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Author Topic: The aggravating of schism in Coptic Church  (Read 1859 times) Average Rating: 0
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SamB
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« on: July 03, 2006, 04:24:57 PM »

A clerical renegade, Maximos, has begun consecrating bishops to form his own rival synod.ÂÂ  It looks like he was already a freelance vagante who has just taken the provocative step of forming an actual synod to compete against the Church's government and to spread (though I believe he said on television that he wishes to 'add', not to replace or compete).ÂÂ  Apparently he has been a thorn in the side since the 80s when he attempted to form his own church faction.ÂÂ  One of the issues of contention (though I imagine it to be a side matter) seems to be the matter of extending justification for divorce to beyond the grievance of adultery.ÂÂ  It is also said that the schismatic cleric is not a serious threat and doesn't enjoy sufficient popularity to pose as one.

For Coptic board members, here is the brief article I have on the subject.ÂÂ  If you can fill us in some more...

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« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 04:39:07 PM by SamB » Logged
SamB
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2006, 04:25:23 PM »

اعلÙ† ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â£Ã™â€ با ماكسÙÅ موس الأول راعÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’™Æ’Ù†ÙÅ سة المقتم المÙ†شقة عÙ† ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™Æ’Ù†ÙÅ سة الأورثوذكسÙÅ Ø© الأم تدشÙÅ Ù† ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™â€¦Ã˜Â¬Ã™â€¦Ã˜Â¹ المقدس لكÙ†ÙÅ سته والذÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â³Ã™Å صبح موازÙÅ ا للمجمع الذÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’™Å رأسه بطرÙÅ رك الأقباط البابا شنودة الثالث.  وقللت اوساط الكÙ†ÙÅ سة المرقسÙÅ Ø© والمفكرÙÅ Ù† ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â£Ã™â€šÃ˜Â¨Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â· من ÃƒÆ’˜Â¥Ã™â€¦Ã™Æ’اÙ† ÃƒÆ’˜ÂªÃ˜Â£Ã˜Â«Ã™Å ر المجمع الجدÙÅ د على الكÙ†ÙÅ سة الأم.

واعلÙ† ÃƒÆ’™â€¦Ã˜Â§Ã™Æ’سÙÅ موس أن ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™â€¦Ã˜Â¬Ã™â€¦Ã˜Â¹ الجدÙÅ د ÙÅ هدف الى مساعدة المشردÙÅ Ù† ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â°Ã™Å Ù† ÃƒÆ’˜ÂªÃ˜Â±Ã™Æ’تهم الكÙ†ÙÅ سة، وإعادة الÙ†اس إلى الكÙ†ÙÅ سة والسماح للأقباط بالطلاق فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜ÂºÃ™Å ر حالات الزÙ†ا.  وقام برسم أسقفÙÅ Ù† ÃƒÆ’™â€¦Ã˜Â³Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â¹Ã˜Â¯Ã™Å Ù†، فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â®Ã˜Â·Ã™Ë†Ã˜Â© لتشكÙÅ Ù„ Ù†واة لإقامة أبرشÙÅ ات فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’™Æ’Ù„ أنحاء مصر.

واستÙ†كرت مصادر كنسÙÅ Ø© الخطوة رافضة التعامل معها.  وقال رئÙÅ س مطراÙ†ÙÅ Ø© شبرا الخÙÅ مة الأÙ†با مرقص إن "المجمج الجدÙÅ د غÙÅ ر معترف به وندعو ماكسÙÅ موس الى التوبة". وقلل المفكر القبطÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’™â€¦Ã™Å لاد حنا من ÃƒÆ’˜ÂªÃ™ÂÃ˜Â§Ã˜Â¤Ã™â€ž ماكسÙÅ موس قائالاً إنه "شخصÙÅ Ø© غÙÅ ر معروفة فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â¯Ã™Ë†Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â¦Ã˜Â± القبطÙÅ Ø© ولÙÅ ست له الشعبÙÅ Ø© التÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜ÂªÃ˜Â³Ã™â€¦Ã˜Â­ له القÙÅ ام بالدور الذÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’™Å بغÙÅ Ù‡".  وقال الÙ†اشط القبطÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â±Ã™ÂÃ™Å Ù‚ حبÙÅ ب اÙ† ÃƒÆ’˜Â­Ã™â€žÃ˜Â§Ã™ÂÃ˜Â§Ã˜Âª الأÙ†با ماكسÙÅ موس مع الكÙ†ÙÅ سة المصرÙÅ Ø© طوÙÅ لة وتعود إلى ثماÙ†ÙÅ Ù†ات القرÙ† ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™â€¦Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â¶Ã™Å ØŒ عÙ†دما ترك الكÙ†ÙÅ سة وحاول إنشاء كنÙÅ سة خاصة به.

إلى ذلك، ÙÅ عود البابا شنودة إلى القاهرة الأحد المقبل بعد رحلة علاج فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™Ë†Ã™â€žÃ˜Â§Ã™Å ات المتحدة وألماÙ†ÙÅ ا.  وقال السكرتÙÅ ر البابوÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â£Ã™â€ با ارمÙÅ ا إن ÃƒÆ’˜Â´Ã™â€ ودة فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜ÂµÃ˜Â­Ã˜Â© جÙÅ دة وتماثل للشفاء ÙˆÙÅ مارس Ù†شاطه بشكل طبÙÅ عÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’™ÂÃ™Å  ÃƒÆ’™â€¦Ã™â€šÃ˜Â± اقامته فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’™Æ’Ù„ÙÅ فلاÙ†د فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™Ë†Ã™â€žÃ˜Â§Ã™Å ات المتحدة.  واوضح اÙ† ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â¨Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â¨Ã˜Â§ شنودة اجرÙÅ ت له عملÙÅ Ø© حقÙ† ÃƒÆ’™ÂÃ™Å  ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â¹Ã™â€¦Ã™Ë†Ã˜Â¯ الفقرÙÅ ØŒ مشÙÅ را إلى اÙ† ÃƒÆ’˜Â¹Ã™â€¦Ã™â€žÃ™Å Ø© إزالة الغضروف المؤثر على القدم الÙŠمنى تأجلت بÙ†اء على Ù†صÙÅ حة الأطباء فÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â£Ã™â€žÃ™â€¦Ã˜Â§Ã™â€ ÙÅ ا بسبب خاحة الكلÙÅ  ÃƒÆ’˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™â€° العلاج.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 05:03:17 PM by SamB » Logged
EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2006, 05:24:14 PM »

Ah, if it isn't good ole' Mr. Maxie Michelle playing his usual games...This man is a nobody; he was not even a clergy member to begin with. He was a lay person who wrote an heretical article regarding the Holy Spirit for his local parish. When the Bishop found out about it, he told him to repent of his error. Maxie Max, full of pride as he is, refused to submit to his Bishop's command, and maintained his heresy. Consequently, he was ex-communicated. As a reaction to this, he elevated himself to Patriarch and now he wants to start forming a synod of Bishops. He has not progressed anywhere for the past couple of years and he will not get any further. He's got mental problems.

His Church is apparently called "The Church of St. Athanasius". Since when did the Church belong to a Church Father and not to the Lord Christ? The very title of his Church reveals his stupidity and ignorance.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 05:25:10 PM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2006, 05:40:46 PM »

So he never was ordained from the start, then?  Usually first base is covered by such characters.

I did smell media hype, but didn't suppose he was that insignificant; I thought he could at least boast of an ecclesiastical history within the orders of the Church. Thanks for the information.

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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2006, 12:06:39 AM »

Arabic media simply cannot be trusted with respect to matters relating to the Church. They have evidently blown this issue out of proportion; Mr. Maxie Max has not caused a ripple in the Church. This matter does not deserve any media attention per se, let alone media attention of the sensationalised form served by the various arab media organisations. Obviously there is an anti-Christian agenda to depict disunity and conflict within the Church where it simply doesn't exist to any significant extent.

The arab media (specifically al-ahram) were just recently exposed for "mistranslating" the Greek Patriarch of Alexandria on a very sensitive matter pertinent to EO-OO unity. They issued a recent article quoting Patriarch Theodore II allegedly declaring the Coptic Orthodox Church to be "monophysite". You can read about this alleged "mistranslation" here: http://www.theholysynod.copticpope.org/eng_explan.htm
« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 12:08:29 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2006, 11:16:05 AM »

It isn't knowledge closely guarded that the Egyptian press plays tabloid journalism in Church matters.ÂÂ  I wouldn't reference them. ÂÂ I did choose to provide in this thread an article from a Lebanese paper for its brevity and absence of theatrical posturing and hyperbolic reporting (except perhaps in referring to 'al-kaneesatil-um', which may imply to some that the other party, Maximos' offshoot, is a viable or solidly-established jurisdictional entity) so that members with proper knowledge of the matter could provide the details.

But the lack of discretion in Maximos' and an Egyptian Copt's arguing over the phone about the former's case on one of the Orbit programmes was enough schoolboy behaviour of nashir ghaseel to clue one in on some measure of pettiness in the matter.ÂÂ  With the exception of the article posted, I haven't even seen what the Arabic press in general is saying about this, but assuming by default that the fellow was a legitimate clergyman, I wondered if there was some weight of significance in the nature of his provocation despite knowledge of the strong cohesion found within the Coptic Church.

The input was appreciated.

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« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 11:27:22 AM by SamB » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 03:12:04 AM »

Here are a couple of pictures of this self appointed bishop/patriarch Maximus (Max Michelle) from the Arabic papers trumping up his establishment of an alternative “Holy Synod” to rival/replace that of the Coptic Orthodox Church.


False bishop Maximus "ordaining" another false bishop


Bishop Max wearing the Coptic Patriarchal vestments and giving an interview wit the Arab press

What bothers me is that this guy claims to have receive his ordination to the priesthood from a group in America called “The Orthodox Church in America” or "The American Orthodox Church". The article mentions that this church in America is Russion in origin. Has anyone heard of this vagante group? I am sure he doesn’t mean OCA (Orthodox Church in America). By the way, this supposed bishop is married with children and wishes to change the Coptic Church’s stance on divorce by allowing divorce for reasons other than adultery. He also has personal enmity with H.H. Pope Shenouda who stopped him from giving sermons in 1983 due to "unorthodox" statements he was making during sermons.

http://dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2128

A couple articles in Arabic quoting official Coptic Orthodox view of this self made bishop
http://www.almasry-alyoum.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=22354

http://www.almasry-alyoum.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=22353
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 11:30:05 AM by Dimitrius » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2006, 07:32:45 AM »

I'm curious: within the Eastern Orthodox communion, an individual bishop is ordained by three other bishops. This is done intentionally to show the relational and conciliar nature of the Church, etc...

This individual in question is apparently elevating a bishop just by himself. Is that the tradition within the Coptic Church?  If the Copts have a similar tradition regarding the need for three bishops for an episcopal ordination, is much being made that this pretender is creating his own bishops 'out of thin air', as it were?
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2006, 10:18:09 PM »

May the Lord preserve the life and standing of our honored father Papa Abba Shenouda III, Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and the See of St. Mark.
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2006, 06:33:06 PM »

I'm curious: within the Eastern Orthodox communion, an individual bishop is ordained by three other bishops. This is done intentionally to show the relational and conciliar nature of the Church, etc...

This individual in question is apparently elevating a bishop just by himself. Is that the tradition within the Coptic Church?  If the Copts have a similar tradition regarding the need for three bishops for an episcopal ordination, is much being made that this pretender is creating his own bishops 'out of thin air', as it were?

Same rule, at least three bishops must participate in the ordination of a bishop.  Of course current practice is that the Patriarch must be one of those bishops, no three bishops in the real Synod would try to ordain another bishop behind the Pope's back.
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2006, 05:44:33 PM »

I read in one article (sorry don't have a link; I found it via google news search) that this "bishop" Maximos was consecrated in Seward Nebraska by a group of Old Calendar Greek Orthodox Church members.  Why would a group of Old Calendar Greeks be involved with affairs of the Coptic Church?  It sounds bogus, but if anyone has some news on this, please post it.

Thanks.

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