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Author Topic: Episcopalians elect first female leader  (Read 11486 times) Average Rating: 0
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TomS
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« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2006, 12:52:17 PM »

Honestly, folks---GiC is someone who just 'stirs up the pot' because in his warped and twisted fashion he enjoys observing the reaction, using the controversy to feed his ego.

Geez! I hate people like that!ÂÂ  Wink

Very good distinction. If you are a Protestant/liberal in mind but go to "St Sophia's" on Sunday you're ok! Wink

 Shocked
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« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2006, 01:46:46 PM »

You know what's funny? I actually was NOT thinking of Tom when I wrote this--but I can see why he would think I was! (Tom you are not Greek so of course I was not knocking you personally Smiley)

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« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2006, 02:05:55 PM »

not to get side-tracked but: One way to find out who is a protestant/liberal in your  local GOA parish church, I've found is if they're part of the "choir" or really root for the choir. I know that is an overgeneralization but often the people in the choir had a disgust for tradition, for anything really Greek or Byzantine (except for food and dance go figure).

Couple years ago my priest asked me to join the newly-formed choir. Like an idiot, I assumed that the choir was going to be the same as the chanters butt with women singing also (kinda like the Boston Byzantine Choir). Man, was I shocked when I saw the old man pound on the keyboard and women singing like 3 different harmonies. Since then, I have quit the choir...I don't know what it is with priests insisting on having the choir sing anything but Byzantine chant.

Greeks and choirs don't mach- bottom line! Lets leave that to the Slavs.
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« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2006, 02:45:09 PM »

You know what's funny? I actually was NOT thinking of Tom when I wrote this--

I really did not think that you were referring to me. But you have to admit - it fits me!  Cheesy
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« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2006, 02:55:13 PM »

not to get side-tracked but: One way to find out who is a protestant/liberal in yourÂÂ  local GOA parish church, I've found is if they're part of the "choir" or really root for the choir. I know that is an overgeneralization but often the people in the choir had a disgust for tradition, for anything really Greek or Byzantine (except for food and dance go figure).

Couple years ago my priest asked me to join the newly-formed choir. Like an idiot, I assumed that the choir was going to be the same as the chanters butt with women singing also (kinda like the Boston Byzantine Choir). Man, was I shocked when I saw the old man pound on the keyboard and women singing like 3 different harmonies. Since then, I have quit the choir...I don't know what it is with priests insisting on having the choir sing anything but Byzantine chant.

Greeks and choirs don't mach- bottom line! Lets leave that to the Slavs.
From you are saying, it sounds like my OCA parish choir sings Byzantine far better than most GOA choirs....and we have only a dozen or so Greeks in our parish an one old battleaxe Serb lady.  What I REALLY hate are those ridiculous Protestant choir robes many of them wear.  Stupid.
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« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2006, 02:59:12 PM »

You know what's funny? I actually was NOT thinking of Tom when I wrote this--but I can see why he would think I was! (Tom you are not Greek so of course I was not knocking you personally Smiley)

Anastasios

LOL! For some reason I DID think of Tom when I read that...and about two dozen others "Greeks"  Cheesy
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« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2006, 03:05:13 PM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I just received an email, from a former co-worker:  "By the way, we left the church that we were going to and we are going to ----- (our friends) church. As of last week the church is no longer Episcopal and is now a part of the Anglican Community Network.  It was the church of St. Andrew and St. Phillip and is now named Church of the Apostles Evangelical Anglican. Pray for other churches who are hoping to do the same but are against legal battles ect." So the exodus, from hetrodox bishops to those "orthodox" is beginning. 
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« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2006, 03:14:40 PM »

That's the Anglican Communion Network and it's been going on for a while. That means they've left the Episcopal Church and switched to being under an overseas Anglican bishop, maybe in Africa.

The court cases happen when such churches try to take their buildings with them. The courts say no, the buildings belong to the Episcopal bishop/diocese.
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« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2006, 03:33:19 PM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I just checked the web site of the Anglican Communion Network, rather impressive.  I wonder what Canterbury will finally say and do for these groups that want to remain "orthodox" Anglicans?
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« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2006, 03:56:12 PM »

The way things are going I wouldn't rule out the Communion replacing ECUSA as their official province in America with this group or a group including it.
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« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2006, 04:23:17 PM »

The moderates are starting to come apart too, because the people who have been saying that "schism is worse than heresy" (perhaps the most unOrthodox sentiment possible)ÂÂ  are now being to think (correctly, IMO) that whatever they do, they will have schism.

'Schism is worse than heresy' is such a heterodox sentiment that it was even advocated by St. John Chrysostom.
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« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2006, 04:40:02 PM »

Saints including church fathers have also believed things like unbaptised babies burn in hell, no exceptions, because of the justice of God. They're fallible and can later be found wrong by the church. What the church can't do is rewrite past defined doctrines.

I agree with Keble that it's an un-Orthodox sentiment. Who's easier to reconcile with the Orthodox communion, the priestless Old Believers or the Unitarian Universalists?
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« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2006, 05:13:37 PM »

HOT NEWS FLASH

The primary resolution on Windsor Report compliance was voted down commandingly. What this means is anyone's guess, or in Jim Naughton's words:

"I don't think we are thumbing our noses because that would require enough coordination to get our hands to our faces."

All three of the main conservative blogs watching the action have crashed.
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« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2006, 05:43:51 PM »

Greeks and choirs don't mach- bottom line! Lets leave that to the Slavs.

Its cause you greeks cant sing like we do  Wink
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« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2006, 06:34:27 PM »

Its cause you greeks cant sing like we do  Wink

Sad, but true.  Wink
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« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2006, 08:41:29 PM »

Saints including church fathers have also believed things like unbaptised babies burn in hell, no exceptions, because of the justice of God. They're fallible and can later be found wrong by the church. What the church can't do is rewrite past defined doctrines.

I agree with Keble that it's an un-Orthodox sentiment. Who's easier to reconcile with the Orthodox communion, the priestless Old Believers or the Unitarian Universalists?

You are free to believe as you wish on the matter, you are correct there is no absolutely defined dogma. But who commits the greater crime, the one who leaves his king for the service of another, or he that slays his king upon his throne, and then tears his body limb from limb? For the former is the heretic who simply departs from the body of Christ, the latter is the schismatic who tears it asunder.
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« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2006, 09:10:49 PM »

There are no canons of the Seven Oecumenical Synods that forbid the ordination of women. Roll Eyes

And, quite frankly, we Orthodox have enough of our own problems without having to harbour disgruntled protestants; I suggest they stay and try to improve their lot by working within their church.

Thank you for the correction, I thought that it was against canon law to ordain Womem as Priest and bishops. Thats what I was told that it was against the Canon Laws
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« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2006, 09:32:08 PM »

a little offtopic but......

Episcopal Church group rejects curb on gay bishops

CHICAGO (Reuters) - A proposal for the U.S. Episcopal Church to impose an unofficial moratorium on ordaining more openly gay bishops was rejected on Tuesday in a vote that could further roil relations with fellow Anglicans worldwide.

The issue is not completely dead since the triennial convention of the 2.3-million-member U.S. church will not close until Wednesday evening and the issue could be revived.

But the rejection by one of two legislative policy-making houses meeting in Columbus, Ohio, makes it less likely that the church will impose a moratorium on future gay bishops as the Anglican church spiritual leadership had suggested.

The Anglican Communion, as the global church is known, has been in turmoil for three years since the last such convention of the U.S. church approved the consecration of Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first bishop known to be in an openly gay relationship in more than 450 years of Anglican history.

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« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2006, 09:43:51 PM »

Ok, now bring on the homosexuals and it'll be all good. Smiley
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« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2006, 11:43:54 AM »

Slava Isusu Christ! / Glory to Jesus Christ!

Received this from another group I'm on...

June 28, 2006

Anglican Plan Threatens Split on Gay Issues

New York Times - By LAURIE GOODSTEIN and NEELA BANERJEE
In a defining moment in the Anglican Communion's civil war over 
homosexuality, the Archbishop of Canterbury proposed a plan yesterday 
that could force the Episcopal Church in the United States either to 
renounce gay bishops and same-sex unions or to give up full 
membership in the Communion.

The archbishop, the Most Rev. Rowan Williams, said the "best way 
forward" was to devise a shared theological "covenant" and ask each 
province, as the geographical divisions of the church are called, to 
agree to abide by it.

Provinces that agree would retain full status as "constituent 
churches," and those that do not would become "churches in 
association" without decision-making status in the Communion, the 
world's third largest body of churches.

Conservatives hailed the archbishop's move as an affirmation that the 
American church stepped outside the bounds of Christian orthodoxy 
when it ordained a gay bishop three years ago.

The archbishop wrote, "No member church can make significant 
decisions unilaterally and still expect this to make no difference to 
how it is regarded in the fellowship."

Leaders of the Episcopal Church — the Communion's American province, 
long dominated by theological liberals — sought to play down the 
statement's import, saying it was just one more exchange in a long 
dialogue they expected to continue within the Communion.

The archbishop said his proposal could allow local churches in the 
United States to separate from the Episcopal Church and join the 
American wing that stays in the Communion. But that process could 
take years, and some American parishes are already planning to break 
from the Episcopal Church. Entire dioceses may announce their 
intention to depart, as soon as today.

The 38 provinces that make up the global Communion have been at odds 
since 2003, when the Episcopal Church ordained Bishop V. Gene 
Robinson, a gay man who lives with his partner, as bishop of the 
diocese of New Hampshire.

The archbishop's statement is the most solid official step yet in a 
long march toward schism. Twenty-two of the 38 provinces had already 
declared their ties with the American church to be "broken" or 
"impaired," but until now the Communion had hung together, waiting 
for guidance from the Archbishop of Canterbury. He is considered "the 
first among equals" in the Communion but does not dictate policy as 
the pope does in the Roman Catholic Church.

For the proposal to be enacted would take at least half a dozen major 
church meetings spread out over at least the next four years, the 
Rev. Canon Kenneth Kearon, secretary general of the Anglican 
Communion, said in a telephone interview.

What should be included in a covenant could become the next focus of 
debate. The idea of a covenant was first proposed in the "Windsor 
Report," issued in 2004 by a committee commissioned by the 
archbishop. Canon Kearon said, "Many churches welcome the idea of a 
covenant, but they didn't particularly welcome the text that was 
proposed." He said he did not regard the archbishop's proposal as a 
step toward schism but as a means to clarify "identity and common 
decision-making procedures" in the Communion.

Church liberals said that any "covenant" would be crafted with the 
participation of the American church and other provinces that favored 
full inclusion of gay people.

"I think the archbishop takes a long view and underscores the fact 
that we are involved in a process rather than a quick fix," Presiding 
Bishop Frank T. Griswold of the Episcopal Church said in a telephone 
interview.

Several church officials in communication with the archbishop's 
office said he wrote his six-page communiquй, which he called a 
"reflection," after the close of the Episcopal Church's convention 
last Wednesday in Columbus, Ohio.

At the convention, the church fell short of the demands in the 
Windsor Report for an explicit apology and a full "moratorium" on 
ordaining gay bishops. Instead, the church approved a conciliatory 
statement encouraging American dioceses to refrain from ordaining gay 
bishops.

But the convention also offended the conservatives by electing a new 
presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori of Nevada, who has been 
an outspoken advocate of full inclusion for gay people and who allows 
gay union ceremonies in churches in her diocese.

Bishop Jefferts Schori, who takes office after Bishop Griswold 
retires in November, will represent the American church in meetings 
with the world's primates, some of whom do not approve of women as 
priests or bishops.

She said in an interview yesterday that she was heartened by 
Archbishop Williams's comments in the letter that he would not be 
able to mend rifts over sexuality single-handedly.

"There were expectations out there that he would intervene or direct 
various people and provinces to do certain things, and he made it 
quite clear that it's not his role or responsibility to do that," 
Bishop Jefferts Schori said.

The Anglican Communion has about 77 million members in more than 160 
nations. Members in conservative provinces far outnumber those in the 
liberal provinces. The Episcopal Church has about 2.3 million members 
but contributes a disproportionate amount to Anglican Communion 
administration, charities and mission work. The Anglican Communion 
Network, a group leading the conservative response, said it had 
200,000 members last year.

The archbishop's proposal was greeted with satisfaction by 
conservative leaders in the United States, who had formed a powerful 
alliance with prelates in many of the provinces in Africa and in 
Asia, and in some parts of Latin America. The conservatives have 
insisted all along that it is the American church that destabilized 
the Anglican ship and should be pushed overboard if it will not relent.

The Rev. Canon David C. Anderson, president of the conservative 
American Anglican Council, said: "We really believe that the 
Episcopal Church wants to follow a course that takes it out of both 
Anglicanism and Christianity, as Christianity is historically known. 
So a two-tier approach looks good in theory."

Canon Anderson said the plan could be difficult in actuality, because 
many parishes and dioceses were ready to sever ties with the 
Episcopal Church now, years before the archbishop's plan for 
reorganization could take effect. He said that churches and dioceses 
had already asked to be put under the authority of bishops in Africa 
and Latin America and that many more would do so in coming months.

"The floodgates are starting to open," he said.

The division has already led to legal battles over church property. 
Under Episcopal Church bylaws, parish assets belong to the dioceses, 
but churches in some states have challenged that in court.

Archbishop Williams said in his statement, "The reason Anglicanism is 
worth bothering with is because it has tried to find a way of being a 
church that is neither tightly centralized nor a loose federation of 
essentially independent bodies."

But that decentralization will continue to be a cause of conflict 
unless it is addressed, he said, adding, "What our Communion lacks is 
a set of adequately developed structures which is able to cope with 
the diversity of views that will inevitably arise in a world of rapid 
global communication and huge cultural variety."

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« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2006, 02:03:28 PM »

A couple of days ago on a forum not-to-be-named quoting another not-to-be-named forum that this new 'bishop' has been uttering things about a transgender Jesus. Please say it ain't so. Perhaps our beloved Keble or Ebor might debunk this, please?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 02:04:58 PM by ΑριστÎÂà » Logged

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« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2006, 02:31:18 PM »

[quote author=Αριστοκλής link=topic=9306.msg126103#msg126103 date=1151604208]
A couple of days ago on a forum not-to-be-named quoting another not-to-be-named forum that this new 'bishop' has been uttering things about a transgender Jesus. Please say it ain't so. Perhaps our beloved Keble or Ebor might debunk this, please?
[/quote]

It would, alas, appear to be true:  http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/06/what_happens_ne.html
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« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2006, 03:21:09 PM »

Wow.  I'd make a joke about that, but I'm not that funny!
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« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2006, 04:28:51 PM »

Actually, this may result in some of the disaffected members coming into the Orthodox community. I do not know whether this is good or bad.

It already has begun. See here.http://rightwingnation.com/american-orthodox/?p=10
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« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2006, 05:02:06 PM »


Great, another disgruntled protestant seeking asylum under Orthodox Bishops...why can't they just become catholic?
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« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2006, 07:35:49 PM »

Great, another disgruntled protestant seeking asylum under Orthodox Bishops...why can't they just become catholic?
So, are you concerned by the possibility of growth of Orthodoxy? If I understood correctly, you would recommend them not to become Orthodox? Is that really what you mean?
In my opinion, that is really great that an experienced Protestant / ECUSA priest made a difficult, but a wise and correct decision according to his values and conclusions. We, as Orthodox, should welcome all of such people with open arms. I sincerely hope, that is just a beginning!
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« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2006, 09:00:00 PM »

So, are you concerned by the possibility of growth of Orthodoxy? If I understood correctly, you would recommend them not to become Orthodox? Is that really what you mean?
In my opinion, that is really great that an experienced Protestant / ECUSA priest made a difficult, but a wise and correct decision according to his values and conclusions. We, as Orthodox, should welcome all of such people with open arms. I sincerely hope, that is just a beginning!

Provided he truly wants to convert, great. But if he is simply converting because he has become fed up with what he believes to be the decline of the episcopal Church, then his conversion is mutually detrimental. The question I ask is that if the Anglican Church today was as it was in the 19th Century, conservative, high church, and, presumably, upholding the values this person advocates, and the Orthodox Church was the marginalized and disadvantaged group it then was would he still want to convert? The answer to that question should be the same as the answer to the question of whether or not he should convert.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2006, 09:38:11 PM by greekischristian » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2006, 10:55:09 PM »

That's a good point GiC brings up. It reminds me of when in the Cadfael books he was asked why someone should become a monk. The answer was to the effect that one shouldn't if he was running from something, only if he was running toward something.
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« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2006, 11:10:22 PM »

Great, another disgruntled protestant seeking asylum under Orthodox Bishops...why can't they just become catholic?

Please no!!!

Have them go to Willow Creek!

They have more in common Wink
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« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2006, 11:13:46 PM »

GiC...if you were to qualify what you said in the "why can't they just become catholic" quote with what you said in the post following it, you'd ruffle a lot fewer feathers.

Something I know you're not wont to do, I'm just saying.   Wink

Seriously, though, I actually agree with what you're saying, now that I know the reasons behind the horrible-sounding one-liner you started off with that I quoted above.  Taken by itself, that one-liner can cause all sorts of problems, but when clarified, it makes all kinds of sense.
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« Reply #75 on: July 01, 2006, 11:19:26 PM »

I just thought he was trying to be funny!
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« Reply #76 on: July 01, 2006, 11:32:04 PM »

GiC...if you were to qualify what you said in the "why can't they just become catholic" quote with what you said in the post following it, you'd ruffle a lot fewer feathers.

Something I know you're not wont to do, I'm just saying.  ÃƒÆ’‚ Wink

Seriously, though, I actually agree with what you're saying, now that I know the reasons behind the horrible-sounding one-liner you started off with that I quoted above.ÂÂ  Taken by itself, that one-liner can cause all sorts of problems, but when clarified, it makes all kinds of sense.

You're right, I'm a sick man who needs help...not that I'll get help, but I probably do need it Wink

My approach to discussion, especially within the context of debate forums, is derived from my studies in Military Science. I just love having a strong posistion, but putting out a straw-man argument at first, then just watch everyone jump on it and slam it into the ground, feeling pretty good about their victory, then I bring the brunt of my debate to bear on their unsuspecting flanks, hopefully catching them off guard, undermining their rhetorical dignity, and routing the enemy...emmm, I mean presenting my point to a fellow scholar.

Or another favourite it to put my weaker arguments out first, arguments that, when combined with some rhetorical skill and redundancy, are just strong enough to draw the opposing arguments out, and when the opponent has thrown everything they have at you, possibly even gaining a slight upper hand in the debate, that is to say when the enemy has committed his reserves against your advanced guard, you send in the the Old Guard to crush the enemy and sieze the Austerlitzian Victory that is rightfully yours...emmm, I mean you demonstrate the value of your posistion by presenting your stronger arguments.

As I said, I'm a sick man. Grin
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« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2006, 11:33:04 PM »

I just thought he was trying to be funny!

As long as you keep that perspective with most my posts and dont take me too seriously, you may never like me, but you probably wont come to hate me too badly. Wink
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« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2006, 11:34:47 PM »

you are sick in a good way-  Cheesy
I guess I won't ever argue with you.
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« Reply #79 on: July 02, 2006, 02:20:48 AM »

GreekisChristian,
Thank you very much for your clarification. Yes, that is a very reasonable explanation. Thank you.

I am sorry, that I suspected the worst variant.

From my own experience, I witnessed a behavior of some priests in Halychyna, a part of Western Ukraine in late 1989-1990. They converted from Orthodoxy to Eastern Rite Catholicism due to the potential assignments to richer parishes. Returnees to the previously prohibited Eastern Rite Catholicism are a separate story. I am not including them in this category. One of those meal-seekers, Olexandr Zhovnirovich got defrocked by Catholics in USA, but then ended up in New Jersey on the Chancellor-level position of KP in this country.

I'm a sick man
No, no, no. Come on!
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« Reply #80 on: July 03, 2006, 07:59:51 PM »

One of those meal-seekers, Olexandr Zhovnirovich got defrocked by Catholics in USA, but then ended up in New Jersey on the Chancellor-level position of KP in this country.


What is the Chancellor-level position of KP in this country?
Sorry- I don't know if you are talking about a RC thing here or an Orthodox thing here...
It is sick how the RCC switches "bad guys" all over the place.
Another reason I have no trust in the RCC.
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« Reply #81 on: July 04, 2006, 02:46:57 PM »

[quote author=Αριστοκλής link=topic=9306.msg126103#msg126103 date=1151604208]
A couple of days ago on a forum not-to-be-named quoting another not-to-be-named forum that this new 'bishop' has been uttering things about a transgender Jesus. Please say it ain't so. Perhaps our beloved Keble or Ebor might debunk this, please?
[/quote]

From what I have read it was not a "transgendered" Jesus but a very poor attempt at using a simile as well as ideas from Julian of Norwich and other quite orthodox (please note small "o") writers.   Please recall that in the Bible are such ideas as gathering people like a hen gathers her chicks.

This is causing upheaval in many places and much hyperbole. Things are going to happen over this

Ebor
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« Reply #82 on: July 04, 2006, 02:50:34 PM »

That's a good point GiC brings up. It reminds me of when in the Cadfael books he was asked why someone should become a monk. The answer was to the effect that one shouldn't if he was running from something, only if he was running toward something.

This idea has been brought up a number of times in my years of on-line discussions.  There are some Anglicans or others to go to RC or EO because they are leaving where they were which is indeed different from going *to* somewhere else.

Ebor
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« Reply #83 on: July 04, 2006, 02:52:21 PM »

Please no!!!

Have them go to Willow Creek!

They have more in common Wink

I beg your pardon, but what is your experience with any Anglicans or with "Willow Creek" that you would say this?  Or are you stereotyping Anglicans without much fact?

With respect

Ebor
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« Reply #84 on: July 04, 2006, 03:41:46 PM »

From what I have read it was not a "transgendered" Jesus but a very poor attempt at using a simile as well as ideas from Julian of Norwich and other quite orthodox (please note small "o") writers.   Please recall that in the Bible are such ideas as gathering people like a hen gathers her chicks.

This is causing upheaval in many places and much hyperbole. Things are going to happen over this

Ebor

OK, I see, I think...and then things seem worse again::

COLUMBUS, OH: Bishop Katherine celebrates transgender Jesus

By Hans Zeiger
VirtueOnline Correspondent
www.virtueonline.org

COLUMBUS, OHIO (6/21/06)-While addressing a morning Eucharist at the 75th
General Convention of the Episcopal Church, Presiding Bishop-elect Katherine
Jefferts Schori declared, "Our mother Jesus gives birth to a new creation.
And you and I are His children."

With Jefferts Schori as the leader-to-be of the Episcopal Chuch, it seems
that the church will move beyond gender-inclusive language to
transgender-inclusive language.

Yesterday however, the Episcopal Church's House of Bishops refused to even
consider a resolution that would affirm the exclusive Lordship of Jesus
Christ as "the only name by which any person may be saved." The Rev. Canon
Eugene McDowell of the Diocese of North Carolina explained, "This type of
language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were
executed. It was called the Holocaust."
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« Reply #85 on: July 04, 2006, 06:41:09 PM »

Last week, I read on some conservative blog (I have no idea what name is), that Jefferts Schori's mother was a convert to Orthodoxy (Antiochian, I believe), and that when she died, her daughter would not permit an Orthodox funeral. 
Since the Orthodox world in the US can be small, has anyone else ever heard this?  Does anyone know if it's true?  I'm not saying it *is* true, but very disturbing if it is.
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« Reply #86 on: July 06, 2006, 09:58:50 AM »

In the article quoted, she is again attempting to use (to my reading badly) a metaphor of how through the Crucifixion the New Life in Christ began.  (Oh, for an Editor and some courses in How to Write.)  I do not think that she really believes that Jesus was somehow physically female.  She's not communicating well though. 

Ebor
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« Reply #87 on: July 06, 2006, 10:03:36 AM »

Last week, I read on some conservative blog (I have no idea what name is), that Jefferts Schori's mother was a convert to Orthodoxy (Antiochian, I believe), and that when she died, her daughter would not permit an Orthodox funeral.ÂÂ  
Since the Orthodox world in the US can be small, has anyone else ever heard this?ÂÂ  Does anyone know if it's true?ÂÂ  I'm not saying it *is* true, but very disturbing if it is.

I saw this in a comment on David Virtue's site and it was also posted on another forum.  At this stage it is an unfounded or undocumented rumour.  From what I have read the mother was ill/disabled for the last years of her life.  It was reported in the comment that the mother did convert to EO prior to her illness and that she did not hold to women clerics.  However, what the mother and daughter spoke of in the last years and months is unknown to many I would suspect. 

Ebor
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« Reply #88 on: July 06, 2006, 10:08:07 AM »

[quote author=Αριστοκλής link=topic=9306.msg126690#msg126690 date=1152042106]
Yesterday however, the Episcopal Church's House of Bishops refused to even
consider a resolution that would affirm the exclusive Lordship of Jesus
Christ as "the only name by which any person may be saved." The Rev. Canon
Eugene McDowell of the Diocese of North Carolina explained, "This type of
language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were
executed. It was called the Holocaust."  [/quote]

At least in my understanding, every time a stupid comment like this is made, comparing something trivial to the Holocaust, it cheapens the Holocaust.  I mean really, what are these guys smoking?  "Oh yes, speaking of Jesus Christ as the only vehicle of salvation is like what the Nazis were saying to the Jews in WWII: your race is inferior, we will exterminate you."

{extreme sarcasm} Why don't they give babies IQ tests before allowing them to be born? {/extreme sarcasm}
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« Reply #89 on: July 06, 2006, 10:17:18 AM »

I hope that you understand that the remarks of one person are just that in interviews, his/her ideas.  I was not privy to the actual wording of that resolution nor of any of the debate.  But it's always the "wowser" quotes that end up in the papers.  Wierd things and people in debate and distress make more "news"  Undecided

Ebor
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