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Psalti Boy
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« on: July 10, 2006, 09:36:22 PM »

What does the Orthodox church teach about the Knights Templar, if anything?
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Sloga
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2006, 09:45:20 PM »

I dont think there's an official opinion, but you can look at it two ways. Some view them as heroic christians who protected pilgrims visiting the holy land. Many even consider them martyrs because they were tortured and killed by Muslims. The other side though, is that they were barbaric crusaders (I dont know the Knights Templar's relations with Orthodox Christians). They were Catholic, I believe, because they were formed in germany during the first crusade. If they were apart of the initial army travelling from Germany to Jerusalem via Constantinople, they would have burnt and pillaged Orthodox countries in the Balkans, and eventually disobeyed the order of Constantinople, since it was a call for defense, not invasion.

I think it's safe to say its a neutral opinion from an Orthodox point of view (if the KT were not apart of the 1st huge travelling army). It was definitly a Catholic order, so I dont know excactly how our Church reacted to them.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 09:46:46 PM by Sloga » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 09:57:56 PM »

I am not sure but I will check back on my copious notes on this, I think Sloga has it right- but I don't think the Knights Templar ever did anything to HARM Othodox Christians......
I will have to check...
I would think that the Orthodox would be happy of their presence since it was controversial- yes- but still in the end (from what I understand) never in opposition to the Orthodox, or any other "heterodox" ie: of course I include the RCC in that statement as much as it pains me to say it...
Ummm, anyone willing to die to protect pilgrims visiting the Holy sites should not be controversial, but respected in my most humble opinion...
 Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2006, 09:58:33 PM »

I am not sure but I will check back on my copious notes on this, I think Sloga has it right- but I don't think the Knights Templar ever did anything to HARM Orthodox Christians......
I will have to check...
I would think that the Orthodox would be happy of their presence since it was controversial- yes- but still in the end (from what I understand) never in opposition to the Orthodox, or any other "heterodox" ie: of course I include the RCC in that statement as much as it pains me to say it...
Ummm, anyone willing to die to protect pilgrims visiting the Holy sites should not be controversial, but respected in my most humble opinion...
 Undecided
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Sloga
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2006, 10:02:09 PM »

I am not sure but I will check back on my copious notes on this, I think Sloga has it right- but I don't think the Knights Templar ever did anything to HARM Othodox Christians......
I will have to check...
I would think that the Orthodox would be happy of their presence since it was controversial- yes- but still in the end (from what I understand) never in opposition to the Orthodox, or any other "heterodox" ie: of course I include the RCC in that statement as much as it pains me to say it...
Ummm, anyone willing to die to protect pilgrims visiting the Holy sites should not be controversial, but respected in my most humble opinion...
 Undecided

Yea thats pretty much what I figure too, but recently (and from before), there are documents stating the KT originally had nothing to do with protecting pilgrims, but that they had some "hidden agenda". But its all fairytale to me unless its proven 95% true.
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"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2006, 10:08:52 PM »

I was just wondering because I was just watching a show about them on th History Channel.

Thanks!      Smiley
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Sloga
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 10:20:35 PM »

Quote
Crowley (1989) presented an interesting, but probably coincidental, claim that the name came from a Greek phrase for "baptism of wisdom". The problem with Crowley's case is it overlooks two basic facts about the Templars: 1) as Roman Catholics, Greek names were not that important to them (and to Catholics at the time, the Greek Orthodox Christians were in some ways just as much "infidels" as the Muslims), and 2) the Templars who lived in the Holy Land, along with the masons they employed, had to deal with the local population on a regular basis, often became fluent in Arabic, and for a European in the Holy Land --Templars included -- to "go native" was not particularly unusual. But it was in the pop-history book _Holy Blood, Holy Grail_ that I first came across the idea that "Baphomet" was derived from an Arabic term, _abufihamet_, meaning "Father of Understanding", rather than from an Old French name for the founder of Islam.

http://www.templarhistory.com/solved.html
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Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2006, 10:36:04 PM »


Thanks! 
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2006, 11:23:36 PM »

Compliments of Stephen A. Dafoe and "Masonic Magazine"...
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2006, 01:58:14 AM »

You guys do know who Alister Crowley is don't you?
I mean the list of sources here is pretty obvious of the agenda don't ya think?

Why is this post here?

Who has a beef w/ the KT?

That stupid book?

Come on.... I have seen some really intelligent people here on this forum, don't let me down now!!
Just because I'm A RC does not mean I think they are perfect-
You have seen my posts!!!
I should be excommunicated for my posts!!
But this is silly.
Come on.
KT were only guards for the pilgrims...if you want to make more of it- fine .
Get some better sources of info then. otherwise, call this post national inquierer, for the "inquiering minds"....
I thought you guys were way too smart for this kind of BS.
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2006, 02:29:19 AM »

“The statement falsely attributed to Pope Leo X, ‘It has served us well, this myth of Christ,’ was alleged long ago by an apostate English Carmelite, John Bale, in his 16th-century satire, The Pageant of the Popes,” Father Echert said. “There is no basis for this attribution and rarely, if ever, is any context for the statement provided. Never has any legitimate papal text been cited to substantiate this allegation.”



P.S. I e-mailed this idiot when I read this stupid "litter" ary trash, and asked him how he could look himself in the mirror with this stupid unfounded gossip to be his "spark"
he mentions not once but twice in his dumb "thriller" and he said it was-
"food for thought"


Steve Berry that is.
Nice web page he has. All totally conspiracy theory stuff. He is an idiot.
Hmmm..
Food w/o any substance if you ask me.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 02:35:25 AM by Dismus » Logged
Psalti Boy
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2006, 02:35:36 AM »

WHY DOES MOST EVERYTHING I POST SEEM TO TURN INTO A WWE ROYAL RUMBLE Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2006, 02:57:35 AM »

WHY DOES MOST EVERYTHING I POST SEEM TO TURN INTO A WWE ROYAL RUMBLE Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

cuz you are kinda cute!!! Wink

Just kidding- I guess you meant well!
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2006, 03:27:37 AM »

cuz you are kinda cute!!! Wink

Just kidding- I guess you meant well!

No. 1 - I'm not your cuz.   Angry

No. 2 - You don't know me well enough to know if I am cute or not.   Angry

No. 3 - I don't care if you were kidding.   Angry

No. 4 - I didn't mean well . . what I meant is that every time I post something, somebody wants to get into a pissing contest.   Angry
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2006, 04:07:29 AM »

Okay!
Let's ****!!
Make your point man.
You are created in God's image so therefore you must be ok.
No, I don't know you well enough to say things like I did.
But I do know that you DONT KNOW enough on this subject to KNOCK the RCC on this stupid beef.
Get a real issue on the table.
Otherwise, contact the gossip rags.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 07:06:00 PM by Cyrillic » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2006, 08:59:13 AM »

I' m a little confused as to whats going on here...
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2006, 09:05:17 AM »

There's a lot of quirky stories about the Knights Templar particularly about how they were tried and many executed in the early 1300's.  The Wiki article gives a list of places and some facts about them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

Ebor
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2006, 06:16:31 PM »

There's a lot of quirky stories about the Knights Templar particularly about how they were tried and many executed in the early 1300's.ÂÂ  The Wiki article gives a list of places and some facts about them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

Ebor

It is an interesting point of view from good old Wiki.
However, I think the OP was originally asking what the Orthodox position was.
So far, I have seen links tossed around that are anything but Orthodox.
Why not google New Advent for shucks? After all KT were RC. I especially like the last highlighted word at the end of the story...
If you click on it it will give you more info on another interesting person.
Just check it out- be sure to click on Kingdom of Aragon. It will take you to another page that I assure you will be interesting.
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2006, 04:32:53 PM »

I assure you, I *do* follow links and go on to other information.  I provided the Wiki link for those who did not know much or anything about the Templars so that they could find out some information if they wished.

Ebor
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2006, 04:10:26 PM »

National Treasure just came from my NetFlix queue (and...grrrrrr...I forgot to put it back in the mail this morning on the way to work).  Nice, cute flick, but I'm surprised no one in this thread mentioned it.
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2006, 06:05:49 PM »

Ummm, because "National Treasure" is purely fiction?  It's a *fun* movie.  I enjoyed it immensely.  But it's very clearly not real history. (I mean really, that huge deep excavation beneath the Episcopal Church in Manhatten?  Way below the water line there.) 

Trivia fact:  in National Treasure, the Good Guys use "Google" and the Bad Guys use "Yahoo" as their search engines

Ebor
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2006, 07:14:29 PM »

Ummm, because "National Treasure" is purely fiction?ÂÂ  It's a *fun* movie.ÂÂ  I enjoyed it immensely.ÂÂ  But it's very clearly not real history. (I mean really, that huge deep excavation beneath the Episcopal Church in Manhatten?ÂÂ  Way below the water line there.)ÂÂ  

Trivia fact:ÂÂ  in National Treasure, the Good Guys use "Google" and the Bad Guys use "Yahoo" as their search engines

Ebor

I guess I'm bad then, since I prefer Yahoo and then try Google if it fails.   Grin

Someone should post a debunking of the Disney Anastasia movie sometime.  I haven't even seen the movie though.
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2006, 10:05:21 PM »

I guess I'm bad then, since I prefer Yahoo and then try Google if it fails.  ÃƒÆ’‚ Grin

 Shocked  Oh no!  So are you going to steal the Declaration of Independence?   Grin


Quote
Someone should post a debunking of the Disney Anastasia movie sometime.ÂÂ  I haven't even seen the movie though.

We have that movie and enjoy it.  It has some very lovely animation work and a very touching remembered scene with Anastasia remembering her past. There's also a very well animated and alarmingly real looking in places train accident.  It also has some very funny lines, particularly from Bartok the Bat, the Rasputin character's erstwhile assistance, (who is then very fine in his own movie "Bartok the Magnificent" with Kelsey Grammar voicing a bear who does a traveling show with him.)  and some nice songs.  There's an excellent street scene in Paris where the passersby are real people who were there.  Iirc, Josephine Baker is walking a leopard for example.

We are quite aware that it is not about any real history.  It's just a story, and we've told the children a bit about what happened to the last Romanovs (age appropriate bits).  But the movie is fiction.  It's just a cartoon tale.

Ebor
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2006, 10:13:42 PM »

There's an excellent street scene in Paris where the passersby are real people who were there.  Iirc, Josephine Baker is walking a leopard for example.

11 years ago, I was in France and toured the castle Josephine Baker lived in with her family for several years.  There was an aviary out back with falcons.  Nice place.
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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2006, 07:10:54 AM »

That sounds pretty neat, indeed.  Was the aviary from Ms. Baker's time there?

Ebor
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« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2006, 12:31:57 AM »

That sounds pretty neat, indeed.  Was the aviary from Ms. Baker's time there?

Ebor

Not sure if it was associated or just some other tourist thing on the castle grounds.
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« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2006, 12:48:48 AM »

That sounds pretty neat, indeed.  Was the aviary from Ms. Baker's time there?

Ebor

I found this:

"She starred in two movies in the early 1930s, Zou-Zou and Princess Tam-Tam, and moved her family from St. Louis to Les Milandes, her estate in Castelnaud-Fayrac, France."

here:
http://www.cmgww.com/stars/baker/about/biography.html

More info:
http://france-for-visitors.com/dordogne/perigord-noir/chateaux-of-les-milandes.html


I was in Europe, mainly France, for 5 weeks back in '95 and we spent a few days in Sarlat in the Dordogne River valley.  This was just one of many castles we visited.

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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2013, 05:12:52 PM »

Knights Templars would have been seen by Orthodox as other crusaders were, ie. as RC military aggressors. The Crusaders sacked Constantinople and expelled the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, replacing him with a Latin one. They were also in Eastern Europe, although I do not know how far east. Supposedly there is a 12th century fortress of the Templars in Srednee in the far west of Ukraine:


http://ukraine.kingdom.kiev.ua/region/06/seredne_en.php

Putting aside those conflicts between Orthodox and Roman Catholics,
it is an interesting question how the Templars really compared with Christian teachings.

They were a monastic military order, which critics saw as going against the idea of monasticism. They also profited heavily from loans, which the Church's principles saw as usury - although the RC Church ignored this.

On the surface, there is alot of good things that can be said about them- they expanded Christian influence and helped keep Christian control over the Holy Land. They were dedicated to protecting pilgrims and making hospitals, and were dedicated to religion.

Their full name was the Knights of Solomon's Temple. So it would seem their goals and rituals would have something to do with Solomon's Temple. Yes, they occupied the area around the Temple, but it seems that there should be more than that. They had a secret initiation, and is that unusual for a monastic military order? This means there are unknown things about them.

On the other hand, there are some hints about them being heretical, but they are weak ones. First, the Templar leaders confessed to being heretics, engaging in deviant sexual and anti-Christian rituals. The problem with believing this is that the French king who tortured them into saying these things was severe against political enemies (like the Templars), expelling the Jews and Lombards, and using trickery in relations with England to take the English land.

Second, Templar castles and churches used gothic art and architecture which focuses on dark or even demonic themes. It doesn't make sense from a Christian perspective, but admittedly this was normal for the period. Third, there appears to be a link between the Templars and Masons, who have their own beliefs. However evidence for the link looks indirect.
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2013, 09:47:42 PM »

People will confess to a lot of wacky things under duress.

There have been so many wild stories about the Templars, it's hard to believe they even had the time to accomplish a fraction of it, much less the will.
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2013, 11:34:36 PM »

Are these the people who buried Jesus' wife under the Louvre?  Or is that another group? 
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