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Author Topic: Why does Orthodoxy need an Ecumenical Patriarch?  (Read 3915 times) Average Rating: 0
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JoeS
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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2006, 06:48:01 PM »

You have alot of very good rundowns on this, the problem as I see it though is that, if you do unite under the EP, then you're kind of giving up your ethnic identity. I don't really want to sound supportive of nationalism, but I do think that it is something that really needs to be handled delicately. I remember when the EP came to Chicago and held a 4 hour Liturgy at Navy Pier that was all in Greek. Well, for the rest of the jurisdictions, that doesn't do much. You can't expect non-greeks to unite under a patriarch who "gives the appearance" that he is Greek. Much the same you can't expect the Greeks to fall under a patriarch who "gives the appearance" that he is russian. Many of the problems encountered by orthodoxy are all because of nationalistic identities and an unwillingness to give up an ethnocentrism to join the nationality of Orthodoxy.

-Nick

Sometimes I think we Orthodox are our own worst enemy.  One example: we have a Greek program on Cable TV and as an non-Greek I would like to understand what is being shown and what is being said.  Obviously the program is intentianally exclusive and not inclusive in its make up. Sometimes I get the feeling that Nationalism is more important than the Orthodox faith.  It sometimes resembles a country club appearance to outsiders.  Exclusionary by virtue of the language.  There is no signs of Americanizing the culture here in America except the OCA and the Antiocheans.  I guess it will take generations of atrition to weed out these influences where Orthodoxy can start looking the same culturally. 

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« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2006, 07:02:57 PM »

you know...Its hard for me to hold back with all this nationalism talk because its true. I cant speak for Romania, Greece, Russia etc... But I can tell you a little about Serbia. Serbs will never think twice when asked what religion they are. Theyll say Orthodox Christian with emphasis and pride, but for all the wrong reasons. I mean, its hard to explain but if your not Orthodox, your not really Serbian, but people want to be proud nationalist Serbs so they declare themselves as proud Orthodox Christians. Being Orthodox for them is just another part of being Serbian like celebrating their Slavas. I remember once this serbian guy asked my romanian friend if he celebrates Christmas on Jan 7th, and obviously he said no, the serb then accused him of being a false Orthodox Christian!!! Angry Angry Angry You can even be an proud Orthodox Christian and not believe God exists. ahhhhhh ! My bloods beginning to boil I better stop now, and I havent even said half of what I was planning on saying. Roll Eyes
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"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic
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« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2006, 08:46:51 PM »

Both the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Churches claim to be THE Catholic Church. That's the important theological point.

Otherwise, capitals are really an incidental question of English style and usage, since the original documents of the early Church, in both Greek and Latin, used either (a) all capitals or (b) a cursive style with no capitals. Thus, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (whose final version didn't come about until Chalcedon) was probably written in ALL capitals with no punctuation marks or spaces between letters and words.

All printed translations of the Creed I have read (in Latin, French, German, Romanian and English) capitalize all of the adjectives. Thus, all of the versions of the Creed in my possession say: "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church." But, like I said, that's just a reflection of the modern editor's typographical predilections based on whatever standard of English usage he favors. One can decide to capitalize or not capitalize whatever one wants.

Thank you for enlightening me.  I guess I need to catch up on my Orthodox education.
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« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2006, 08:56:36 PM »

[quote author=Αριστοκλής link=topic=9206.msg125459#msg125459 date=1151096742]
teehee...ooooookay...
I'm guessing you've never read The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos(Ware) wherein he states that "Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East" is a canonical name for the Church.ÂÂ  Smiley
[/quote]

Like I said I'llhave  to catch up on some reading.  Thanks.
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« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2006, 10:22:28 PM »

you know...Its hard for me to hold back with all this nationalism talk because its true. I cant speak for Romania, Greece, Russia etc... But I can tell you a little about Serbia. Serbs will never think twice when asked what religion they are. Theyll say Orthodox Christian with emphasis and pride, but for all the wrong reasons. I mean, its hard to explain but if your not Orthodox, your not really Serbian, but people want to be proud nationalist Serbs so they declare themselves as proud Orthodox Christians. Being Orthodox for them is just another part of being Serbian like celebrating their Slavas. I remember once this serbian guy asked my romanian friend if he celebrates Christmas on Jan 7th, and obviously he said no, the serb then accused him of being a false Orthodox Christian!!! Angry Angry Angry You can even be an proud Orthodox Christian and not believe God exists. ahhhhhh ! My bloods beginning to boil I better stop now, and I havent even said half of what I was planning on saying. Roll Eyes

Okay, lets all calm down now. I didn't want to start a riot, simply answer a question. Umm, I could relate alot of stories from my former jurisdiction (ACROD) but since moving to the OCA, I've tried to leave that behind.

-Nick
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