Author Topic: What is up with The Ziz?  (Read 1342 times)

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Offline JoeS

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What is up with The Ziz?
« on: July 06, 2006, 08:48:58 AM »
http://digilander.libero.it/ortodossia/Zizioulas.htm

Controversial Metropolitan.  Is he in line for EP?

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Offline GiC

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2006, 09:12:21 AM »
http://digilander.libero.it/ortodossia/Zizioulas.htm

Controversial Metropolitan.ÂÂ  Is he in line for EP?

 ::)

He would make a good patriarch, though I don't believe he's a turkish citizen. The concerns of the author of the above article are clearly unfounded.
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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2006, 09:21:27 AM »
Controversial Metropolitan.  Is he in line for EP?

Just remember the most important refrain when reading "information" on the Internet: Caveat lector! One important thing to do is look at the quality and biases of the author one is reading. This Italian site has a "Recommended Links" section in its Italian section, which includes links to romanity.org (Fr. John Romanides, et al.), the Patriarchate of Moscow, Fr. Serfes' site, and several other personal sites put together by some amateur historians. None of that is bad or wrong or not worth reading. Just worth noting.

Zizioulas' work is not above criticism, of course. It's not like he's infallible or all-knowing or perfect (who is?). For example, we talked about this on this recent thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=9369.msg126069#msg126069
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2006, 10:25:13 AM »
Is he in line for EP?   

No, he's not.  Besides the fact that none of us think that he's a Turkish citizen, and we can bank that he hasn't done his Turkish military service, when I was in Istambul we met many of the most prominent bishops of the EP, and those we didn't meet were mentioned in various conversations with the EP himself or with other hierarchs.  He wasn't mentioned once, which isn't necessarily a snub (they do like him there at the Patriarchate), but it does mean that he's not a "mover and shaker" when it comes to the operation of the Patriarchate.
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Offline Dismus

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2006, 01:33:31 PM »
Just reading this article you get the impression there is a bias simply from the choice of adjectives they use and the constant overemphasis that is repeated throughout.
I don't know anything about this man but if he were "guilty" of these things, it does not make sense to me. I mean, would he think he would be able to "reform" Orthodoxy? That won't happen.
Plus, as an aside, why would he not just go Roman?
I mean it sounds like maybe some people are condemming him and I always wonder when that happens if it is really something else they are upset about and just using this to bolster their position.
If he is a renegade, that is serious. But, I would guess that other "higher ups" are watching him and if he is in error, time will tell.
This has happened before has it not? I recall reading some stuff a while back, and they always get caught eventually? right?

Offline sdcheung

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2006, 01:54:47 PM »
I'm not liking The Ziz

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Offline DavidH

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2006, 06:27:43 PM »
He would make a good patriarch, though I don't believe he's a turkish citizen. The concerns of the author of the above article are clearly unfounded.

Do you believe the concerns are unfounded because they misrepresent his true beliefs or that these are his beliefs and those beliefs are truly Orthodox?

Offline GiC

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2006, 07:31:27 PM »
Do you believe the concerns are unfounded because they misrepresent his true beliefs or that these are his beliefs and those beliefs are truly Orthodox?

Yes.
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline DavidH

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2006, 07:47:45 PM »
Yes.

Thank you, GiC, that's as clear as mud, and typically "Byzantine" (in the Gibbon's sense) as I could hope for. Could it also be Ciceronian, I wonder?

Offline JoeS

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2006, 09:40:53 PM »
Do you believe the concerns are unfounded because they misrepresent his true beliefs or that these are his beliefs and those beliefs are truly Orthodox?


My feeling is that The Ziz does believe his own take on ecumenicalism and this is what worries more than a few church leaders.

Offline sdcheung

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Re: What is up with The Ziz?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2006, 10:13:29 PM »
"The Ziz"

Ziz
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The ziz is a giant bird in Jewish mythology, said to be large enough to be able to block out the sun with its wingspan; perhaps somewhat similar to a roc.

According to tradition, the meat of this bird will be served as a meal, along with the behemoth and the leviathan, in the banquet at End Times. The Persian Simurgh, which is arguably a fifth accompaniment to the Kar, the Khara, the Hadhayosh, and another bird, the Chamrosh, has been said to be equated by the rabbis with the ziz, their three future-meal giant animals corresponding to the archetypal creatures of Persian mythology. The trio of behemoth, leviathan and ziz was traditionally a favorite decoration motif for rabbis living in Germany.

Some say that the ziz was created to protect all of the class Aves and that if the ziz did not exist, all the smaller birds on Earth would be helpless and would have been killed.

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