Author Topic: learning Church Slavonic  (Read 3651 times)

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Offline brlon

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Re: learning Church Slavonic
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2016, 11:40:44 AM »
Just one of those things: perhaps to make Slavonic different from Greek - which in this instance uses the personal pronoun (ego) in the accusative case (me).   

Perhaps it just rolls off the tongue/sounds better?

People often ask what is the difference between Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox - this is one thing they could be told!

Offline mike

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Re: learning Church Slavonic
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2016, 12:24:44 PM »
I would surmise that the construction uses 'prizvati' (to call) in the infinitive with 'mi' (the personal pronoun 'az' (I)) in the dative case, qualifying who is the subject/performer of the verb.
Yeah, this is what I thought firstly, but I can't get what this usage of the dative case is doing... Does anyone know where in grammar books I can read about this construction?

Church Slavonic gramar is far from being logical. And they love gerund or participle constructions instead of normal verbs.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: learning Church Slavonic
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2016, 02:01:35 PM »
This is very counterintuitive indeed, I wonder if people actually talked like that or if this feature made its way into the texts later.
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Offline mike

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Re: learning Church Slavonic
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2016, 02:30:25 PM »
This is very counterintuitive indeed, I wonder if people actually talked like that or if this feature made its way into the texts later.

Church slavonic was never a language people talked in.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: learning Church Slavonic
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2016, 02:32:06 PM »
This is very counterintuitive indeed, I wonder if people actually talked like that or if this feature made its way into the texts later.

Church slavonic was never a language people talked in.


Which is why all this grammar talk.....


The OP wants to understand the DL/services....  bilingual service books will help with that...after he learns the alphabet to correlate the sounds...

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Offline Orest

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Re: learning Church Slavonic
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2016, 02:40:54 PM »
I would surmise that the construction uses 'prizvati' (to call) in the infinitive with 'mi' (the personal pronoun 'az' (I)) in the dative case, qualifying who is the subject/performer of the verb.
Yeah, this is what I thought firstly, but I can't get what this usage of the dative case is doing... Does anyone know where in grammar books I can read about this construction?

Church Slavonic gramar is far from being logical. And they love gerund or participle constructions instead of normal verbs.

What you didn't mention my favourite part of Old Church Slavonic grammar: the dative absolute:
Quote
39 The Dative Case

The dative case performed a wide array of functions. At a fundamental level, the dative was used for a substantive with reference to which the action took place, or to which a concept is relevant. Thus the datiev is regularly the complement of such adjectives as тъчьнъ 'similar (to)' and ѹгодьнъ 'pleasing (to)'. Such a dative may be only tenuously associated with the action at hand, e.g. съмотри жє ми зълодѣиство ихъ 'consider, for me, their crime'. The dative may also indicate that the action happens for the referent's benefit: чловѣкѹ єтєрѹ богатѹ ѹгобьѕи сѧ н҄ива 'a field yielded itself richly for a certain man'. With verbs of giving and saying these notions coalesce in the indirect object: даждь ми... сьдє на мисѣ главѫ иоана крьститєлја 'give me the head of John the Baptist on a platter'; и рєчє отрокомъ своимъ сь єстъ иоанъ крьститєл҄ь 'and he said to his servants: This is John the Baptist'. The dative may have a weak possessive force, akin to the genitive, e.g. дрѹгъ ми 'my friend'. With verbs of motion or statements implying motion, the dative may have a directional meaning: сє цѣсар҄ь твои грѧдєтъ тєбѣ 'behold thy King cometh unto thee'. 

https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/ocsol/80

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: learning Church Slavonic
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2016, 04:35:42 PM »
For some reason I can't quote posts from my phone.

@mike: I know, but most of its traits come from spoken language, so I wonder which.

@DeniseDenise: Actually, I resurrected an old thread so its posters would see my question. :P If some admin wish to move it...

@Orest: Thanks for the reference! So it's something like "When I called upon him for myself..."
"He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty." (Psalm 90:1)

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese). Last article: Como posso lidar com minha condição pecadora?