of that population. Methods used including driving out whole villages and erasing their names from the map.
Why should history stop at the six day war? I am all for a return to the pre-1967 borders and territories, but this isn't about that. Nor do I think that the Israelis are angelic beings- no nation is, neither mine nor yours. Mine currently has manditory detention for asylum seekers, some of whom have been in detention for 7 years now in what could only be described as concentration camps. I visited one and remember thinking at the time that if Germany had decided to build these "detention centres", there would have been an international outcry. This isn't about which form of government is better, it's about how we engage with one another, and islamic extremists have only one way of engaging with the world- by ultimatum: become muslim or be treated as subhuman, or die.
And why the double standard? Greece was expected to graciously surrender her territories to the Muslim Turks, Serbia was expected to graciously surrender Kosovo to the Muslim Albanians, but Heaven forfend that non-muslims should claim territory from muslims!

Lebanon has long been a proxy battle ground for Israel, Syria and Iran, all acting out their bloody war. Any honest count of casualties on both sides too will show the disproportion between one side and the other. Some make great play of external arms and training being a feature of Hisbollah and others' activities. And, of course, Israel produces and funds all its' own arms.
The "bloody war" came about because one side said to the other: "you have no right to exist"- and guess which side that was? Even Greece recognises Turkey's right to exist. Israel pulls out of Gaza, and what happens? More suicide bombings.

Collective punishment, all day curfews, and murder by IDF personnel are are too frequent experience. One British coroner's court has already reached a verdict on the murder of an innocent British observer by an IDF soldier.
If you are talking about Tom Hurndall, the IDF Soldier who killed him was actually a bedouin Arab.


The firing of air to ground missiles into a car on a crowded highway in a busy residential area is not a surgical intervention but either 'recklessness' or indifferent murder, to be followed by the usual and meaningless expression of regret.
And what is a suicide bombing in a Jerusalem nightclub, or a missile fired at a train station in Haifa? The difference is that the Israelis at least offer an apology, while the islamists dance in the street and hail the murderer as a "martyr". And for this you condemn the Israelis? Which is the lesser evil- an act of war which is regretted, or a murder suicide which is rejoiced over and encouraged?

Yes, Israel has a right and duty to defend its citizen (Jew and non-Jew), but not to use disproportionate force.
Again I ask, disproportionate to what? To holding the entire non-mulsim world to ransom and terrorizing it? When the islamists decide to apply for re-admission to the human race, then we can talk, but for now, they understand only one language.
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2006, 09:39:00 AM »

And if this is what they do to us simply because it is an Orthodox Christian site, then hopefully people may see that we are not exaggerating about the Turkish Islamic persecution of our brothers and sisters in the Church of Constantinople.
Or should we simply hand this site over to the hackers because that is part of the natural "demographic changes" and "population movements" in the world?

Hear, Hear! There ya' go!
Too bad they can't use their talents (at using tools WE invented) to clean up their own sick hearts.
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2006, 12:29:08 PM »

Explode if you wish, it's a free world - well in parts.

Are you talking about the moslem way of exploding...with dynamite strapped to your chest...or simply getting upset? Grin

Quote
Any honest view of history and search of for examples Ben Gurion's and other founders of Israel makes it very clear that the Arabs were the rightful inhabitants, the settlers interlopers and their objective was to rid then Palestine of that population. Methods used including driving out whole villages and erasing their names from the map.

An objective look at history makes it very clear that the Arabs have no more right to the Area than the Israelis. If you recall your history properly, these lands were taken from the Empire by military force, the arabs are invaders and any converts to islam are traitors and collaborators. So I see no reason to shed a tear when the invaders and their collaborators fail to hold onto their prize. In terms of modern history, Palestine was part of the British Empire, is it not within the Rights of the Crown to do as they please with their lands? (that's how monarchy works, if such a clarification is needed)

Quote
Lebanon has long been a proxy battle ground for Israel, Syria and Iran, all acting out their bloody war. Any honest count of casualties on both sides too will show the disproportion between one side and the other.
Some make great play of external arms and training being a feature of Hisbollah and others' activities. And, of course, Israel produces and funds all its' own arms.

You're now objecting to a disproportionate number of casualities? It's not Israel's fault that her enemies are inept soldiers and generals. Would you be happy if Israel were to bomb her own cities so that the casualities are 'proportionate;' I have to say that this is amongst the most absurd criticisms I've ever heard. To quote General George S. Patton on this matter, 'No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.'

Quote
Collective punishment, all day curfews, and murder by IDF personnel are are too frequent experience. One British coroner's court has already reached a verdict on the murder of an innocent British observer by an IDF soldier.

The firing of air to ground missiles into a car on a crowded highway in a busy residential area is not a surgical intervention but either 'recklessness' or indifferent murder, to be followed by the usual and meaningless expression of regret.

If the Palestianians want to fight using irregular methods (e.g. terrorism, suicide bombings, etc.) then it is reasonable for Israel to treat all 'civilians' as hostile military personnel. That is one of the dangers of guerilla warfare, it undermines the traditional distinction between military and civilian; furthermore, the fact that the Palestinians more often than not target civilian rather than military targets also undermines any protections Palestinian civilians may otherwise have. Basically, if the Palestinians want to improve conditions they need to either stop attacking israel, or only attack Israeli military targets with uniformed military personnel.

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Yes, Israel has a right and duty to defend its citizen (Jew and non-Jew), but not to use disproportionate force. When the Brits were fighting the PIRA how often we heard thunderous noises from American senators and the administration if any 'supposed' heavy handedness was shown. But nothing used by the British security forces even began to approach the IDF methods which draw little if any adverse comment from that same nation.

What is this 'disproportionate force' BS? The most fundamental of all principles of war is the Economy of Force or, in the words of Clausewitz, that 'no part of the whole [military] force is idle.' A General can Never be blamed for using too much force, only for using inadequate force. To use less force than one has at their disposal is, to quote Clausewitz again, 'abhorrent to strategic thought.'

As far as the American response to the actions of the Crown's forces, I fear I disagree with our Government of the time, mind you the government of the time was overrun by communists. Frankly, we would all be better off today if Britain had maintained these territories by whatever means necessary.

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So, explode all you like. I will hold on to the memories of my children coming home from Orthodox camp with tales told them by their fellow Orthodox children of coming home to find relatives dead from Israeli 'police' actions.

Explode with what? Laughter? Your biggest objection to Israel seems to be that Israel consistantly makes use of the Fundamental Principles of War (Personally, I think they could do better, but you seem to think that they're doing too good)...I do hope that you're joking here, but I have an unfortunate feeling that you're not.

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And as for terrorists of any pursuasion or nationality, I disagree with their methods and their reationale. Basque, Irish nationalist, Ulster loyalist, Palestinian, Zionist, Iraqui insurgents, Al Queda, the PPK or state sanctioned ones anywhere.

Well, I disagree with most their causes but I can't object too loudly to their methods, all is fair in love and war Wink . However, it should be made clear that if you choose to conduct an unconventional war, civilian protections of the Geneva convention go out the window. If you use suicide bombers on crowded buses or kidnap journalists, you have no right complain when your civilian targets are hit or your civilians are taken and 'interrogated.' The rules of war were written to make an inherently violent and barbaric human activity more bearable and palatable to our post-enlightenment sensibilities; but these rules only work if they are followed by both sides, otherwise they provide the side that chooses not to follow them an unfair and undeserved advantage, so if one side chooses to abandon these rules the other side can not be expected to abide by the same.
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2006, 01:14:49 PM »

If muslims want everyone to convert to Islam, they sure are not going to catch many flies this way. They are only showing people how ridiculous their "peace" is Islam argument is. I know this is not a group that may reflect all muslim attitudes, but really no one in Islam is trying to stop these nuts or any others anyway. Seems like they are condoning it.
Oh well.
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« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2006, 01:38:53 PM »

I didn't intend for this thread to turn into an Israel vs. Lebanon thing.  If anyone wants to discuss this, please do so in the private politics section.

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« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2006, 10:01:53 PM »

However, it should be made clear that if you choose to conduct an unconventional war, civilian protections of the Geneva convention go out the window.
Although I agree with you, the US Supreme Court disagrees with us both, so I guess it don't matter what we think.  Tongue Grin
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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2006, 08:53:02 PM »

There are and have been people who converted to Islam for reasons other than spiritual---like to avoid being killed, to stopÂÂ  assasination and have some peace---historically there have been more converts to Islam for these reasons than for true conversion. They are people who just want to be left alone and allowed to live their life. Hoepfully we will not be counted among them.

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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2006, 09:30:10 AM »

Man, they tried again to hack us. Sheesh.
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2006, 09:32:34 AM »

Working on this tonight.  They're kiddies, I figured out what they're doing.

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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2006, 08:27:33 PM »

Onward Christian soldier!  Cmon Rob, give 'em heck!
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