Author Topic: What's the deal on the Colossians  (Read 1452 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,425
What's the deal on the Colossians
« on: July 10, 2006, 09:36:07 PM »
How is verse 3:12 translated from the Greek. I have a stubborn Protestant friend that keeps dodging me. He doesn't want to admit that these letter were addressed to us. How should I respond to him?
Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.

Offline jlerms

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 826
  • O sweet Jesus, cleanse my soul.
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2006, 09:53:30 PM »
Demetrios I don't know the answer to your question but I was curious who you are quoting at the bottom of your profile.
'Kyrie, eleison' - that is to say, 'Lord, soothe me, comfort me, take away my pain, show me your steadfast love.' Thus mercy does not refer so much to justice or acquittal - a very Western interpretation - but to the infinite loving-kindness of God, and his compassion for his suffering children!"

thanks,   Juliana :)

Online Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,481
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 10:38:50 PM »
From the King James:

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

New Revised Standard Version:

As God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience.

New American Standard:

So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;

Basic English Bible:

As saints of God, then, holy and dearly loved, let your behaviour be marked by pity and mercy, kind feeling, a low opinion of yourselves, gentle ways, and a power of undergoing all things;

For looking up and comparing Scripture translations, "The Unbound Bible" is quite good, I think.

http://unbound.biola.edu/

What is there to dodge about this passage, out of curiosity?

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,425
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2006, 12:12:07 PM »
His email

Quote
Why is it all about Greeks?ÂÂ  Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, and Paul was a Jew.

He is doubting that these letters were written to the Christian Churches in Greece.ÂÂ  ::)

He probably doesn't like the fact that good things were said about them. ;D

I can't understand how some see a different message than others when it comes to scripture.


I'm sorry Juliana but I don't remember.ÂÂ  If I come across it again I will PM you.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 12:26:31 PM by Demetrios G. »
Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.

Offline Fr. David

  • The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,833
    • Iglesia Ortodoxa de los Santos Apóstoles
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2006, 12:29:06 PM »
Sounds like he's saying that, while the Colossian Greeks are among the elect of God, not all the elect of God are Greeks.  There were Jews, as well, and Romans, etc.

Yes, St. Paul was writing to Greeks in that particular epistle, but he wrote to other nationalities, as well, as did St. James and St. Peter (primarily Jews), and they are also included in "the elect of God."
Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,425
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2006, 12:34:59 PM »
Quote
Sounds like he's saying that, while the Colossian Greeks are among the elect of God, not all the elect of God are Greeks.  There were Jews, as well, and Romans, etc.

I understand that there were Jews and Romans among them. But this is comming from a Protestant Pastor not just a parishioner.
Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,252
  • Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2006, 12:42:18 PM »


He is doubting that these letters were written to the Christian Churches in Greece.  ::)


I guess I don't understand how this Colossians 3:12 contradicts verses 1:1-2 of the same book:

Quote
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father. (NAS)

Is your friend trying to convince you that 3:12 was somehow added to Colossians and therefore not part of the original Epistle?

Can you provide his reasoning? I could use a bitter laugh, reminding me of my days as a Protestant and how I also would commit eisegesis... :P
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,425
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2006, 12:52:25 PM »
Quote
Can you provide his reasoning?

I don't know Chris. That is why I posted. To see if he has any Reasoning before I give it to him.
Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,252
  • Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2006, 01:13:47 PM »
I guess he could make the argument that, God's Word being timeless, the epistle is also written for all people everywhere.

However, that is a basic assumption of the Scriptures in general.

I will be interested in learning why he wanted to reinforce the above assumption: what point is your pastor friend trying to lead up towards?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 01:15:48 PM by chris »
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,425
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2006, 02:32:30 PM »
Well Chris. I feel a lot has to do with the fact that I am Greek. Us Greeks sometimes radiate ethnic pride. Unwillingly sometimes. I believe he is challenging my ethnicity rather than my faith and it's turning out to be a barrier between us. He also stated that no Orthodox Christian ever shared his faith with him and he has never seen Orthodox Christians going to parks, projects and sharing the Gospel. He said he sees Protestant believers doing this. I have tried to make it as clear as possible that the chosen people of god are not just Greeks but are from all walks of life.ÂÂ  I also replied that I am trying to share my faith with you now. But you seem to not be open to our view of things.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 02:34:04 PM by Demetrios G. »
Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,252
  • Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!
Re: What's the deal on the Colossians
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2006, 01:33:18 AM »
Well Chris. I feel a lot has to do with the fact that I am Greek. Us Greeks sometimes radiate ethnic pride. Unwillingly sometimes. I believe he is challenging my ethnicity rather than my faith and it's turning out to be a barrier between us.


In the back of my mind, I actually was wondering if someting similar to this was going on with your friend; otherwise there really was not much of a reason to bring up his arguments as he did.

Quote
He also stated that no Orthodox Christian ever shared his faith with him and he has never seen Orthodox Christians going to parks, projects and sharing the Gospel. He said he sees Protestant believers doing this. I have tried to make it as clear as possible that the chosen people of god are not just Greeks but are from all walks of life.  I also replied that I am trying to share my faith with you now. But you seem to not be open to our view of things.

Well, maybe to Orthodox Christian had shared his faith with him...until now!

We have been told that 'none are so blind as those who won't see...'. Perhaps you have come across the willfully blind.

However, don't get frustrated. Keep praying for him and witness to him as you see fit. Also, don't forget...it is the Spirit that will convince your friend of the Truth of Orthodoxy, not you!
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus