OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 16, 2014, 01:35:46 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Romanian Divine Liturgy  (Read 3674 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
zebu
Mot à ta mère!
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 338

aimovoroi tourkoi!


« on: October 17, 2006, 01:59:06 AM »

I am learning Romanian, and I would really like to see the text of the Divine Liturgy in Romanian.  I have found recordings, but no texts.  Does anyone know where I can find the text of the Divine Liturgy in Romanian online?
Logged

Жизнь прожить не поле перейти
CRCulver
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Finland and Romanian Orthodox Church
Posts: 1,159


St Stephen of Perm, missionary to speakers of Komi


WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2006, 02:05:02 AM »

Here you go.

The language of the Romanian translation is quite archaic, and contains many Slavisms that were eradicated from the language during the 19th-century reforms. I'd advise against using any of what you see within on the street.
Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2006, 03:35:52 AM »

Here you go.

The language of the Romanian translation is quite archaic, and contains many Slavisms that were eradicated from the language during the 19th-century reforms. I'd advise against using any of what you see within on the street.

It's not that bad. The 'modern' version done by the Metropolitanate of Moldova is almost identical (main differences being the use of 'pe' rather than the old 'pre' and 'slava' rather than 'marire'). To speak in liturgical Romanian would certainly make you sound odd (less so in the north east, though, where the dialect is more old fashioned) but it's nowhere near as far removed from modern Romanian as KJV language is from modern English. I'd also have to point out that many of the Slavisms were not eradicated, they've just always been more prevalent in the religious heartland of Moldova and Bucovina than elsewhere. Standard Romanian may have lost them, but I can assure you that they are alive and well in certain regional dialects/accents. In fact, there are an awful lot of Slavic words used in the Romanian of Bucovina and being unfamiliar with them is likely to make your attempt to communicate in rural areas less than successful.

James
(Ţăran englezesc, for those of you who understand Romanian, is how my wife sometimes refers to me. My Romanian is decidedly Moldovan in both accent and vocabulary as a result of the people I learned it from).
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
CRCulver
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Finland and Romanian Orthodox Church
Posts: 1,159


St Stephen of Perm, missionary to speakers of Komi


WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2006, 10:33:58 AM »

When I first moved to Cluj, most of my contact with Romanian was at church, since outside I was mainly speaking Hungarian. When I made Romanian friends, and tried to speak with them using the vocabulary I had become accustomed to, I sounded really strange and got quite a bit of laughter. It took me a long time to unlearn what I had assumed the language was like and speak colloquial Romanian. That's why I warned the OP to keep in mind that the liturgical language is not a good source of vocab for beginners.

With KJV English, a lot of it entered standard English. "Through a glass darkly", "skin of his teeth", etc. With liturgical Romanian, a large gulf between it and the standard language is felt.
Logged
augustin717
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,634



« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2006, 01:32:39 PM »

Quote
Standard Romanian may have lost them, but I can assure you that they are alive and well in certain regional dialects/accents. In fact, there are an awful lot of Slavic words used in the Romanian of Bucovina and being unfamiliar with them is likely to make your attempt to communicate in rural areas less than successful.
You are quite right about it.
Peasant varieties of Romanian are much closer to liturgical Romanian than what passes for "Colloquial Romanian" , especially in those books aimed at non native speakers of Romanian.
We still use, in every day speech, expressions like:"Doamne milui-ne" (Lord have mercy upon us), "Slava Domnului" etc.
Logged
FrChris
The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
Site Supporter
Taxiarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 7,252


Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!


« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2006, 03:42:20 PM »

Is there an online pronunciation guide for the Romanian? Maybe a recording of a Liturgy?

I serve an OCF chapter that has a large number of Romanians. I'd think they'd really enjoy hearing the priest give a petition or two, or even a prayer, in Romanian, to help join the other languages we give to God there!

Thanks!

+Fr. Chris
Logged

"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus
augustin717
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,634



« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2006, 05:09:39 PM »

Here you have a link to several fragments of the Liturgy : the Trisagion, The Cathechumen's litany, the Cherubic Hymn, the dialogue between the priest and the chanters, at the beginning of the Eucharistic Canon, Sanctus, the words of the Institution, the Axion and, of course some litanies.
This is a live record, without any artistic aims.
http://www.ortodoxmedia.com/inregistrare/165/Sfanta-Liturghie-fragmente-
And there is another record of the Great Thursday's Liturgy, which is complete.
    http://www.ortodoxmedia.com/inregistrare/248/Sf-Liturghie-Joia-Mare
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2006, 08:46:15 PM »

Quote
Is there an online pronunciation guide for the Romanian? Maybe a recording of a Liturgy?

Fr. Chris,
Your best bet is to ask one of the Romanians you deal with to teach you the î/â sound.  That is the only sound that we really don't have in English. 
Logged
zebu
Mot à ta mère!
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 338

aimovoroi tourkoi!


« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2006, 09:10:24 PM »

Here are some recordings that are actually labeled: http://biserica.org/ViataCrestina/Liturghie/Muzicescu/index.html

But it would be a lot easier to just ask them how to say the words, I am sure they would be happy to do so.
Logged

Жизнь прожить не поле перейти
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2006, 02:38:56 AM »

Is there an online pronunciation guide for the Romanian? Maybe a recording of a Liturgy?

I serve an OCF chapter that has a large number of Romanians. I'd think they'd really enjoy hearing the priest give a petition or two, or even a prayer, in Romanian, to help join the other languages we give to God there!

Thanks!

+Fr. Chris

If you were in Britain I'd say phone me and my wife and we'd happily help but you almost certainly wouldn't want to pay for an international call. Although, if you have Skype and are interested you could PM me and we could arrange something. There are actually quite a lot of recordings of Liturgical music on the internet but much of it is monastic and not only does that sound different from what Romanians are used to in their parish churches, but it tends to be sung incredibly slowly and, as a result, it's difficult to hear the words.

As someone else said, the difficult sound is the â/î sound. That is pronounced, roughly, like this. If you imagine that there is a continuum between ee and oo and slide along it until you're somewhere between but still with the back of the tongue raised and slightly further towards the back than front of the mouth. Not sure if that makes any sense at all. All the rest of the letters are pretty much just as you'd expect but vowels tend to be purer sounds than in some languages (not dissimilar to Italian) and r is rolled. ă is pronounced like the e in 'the' and ţ is 'ts' while ş is 'sh'. Of course, the difficult thing, even knowing the pronunciation (and Romanian, thankfully, is very phonetically spelt) would be figuring out where to put the stress in a word. That you cannot see easily from the written word and I still occasionally get it wrong when Father gives me an unfamiliar prayer to read before the Liturgy. Thankfully nobody laughs.

If I can be of any help to you at all, please let me know as I would be only too happy.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2006, 02:50:40 AM »

Here you have a link to several fragments of the Liturgy : the Trisagion, The Cathechumen's litany, the Cherubic Hymn, the dialogue between the priest and the chanters, at the beginning of the Eucharistic Canon, Sanctus, the words of the Institution, the Axion and, of course some litanies.
This is a live record, without any artistic aims.
http://www.ortodoxmedia.com/inregistrare/165/Sfanta-Liturghie-fragmente-
And there is another record of the Great Thursday's Liturgy, which is complete.
    http://www.ortodoxmedia.com/inregistrare/248/Sf-Liturghie-Joia-Mare

Do those fragments sound like what you're used to in your church? I only ask because I don't think I've ever heard that melody used for Sfinte Dumnezeule and I noticed that Doamne miluieste is clearly using a different tone from the one we use. I know there are several different ways of singing the same thing (though according to Father Romanian parish churches almost always use pretty much exclusively tones 5 and 8 which would limit the variation to a degree) but everyone at our parish appears familiar with the melodies we use and yet I have yet to come across a recording of them on the net. As a result I'm trying to learn much of our music solely by reading (and learning the notation, not all of our music is even in western notation!) but being able to listen would make things so much easier, especially with more difficult hymns like Heruvic and Fericirile.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
augustin717
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,634



« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2006, 10:55:05 PM »

Quote
Do those fragments sound like what you're used to in your church? I only ask because I don't think I've ever heard that melody used for Sfinte Dumnezeule and I noticed that Doamne miluieste is clearly using a different tone from the one we use
.
Not exactly. That's from Bucovina-Radauti.
We use quite a different tone-system (glasuri) in the Western part of Romania (Banat, Arad, Bihor etc) ; but, unfortunately, there are almost no recordings of that type of chant. I however own an audio-tape. If I only could put that on a cd and then turn it into mp3 ... But I don't know whether this is possible.
Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2006, 05:16:21 AM »

.
Not exactly. That's from Bucovina-Radauti.
We use quite a different tone-system (glasuri) in the Western part of Romania (Banat, Arad, Bihor etc) ; but, unfortunately, there are almost no recordings of that type of chant. I however own an audio-tape. If I only could put that on a cd and then turn it into mp3 ... But I don't know whether this is possible.

I know Radauti well. Never been to a Liturgy there, though. We don't use the same melodies as those samples here in the UK and I don't recall (though I must admit that it's a long time since I went to a Liturgy there) hearing them in Siret either. Our priest comes from down your way somewhere but most of the parishioners are from Moldova and almost all our materials come from Iasi, so I don't think we're using what you use either.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
Marcurios
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2006, 08:49:16 AM »

Is there an online pronunciation guide for the Romanian? Maybe a recording of a Liturgy?

I serve an OCF chapter that has a large number of Romanians. I'd think they'd really enjoy hearing the priest give a petition or two, or even a prayer, in Romanian, to help join the other languages we give to God there!

Thanks!

+Fr. Chris

I don't know of a satisfactory Romanian pronunciation guide online, but if you get ahold of Teach Yourself Romanian by Deletante and Alexandrescu, it has a pronunciation guide with native speakers to give you the correct pronunciation.  It is how I am learning.

La Revedere,
Adrian
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.08 seconds with 41 queries.