Author Topic: Palm reading and the like  (Read 2979 times)

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Offline Zoe

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Palm reading and the like
« on: July 13, 2006, 12:37:45 AM »
Mildly curious about this: I got my palm read on a whim at some festival I was at today.  She actually ended up telling me some very private things that kind of surprised me, which got me wondering what the Orthodox position on such things is.  Obviously, it's not favorable, but my understanding was that if it's used just as a form of entertainment and doesn't become something all-consuming, it's pretty much harmless. 

My issue is is that the lady who read my palm did tell me some things that couldn't have been just an educated guess.  Plus, her eyes and mannuerisms changed when she said these things to me. 

Any thoughts?
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Offline Robert

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2006, 12:58:16 AM »
Simple answer:

Ouija board, tarot cards, palm/tea reading and the like may seem like harmless fun.  However, they are activites that can and often do deal with the occult and the unseen.  The end result is to reveal some aspect of the future.  This is intriguing to people on many different levels.  There is definitely some sort of hidden pull and interest.  I bet if you think about it you'd agree to this....some aspect was pulling you in.   

By adopting any sort of mentality that allows for these things, we are indirectly taking away our trust from God's will and instead putting it into the will of man.  If this palm reader did have any power, where do you think it was derived from?  God? 

Others can weigh in on this, but my mentality is why waste your time with the useless and instead use that time to do something productive instead.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 12:58:36 AM by Robert »

Offline Zoe

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2006, 01:43:24 AM »
Actually, I do (and did previous to this experience) agree.  Especially this part:

"If this palm reader did have any power, where do you think it was derived from?  God?"

Previous to this, though, I thought the whole idea of psychics and the like was nonsense, that there was nothing to it.  The fact that this lady's entire demeanor changed did prove to me that there is something to it, just not the something I'm looking for.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2006, 04:44:31 AM »
Don't forget the OT on "mediums". Not good.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 08:26:50 AM »
Any thoughts?

God is not the only source of the supernatural. There was a monk on Mount Athos who was believed to have the gift of clairvoyance, and many would come to see him for advice. He too was "spot on" about telling people hidden facts about their lives (unconfessed sins, the whereabouts of loved ones or lost objects etc.). However, a wise Elder once noted that whenever a person asked the "clairvoyant" monk a question about a lost article or a missing loved one, there was always a delay before the monk would answer. The experienced Elder knew that the Holy Spirit is "everywhere present and fillest all things", however, the demons cannot be in two places at once, and so, when the person voiced his question to the clarvoyant monk, the demon would go and seek out the whereabouts of the item or person inquired about and return with the answer. The Elder placed his epitracheleon on and began the exorcism prayers of St. Basil, with the effect that the monk's clarvoyant gift immediately disappeared.
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Offline Psalti Boy

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2006, 01:09:34 AM »
I had a distant aunt who I visited in Thessaloniki when I was about 12.  One day after having some Greek coffee, she read the bottom of my coffee cup.  Everything she told me has come true so far except for one thing.   ???

I had asked an Antiochian priest one time if he believed that psychics could really communicate with the dead.  He told me that it was a sin to talk to the dead.  So, now I'm wondering if when I talk to my dead grandparents, am I committing a sin.   ??? 


Offline Zoe

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 01:21:01 AM »
D'oh, I often ask my grandmother (though not verbally, even internally; more like a feeling of) to watch over our family like she did when she was still around.

Though my priest said before that demons can pose as anything you really wish them to - including family members past.ÂÂ  So perhaps that's what your priest was implying was a sin?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2006, 02:16:51 AM by Zoe »
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Offline Kaminetz

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2006, 12:38:32 AM »
I think it's important to also establish that the phraseology of these fortune tellers is deceiving. Often, with fortune cookies as an example, they pretty much tell us what we want to hear, or otherwise they say things that we try to read into. Who doesn't want to hear "The hard work you've been doing will soon pay off" or "You have a good heart, just work harder"? Read the horoscopes, and pick any random one without looking at your sign. Imagine yourself as being of that horoscope. You'll find it's easy to get tied into that game.

Of course, the evil one is working the tables too, but he often does that inside your mind, throwing in thoughts and interpretations that will lead you to bad actions.

Offline Sloga

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2006, 12:46:21 AM »
I was going to start an identical thread today but forgot. I remember I asked a former priest around here (God bless him and may he rest in peace) about Psychics. He said they are the tools of Satan. Which got me thinking, it could actually be possible that they really do see something or can speak to the dead? /

Sylvia Browne for example. I watch her on wednsdays, not because I like her or I believe her, but I'm interested in what she says. At times she impresses me a great deal, but then at other times she completely contradicts herself and one of her predictions. Anyone with nails that long is obviously working with the devil  :o ::)
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Offline Zoe

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2006, 02:45:10 AM »
Yes, I completely agree Kaminetz - the generalities in horoscopes and the whole of psychics in general make for a great facade that entraps lots of people.  But if that were the case, I wouldn't have started this thread.  This palm reader lady was really direct in what she said.  No generalities.  What she said could have either been exactly right, or entirely wrong.  Either she took a great chance, or just got lucky, or was inspired by something, I don't know.  I haven't had an opportunity to speak with my priest about it.

But I DID go back to her a second time -- out of curiousity, to see if she could do something like this a second time, and she portrayed a lot of the characteristics that you are talking about.  A lot of generalities, etc, and she even threw in a plug for Victory Assembly, which is a mega-churchish-non-denominational-borderline-cult located near us.  So, there we go.

As for speaking to the dead, Sloga, my priest said that people who see ghosts who say they are so and so are really just demons who can impersonate and let us see whatever we want to see. That is perhaps, then, where inticement of psychics and like is who tell us what we like to hear (and she certainly did that my second go).

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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2009, 10:53:24 PM »
Avoid such things. Seeking to assuage our curiosities often leads us right into satan's trap. It is human nature to want specific answers about specific personal issues, and satan is all too willing to indulge us. Yet his indulgences are deceptions designed to lead us away from God. Remember the consequences of Eve's curiosity. Christianity is Faith. It is Faith in Our Lord Who is Himself the Answer to what our souls seek. By faith we make our requests known unto Him, trusting that our endeavors to follow Christ will result in the abundant life that He promised.

Selam
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 10:54:12 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2009, 12:09:23 AM »
Avoid such things. Seeking to assuage our curiosities often leads us right into satan's trap. It is human nature to want specific answers about specific personal issues, and satan is all too willing to indulge us. Yet his indulgences are deceptions designed to lead us away from God. Remember the consequences of Eve's curiosity. Christianity is Faith. It is Faith in Our Lord Who is Himself the Answer to what our souls seek. By faith we make our requests known unto Him, trusting that our endeavors to follow Christ will result in the abundant life that He promised.

Selam
Resurrecting ancient threads so you can pontificate again?
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Offline stashko

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2009, 01:16:29 AM »
Avoid such things. Seeking to assuage our curiosities often leads us right into satan's trap. It is human nature to want specific answers about specific personal issues, and satan is all too willing to indulge us. Yet his indulgences are deceptions designed to lead us away from God. Remember the consequences of Eve's curiosity. Christianity is Faith. It is Faith in Our Lord Who is Himself the Answer to what our souls seek. By faith we make our requests known unto Him, trusting that our endeavors to follow Christ will result in the abundant life that He promised.

Selam
Resurrecting ancient threads so you can pontificate again?

I like all of his Pontifications ,He's Battling for the True Orthodox Way...as we all orthodox should ....Gebre Menfes Kidus keep up the good fight....Your in my prayers....
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2009, 03:33:15 AM »
Avoid such things. Seeking to assuage our curiosities often leads us right into satan's trap. It is human nature to want specific answers about specific personal issues, and satan is all too willing to indulge us. Yet his indulgences are deceptions designed to lead us away from God. Remember the consequences of Eve's curiosity. Christianity is Faith. It is Faith in Our Lord Who is Himself the Answer to what our souls seek. By faith we make our requests known unto Him, trusting that our endeavors to follow Christ will result in the abundant life that He promised.

Selam
Resurrecting ancient threads so you can pontificate again?


GMK, Don't be discouraged brother.  We differ with one another theologically speaking, but I almost always find your faith, and courage to speak up, very uplifting.  Why anyone would want to attack you like this is simply childish, immature and definitely uncalled for.   
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 03:38:28 AM by GabrieltheCelt »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2009, 06:22:53 AM »
Avoid such things. Seeking to assuage our curiosities often leads us right into satan's trap. It is human nature to want specific answers about specific personal issues, and satan is all too willing to indulge us. Yet his indulgences are deceptions designed to lead us away from God. Remember the consequences of Eve's curiosity. Christianity is Faith. It is Faith in Our Lord Who is Himself the Answer to what our souls seek. By faith we make our requests known unto Him, trusting that our endeavors to follow Christ will result in the abundant life that He promised.

Selam
Resurrecting ancient threads so you can pontificate again?


GMK, Don't be discouraged brother.  We differ with one another theologically speaking, but I almost always find your faith, and courage to speak up, very uplifting.  Why anyone would want to attack you like this is simply childish, immature and definitely uncalled for.    
Yes, I'm aware of how you feel about me.  I'm not all that concerned about it, though. 8)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 06:24:10 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2009, 04:19:02 PM »
Avoid such things. Seeking to assuage our curiosities often leads us right into satan's trap. It is human nature to want specific answers about specific personal issues, and satan is all too willing to indulge us. Yet his indulgences are deceptions designed to lead us away from God. Remember the consequences of Eve's curiosity. Christianity is Faith. It is Faith in Our Lord Who is Himself the Answer to what our souls seek. By faith we make our requests known unto Him, trusting that our endeavors to follow Christ will result in the abundant life that He promised.

Selam
Resurrecting ancient threads so you can pontificate again?


GMK, Don't be discouraged brother.  We differ with one another theologically speaking, but I almost always find your faith, and courage to speak up, very uplifting.  Why anyone would want to attack you like this is simply childish, immature and definitely uncalled for.    
Yes, I'm aware of how you feel about me.  I'm not all that concerned about it, though. 8)

Not you, just this particular ignorant attack.  ;)
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2009, 05:25:26 PM »
I like all of his Pontifications ,He's Battling for the True Orthodox Way...as we all orthodox should ....Gebre Menfes Kidus keep up the good fight....Your in my prayers....
ROFL!  :D
Tell me stashko, since you seem to be the expert at discernment: What defines the "True Orthodox Way?"
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 05:38:07 PM by ozgeorge »
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Offline believer74

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2009, 12:57:45 PM »
I tend to think the psychics are a lot of ... um,  'bunk, ... but IMO the main thing wrong with it is the act of TRYING to hedge in on knowledge that only God is supposed to have. Personally I wouldn't want to know the specifics of my future anyway. Creepy. ;)

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2009, 04:26:52 PM »
Evil is real and readily available for those eager to find it. Stay far away from such things.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 04:27:12 PM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2009, 04:41:06 PM »
I've been to "psychics" twice before, just for kicks, and both times, they were completely wrong.  According to one... I must be talking to you all now from beyond the grave.  Boo!  Gives the term ghost-writer a whole different spin.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 04:41:40 PM by Nebelpfade »
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2009, 04:48:07 PM »
I've been to "psychics" twice before, just for kicks, and both times, they were completely wrong.  According to one... I must be talking to you all now from beyond the grave.  Boo!  Gives the term ghost-writer a whole different spin.

Don't get your "kicks" from route 666! ;)

Selam
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2009, 05:04:16 PM »
I've been to "psychics" twice before, just for kicks, and both times, they were completely wrong.  According to one... I must be talking to you all now from beyond the grave.  Boo!  Gives the term ghost-writer a whole different spin.

Don't get your "kicks" from route 666! ;)

Selam

lol!  

I suppose I have just never seen anything "evil" in occult practises.  So many greats within science would be said to have held to the "Magical Tradition" (Hugh Kearney's terminology, not mine), based around Hermeticism.   Alchemy, astrology, and theurgy lead us to the fields of astrophysics and chemistry.  These occult practices and beliefs were just superstition and attempts at understanding the cosmos, and most importantly, our path/purpose in it.  Useless, but had a purpose at a time.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 05:04:50 PM by Nebelpfade »
As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Offline ms.hoorah

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Re: Palm reading and the like
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2009, 06:46:20 PM »
If one will not accept spiritual reasons to stay away from the Occult, how about these reasons?   Here are only a few, but if you search the literature, you will find that occult practice is positively correlated with mental illness.
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Psychotherapist Elsa First warned that cultivating ASCs could result in a permanent alienation from ordinary human attachments.

Elsa First, "Visions, Voyages and New Interpretations of Madness," in John White, ed., Frontiers of Consciousness (New York: Avon, 1975), p. 65.
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Dr. Clifford Wilson stated that there are many evidences that occult practice is very dangerous. Alcoholism, drug addiction, prostitution, insanity and other serious problems frequently follow involvement with the occult.

Clifford Wilson, The Occult Explosion (San Diego, CA: Master Books, 1980), p. 22.
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Dr. Kurt E. Koch had extensive personal experience in counseling those in the Occult. He reports that in his 45 years of experience he "has heard some twenty-thousand terrible cases.  Dr. Kurt E. Koch refers to a New Zealand psychiatrist who "claims that 50% of the neurotics being treated in the clinics in Hamilton were involved with sorcery." He also says that  Christian psychiatrists, in areas where occultism is extensively practiced, believe that over half of the patients at psychiatric clinics are suffering from occult oppression rather than mental illness.

According to Dr. Koch, occult involvement is 9000 times as dangerous as taking the drug thalidomide.

Koch, Demonology, Past and Present (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel, 1970).
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Anita Muhl, M.D.,  Ph.D. (psychiatrist) is an authority on automatic writing. She says that any other use of automatic writing besides for therapy (occult practice) is "very dangerous."

Anita Muhl, Automatic Writing: An Approach to the Subconscious (New York: Helix, 1963), p. 42-170.


« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 06:52:26 PM by ms.hoorah »