Author Topic: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?  (Read 4804 times)

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Offline _Anna_L

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Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« on: July 05, 2006, 05:01:07 PM »

Offline aserb

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2006, 08:04:11 PM »
ONE WORD - - KOSOVO
Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!

Offline Timos

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2006, 10:52:41 PM »
possible? Umm yeah...let's see: many slavs suffered in communist gulags.  In the 50's many (greek and other) orthodox clergy and laity were killed in Constantinople. Depending on your stance of the Copic church, the murders of a town called Al-Kosheh, and now Kosovo.

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2006, 01:36:04 AM »
So - well - the article tells about three more martyrs - quite unfamiliar to the English-speaking - unfortunately....

Offline Salpy

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2006, 02:12:41 AM »
If your definition of "nowdays" includes the past 100 years, then not only is it possible, but more Christians have been martyred for their faith during this time than any other time in history.  Most of those slaughtered have been Orthodox Christians and it is a tragedy of which most people in the West are pretty much unaware:


http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm


One of the sad things about this article is that it doesn't even cover all of the martyrdom which has taken place in the past century.  There have been other persecutions and massacres of other Orthodox people, in addition to the ones described by the author.

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2006, 11:25:42 AM »
 :'( :'(
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

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Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2006, 05:28:16 PM »
If your definition of "nowdays" includes the past 100 years, then not only is it possible, but more Christians have been martyred for their faith during this time than any other time in history.ÂÂ  Most of those slaughtered have been Orthodox Christians and it is a tragedy of which most people in the West are pretty much unaware:


http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm


One of the sad things about this article is that it doesn't even cover all of the martyrdom which has taken place in the past century.ÂÂ  There have been other persecutions and massacres of other Orthodox people, in addition to the ones described by the author.

surelyÂÂ  - The Russian land was really poured with the blood of the holy new martyrs - only at Butovo - near Moscow - thousands of priests were murdered...

And we want to translate some more things about all that. As for the article - it wasn't our aim to tell about all the martyrs :) There are QUITE A LOT OF works in English on the subject, however this page seems to have been left blank... Now it isnt anymore
« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 05:30:06 PM by _Anna_L »

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2006, 05:50:49 PM »


Martyr Milica Rakic, killed at the age of 9 during the 1999 bombing of Serbia
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2006, 05:53:40 PM »
Was she glorified (not sure if the word is correct) by the Church??? So little time has passed... And why is she a martyr? Is there any text about her?

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2006, 06:03:00 PM »
I dont know, I know she is considered a saint within the Serbian Orthodox Church, but personally, if you ask me, it's stupid. Purely for political reasons.
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2006, 06:04:17 PM »
my mistake she was 3 years old, not 9
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2006, 06:04:40 PM »
I dont know, I know she is considered a saint within the Serbian Orthodox Church, but personally, if you ask me, it's stupid. Purely for political reasons.

What is stupid????

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2006, 06:06:36 PM »
What is stupid????

Declaring her a Martyr, all for the wrong reasons, and surely shes not the only child that has died in an Orthodox country do to brutality.
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2006, 06:09:00 PM »
Well - it depends whether there was an official glorification. Sometimes saints can be... well - like a symbol - one representing many...

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2006, 06:19:45 PM »
Well - it depends whether there was an official glorification. Sometimes saints can be... well - like a symbol - one representing many...

I dont know if there was a glorification, but like you said, it makes good sense for her to represent many (casualties during the bombing I guess).
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2006, 06:55:26 PM »
Thanks for posting this, Anna.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2006, 06:57:09 PM »
Welcome!!!

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2006, 07:05:23 PM »
Quote
The mother of monk Trofim did not manage to be in time for her son's burial. When the news of his death had come, she was being treated in a hospital after a stroke. The doctors prohibited her from flying by airplane, so she had to travel by train from Siberia


I cannot imagine the feelings she went through..God bless her...
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2006, 07:07:31 PM »


I cannot imagine the feelings she went through..God bless her...

And she became a nun later...

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2006, 11:20:57 PM »
Quote
Martyr Milica Rakic, killed at the age of 9 during the 1999 bombing of Serbia

Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith? 

Offline Elisha

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2006, 01:03:44 AM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=9444.msg127071#msg127071 date=1152242457]
Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith? 
[/quote]

We probably aren't the best to be asking this question of.  Maybe the seminarians here?

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2006, 01:13:27 AM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=9444.msg127071#msg127071 date=1152242457]
Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?ÂÂ  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?ÂÂ  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith?ÂÂ  
[/quote]

Like I said, the Martyring of a 3 year old girl in Serbia is obviously for stupid political reasons. So in 50 years when USA and Serbia have good ties again, and Bush JR JR visits, Kostunica JR JR will be like "Yea, when you bombe dus you killed this poor 3 year old child. Shame on you."
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2006, 01:35:46 AM »
Yeah, in this one case the politics are obvious.ÂÂ  In the more general trend, I recall reading a few lives of martyrs that met a violent death but the violence was largely irrelevant to their religion.ÂÂ  Like if I went to Iran and starting singing GOD BLESS AMERICA and was killed I wouldn't be a martyr for Orthodoxy.... I don't think.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 01:36:41 AM by ΝεκτάρÃÅ »

Offline Anna_l

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2006, 05:41:21 AM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=9444.msg127071#msg127071 date=1152242457]
Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith? 
[/quote]

well - I suppose - each case is individual. It was all clear when a person is killed because he is a Christian - but - imagine how many things can be here - consider - a priest is going somewhere and ... well - after he visited his friend he is slightly drunk - not the best state to die at. And some satanists see him nd kill him because - and ONLY because- he is a priest - will he a martyr? He will be... even if his inner state could be better...

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2006, 05:44:52 AM »
Pardon :)
The previous one is my reply - forgot the username:)

Offline juan

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2006, 05:28:09 AM »
From where is this icon of Milica?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 05:29:56 AM by juan »

Offline Thomas

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2006, 05:48:22 PM »
The Holy Royal Martyrs (ROCOR terminolgy)ÂÂ  and the Holy Royal PassionBearers (Moscow Patriarchate terminology) for the Romanov Family are indicative of how their Glorification to sainthood are looked at:

The Holy Royal Martyrs title indicates that A God annointed Tsar, his Tsarina and Children were killed by a Godless (read that Satanic) organization that martyred them because they were God's Annointed rulers. attacked His Holy Church, Martyred Bishops, Priests , Religous, and Laity in an attempt to wipe out the Church of God and it influence. Therefore they are Martyrs along with all others who were martyred.

The Holy Royal Passionbearers title indicates that a God Annointed Tsar, his Tsarina and Children soughtÂÂ  to humbly submit themselves to God will in order to avoid further bloodshed in their beloved country. THe Tsar abdicated to try to prevent bloodshed.ÂÂ  The Tsar refused to call upon others to save himself or his family to avoid/limit further bloodshed. He and his family inspite of humiliation and mistreatment bore that treatment with Christian humility, praying for their captors , and by all reports showing the behavior expected of those who had been annointed by God, and continued Christian Faith until their death at the hand of a Godless (read that Satanic) organization . Their seeking to avoid bloodshed and humble submission was deemed to make them passionbearers much as the Russian Princes Boris and Gleb were.

By these two assertions, they could be called by either name depending upon which you would see as greater importance.

In Christ,
Thomas
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 01:16:43 AM by Thomas »
Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas

Offline Sloga

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2006, 07:54:43 PM »
From where is this icon of Milica?

She is an offical Saint of the Serbian Orthodox Church brate!

http://freeserbs.org/lat?a=l&doc=/land/Milica_Rakich/Novi_Svetac
« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 07:55:38 PM by Sloga »
Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic

Offline hedley

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2006, 07:46:35 PM »
Anna

Thank you for posting the story of the Optina martyrs.

The story of the twentieth century martyrs can helpt, I think, to open people's hearts to Christianity.

I have often thought it would be a usefull form of evangelism to put the story of their their lives onto the mass media.

Do you know of any that would make good radio plays, plays or movies?

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2006, 04:29:27 AM »
Anna

Thank you for posting the story of the Optina martyrs.

The story of the twentieth century martyrs can helpt, I think, to open people's hearts to Christianity.

I have often thought it would be a usefull form of evangelism to put the story of their their lives onto the mass media.

Do you know of any that would make good radio plays, plays or movies?

Well, thats a good question... I think so. Actually, I think that quite a lot of films have been shot recently, but in Russian. And well, I suppose that practically any story or narration can be transformed into such a media thing. We'll soon publish one chapter of a book - it must really be perfect for these aims!

Offline hedley

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2006, 09:57:05 AM »
I think that quite a lot of films have been shot recently, but in Russian.

It would be grand if the better ones could be subtitled or dubbed in English.
Fancy starting a little internet distrbution business?

Offline _Anna_L

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Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2006, 12:01:42 PM »
It would be grand if the better ones could be subtitled or dubbed in English.
Fancy starting a little internet distrbution business?
YEs, I know :) But we hardly have any possibility to do anything except from translating some texts occasionally....