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Author Topic: Divinity of HIM Haile Selassie  (Read 24990 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2006, 03:31:20 PM »

However , the Rasta " movement" ( what a joke , there is no movement) is by and large racist. I stand by by posts.

I think that can be debated...

If I believe correctly, the rastafari belief did infact have a large portion of it dedicated to anti-white and black naitonalism...but today it has changed much, proof of this is Rastaman, who himself is white and the majority do not criticise him. Of course your going to have thsoe few idiots that are racist, but you have them in every faith, even orthodoxy.

Personally I know some rastafaris in my school, and theyre all black. I'm even really good with one of them. When he wore a Bob Marely shirt, I said to him jokingly "haha....your idol was infact an orthodox convert, attempting it throughout his whole life, trying to escape Rastafari!"  immediately I regretted what I said because I thought maybe I offended him but he actually laughed....

Anyways, I highly dont most of them are racist nowadays...
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« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2006, 06:18:09 PM »



Anyways, I highly dont most of them are racist nowadays...

 We are going to have to agree to disagree on that point.
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« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2006, 06:27:14 PM »

I don't think that's a fair call.

I'm not sure why a difference of opinion on a matter that is not essentially pertinent to the falsity of Rastafarianism as a faith has insitgated that reaction from you. Maybe i'm missing something.
   
  I spent 25 years in this so called "movement". I tend to get worked up over this issue .
Perhaps you are right, E.A.   I think " apologist " would be a better word.
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« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2006, 06:33:26 PM »

You spent 25 years in a false heretical religion that you consider to be racist??

I bet that was fun.
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« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2006, 06:47:03 PM »

You spent 25 years in a false heretical religion that you consider to be racist??

I bet that was fun.
God desires not the death of a sinner, but that he repent and be saved. And,I `m a slow learner.                 I would also like to point out that St.Paul spent many years persecuting Christians before the true faith was revealed to him. St.Moses was murder and a thief. St. Mary of Egypt was a prostitute.
 I am hardly unique in that regard . Glory to God that he revealed himself to me.
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« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2006, 11:00:04 PM »

MO the Ethio

I am sorry that i have touched a nerve with you.

Also I think my post was a little arrogant ...Sorry!

You are right about knowing more about rastas. But be certain of this...I have NO respect for the belief system called Rastafarianism. It is for me an awful concept that has mislead many people. It has also embarrassed the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church community. I was today asked "why Coptics believe in smoking bush"?

Of course the person who asked is not knowledgeable.

My point is most people are not knowledgeable and simple street information serve as 'school'. The man thought this because some Jamaicans he experienced claimed their religion is Coptic. These were actually rastas. But he checked no further and drew his final conclusions about Coptics from that alone.
 
I respect any person who has a real interest in trying to find God. That does mean I respect how they perform their quest. They must be lead to Christ and His true Church.
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« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2006, 11:21:48 PM »

MO the Ethio

I am sorry that i have touched a nerve with you.

Also I think my post was a little arrogant ...Sorry!

You are right about knowing more about rastas. But be certain of this...I have NO respect for the belief system called Rastafarianism. It is for me an awful concept that has mislead many people. It has also embarrassed the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church community. I was today asked "why Coptics believe in smoking bush"?

Of course the person who asked is not knowledgeable.

My point is most people are not knowledgeable and simple street information serve as 'school'. The man thought this because some Jamaicans he experienced claimed their religion is Coptic. These were actually rastas. But he checked no further and drew his final conclusions about Coptics from that alone.
 
I respect any person who has a real interest in trying to find God. That does mean I respect how they perform their quest. They must be lead to Christ and His true Church.
My Brother in Christ :
  You have no need to apologize. It is I who need to ask your forgiveness for my uncivil and somewhat vicious responce to your post.
  For the record , I found your first post very insightful. You have a much better grasp on the theological end of this debate than I.
                   Moses      +++
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« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2006, 05:58:49 PM »

This is further evidence of the cluelessness of the Rasta religion:

To:     Jah Jah Love
Date:   
Jul 4, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject:   RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm sorry...   
Body:   Rastafarianism began as a black empowerment movement, to bring all black people back to Africa and condemn the white race as Babylon.
Did you know that Haile Selassie himself denied being the Messiah? In fact, he was a devout member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. He definitely would not have approved of the recreational use of drugs, not even marijuana.

Listen to Emperor Haile Selassie denial of deity in an interview in Canada in 1967 aboard the royal train.
http://www.jamaicans.com/culture/rasta/interview_popup.htm

If you knew what you really believed in, you wouldn't believe it.

Peace.




----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Jah Jah Love
Date: Jul 4, 2006 11:44 AM

well, according to H.I.M. Haile Selassie I..." Until man is judged no different than the color of his eyes, there will be war, I say, WAR!" Rastafari isn't ALL about color...I believe that my WHITE ancestors did wrong to the African people and I believe that "Babylon" (western civilization) ie the corporate world, and pretty much everything AmeriKKKans stand for need be brought down, then we shall rebuild Zion (the motherland) and go home to be with Jah. I know many many elders in the Rastafari church who agree, but then again some disagree. As long as man walks the earth, there will be disagreement.Whether white, black, yellow, red, anything, Rastafari is a belief same as Christianity, Catholicism, Mormanism, anything. And as for the Ganja, its a sacrament to Jah. The "wisdom weed" is used in times of meditation and deep thought, prayer and worship. And, I DO know the negative side effects of marijuana. Now did you know that there are SAFE ways to consume cannabis? Take the vaporizer for instance. Nothing but pure Deltatetrahydracannabinol6. No carcinogens, just pure enlightenment. Hey, even the DEA agrees. Please look at both sides of the picture...I understand you were "addicted" to marijuana, (i use "" because I dont feel its addictive", so Im no one to say how YOU feel inside, but it was the one HERB that pulled me from meth, heroin, cocaine, alcohol, all things that need to remain illegal. What about hemp? Have you researched anything on hemp? Over 25,000 uses. From building material to gas, to food to clothes. I appreciate your opinion and positive feedback, I will pray that you may see BOTH sides of the equasion. Also, marijuana is NOT considered a drug. It is a controlled substance. It is not manufactured by man from its original state like meth or cocaine or alcohol, its grown fresh from the grown and picked then consumed. Same as lettuce, potatoes, celery, etc. Sing praises to H.I.M. on MOST HIGH. Bless.

www.compassionatecoalition.org
www.norml.org
www.safeaccessnow.org
www.benefitsofmarijuana.com
www.mpp.org
www.hempfest.org

Please visit these links with an open mind...


----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Messenjah
Date: Jul 4, 2006 10:30 AM

I have no idea who you are, but perhaps I need to tell you that there's no such thing as a white Rasta. It's a glaring contradiction. Furthermore, smoking herb is not a requirement of Rastafari, it is just considered sacred.
And lastly, have you heard of the negative consequences of marijuana use? As a former addict, it truly hurt my mind and body. Given that the body is a temple of JAH, I am not going to poison it again with illegal drugs.

Peace.




----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Jah Jah Love
Date: Jul 4, 2006 8:42 AM

well im sorry you feel that way, were you possibly not shown the benefits of cannabis? but as part of my belief as my religion, i cannot remove it from my page for its what i dearly believe in......



----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Messenjah
Date: Jul 3, 2006 11:47 PM

I won't be able to add you to my friends list until you remove the references to marijuana. As a former user, I can't tolerate its promotion.
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« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2006, 12:55:11 PM »

Matthew777,

Considering they brought back my other Rasta thread, I expect them to bring back this one as well.

The bredrin who you quoted no longer embraces the divinity of HIM Haile Selassie and no longer considers himself a Rasta.  Before you rejoice at such news, he has embraced Islam.

Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
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« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2006, 07:02:48 PM »

Greetings I, Fiqir Bandinet, Satta Massa Ganna,

I really wanted to leave this topic alone.ÂÂ  Seriously, I did.ÂÂ  This is an Orthodox forum, certainly don't want to be reasoning on Rastafarian beliefs.

Nevertheless, I feel that my cotinued prescence here requires that the issue be addressed.ÂÂ  If the thread dies so be it, but if it continues then I will address any questions, debates, points, etc. that are raised.

I also am willing to reason about this on MSN.ÂÂ  I definitely want more Orthodox Christians to talk to on there. CanuckRasta@hotmail.com

To start:

Rev. 5:5, Gen 49:9-10, Isaiah 9:6.

By tradition, Ethiopian rulers, take the title of "King of Kings, Lord of lords, Conquering Lion of the tribe of Judah" as the titles of the throne.ÂÂ  these are the same titles given to the returned Messiah.ÂÂ  The English translation of the name Haile Selassie is Power/Might of the Trinity.

The EOTC has acknowledged that the monarchy was established by Menelik, son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.

One Love
Ras Markos Johannis Binyam
Rastaman and Orthodox Seeker

P.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement

rastaman,

Have you ever read the Gospels (Good News), the biographies of Our Lord Jesus Christ ?  Try them.  If you don't want to read all (about 135 pages) read the Gospel of St. John (about 35 pages).

Yeshua (Hebrew for "God-Saviour") Messiah (Hebrew for "the Anointed One") is Love become man, Love as man.  God is Love, Love is God. Love is Someone; Love is One Who is 3 (Trinity=Tri-unos=3 in 1) and the Perfect Love of the Eternal Act of Love among His 3 Persons.

May Our Lord Jesus Christ, our Beloved Joy bless you,
Steve
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« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2006, 07:45:30 PM »

Matthew777,

Considering they brought back my other Rasta thread, I expect them to bring back this one as well.

The bredrin who you quoted no longer embraces the divinity of HIM Haile Selassie and no longer considers himself a Rasta.ÂÂ  Before you rejoice at such news, he has embraced Islam.

Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam

Rastaman-

I did not get a chance to see all these posts.
Apparently a response I gave you on another thread is not showing up.
I think you need to stop letting people pick on you here and get haughty with you.
You deserve respect and I am put off with some posters here who are out of control with their higher than thou attitudes.
I will continue to hope and pray you see that their intention is to help you in spite of the 'tude going on here.
Love,
Dismus
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« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2006, 01:59:02 AM »

Hey Dismus, Blessed be,

You are sure getting around today.  Thanks for the support, I appreciate it.  In my reply in the other thread, I think in hindsight, I might have come across as overly angry or a similar emotion towards you.  Not how I meant it. I merely wished to show that there are still major differences between my beliefs and those that would be conducive to my participation in an Orthodox Church.  My statement of beliefs that follows might help.

I do not feel that the reponses here at any time were unwarranted/uncalled for/unexpected.  Fact is this is an Orthodox Christian community, and the members here have all the right in the world to combat anathematized beliefs such as mine.

Fiqir Bandinet,
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
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« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2006, 02:12:04 AM »

My Personal Statement of Belief

This is a modified version of a document that was presented by the Twelve Tribes of Israel (a Rastafarian House).ÂÂ  I changed the pronouns etc and other grammar to reflect first person singular and eliminated statements that reflected certain beliefs of that Rasta organization which I do not agree with.

 1.ÂÂ  I accept the Holy Bible, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22, as the inspired Word of The Most High, The Father of the Universe.
 2.ÂÂ  I accept that God is a Spirit, the Creative Word, and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, for the Father seeketh such to Worship Him. (John 4:23-24)
 3.ÂÂ  I accept that man’s body is the Temple of the living God, and therefore is His Chief instrument. (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19)
 4.ÂÂ  I accept and proclaim with all my heart, soul, mind and strength that Jesus, who trod the earth 2000 years ago, is The Messiah, The Christ, The only begotten Son of The Father and The Saviour and Redeemer of Mankind.ÂÂ  That He lived the perfect life and paid for my redemption from the curse of the Law, by His innocent blood (Hebrew 9:11-15, 22) And because no sin was found in Him, in that He was obedient to the Father even unto death, it was impossible for Death, the curse of the Law, to have dominion over Him. He therefore died for my sins and rose for my justification, laying down mortality and putting on immortality. And as such, being the first fruits of them that slept (Romans 5:19) and restored to the original form that Adam was created, (i.e. immortal) it is Him Jesus who has fulfilled the seed that would come (Genesis 3:15) to bruise the head of the serpent, the devil, and will restore mankind to immortality and the Creation to perfection, in the Age to come.ÂÂ  When He returns to overthrow the existing social, political, economic, and religious disorder and establish God’s Righteous Kingdom here on the earth (Daniel 2:44, Isaiah 54:21-2). He will reign from the throne of David, from a New Jerusalem, and the resurrected Saints and the living Faithful will reign with Him as Kings and Priests upon the earth (Rev 5:10).
 5.ÂÂ  I accept that Until then, as the Scripture teaches, The Kingdom of God will remain in the hands of the Sons of David, (2nd Chronicles 13:5,8) to whom it was given by an everlasting Covenant, (Davidic Covenant, 2nd Samuel 7) as long as the Sun and Moon endure. This throne of God, established in the Royal House of David and King Solomon (2nd Chronicles 9:8 ) was transmitted to the Ethiopian Royal House via the Queen of Sheba who carried the Royal Seed from Solomon to Ethiopia.
 6.ÂÂ  The Kings of Ethiopia, descended from King David and King Solomon through Menelek I are therefore of Divine origin, meaning that their throne was established by The Eternal Himself, when the children of Israel asked for a King, mainly because with their ‘fleshy’ minds they could not understand that the Eternal was their King. (1 Samuel 8:1-9)(Psalms 10:16)(1 Tim 1:17)
 7.ÂÂ  I as a Rastafarian will never relinquish the Divinity of His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Haile Selassie I. By this I mean that according to the anointing He has received, according to the Royal tradition, (1 Samuel 16:12-13) the Spirit of The Most High rests upon Him and His Words are in His mouth and speaks by His tongue. (2nd Samuel 23:2-3)ÂÂ  I accept His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I to be the 225th restorer of the Solomonic Dynasty. Therefore according to the Messianic Anointing He has received, His Imperial Majesty represents the Father and His Christ. I therefore hold that The Eternal Word, Manifested in Our Lord (Master) Jesus the Christ (Anointed) has been revealed to I as a Rastafarian brethren through the personality of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I.
 8.ÂÂ  As I accept that God is a Spirit, in the physical absence of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, the throne as promised will continue in the hands of the sons of David UNTIL Shiloh comes. Let it be noted that as His Imperial Majesty has appointed Crown Prince Zere Yacob Asfa Wossen Haile Selassie, (14th April 1974) his successor to the throne of David, I accept that the throne is now in his hands. And this Monarchy, wherever residing, will continue as a Light to the fact that the House of David will hold, preserve, and be custodians of this throne in the earth until Shiloh, comes.
 9.ÂÂ  I accept that the Sceptre, that is, the Divine Authority to rule in God’s stead or Custodianship of God’s throne will not leave the House of Judah, Until Shiloh comes (Genesis 49:10). Kings from this House have come and have gone, but the one whose right it is (Shiloh) will be seated upon the throne from everlasting to everlasting, not temporarily or over a temporary dispensable Kingdom (St. Luke 1:31-32). This means that He that is to come will be the immortal King ruling eternally. He is the Lamb that was slain, (Rev 5:9—10) 2000 years ago in Jerusalem, and rose from the grave and He whom the Heavens must retain, (Acts 3:20-21) UNTIL the restoration of all things spoken of by the Prophets since the world began (Acts 3:25-26). It is this same Jesus (Hebrew 13:8, Acts1:11) the Lamb of God that was found worthy and is now seated at the right hand of the Father Until He Has put all enemies under His feet. It is He Jesus, the non-cohabited body of Christ who will inaugurate the Kingdom of God in the Age to come, the Millennium, the reign of Christ for a thousand years. His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I and the Royal House is the cohabited body of Christ who holds the throne until Shiloh comes.
10.ÂÂ  I believe that what has been preached in the name of Christ and in the name of Christianity by most Churches, has too often been a doctrine about Jesus but not what Jesus taught (Galatians 1:6-8). Jesus was sent by His Father to proclaim or herald the Good News about the coming Kingdom of God to earth and that I was to repent and believe in this message for the Kingdom was at hand or near. (Luke 4:43, Mark 1:14-15). When I accept this Word, this seed, this message, I conceive and a new life, a new birth occurs in me, (born again) and ‘quickens’ me towards immortality in the Age to come. It is in understanding and belief upon the Words that Jesus spoke that gives life, the seed of immortality. (Luke 8:11-12). And I must also accept that it is His blood that paid the ransom to open the gates of immortality once again as it was in the beginning before the fall of Man. So shall it be in the end, when all the Saints that sleep will be awakened, or resurrected with an immortal glorious body and the creation restored to its glorious state, as it was in the beginning (Philippians 3:20-21) (Acts 24:14-15, & 26:28-23)
11.ÂÂ  Those who embrace this Hope, this Faith that the Twelve Tribes of Israel waited earnestly for day and night, have the Faith of Abraham and all the prophets of God. Those are therefore the seed of Abraham and therefore inheritors of the promises made to Abraham.ÂÂ  This is the Promise of a land - grant, not in the sky but right here on earth where the Meek shall inherit the land or earth. It is promised to the Faithful, IRRESPECTIVE OF RACE, NATIONALITY, OR GENDER. These are the Israel of God, the New Israel. To them will be given the disputed land when Messiah returns. Those who have suffered for this faith in Messiah (Christ), in the regeneration, they will be given twelve thrones, Judging (administering) the 12 tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:29-30)
12.ÂÂ  Until then I believe that Ethiopia is my place of refuge, as Jacob took refuge in the tents of Ham.ÂÂ  I accept the legitimate right of all African descendants to Repatriate to the land of my forefathers, the Holy Land.
13.ÂÂ  I accept that as a follower of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I, (whose pre-coronation name was Ras Tafari) I MUST study and obey His teachings and follow his example and not the traditions, sayings of anyone which are contrary to his words or the Holy Bible. His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, Himself a follower of Jesus, and holding the title of Defender of the Faith and leader of the most ancient Christian Nation on earth, Ethiopia, has commanded us to: “…arise with the spiritual zeal and earnestness which characterized the Apostles and early Christians and let us lead our brothers and sisters to Our Saviour Jesus, Who only give life in its fullest sense”. If I claim to love Him I should follow His example and Teachings.

Glory be to the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 02:26:06 AM by Rastaman » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2006, 01:44:45 PM »

Concerning the Old covenant with Israel:

Zacharias 11:10 - And I will take my beautiful staff, and cast it away, that I may break my covenant which I made with all the people. 11 And it shall be broken in that day; and the Chananites, the sheep that are kept for me, shall know that it is the word of the Lord. 12 And I will say to them, If it be good in your eyes, give me my price, or refuse it. And they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the Lord said to me, Drop them into the furnace, and I will see if it is good metal, as I was proved for their sakes. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them into the furnace in the house of the Lord.

14 And I cast away my second rod, even Line, that I might break the possession between Juda and Israel. 15 And the Lord said to me, Take yet to thee shepherd’s implements belonging to an unskillful shepherd. 16 For, behold, I will raise up a shepherd against the land: he shall not visit that which is perishing, and he shall not seek that which is scattered, and he shall not heal that which is bruised, nor guide that which is whole: but he shall devour the flesh of the choice ones, and shall dislocate the joints of their necks.

The re-established post Babylon Kingdom of Israel made a big mistake rejecting Christ! 

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« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2006, 10:08:58 PM »

Rastaman, 

I havn't read ALL of the posts prior to this one (which i've missed since being gone), but i'd really like to know how the Queen of Sheba has the authority to transmit the power of the Lord God through HERSELF, into ANOTHER person (or bloodline)

Quote
This throne of God, established in the Royal House of David and King Solomon (2nd Chronicles 9:8 ) was transmitted to the Ethiopian Royal House via the Queen of Sheba who carried the Royal Seed from Solomon to Ethiopia.

How did she carry the Royal Seed?  Does that mean a child?  Who's child?  etc.  Some clarification on that would be great. 

Quote
7.  I as a Rastafarian will never relinquish the Divinity of His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Haile Selassie I. By this I mean that according to the anointing He has received, according to the Royal tradition, (1 Samuel 16:12-13) the Spirit of The Most High rests upon Him and His Words are in His mouth and speaks by His tongue. (2nd Samuel 23:2-3)  I accept His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I to be the 225th restorer of the Solomonic Dynasty. Therefore according to the Messianic Anointing He has received, His Imperial Majesty represents the Father and His Christ. I therefore hold that The Eternal Word, Manifested in Our Lord (Master) Jesus the Christ (Anointed) has been revealed to I as a Rastafarian brethren through the personality of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I.

So Christ the Word is revealed to you as a Rastafari through this "descendent" of Solomon?  How is THAT happenening? 

Quote
8.  As I accept that God is a Spirit, in the physical absence of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, the throne as promised will continue in the hands of the sons of David UNTIL Shiloh comes. Let it be noted that as His Imperial Majesty has appointed Crown Prince Zere Yacob Asfa Wossen Haile Selassie, (14th April 1974) his successor to the throne of David, I accept that the throne is now in his hands. And this Monarchy, wherever residing, will continue as a Light to the fact that the House of David will hold, preserve, and be custodians of this throne in the earth until Shiloh, comes.
 

So God the "Spirit" is only available at the absence of the physical presence of the Emperor??

Where is the Spirit when the Emperor IS around?  (which I assume he's around right now)

Quote
9.  I accept that the Sceptre, that is, the Divine Authority to rule in God’s stead or Custodianship of God’s throne will not leave the House of Judah, Until Shiloh comes (Genesis 49:10).

Um...to rule in God's stead?  Humans can do that??  Not the last time I checked my Bible...could be wrong though (depending on interpretation, etc. )

I'm not gona go into the rest of your statement until I get some of those more basic answers first.  If you prefer to not answer me just let me know.  Thanks! 
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« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2006, 12:42:57 AM »

Yes, Emperor Haile Selassie was a dedicated and loyal Orthodox Christian, a champion of the faith and an example to us. As others said here, may Lord bless his Orthodox soul. Also, may Jesus bless the loyal Orthodox soul of Bob Marley.

Mo the Ethio,
I really admire of your wisdom and courage to make a correct decision and to become an Orthodox Christian. God bless you!

I really appreciate all these great comments from many people here.

Actually, there is a sect in Indonesia, which believes in deity of another Orthodox Christian, a traveler and ethnographer of Ukrainian origin Mykola (Nicholas, Nikolay) Miklukho-Maklay. Similarly, he never preached any propaganda to worship him.
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« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2006, 02:13:07 AM »

serb,

Your reply is coming, I just need a few days to do a decent job.

To tide you over until then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebra_Negast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_covenant#Ethiopian_Orthodox_Church

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« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2006, 10:20:06 AM »

Rastaman,

Take your time.  I'd rather get real answers than you hurry just to say something.

Thank you for the articles, they were informative.  What were you trying to say with them?  Something specific?  Here's what I got from them, let me know if there was something else...

1.  There is a historical text explaining the history of the blood-line of the Ethiopian Emperors and their connection to the line of Solomon, through the Queen of Sheba. 

2.  The Ark of the Covenant is in the possession of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and therefore, the Emperor of Ethiopia because it would have been HIS blood-line which brought the Ark to that place.

Is this basically it?  I'd like to make sure, rather than assuming... 
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« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2006, 01:32:11 PM »

Blessed love,

Yes I, those were the two things I would hope you notice.

They relate to your first question with regards to the Royal Seed etc. and several of my points (5-9).

This is crucial, because the Kebra Nagast is not a Rastafarian text, it was not written by us, it comes from the Orthodox.  The Ethiopian Orthodox consider it a valid historical account and the Imperial Family also accepted it as truth.

So you take it and Scripture and the following becomes apparent (to I at least):

1.  Christ and Haile Selassie are both descended from King David
2.  Haile Selassie is the true King of Israel and the rightful ruler of Earth.
3.  As a devout Orthodox Christian, Haile Selassie represents a connection between the past, present, and future (ie. Ancient Israel, Orthodox Christianity, and the future 1000-year reign of Christ)
4.  Christ and Haile Selassie share the same lineage, they are both Kings of Israel, and they both represent true teachings.

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« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2006, 02:34:50 PM »

Rastaman-

Blessings and peace to you.

I am curious about Haile Selassie's mother. Can you tell me about her? Was she unique in some way? I mean this as a serious question and not as an offense to your beliefs at all.
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« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2006, 05:16:30 PM »

Blessed love,

Yes I, those were the two things I would hope you notice.

They relate to your first question with regards to the Royal Seed etc. and several of my points (5-9).

This is crucial, because the Kebra Nagast is not a Rastafarian text, it was not written by us, it comes from the Orthodox.ÂÂ  The Ethiopian Orthodox consider it a valid historical account and the Imperial Family also accepted it as truth.

So you take it and Scripture and the following becomes apparent (to I at least):

1.ÂÂ  Christ and Haile Selassie are both descended from King David
Quote
2.ÂÂ  Haile Selassie is the true King of Israel and the rightful ruler of Earth.
3.ÂÂ  As a devout Orthodox Christian, Haile Selassie represents a connection between the past, present, and future (ie. Ancient Israel, Orthodox Christianity, and the future 1000-year reign of Christ)
4.ÂÂ  Christ and Haile Selassie share the same lineage, they are both Kings of Israel, and they both represent true teachings.

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Rastaman,

I feel kind of bad that I keep asking you questions.  It seems like you're being asked lots of different things, at different times, by different people...

Anyway, i'm not the kind of person who beats around the bush, so here it is...

Quote
2.ÂÂ  Haile Selassie is the true King of Israel and the rightful ruler of Earth.

First of all, since when is the King of Israel the rightful ruler of the Earth?  Isn't that what Christ was trying to prove, that he wasn't an EARTHLY king but a HEAVENLY one? 

Secondly, just because Haile Selassie's lineage MAY be traced by 1 book, does not mean that we can just extrapalate that into him being all of these other things!  This is why I wanted you to consider my questions concerning your faith statements, that way we can look at this one part at a time. 

Quote
4.  Christ and Haile Selassie share the same lineage, they are both Kings of Israel, and they both represent true teachings

So because Haile Selassie shares the same lineage as Christ, this makes his teachings true?  What if I were to find someone else who ALSO shared that teaching?  Would their words be automatically true because of their lineage?  There is a certain flaw in this reasoning...

Anyway, so far, to me at least, there has been a lot of extrapalation and flimsy connections based on what I see so far as very little evidence, and i'm really trying to understand where all of these points are comming from and how you or your faith backs them up.  Please forgive me if I came accross angry at any point, this was not my intention. 
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« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2006, 05:35:23 PM »

Blessed Be,

In answer to your question Dismus, there is not much available on His mother.  Due to this lack of information, I have decided to go into more detail with regards to His childhood.

Note: HIM Haile Selassie was known before His coronation as Tafari Makonnen.  At various times in His life He held various titles. First Lij, then Dejazmatch, and finally Ras before assuming His baptismal name at His coronation (November 2, 1930).

Note 2:  Throughout my posts here at the forum I have always avoided unsubstantiated accounts with regards to the life of the Emperor.  His mysterious encounters with church officials, the correlation between periods of drought and famine being affiliated with events in His life, the conspiracy theories regarding Mussolini and the Roman Catholic Church, among others.  If any wish further details, they can always drop me a private message.

Lij Tafari was born July 23, 1892 to Ras Makonnen and the Lady Yeshimebet Ali. ÂÂ Ras Makonnen was a provincial governor, cousin of then Emperor Menelik II and sat on Menelik’s Imperial Council as foreign minister. ÂÂ Makonnen played a major role in the Battle of Adowa (1892), a significant clash in the first war between Italy and Ethiopia. ÂÂ Makonnen also traveled throughout Europe, and received many honours and citations, as well as being present at the coronation of the English King. ÂÂ Ras Makonnen died in 1906.

The Lady Yeshimebet Ali died soon after the birth of her only child.  He had been preceded by six miscarriages.  The Lady was a sharif (a descendant of Mohammed) and also had ties to former Emperors of the Solomonic Dynasty.  She was the second wife of Ras Makonnen.  He also had a son prior to Tafari, it is unknown if this son was legitimate, however the son did succeed his father as a provincial governor.

Throughout the reign of HIM Menelik II, Ras Makonnen and his son always seemed to find favour with the Emperor. ÂÂ In fact, the Emperor supported first Makonnen then Tafari as successor, over Lij Iyasu, Menelik’s grandson. ÂÂ However, the powers behind the throne did not accept such an arrangement. ÂÂ Both Makonnen and Tafari supported modernization whereas Lij Iyasu represented a more conservative approach. ÂÂ After Menelik suffered a major stroke, elements of the nobility engineered a plot to place Lij Iyasu on the throne.

Lij Iyasu was never anointed as the Crown Prince and heir.  Soon disturbing rumours emerged.  The Lij was opposed to Christianity, advocating Islam and even atheism as preferable to the Church.  He also had substance abuse problems.  In the end, Lij Iyasu was excommunicated from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, thus removing him as a possible successor to Menelik.

Subsequent events led to the coronation of Emperor Menelik’s daughter, Zauditu, as Empress of Ethiopia in 1916. ÂÂ Ras Tafari Makonnen, her cousin, was appointed regent. ÂÂ Her reign was, in the beginning dominated by civil war with Iyasu.

Throughout His regency, Tafari and Zauditu clashed considerably on matters of state.  He controlled the government and advocated reforms, where Zauditu had the Church supporting her philosophy of maintaining Ethiopian tradition.

An attempt in 1928 to overthrow Tafari by the conservative element failed, although the attempts continued for two years. ÂÂ In 1930, Tafari defeated the husband of the Empress in battle. ÂÂ The Empress died two days later, allowing Ras Tafari Makonnen to be crowned on November 2, 1930 in St. George’s Cathedral, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

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« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2006, 05:57:40 PM »

I don't mean to read into that too much but..  Is it weird that the most seemingly negative and conspiratorial facts about Haile Selassie were found in a post written by a rasta?
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« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2006, 07:49:22 PM »

Peace and blessings to you Rastaman.

Thank you for your post. Interesting stuff. I am sure it is a bit much for me to take in at once, but something caught my eye as I scanned it twice..

If you don't mind me asking yet another question - I really am curious about the decendant of the Muhhamed prophet of Islam. Is Rasta simmilar to Islam in any way?
Are you aware of any ties in religion that have existed? If so do you know what they are? Your posts kind of give me much more to think about and ponder.

Thank you, May you have a good day!
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« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2006, 09:35:23 PM »

If - for the sake of edification - we grant that Haile Selassie was actually descended from an Israelite king I don't see what difference that would make given the details of the New Covenant (of which it is written in Jer 31:31 is NOT like the Old one).ÂÂ  

Consider this:

Jhn 1:11  ÃƒÆ’‚ He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12  ÃƒÆ’‚ But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13  ÃƒÆ’‚ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

These verses show a shift away from Israelite (the builders) exclusivity:

Mat 21:42  ÃƒÆ’‚ Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner:
this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43  ÃƒÆ’‚ Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof


Mk. 3:33-35 "Who is My mother or My brothers?" and having looked around on those sitting around Him in
a circle, He said, "Behold, My mother and My brothers! For whosoever does the will of God,
this one is My brother, and My sister, and My mother."


Wouldn't verses such as the ones above (and many more) make the Israelite connection - if it were true at all - moot to begin with?

 
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« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2006, 05:50:13 AM »

Rastaman,

How are you doing? I was wandering if you were planning to respond to that rather lengthy response regarding the general subject of this thread that I posted for you quite some time ago: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=9184.msg123776#msg123776

I don't mean to pressure you into feeling obligated to respond or anything, I'm just curious to know whether you actually gave it some thought, and if so, if you would be willing to translate those thoughts into text.
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« Reply #71 on: August 26, 2006, 11:37:06 AM »

EkhristosAnesti,

In response to your post (Reply 19):

 1.  Reconciliation requires that an overstanding (understanding) be reached between two supposedly divergent concepts.  By this you mean to say that it is impossible to mix the two faiths into one.  Although it may be nice for the Orthodox to say Rasta beliefs are anathematized, that we are heretics, that we are blasphemers…it is not that simple.  We use Amharic in worship and as an everyday language not to mention the existing translation of the HSV Amharic (Haile Selassie Version Amharic) Bible into Jamaican Patois.  Rastas give their children Ethiopian names and celebrate Ethiopian holidays.  We venerate Ethiopian saints and use Ethiopian titles to refer to one another.  When outsiders see Rasta, they will see the Orthodox in us.
Yes, I overstand that there are theological differences.  Why do you think I joined the forum??  How do you think I feel?? I am all alone, my King and God tells me to join a Church that won’t accept me.
The personality and soul of HIM Haile Selassie represents to Rastas that which they could not find anywhere.  We see a Christ, an African Christ, not the Christ of oppressors, of hypocrites, or of slave masters, but a Christ who raised them to fulfill their destiny as warriors of God, who fulfilled them as a people, and who fought against the evil of European Imperialism.
There never should have been a need for HIM Haile Selassie or the Rastafari movement.  Because there never should have been oppression, never should have been racism, slavery, segregation, pillaging Crusades, Inquisitions, and the list goes on.  The blood is on many hands, Christian and otherwise.  And it is the warriors of Rastafari who have received the divine task of restoring the world to the rightful path.  And we wish that the words of the Emperor be fulfilled: “Therefore, it has become the noble responsibility of Christians, and peoples of other faiths and their leaders throughout the world, to pray and to work hard for the preservation of world peace.”
 2.  My hands are tied on this point.  How can a Christian defend Jesus as the Messiah to a Jew without being allowed to use both the New and Old Testaments?  In other words, how can such a claim be defended if you cannot use any evidence from the life of Jesus (miracles, attributes etc. etc.)  In this vein, how can I reply if I am allowed to use only those instances that are acknowledged by outside sources, to justify my beliefs??  I have dozens of accounts that lead credence to my beliefs, but they could all be discredited as fabrications merely because they are only told by Rastafarians.  Of course, they are only told by Rastafarians because anyone acknowledges them as truth would see HIM Haile Selassie is indeed divine! It seems to me that the same could be said in the defense of mainstream Christian beliefs.  Any source which validates Christ as the Messiah is a Christian source.
However, for the record I feel it should be said that the only official response given by HIM to the question of His divinity is an English translation of an Amharic answer to an English question.  It is reported to be an inaccurate translation, and as of yet no impartial third party has attempted to confirm or deny such an allegation.
In addition, the Emperor granted land in Ethiopia to the Rastafarian movement, met with Rastafari elders in Ethiopia and the Caribbean, corresponded with Bob Marley, and donated His Lion of Judah ring to Bob Marley.  Not very discouraging actions, are they??  The Imperial Family of Ethiopia today is extremely prominent within the Rasta community.  They speak at Rasta gatherings, support Rastafarian organizations, and even defended the right of Rastafarians to use images and quotes of them or the Emperor without having to ask permission from them (i.e. Rastas do not have to adhere to copyright restrictions).  The Ethiopian World Federation, organized by the Imperial Family, gains its largest support from the Rastafari movement, not the Orthodox Church.  Indeed, in His 1966 speech to the Jamaican Parliament, the Emperor acknowledged our assistance.
I must say, these do not seem to be deeds designed to discourage the Rasta movement at all.
 3.  In reference to those Rastas baptized into the EOTC, you said that they were living a lie and invalidated their baptism.  I disagree.  By virtue of HIM divinity, His Words and Will are also divine.  I am prepared to argue that therefore the baptism of those individuals is still valid, because such an action is in accordance to the Will of God.  Only He knows the Truth in their hearts.  Although, I must say personally that it may be possible for those individuals to vocally renounce HIM divinity (naturally a requirement for Orthodox baptism), I absolutely and unequivocally refuse to take such an action.  He is divine. Period.  The Church, if She is to accept me, must accept the whole me, not hollow words, spoken lies, and a compromised shallow version of my soul.
The rest of your comments were in reference to a post I copied from a Rasta brother of mine.  Therefore, I do not wish to defend the post, but rather I wish to state that that is a typical conservative Rasta response to HIM’s supposed “denial”, not necessarily a response espoused by those Rastas who may be affiliated with the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

In response to your post (Reply 35):

Interestingly enough, Christ fulfilled prophecy as the Son of David and is heralded as the Conquering of the Tribe of Judah.  Given that Mary was a Levite, this is a tough sell to see Him as the Lion of a tribe of which He was not a member!
Once again, I am limited to only those stories which are not propagated by the Rasta movement.  I do have claims which support the fulfillment of those verses by HIM Haile Selassie.  However, for now I shall concentrate on the comment you made on judgment.
HIM Haile Selassie stood before the nations of the world on three occasions: First, His 1930 coronation as Emperor; second, His address to the League of Nations in 1936, and then His UN address in 1963.
You say He did not judge?? He may not have judged souls, and cast them into a pit of burning fire, but He judged alright.  In 1936, He told the League of Nations that the organization had no chance of survival if they did not prevent the Italian invasion.  He said “The flame shall be lit in Africa, but it shall burn in Europe”
The Judgment is coming, but first “We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations but to our fellow men within the human community.”
I never said that 1 Thessalonians 5:2 would mean that the Messiah would go unnoticed.  Far from it.  In fact, the coming of Haile Selassie was a well documented event, attended by dignitaries from virtually all the world’s nations.  And they all bowed before HIM Haile Selassie! And this was an unexpected and sudden episode.  Where in the Bible does it say that the Messiah is going to return on such and such a date?? Nowhere!
You see, this is why no church could ever say that Rastafarians are correct - because you guys were supposed to see it.  But everyone is so busy looking for a blond-haired, blue-eyed Christ to come from the sky, hit you on the head, and say “I’m back”; that you missed the whole thing.  No, I cannot convince you that I am right.  But that’s not the point.
And this follows to my quoted passage from the Gospel of John.  He isn’t going to come again with blood dripping, holes in His wrists, waking from the dead. He isn’t dead!  The first time He came, He told everyone who He was, performed miracles, etc. etc.  Still how many have heard the Word and do not believe?? So if He says He is the Messiah some still won’t believe.  If it wasn’t convincing the first time, why would He do it the same way the second time??  This time, those who see it, see it.  We don’t convert, we don’t proselytize.  We believe what we believe no apologies, and no compromises.


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Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam

P.S. As you can see, some things I have repeated.  No need to reply more than once.
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« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2006, 02:18:55 AM »

No matter what Rastaman posts on this site or on this thread can change the fact that:

1. The late Emporer Haile Sellassie is not god.

2. HIM (the late) is dead.

3. The rasta movement and its cousins (12 tribes, Ngybeghi etc.) is NOT of Ethiopian origin but of Jamaican origin.

4. The Ethiopian Church is Orthodox Christian NOT rasta in anyway.

Anyone posting here should just visit official Ethiopian websites; none of which have any mention of supporting rastas.




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« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2006, 03:09:13 AM »

Controversy Marks Ethiopian Orthodox Church Anniversary       
THE Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church's 36th anniversary was marked by controversy when during the celebration service on Labour Day, May 23, the officiating priest refused to baptize a man wearing dreadlocks, telling him that he had to cut his hair first.

"It's the rule of the church," said Rev Father Haile Molekot who assisted the resident Kes Gabre Selassie during the baptismal ceremony.

 
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church compound at Maxfield Avenue, Kingston, is shown in this March 25, 2006 file photo, during the funeral of Rastafarian patriarch Mortimo St George Planno. (Photo: Observer file) 

Although he sought to downplay the issue, the dreadlocked Garth Drummond could not conceal his disappointment.
When it was pointed out to him that he would have to renounce certain teachings of Rastafari, Drummond said he had no problem.

"It doesn't matter. I've certain literal works to really perform, y'know, and that will speak for itself," said Drummond, who still attends services at the Tewahedo Church.
Drummond told the Sunday Observer that the request to remove his locks came as a surprise.

"As I approached the altar, he came and whispered in my ears, after you get baptized you gotta cut your dread and groom your beard," he said.
According to Drummond the priest said as that as long he as was not into the worship of Emperor Haile Selassie as god, there was no problem.

"He said after you get baptized, you sign a paper to renounce the emperor," Drummond said.
"Prior to being up at the altar, he should have had all those things clarified if that was the case. So I decided to stand down because that not going to stop me to perform certain works, " said Drummond.

Although Rastafarians make up a significant portion of its membership, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, one of the oldest Christian churches, does not preach the divinity of Haile Selassie I, whom Rastafarians deify.

Through the instrumentation of Haile Selassie, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church was established in Jamaica in 1970, as a response to the Rasta community which for many years clamoured for its establishment in Jamaica.

At the church's inception, many prominent dreadlocked Rastafarians were baptized there, among them, Rastafarian patriarch Mortimo Planno, singer Peter Tosh, and at a later date Rita Marley and journalist Barbara Blake Hannah.
However, in recent years, while female Rastafarians are allowed to wear dreadlocks, there have been efforts to get the 'brethren' to shed their locks.

"At the same time," said Molekot, himself a former Rastafarian, "you still have men in the church who are dreadlocks, but they were baptized in the early days when the church came here. They were accepted as what you called the pioneers of the church. But the church is here for 36 years now, so therefore people should learn."

But not all members of the clergy were in agreement with the decision not to baptize dreadlocked Rastafarian males.
Deacon Zedingel Greenland who was once also a Rastafarian, expressed disappointment.

"Other churches do it," said Greenland, adding that in other churches, during baptism, have altar calls and that anyone who has the urge to be baptized may come forward.
"Baptism does not mean that a man is a Christian; baptism is just the door to enter in the fold for you to teach him Christianity," said Greenland.

However, Molekot said the international church hierarchy has been insisting that the rules be strictly adhered to.
"All Ethiopians who came to Jamaica over these many years stated that the rules of the church must be upheld. Even our Archbishop, His Holiness Abuna Yesehaq, tried to implement it many times, but as soon as he turned his back, there is a difference," said Molekot.

"It is as if they try to compromise the rules by baptizing dreadlocks," he added, saying it was not the rule of the church internationally.
The baptism of dreadlocked members happened only in Jamaica and sometimes in the United States, said Molekot.

Normally, he added, the church offers sacrament classes at the end of which it determines those who are ready for baptism. At that point, males are required to cut their dreadlocks.
"The same rule does not apply to women," said Molekot.

"No, women's hair is their beauty. So they wear the locks as they like. So it's the teaching of the church, it's not my personal thing."
But that reasoning did not find favour with elder Kes Mahitama Selassie. "It shouldn't be so with that beloved brother," he said, referring to Drummond.

"Because, from what I understand, he had been to instruction classes ... and what they should have at least helped him to do, was to learn certain things."

Speaking about the works he intends to do, Drummond, a returning resident who is also a freelance writer, plans "to get people more familiar with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, about its canons and the liturgy which is something I'm familiar with for a very long time," he said.

"And at this stage, I decided to show a greater solidarity and identify with the church. But I see that they have a little attitude with the Rastafarian brothers here, and so forth, y'know."


Source: Sunday Observer Sunday, June 25, 2006 BY BASIL WALTERS 
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« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2006, 05:32:52 AM »

Rastaman,

Quote
By this you mean to say that it is impossible to mix the two faiths into one.  Although it may be nice for the Orthodox to say Rasta beliefs are anathematized, that we are heretics, that we are blasphemers…it is not that simple.

Yes it is that simple. What are you not understanding about the fact the Church has anathematised certain beliefs and doctrines, and that your belief system falls under those anathemas? What is not simple about this?

Quote
We use Amharic in worship and as an everyday language not to mention the existing translation of the HSV Amharic (Haile Selassie Version Amharic) Bible into Jamaican Patois.  Rastas give their children Ethiopian names and celebrate Ethiopian holidays.


Do you think Orthodoxy is about holidays and speaking Amharic? Forgive me, but this sentiment of yours just goes to prove your extreme ignorance of Orthodoxy. However, it is not your ignorance of Orthodoxy that continues to astound me; it is the fact that in spite of your ignorance, you consistently attempt to speak on the Church’s behalf. In this instance for example, you are telling us Orthodox that it is not so simple for us to deem you a heretic because….you speak Amharic and celebrate Ethiopian holidays? Are you for real? Language, names, and holidays are cultural elements that have no bearing on the Orthodox faith; they are superficial exteriors through which the Orthodox faith is expressed; they are accidental to the Orthodox faith, not essential to it, hence the cultural diversity within the Orthodox Church as evidenced through her use of a range of languages (Coptic, Greek, Armenian, Amharic etc.) and her celebration of a range of different holidays according to the various customs.

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Yes, I overstand that there are theological differences.


You make this observation as if it is peripheral to considering your compatibility with Orthodoxy, when it is in fact quintessential. St. Paul the Apostle defines the Orthodox Church as being expressed through unity in faith---unity in the Apostolic Orthodox faith. He says nothing about language and other cultural exteriors. You can speak any language you want, but in the end you worship a dead man contrary to the dogmatic teachings of the Church, and you blaspheme the almighty God. Your belief system is not only heretical, it is idolatrous and pagan.

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We venerate Ethiopian saints

Actually, you mock these Ethiopian Saints by defiling the Orthodox faith for which they stood and died for. You’re only fooling yourself if you think you are honouring them within the context of a blasphemous anathematised idolatrous cult. They belong to the Orthodox Church which has anathematised your beliefs; you belong to the accursed group that incurs the Church’s anathema.

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In other words, how can such a claim be defended if you cannot use any evidence from the life of Jesus (miracles, attributes etc. etc.)  In this vein, how can I reply if I am allowed to use only those instances that are acknowledged by outside sources, to justify my beliefs??

Because I can prove the Gospel account of the life of Jesus to be credible and reliable; those who recorded his sayings and actions were doing so upon the basis of eye-witness testimony, their accounts are harmonious and are confirmed by extra-Biblical sources etc. etc. I wouldn’t expect a Jew to simply take the Gospels at face value; I can give him a 10, 000 pages thesis as to why the Gospel accounts are historically reliable and credible as testimonies with respect to the life of Jesus.

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It is reported to be an inaccurate translation

I read the alleged reasons behind the inaccuracy of the translation as given by you in the other thread, and to be honest, I found it quite amusing. Let me make things easier, and let us assume the truth of your allegations for arguments sake. So, according to your claims, HIM never stated the clause “I am a mortal”. I’ll give you that, not on account of some concession to an unsubstantiated anonymous Rastafarian claim, but rather on account of the fact it doesn’t change anything with respect to the implications of his answer, because he nonetheless said, “I am a man”, which has the exact same implications as an affirmation of mortality given the context of the interview as I already discussed in my previous post, and which I am not inclined to repeat. Go back and read it again.

Furthermore, why would we need an affirmation of HIM concerning his mortality when it is a historical reality. Where is HIM right now? His body is dust in a grave; he’s dead! What further proof of HIM’s mortality do you need? Come on man, you’re smarter than this. The true Christ is RISEN; he momentarily allowed death to have dominion over himself, however by virtue of His divinity and authority over death He raised Himself from the dead in a glorified body and appeared to all His disciples. The tomb of Christ was empty after three days; the tomb of HIM remains with his bones up until this very day.

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In addition, the Emperor granted

Again, I will make this easier for you by granting the truth of your claims along with the implications that follow, just for arguments sake. HIM is not my God, nor was he a heirarch of my Church. Therefore what he does or does not do, has nothing to do with the Orthodox Church, alright? HIM was a bad, bad, rebellious, disobedient, and deluded man. The fact that Orthodoxy, and the Christ that the Church preaches, condemns your blasphemous cult, is an unmoved reality in spite of what HIM did or did not say or do. Does this make things easier for you?

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I must say, these do not seem to be deeds designed to discourage the Rasta movement at all.

You’re using faulty logic. Support of Rastafarain people does not mean support for the Rastafarian faith. What don’t you understand about that? You have to learn to distinguish between a people and that people’s faith. HIM may have supported the Rastas for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with what they actually believe. We already know what HIM thought of them with respect to their belief system; he thought them to be misguided, hence the reason he sent Abune Yeshaq to Jamaica in the first place.

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In reference to those Rastas baptized into the EOTC, you said that they were living a lie and invalidated their baptism.  I disagree.

You have no right or authority to disagree or agree on this matter; you are not a representative of the Orthodox Church to claim that authority or right to speak as to the implications of a heretic manipulating his way into being a member of the Orthodox Church. The teachings of the Church are clear. If one maintains teachings contrary to the teachings of the Church whilst attempting to live the life of the Church, then they are living a LIE; they are living a contradiction. It’s simple logic. It’s like an atheist worshipping Allah at a Mosque. 

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By virtue of HIM divinity, His Words and Will are also divine.


HIM is a dead man. Do you need to go to his grave and see his physical bones to understand that?

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The Church, if She is to accept me, must accept the whole me, not hollow words, spoken lies, and a compromised shallow version of my soul.

You sound like a patient who wants to go to a hospital, but wishes to prescribe his conditions and terms of admission and treatment. How foolish! The Church is a spiritual hospital; your heresy is the cause of spiritual disease. You either come to the hospital to deal with the cause of the disease in order to be treated, or you maintain the cause of the disease and let it slowly kill you; it’s your choice. But to expect the hospital to tolerate the cause of the disease whilst attempting to treat the disease at the same time, is nothing but foolish.
 
No one is trying to impose Orthodoxy on you. If you want to worship a dead man, that’s your right. Just understand that you have no place in the Orthodox Church if you will not let go of such doctrines; if you want to succumb to the devil’s deceit and manipulate your way into the Church, then you will suffer the judgment of the Almighty. It’s Rastafarianism or Orthodox Christianity, you can’t have both. PERIOD.

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Interestingly enough, Christ fulfilled prophecy as the Son of David and is heralded as the Conquering of the Tribe of Judah.  Given that Mary was a Levite, this is a tough sell to see Him as the Lion of a tribe of which He was not a member!

You want to dispute the testimony of the Scriptures now? It is not I or any contemporary Church leader that attributes Christ to being of the tribe of Judah, it is the Holy Prophets and the Apostles elected by Christ himself. Micah the Prophet prophesied concerning Christ, saying: “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)

Was HIM born in Bethelehem? Nope. The Judahite prophesied of in this verse, who was to be born in Bethlehem, who would be ruler over Israel, and whose existence was eternal, was none other than Christ Jesus, Son of the Living God.

St. Matthew the Apostle of Christ reiterated Micah’s prophecy saying: “And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.” (Matthew 2:6)

Are you and your leaders so arrogant Rastaman, so as to think you know better than the Holy Prophet Micah, and the Holy Apostle elected by Christ himself, St Matthew? Humble yourselves, for you and your fellow Rastafarians are but ignorants before these great and Holy men of God.

Neither you nor your cult prove any familiarity with the Bible whatsoever, for had you or your cult leaders been well trained in the Scriptures, you would have known that since the days of Joshua the prophet, the tribe of Levi ceased to exist as a distinct tribe, so how can it be said that the blessed St. Mary, who existed more than a millenium after the event, came from this very tribe?

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You say He did not judge?? He may not have judged souls , and cast them into a pit of burning fire

Then he did not fulfil the verses regarding Christ’s second coming, since Christ is clearly speaking about judging the souls of the world, and granting them eternal paradise or casting them into eternal fire. Have you actually read the Bible man? It seems like you have no idea regarding what the Biblical Christ taught and preached concerning his second coming.

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In fact, the coming of Haile Selassie was a well documented event

So was President Bush’s, and Sadam Hussein’s, the Queen of England’s, and any other historical world leader. Those three are probably more world renowned than HIM is too. What's your point?

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And they all bowed before HIM Haile Selassie!

Oh, you mean a bow of respect given to most world leaders, including the Queen of England, or even local authorities like justices and magistrates of courts? Come on man, you're smarter than this.

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Where in the Bible does it say that the Messiah is going to return on such and such a date?? Nowhere!

Who said that the Bible pronounces a date for the second coming of Christ? I certainly didn’t; so why are you challenging me to search the Scriptures for such a thing?  The Bible explicitly pronounces the fact that Christ will descend from heaven on the clouds of glory to judge the living and the dead, to grant paradise and cast into hell. Sorry, HIM came into this world like any normal human being and died like any normal human being.

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You see, this is why no church could ever say that Rastafarians are correct - because you guys were supposed to see it.


You can adopt that fanciful fantasy if you wish, but the plain and simple truth is that the Church would never say Rastafarians are correct because She, being established by the authority of Christ and His Apostles and being inspired by the Holy Spirit, recognises the plain truth that Rastafarians are simply a satanically deceived peoples who have replaced the Almighty God with an idol, namely, a dead powerless man.

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But everyone is so busy looking for a blond-haired, blue-eyed Christ to come from the sky

Do you have any serious intellectual arguments to make here, or are you just going to continue wasting our time with this stupidity? No one is looking for anyone with any particular physical appearance—it seems like you just want to start making things up on our behalf now to save face.

Christ is the one who said he will descend from the heavens on the clouds of glory with a multitude of Angels; I’m not making this up, the Church is not making this up. These were his own words. Read the Bible for once—the Bible that the Orthodox Church produced and that she has defended and maintained for the past two thousand years.
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« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2006, 10:34:28 AM »

The text of my private message to you still stands, EA.

I was foolish enough already.
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« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2006, 01:13:58 PM »

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'
"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning." - St. John 15:18-27

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« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2006, 01:22:10 PM »

Rastaman,

You seem to misunderstand everyone's frustration, and you turn this into some sort of martyrdom on your behalf.  But no one hear is hating you or persecuting you.  No one is threatening you.  No one damaged your property for being a Rasta.  We only want you to start thinking for yourself, thinking logically.  Reread EA's last post.  He means well, and he was very clear, and he's certainly not forcing you to be Orthodox.  He even gave some Bible verses to assist you in understanding why Rastafarianism is inconsistent with the Bible and thus heretical.  He preaches to you no different than St. Stephen or St. Paul or St. Peter preached to the Jews who persecuted Jesus.  In fact, many of them would probably be looking down and be amazed at the blindness that covers many of the Rastafarians, when the Bible clearly shows proof that implies the tenets of Rastafarianism to be nothing but deceptions and downright heretical.  Try to get past what stubborn feelings of attachment you have for HIM, and think more clearly of what the Scriptures teach.

May God enlighten you and lead you to the Light.

Mina
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« Reply #78 on: August 28, 2006, 01:53:02 PM »

I regret to say that what I have written previously would lead some to believe that I think it is some sort of "martyrdom."

Let me put it this way.  What leads me to Orthodoxy is what the Church wishes me to deny.  Therefore, were I to deny HIM divinity, I would certainly not wish to pursue Orthodoxy.

Over the past few weeks, I have witnessed first hand the many problems that plague the Rastafari nation.  I am not Rasta for anyone else, I am Rasta for myself.

If it was up to me, I would attend an Orthodox Church tomorrow.  But that is not possible.

You wish for me to categorically deny something that defines my whole existence.  You may pray for me if you wish, but don't expect much.

EkhristosAnesti might mean well, but his defence can be summed as follows: Any Rasta source is inherently biased and has manipulated to fit what Rastas WANT to believe.

Therefore, it is impossible to prove any of my beliefs or claims.  I personally have seen the evidence, and looked at the Scripture, and I believe.

I am sorry that we have to disagree.  I believe now is the time for me to state, that I consider my exploration of Orthodoxy at an end.

Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
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« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2006, 12:00:21 AM »

What leads me to Orthodoxy is what the Church wishes me to deny.

Then you are obviously pursuing Orthodoxy for the wrong reasons. You just can't have your cake and eat it; you either accept the Orthodox Church and her Dogmas, or you reject them both. It's very simple.

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EkhristosAnesti might mean well, but his defence can be summed as follows: Any Rasta source is inherently biased and has manipulated to fit what Rastas WANT to believe.

What a cop-out man. We have discussed a number of issues that have nothing to do with the credibility of Rastafarian sources; issues that you obviously are incapable of honestly confronting e.g. the incompatibility of Rastafarianism with authoritative Orthodox Dogma as expressed through the Holy Scriptures and the Ecumenical Councils.

Let's not be equivocative or dishonest here Rastaman;what exactly were those issues to which Rastafarian sources came into question? They were issues relating to the affairs of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. You defy common sense in objecting to the validity of my very reasonable request that you find Orthodox sources when discussing the affairs of the Orthodox Church. I don't think you're a stupid person at all, but I think this falsehood you are so attached to has seriously blinded you to common sense issues.

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I personally have seen the evidence, and looked at the Scripture, and I believe.

Don't lie to yourself man. If you know the Scriptures so well, then why did you deny that the Lord Jesus Christ was a Judahite, when it is attested to by the Prophets and the Apostles as I proved in my last post? Why did you claim that St. Mary was a levite, when the existence of the levite tribe (notice I said tribe, and not priesthood) as a distinct homogenous group ceased over a millenium before St. Mary was even born?

If you knew the Scriptures so well, then why are you ignorant of what Christ said concerning His second coming? Why are you ignorant regarding the nature of Christ as defined by the Scriptures which contradicts the absurd notion of him re-incarnating through a new human body and dying?
 
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I believe now is the time for me to state, that I consider my exploration of Orthodoxy at an end.

The only thing worse than you not accepting the truth of Orthodoxy, is to accept it under false pretenses, so in a sense, I am glad you have realised that you cannot accept Orthodoxy along with your Rastafarian presuppositions, though I am said to hear that your allegiance to heresy overrides your pursuit to the Truth that was dispensed to the Orthodox Church by none other than the Incarnate Christ Himself, through His Holy Apostles, and to the Holy Fathers of the Church.

I wish you the best of luck in your life nonetheless.
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« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2006, 03:06:04 AM »

I notice how you avoided the whole topic of the Rastafarian baptism with pictures by an EOTC official.

I even posted an article which states that Rastas must cut their locks and sign a statement refuting HIM divinity.  Heck, I am arguing your argument and you ignore it.

Anyhow: "Later in the afternoon the Rases were invited to visit His Holiness Abuna Basilios,
the Archbishop of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church at his residence. The other delegates came
along too. We discussed H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie, being the returned Messiah. His Holiness
the Abuna told us at the conclusion of the discussion that the Bible can be interpreted that
way. We had tea and honey with him."

"The Mission was granted audience with H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I
at the Imperial Palace, Addis-Ababa. We were introduced to H.I.M., by the Minister of the
Imperial Guard. Emperor Haile Selassie I welcomed the delegation warmly. Speaking Amharic
which was interpreted by the Minister of the Imperial Guard, H.I.M. told us that he knew the
black people of the West and particularly Jamaica were blood brothers to the Ethiopians and
he knew that slaves were sent from Ethiopia to Jamaica. He said we should send the right
people. The Emperor said Ethiopia was large enough to hold all the people of Afrikan descent
living outside Afrika and he would send a delegation to the West Indies. Dr. Leslie told H.I.M.
that Jamaica had plenty of sugar cane factories making sugar and rum. H.I.M. replied that in
Ethiopia there was a refinery making sugar but not rum. H.I.M. thanked the delegation and
presented each of us with a gold medal.
All the rest of the delegation left His presence except the three Rastafarian Brethren (Bros. Fil,
Mack, Planno, as we had presents for H.I.M.). Alvaranga presented H.I.M. with a wood-carved
map of Afrika with a portrait of the Emperor on one side of the wooden case. The Emperor
then spoke in English for the first time to us. He said, “That’s Afrika. Is it from the Rastafari
Brethren?” (That showed that he knew us before). We said “Yes”. Brother Mack presented
photographs of the Rastafari Brethrens in Jamaica. H.I.M. said again in English, “Photographs;
thank you”. Mack also gave H.I.M. a painting of Errol Flynn’s island in Jamaica (i.e. Navy Island,
off the mainland of Port Antonio). Brother Planno gave H.I.M. a woven scarf in red, gold and
green. H.I.M. said “Is it you that wove it”. He said “Yes”. He said “Thank you again”. We also
gave H.I.M. a photograph of a widow and six children—her husband, a Rastafari Brethren, was
shot and killed by the Police in Jamaica. H.I.M. asked us to who was taking care of them now.
We told H.I.M. that we took the case to Jamaica’s Premier but left the island before it was
settled. The Emperor said that he would do what he could to help. We then took leave."

"In the afternoon Archbishop Basilios again called the delegation to his residence where we had
tea and honey wine. He then gave us all robes and said that he did not only give them to us as
a gift but that we should all know ourselves to be Ethiopians."

"One of the Rases, Bro. Mortimer Planno presented H.H. the Abuna Basilios with a painting
depicting H.I.M. in Psalm 2."

All quotes from the Mission 1961 report.  Funded by the Emperor.

"Praises to the Hola One of I-ration Emperor Haile King Selassie 1st & Empress Menen,

I would like to share a little bit of knowledge & I-sperience of mine on the EOC. I am on my way to become a member of the EOC.
_________________________________________________
The major condition for baptism is to renounce the divinity of Haile Selassie. "That is number one," says the Archbishop. "It is the major thing." And it remains the primary point of departure separating the "Rasta Christians" from all other branches of Rastafari
__________________________________________________
This is a SERIOUS LIE......FIRE!!!!!
I have a number of bredren & sistren who are baptized members of the church. I come to dispel some rumours or myths about the Orthodox Church. The EOC does not have the intention to Convert Rastafari Children into baldhead christians or for Rasta to denounce Haile Selassie Divinity. My bredren told I they dont even baptise in Iyesus Christos Name...they baptize you in the Name of the Ab,(Father) Wowolde(Son), & Menfis Quidus(Holy I-rit) he NEVER DENOUNCED HAILE SELASSIE DIVINITY. so again that is a HUGE UNTRUTH

I have personally seen Abuna Yeshaq being interviewed & the statements he made about Rastafari were opposite from what this article tells you. He NEVER ONCE stated that Haile Selassie was deeply dismayed at the Rasses for seeing him as God...on the contrany he stated that Rasta & Christian is all of God's family
that there is no need to fuss & seperate eachother.
When I heard this coming from his mouth I was SHOCKED because of all the rumours i have heard about. I heard that he is on a "mission(ary)" to convert Rastafari Sons & Dawtas & lead them away from Rasta.
There are a number of Rastafari EOC members who Hail Selassie as the Almighty Creator of flesh.(and dont hide it or keep it secret)

Abuna Yeshaq is aware that there are members of the Church that sight the divinity of Haile Selassie & worship H.I.M. he does not have any intention of changing their beleif or God.
I am stating this because my heartical Rastafari bredren speaks with Abuna Yeshaq on the phone from time to time and not once has Abba asked my bredren to let go of Selassie or instructed him not to worship Haile Selassie.(& he is fully aware that my bredren see Selassie I as the Almighty Creator)
To I Emperor Haile Selassie I is the Almighty Creator:
God in Flesh
The Power of the Trinity
I look forward to becoming a member of EOC & hailing Selassie I to the fullest in his element.

I reasoned with a deacon at the church that i have attended in Tampa, he was ordained deacon by Abuna Yeshaq, he was seeking advice from Abuna Yeshaq after the ordination as a young deacon in the faith and guess what advice Abuna Yeshaq gave this man:
I was told by the deacon that Abuna Yeshaq told him to embrace The Rastafari people not to shun them away, try to learn about them and accept them in his church.
THIS WAS ANOTHER SHOCK BECAUSE THIS SEEMED TO CONTRADICT WHAT OTHER RASSES WERE SAYING ABOUT ABUNA YESHAQ. THATS WHY IVE LEARNED NOT TO LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE EOC OR ABUNA YESHAQ. PLEASE COME TO YOUR OWN I-CLUSION ABOUT THE CHURCH & ABUNA YESHAQ, VISIT A CHURCH, REASON WITH THE(KEZ)PRIESTS, DONT JUST LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE SAY. "

"...sistren my bredren & sistren got baptized in Jamaica at Maxfield Avenue Kingston and till this day they Hail Selassie I as the Almighty without any apology & like i said Abuna Yeshaq and other clergyman are aware of this & NOT ONCE have they asked him to trim or denounce His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie Divinity & like I said my Rastaman bredren have a tight relationship with Abuna Yeshaq. Also there is no need to bring certain Rastaman to Christ because they already know Christ & They know Christ in his second advent as His Imperial Majestic Haile Selassie I."

I am misrepresenting Orthodoxy and the EOTC??  Well there is some misrepresenting going on here.

Kibir leNegusNegast Janhoi IgziYahbeher Hayle Silase.



Wow, you notice how there was all that denial going on??  Or not.
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« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2006, 08:39:21 AM »

Quote
I notice how you avoided the whole topic of the Rastafarian baptism


You didn’t even bother citing a source on that occasion; there was nothing substantial to respond to. I nevertheless tacitly responded in my request for an appeal to credible Ethiopian Orthodox sources when discussing the affairs and policies of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

Quote
with pictures by an EOTC official.

Have you heard the saying, “A picture says a thousand words”? Tell me what a picture says regarding the belief of the individual being baptised, the intention of the priest so baptising, the terms and conditions upon which the baptism is taking place etc. etc.

Like I said earlier man, it seems that your common sense is being impaired in your blind and irrational pursuit to defend this indefensible cause of yours.

Quote
I even posted an article which states that Rastas must cut their locks and sign a statement refuting HIM divinity.  Heck, I am arguing your argument and you ignore it.

As you admit, the article you pasted doesn’t serve your interests, but rather it serves my own, so what bearing does it have on my integrity whether or not I choose to refer to it or not? I ignored it because your case has been sufficiently refuted in its absence, and I don’t wish to drag this discussion on any longer since it is starting to follow a circular pattern.

I don’t need you to argue anything for me; you’re doing great destroying your own position by continuous appeal to dubious sources and the promotion of arguments that expose the severe ignorance and intellectual depravity of your cult.

Furthermore, you must have some courage to try and accuse me of ignoring arguments; I’m still waiting for you to address the fact that your heresy is anathematised by Ethiopian Orthodox Saints and Councils and falsified by the Holy Scriptures. I’m still waiting for you to address the fact your God is (or should I say, was) a powerless mortal who had no authority over death, for he, like every other normal human being, was a victim of death. My Christ rose from the dead on the third day and sits alive at the right hand of His Father; your Christ rots in a grave.

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All quotes from the Mission 1961 report.  Funded by the Emperor.

What have you proven with these quotations? I don’t see anything of significant relevance to the issues of our discussion. Furthermore, you continue to display a careless lack of scrutiny when it comes to approaching sources. What is this Mission 1961 report? Who is the author? The quotes you paste sound like they are taken from a personal journal account; so whose perspective is being narrated?

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This is a SERIOUS LIE......FIRE!!!!!

 Cheesy Nice argument (it was the caps lock that really convinced me). You’re doing a really great job of proving to everyone just how weak your position is if it stands on the personal claims and hearsay of anonymous Rastafarian individuals. Anyone can shout "liar liar pants on fire", but at the end of the day, whose claim proves to be credible?

Quote
I look forward to becoming a member of EOC & hailing Selassie I to the fullest in his element.

This will never happen, and if it does, this individual will surely witness the judgment and wrath of the Lord, for according to the Holy Tradition of the Church, anyone who approaches the Eucharist unworthily shall be accursed and there is nothing worse that could imbue one with unworthiness than an ascription to blasphemous and idolatrous heresy.

In other words, he and anyone else who succumbs to the deceit of satan in their attempt to be part of the Church that they in fact defile with their satanic doctrines, will bring the worst of judgments upon themselves.

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VISIT A CHURCH, REASON WITH THE(KEZ)PRIESTS

Yeah, you do that Rastaman; stop listening to the deceit and hearsay of these heretics and consult an Ethiopian Orthodox priest on the matter. I’m sure the Ethiopian Orthodox priests in Canada would share identical sentiments to those expressed by the priests of St. Mary’s Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Los Angeles, who in response to the following question posed by an inquirer (source: http://www.ethiopianorthodoxchurch.org/belief/faq/faq.html#question_6
):

"Is emperor salassie god? like the rastafarians say? do your beliefs line up with the rastafarian faith?"

Answered:

No. Please refer to our belief by clicking here.

Do you know what they linked the inquirer to in their answer, Rastaman? It was the Nicene Creed. In other words, these priests answered this inquirer with the following sentiment: “No, because to believe such things would be contrary to the Nicene Creed”, or in other words, “No, because to believe such things would be contrary to the Dogmatic Tradition of our Church”, or in other words, “No, because to believe such things would be to contradict the very Orthodoxy for which we are known as the Orthodox Church to begin with, it would be a denial of our very identity and a denial of Salvation itself”.

I feel like i'm beating a dead horse with you, but I will not let you get away with your attempt to publicly slander the Holy Orthodox Church.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 08:45:02 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

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« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2006, 11:18:59 AM »

Dear Rastaman,

This doesn't change what Orthodoxy truly is.  The fact that the Ethiopian churches, both canonical and noncanonical tell us officially that they denounce HIM's divinity, then it doesn't (well actually it does matter, but in a different way) matter what inner sources say.  They're simply just doing false worship, and they should be excommunicated, whether it be layman, priest, bishop, or even a so-called patriarch that condones these beliefs.

If the Ethiopian churches that you have visited are Rastas in belief, then those churches only remind me of the Pergamos churches in Chapter 2 of Revelations, who compromised their dogmatic faith with heretics, even though they may do good deeds.  If even Abuna Yeshaq or HIM truly believed in Rast beliefs, then I wouldn't hesitate to call them heretics, that is if they truly did.  Official sources and interviews said they didn't, but somehow, "inside" sources say they did.  As much as this so incredible, if these inside sources are true, not only did Abuna and HIM lie, buty they are condemned heretics.

It's that simple.  If you're going to join the Ethiopian Church, don't join on false pretenses.  In fact, something that bothered me about Rita Marley's conversion is that she converted only because HIM "said so," but she never actually mentioned anything about denying his divinity.  So you may have some credence to what you're saying, but that doesn't change what the Ethiopian Church has ALWAYS taught.

God bless and enlighten you friend.

Mina
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« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2006, 04:47:44 PM »

minasoliman

Thanks for your support of the Ethiopian Church and your defense of our common faith you and I share which was founded by the Blood of Christ and established by the Apostles.

We are brothers in the same faith.

The Orthodox Church is not something we are starting nor something we are building. It is something we are continuing.

rastas need to have a religion that has the trappings, appearance and synbolisms of the Ethiopian Church without the Liturgy, Bible or any belief in Chirst. This way they could look like and feel like Ethiopian Orthodox Christians even though they do not have our same belief and faith. rastas love the "Africanness" that is preserved in the Ethiopian Church. The drum, the tsinotsil etc.

They would rather eat the peels and throw way the fruit; metaphorically speaking.

They have this right.

They also have the right to go directly to hell.
They also have a right to go directly to salvation as a means to avoid eternal death which is hell. But salvation is only through Christ who is the Son of the Living God. NO man on earth ever; dead or alive can fill His shoes or stand in His place.

They do not want this God.
The God they want was born though common human sexual relations, ahd his own children and was killed by the hand of other men. The God they worship has died and has not risen.

The Messiah of scripture would be known by His resurrection. This is my God...He Has Risen! Amen!

The rasta god is laying in his grave.

The man they call thier god though he is dead lives only in the body and blood of the Risen Chirst.

This true Risen Chirst Rose up from the dead and ascended to Heaven and sits at the right hand of the father 2000 years ago and will return again in the same flesh full grown to save the world. This God will be for all people not just rastas.

The rasta god is only known by the rastas. he has saved no world. He could nt even save his own life. But the rasta still loves him.

I pray not to but for the man they worship. That his sins might be forgiven.

We all know that thier are many religions that claim faith in Christ but maintain all kinds of heretical and discusting ideas at the same time that are contrary to Christ and His Church. These groups (some call them churches or christian denominations) are all over the world and has millions of people signing up daily.

rastas are just another group among millions.

The individual that has found this site is of interest because he is not a true rasta although he thinks he is.

A true rasta would not hang out with us Orthodox Christians like he has here on this site. He knows that his ideas are of no good here. But he continues.

Why?

Because he is searching.

He does not admit it but deep inside he is not true to the worship of a dead emporer. He feels that something is wrong although he pushes to hold up this ridiculousness.

I have lost patience with him.

My bad.

I am happy that you are strong enough to continue to help him.

He is getting closer and closer to the truth each time he reads and posts on this site.

Pray for me.

I pray that Pope Shenouda is in good health.

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"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2006, 12:16:27 AM »

rastaman..........theres an old saying in Jamaica...." The higher the monkey climb, the more he expose"....it might be time to crawl out from that branch you are on ...before it breaks...

      ( side note........E.A.   ............as always your posts are as sharp as a razors edge....)
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« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2006, 01:13:24 PM »

Mo the Ethio

I wanted to share this reading...

The Holy Gosple according to St. Luke Chapter 8

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

19 Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.

20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.

21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.



This is clear Truth that the Lord has spoken unto the Holy Church that though a person or persons have heard the word and claim faith in it does not mean that they are with Christ which is to be doers of His Word. So a person can be baptised is the Holy faith but fall from grace (yielding no fruit) because he is no longer one with the Word but only a partaker; feeding from it but never being nourished by it. These types are in the Church even today. These types are easily seen because they stand with ideas of thier own leaving to waste what was taught them.

I pray that rasta man finds the Truth.

Roots and Culcha ain't gonna cut it only.


« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 02:18:59 PM by Amdetsion » Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2006, 02:10:07 PM »

Mo the Ethio

I must say you are giving rastaman good advise. We do not want him to fall but to stand in truth.

(How is it you are so verse on Jamaican culture?).

Ekristos Anesti is always very on point. I agree.

The little Coptic I have picked up I remember renders his name 'Christ is Risen"!!! thus:" Ekristos Anesti"!!!.
Coptic Christians I know greet each other with this statement during the period between Ressurrection (easter as some say) and Pentacost. Of course all Orthodox Christians use "Chirst is Risen" as a greeting during the 50 days after ressurection in place of common greetings (at lease all that I have met).


My previous post included a good reading to remember since it is so exact in that we are not all keeping the true faith even though we all profess it.

Something to thnk about....

« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 02:43:30 PM by Amdetsion » Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2006, 04:05:23 PM »

እኔ ስለ እኔ ስለ ራሴ ብመሰክር ምስክሬ እውነት አይደለም፤ ስለ እኔ የሚመሰክር ሌላ ነው፥ እርሱም ስለ እኔ የሚመሰክረው ምስክር እውነት እንደ ሆነ አውቃለሁ።

ፊቂር ባንዲነት
ራስ ማርኮስ ዮሃንኒስ ቢንያም

ኺቢር ለኘጉስኘጋስት ጃንሆኢ ኢግዚያህበሀር ሓይለ ጺላሰ
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« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2006, 05:24:14 PM »

2 Peter Chap. 3:16-18

003:016 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be
understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.  

003:017 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
 
003:018 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lack or absence of a word is the place ready for Truth; the point which readies our move form darkness to light.

Let the ineffable word of God reveal to us the thought we have not and the expression we retain in our hearts.

Let us chain our tongues and imprison our ideas which are useless; full of folly. Instead let us meditate on the Lord who is the redeemer of us all placing His word in our hearts so that we may know Him not by our speech but by acknowledegement of Him which is the Word, the Risen Christ who has the power to heel, even raise the deed.

NO man who has ever lived on this earth has this power.

Only that which came down from heaven through the Holy Virgin Mary. He has not died and lives not but died and  rose from the dead and saved the world, sitting in power in heaven at the right hand of God His Father.

NO man on earth can take His place then....

Why?

He lives forever....

Christ was there at the dawn of creation, Christ was there at the flood, the parting of the red sea, at the crucifiction, the ressurection and the ascention.

This is God.

This same God will be present in His second coming which we are all awaiting.

Read the Word for His truth it is healing to the soul.

This is what We Ethiopians have been living on since the begining. It is what has kept us until this hour.
Including our Kings and Queens.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 05:29:25 PM by Amdetsion » Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
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« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2006, 06:43:29 PM »

Out of curiousity:

How many here have met a Rastafarian?? Only Mo the Ethio has admitted having experience with movement.
How many here have talked to HH Abuna Yeshaq??
How many here have talked to HIM Haile Selassie??
How many here have talked to HH Abuna Basilios??
How many here talked with Bob Marley after his "conversion"??
How many here have attended a Rastafarian gathering??
How many here have actually read a text from a Rastafarian elder??
How many here have heard traditional Rastafarian drumming and chanting (not reggae)??

Instead of attacking my beliefs, why don't you try learning about it and me first.  Maybe if you figure WHY I was attracted to Rastafarianism, you might do a better job of "converting" me.

It's pretty easy to sit there and judge me.  Walk a mile in my shoes first.

ራስ ማርኮስ ዮሃንኒስ ቢንያም
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