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Tzimis
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« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2006, 10:29:54 PM »

Quote
Church remained opend. until 1996 flooded out by heave snow and rain. reopened 1997, church has at least 10 people.
as it stand now one family 2005 .church and house flood out twice three months apart.

I would venture to say that god is trying to tell you something?

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Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.
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« Reply #181 on: June 13, 2006, 03:18:30 AM »

I would venture to say that god is trying to tell you something?



with what you said. reminds me of that minister and his group going a round protesting at military funerals. say that God is punishing America because of Homosexuals. when Priest and ministers or lay people say God is trying to tell you some thing it show how much of a hypocrite they are. so you fit right in.

God doesn't do these things. all this flooding that happens around in this Country is the work of Satan himself.
 You have now refused to comply with moderatorial requests for information supporting your accusation concerning married bishops in the Church of Russia and concerning your plagiarized material.  You are hereby placed on post moderation until these have been provided.
~Veniamin
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Bishop Paul Andrew
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« Reply #182 on: June 13, 2006, 03:34:45 AM »

On one level-- and an important one-- I don't make much of distinction between you and Tyminski. But the point of interest is whether his report is true.


Keble quetion where what forum did you run in to tyminski. reason is that I have a few words to say to him
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The young fogey
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« Reply #183 on: June 13, 2006, 05:51:21 AM »

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=9194.msg124085#msg124085 date=1150152055]
Which demands, WHO IS ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN? 

If I wake up tomorrow as Nektarios, Patriarch of Phoenix and all other regions that are hot as hell right now, and receive converts into my new founded "Orthodox" Church - are they Orthodox, simply because they call themselves Orthodox? [/quote]

Exactly. As this board has tried to explain with considerable patience and charity to these two 'independent-church' clergy, being Orthodox means not only beliefs, practices and a claim to apostolic succession but being in the Orthodox communion.

Simply adopting all but the last — 'I don't care what anybody else says; I follow the councils, The Rudder, etc.' — and setting up shop on your own is like how Baptists operate, not Orthodox. In other words you're treating those Orthodox things exactly the way groups like the Baptists treat the Bible — outside the context of the church, which is utterly foreign to Orthodoxy.

Mother Anastasia's church is obviously the creation of Franciscan-influenced charismatic Roman Catholics who wanted to run after their own flights of fancy, whatever they are, rather than obey their church (St Francis was big on that last part BTW).

Like many Westerners they were ignorant of what Orthodoxy really is and had this vague notion that it's an umbrella term for being vaguely high-churchy but not under Rome.

The AOCC is more of the same.

As are the gays in America who opened an iconostasis-less church, put a Russian cross on the sign and dedicated the church to 'St' Mychal Judge. They claim 'valid lines of succession' too.

'It's a free country.' Logically you, MA, could decide to obey your old church and go back, since you want to have in church so much that is RC, or you could be honest, as you have set out to do since learning about Orthodoxy here, and simply be an independent church mixing practices — like having married nuns and lady deacons — and devotions that you like.

But now you know not to call yourselves Orthodox.
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aserb
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« Reply #184 on: June 13, 2006, 07:52:48 AM »

OK - The discussions have taken an interesting twist. I hope that  all you out there reading this that are new to Orthodoxy can see that not everyone who blogs on this site is truly Orthodox and that is why you and I need to be attending a church and in contact with a spiritual father, most likely your priest or a respected monastic or even a spiritual mother.
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« Reply #185 on: June 13, 2006, 09:15:13 AM »

My guess is neither independent-church cleric here knew much if anything about Orthodoxy and both were ordained by men who said they were Orthodox but of course weren't - maybe they thought they were (the blind leading the blind!).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 12:42:36 PM by The young fogey » Logged

Tzimis
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« Reply #186 on: June 13, 2006, 10:18:58 AM »

  The bottom line is what would keep one of your parishioners from opening his own church? Assuming he didn't like your practice of the orthodox/catholic faith. There is no end to it. The church would than take a different meaning and over the years would dissolve from true Christianity. The good book clearly states to look back to the past for our salvation. Sorry for being so hard on you but I have seen many fall victim to unsanctioned Churches. Especially people in a weak state of mind.
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Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.
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« Reply #187 on: June 13, 2006, 09:18:13 PM »

Keble quetion where what forum did you run in to tyminski. reason is that I have a few words to say to him

As I said-- I used Google.
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« Reply #188 on: July 11, 2006, 09:54:09 AM »

http://www.forministry.com/USNYAMOCCTNOCC

Mr. Pultorak--

It is simply unacceptable to post just a link without any description regarding the nature of the site, or even how it applies towards the discussion at hand.

Therefore, I shall copy and paste a page of this site so that others can see what your vagante group is attempting to do:


Quote
"Orthodox Catholic?" Are not these two expressions of the Body of Christ completely separate and even contradictory to one another? Sadly, this is a quite common misconception, although the basis for the question is quite relevent. To answer this, however, in a certain sense yes ... they are separate; divided mainly by liturgy and certain other practices. But they are far from contradictory to one another. That is where the misconception enters in. From the time the Church was given her structure and a set format for worship; she has considered herself both Orthodox in doctrine, faith and Praxis; and Catholic in her ministerial outreach to the People of God. Even among the Holy Fathers gathered at the first Seven Ecumenical Councils convened from the Fourth to the Eighth Centuries there was no differentiation; this evidenced in their Canons and Teachings. Subsequent to the Great Schism of 1054, when the Church of Rome and the Eastern and Oriental Communions separated; the core meaning of Orthodox remained unchanged, while the application of the term "catholic" came to be seen as much more exclusive to the Church of Rome. Previous to the Schism, there was but one Church with several Patriarchates. As a beginning then; and for the purposes of this reflection, the two terms ORTHODOX and CATHOLIC will be briefly discusses individually; giving them the originality of their definitions; then bringing them together in the wholeness of their expression of faith and worship. When one hears mention of ORTHODOX; the initial image coming to mind is that of the Eastern and Oriental branches of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. While this is indeed a true and valid picture; it has a much more braod meaning ... true faith, worship and praise. Within those ethnic Orthodox Communities, also, are retained and faithfully preserved a vast and sacred wealth of Tradition and Praxis dating from Apostolic times. These have contrivuted greatly to and have sanctified the wider experience of Church. The term CATHOLIC, again and in its most popular usage, is seen as referring to the Church of Rome; rather than in its fullest intended connotation as a universal and all encompassing belief and missionary endeavor. In this light it is well, also, to state once more that the terms ORTHODOX and CATHOLIC have been used, in their original context, by the Eastern and Oriental Churches through century upon century, even to this day. A question which may invariably arise, in reference to attempts at renewing and rejuventaing the Orthodox Catholic Church as brought particularly to the American spiritual consciousness, pertains to what possible relevence it might hold for these times. Would it not be far easier and far more beneficial to the Church to view them simply as beautiful but irrelevent practices? In answering the above it must be remembered that what has come before has a great and a lasting impact upon the present and the future. In terms of the Body of Christ it is of a necessity to embrace the past, impliment this in present reality, and integrate it into the future. The Traditions and Praxis spoken of are the very foundations on which the Church was built. They are what have survived by the grace of Almighty God, through era upon era; through persecution and reformation. To deny them; to cease their celebration and use, and see them only as archaic notions is also to deny the very beginnings of our Christian Church. The purpose of the Apostolic Church was and is to unite all persons, according to Jesus' Divine Commission, under the mantle of a universal and all encompassing Church. The inclusion of all Baptized and Chrismated persons into Christ and who seek him is the character of what is entailed in being truly catholic. Gifting them, by word and witnessm with a thoroughly uncompromised and unaltered Faith, Praxis and Tradition is what it means to be truly Orthodox.
 

To all readers---

No, I have not adjusted this quoted page in any way. The page was written without separate paragraphs with words apparently randomly capitalized.

Other pages have better punctuation, yet are full of the arguments that we have read from members of the AOCC: this vagante group, which is not in communion with either the West or the Orthodox Church, claims to offer a method of achieving unity among the East and West.

-chris
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 12:15:43 PM by chris » Logged
The young fogey
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« Reply #189 on: July 11, 2006, 11:30:59 AM »

Mr Pultorak, I thought you were never posting here again because this forum is a bunch of big meanies.

Nice website. But where is the list of parishes with addresses? Service times? Like I said elsewhere, I can give you respect if you are in fact a pastor doing real work with people, even if I don't agree with your church. You'd get that respect even if you canonised Walter Propheta and wrote your very own rite. But if you call yourself something you're not, like 'Eastern Orthodox' or 'Western Orthodox' (they're Antiochian or ROCOR, end of story), you forfeit that.

What brings you back here?

Not that I care much but is Mr Tyminski one of your priests? Last time I checked he seemed to be doing some free-lance gay thing and largely copying RC practices.
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