By this you mean to say that it is impossible to mix the two faiths into one. Although it may be nice for the Orthodox to say Rasta beliefs are anathematized, that we are heretics, that we are blasphemersÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦it is not that simple.
Yes it is
that simple. What are you not understanding about the fact the Church has anathematised certain beliefs and doctrines, and that your belief system falls under those anathemas? What is not simple about this?
We use Amharic in worship and as an everyday language not to mention the existing translation of the HSV Amharic (Haile Selassie Version Amharic) Bible into Jamaican Patois. Rastas give their children Ethiopian names and celebrate Ethiopian holidays.
Do you think Orthodoxy is about holidays and speaking Amharic? Forgive me, but this sentiment of yours just goes to prove your extreme ignorance of Orthodoxy. However, it is not your ignorance of Orthodoxy that continues to astound me; it is the fact that in spite of your ignorance, you consistently attempt to speak on the Church’s behalf. In this instance for example, you are telling us Orthodox that it is not so simple for us to deem you a heretic becauseÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.you speak Amharic and celebrate Ethiopian holidays? Are you for real? Language, names, and holidays are cultural elements that have no bearing on the Orthodox faith; they are superficial exteriors through which the Orthodox faith is expressed; they are accidental to the Orthodox faith, not essential to it, hence the cultural diversity within the Orthodox Church as evidenced through her use of a range of languages (Coptic, Greek, Armenian, Amharic etc.) and her celebration of a range of different holidays according to the various customs.
Yes, I overstand that there are theological differences.
You make this observation as if it is peripheral to considering your compatibility with Orthodoxy, when it is in fact quintessential. St. Paul the Apostle defines the Orthodox Church as being expressed through unity in faith---unity in the Apostolic Orthodox faith. He says nothing about language and other cultural exteriors. You can speak any language you want, but in the end you worship a dead man contrary to the dogmatic teachings of the Church, and you blaspheme the almighty God. Your belief system is not only heretical, it is idolatrous and pagan.
We venerate Ethiopian saints
Actually, you mock these Ethiopian Saints by defiling the Orthodox faith for which they stood and died for. You’re only fooling yourself if you think you are honouring them within the context of a blasphemous anathematised idolatrous cult. They belong to the Orthodox Church which has anathematised your beliefs; you belong to the accursed group that incurs the Church’s anathema.
In other words, how can such a claim be defended if you cannot use any evidence from the life of Jesus (miracles, attributes etc. etc.) In this vein, how can I reply if I am allowed to use only those instances that are acknowledged by outside sources, to justify my beliefs??
Because I can prove the Gospel account of the life of Jesus to be credible and reliable; those who recorded his sayings and actions were doing so upon the basis of eye-witness testimony, their accounts are harmonious and are confirmed by extra-Biblical sources etc. etc. I wouldn’t expect a Jew to simply take the Gospels at face value; I can give him a 10, 000 pages thesis as to why the Gospel accounts are historically reliable and credible as testimonies with respect to the life of Jesus.
It is reported to be an inaccurate translation
I read the alleged reasons behind the inaccuracy of the translation as given by you in the other thread, and to be honest, I found it quite amusing. Let me make things easier, and let us assume the truth of your allegations for arguments sake. So, according to your claims, HIM never stated the clause “I am a mortal”. I’ll give you that, not on account of some concession to an unsubstantiated anonymous Rastafarian claim, but rather on account of the fact it doesn’t change anything with respect to the implications of his answer, because he nonetheless said, “I am a man”, which has the exact same implications as an affirmation of mortality given the context of the interview as I already discussed in my previous post, and which I am not inclined to repeat. Go back and read it again.
Furthermore, why would we need an affirmation of HIM concerning his mortality when it is a historical reality. Where is HIM right now? His body is dust in a grave; he’s dead! What further proof of HIM’s mortality do you need? Come on man, you’re smarter than this. The true Christ is RISEN; he momentarily allowed death to have dominion over himself, however by virtue of His divinity and authority over death He raised Himself from the dead in a glorified body and appeared to all His disciples. The tomb of Christ was empty after three days; the tomb of HIM remains with his bones up until this very day.
In addition, the Emperor granted
Again, I will make this easier for you by granting the truth of your claims along with the implications that follow, just for arguments sake. HIM is not my God, nor was he a heirarch of my Church. Therefore what he does or does not do, has nothing to do with the Orthodox Church, alright? HIM was a bad, bad, rebellious, disobedient, and deluded man. The fact that Orthodoxy, and the Christ that the Church preaches, condemns your blasphemous cult, is an unmoved reality in spite of what HIM did or did not say or do. Does this make things easier for you?
I must say, these do not seem to be deeds designed to discourage the Rasta movement at all.
You’re using faulty logic. Support of Rastafarain people does not mean support for the Rastafarian faith. What don’t you understand about that? You have to learn to distinguish between a people and that people’s faith. HIM may have supported the Rastas for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with what they actually believe. We already know what HIM thought of them with respect to their belief system; he thought them to be misguided, hence the reason he sent Abune Yeshaq to Jamaica in the first place.
In reference to those Rastas baptized into the EOTC, you said that they were living a lie and invalidated their baptism. I disagree.
You have no right or authority to disagree or agree on this matter; you are not a representative of the Orthodox Church to claim that authority or right to speak as to the implications of a heretic manipulating his way into being a member of the Orthodox Church. The teachings of the Church are clear. If one maintains teachings contrary to the teachings of the Church whilst attempting to live the life of the Church, then they are living a LIE; they are living a contradiction. It’s simple logic. It’s like an atheist worshipping Allah at a Mosque.
By virtue of HIM divinity, His Words and Will are also divine.
HIM is a dead man. Do you need to go to his grave and see his physical bones to understand that?
The Church, if She is to accept me, must accept the whole me, not hollow words, spoken lies, and a compromised shallow version of my soul.
You sound like a patient who wants to go to a hospital, but wishes to prescribe his conditions and terms of admission and treatment. How foolish! The Church is a spiritual hospital; your heresy is the cause of spiritual disease. You either come to the hospital to deal with the cause of the disease in order to be treated, or you maintain the cause of the disease and let it slowly kill you; it’s your choice. But to expect the hospital to tolerate the cause of the disease whilst attempting to treat the disease at the same time, is nothing but foolish.
No one is trying to impose Orthodoxy on you. If you want to worship a dead man, that’s your right. Just understand that you have no place in the Orthodox Church if you will not let go of such doctrines; if you want to succumb to the devil’s deceit and manipulate your way into the Church, then you will suffer the judgment of the Almighty. It’s Rastafarianism or Orthodox Christianity, you can’t have both. PERIOD.
Interestingly enough, Christ fulfilled prophecy as the Son of David and is heralded as the Conquering of the Tribe of Judah. Given that Mary was a Levite, this is a tough sell to see Him as the Lion of a tribe of which He was not a member!
You want to dispute the testimony of the Scriptures now? It is not I or any contemporary Church leader that attributes Christ to being of the tribe of Judah, it is the Holy Prophets and the Apostles elected by Christ himself. Micah the Prophet prophesied concerning Christ, saying: “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”
Was HIM born in Bethelehem? Nope. The Judahite prophesied of in this verse, who was to be born in Bethlehem, who would be ruler over Israel, and whose existence was eternal, was none other than Christ Jesus, Son of the Living God.
St. Matthew the Apostle of Christ reiterated Micah’s prophecy saying: “And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.” (Matthew 2:6)
Are you and your leaders so arrogant Rastaman, so as to think you know better than the Holy Prophet Micah, and the Holy Apostle elected by Christ himself, St Matthew? Humble yourselves, for you and your fellow Rastafarians are but ignorants before these great and Holy men of God.
Neither you nor your cult prove any familiarity with the Bible whatsoever, for had you or your cult leaders been well trained in the Scriptures, you would have known that since the days of Joshua the prophet, the tribe of Levi ceased to exist as a distinct tribe, so how can it be said that the blessed St. Mary, who existed more than a millenium after the event, came from this very tribe?
You say He did not judge?? He may not have judged souls , and cast them into a pit of burning fire
Then he did not fulfil the verses regarding Christ’s second coming, since Christ is clearly speaking about judging the souls of the world, and granting them eternal paradise or casting them into eternal fire. Have you actually read the Bible man? It seems like you have no idea regarding what the Biblical Christ taught and preached concerning his second coming.
In fact, the coming of Haile Selassie was a well documented event
So was President Bush’s, and Sadam Hussein’s, the Queen of England’s, and any other historical world leader. Those three are probably more world renowned than HIM is too. What's your point?
And they all bowed before HIM Haile Selassie!
Oh, you mean a bow of respect given to most world leaders, including the Queen of England, or even local authorities like justices and magistrates of courts? Come on man, you're smarter than this.
Where in the Bible does it say that the Messiah is going to return on such and such a date?? Nowhere!
Who said that the Bible pronounces a date for the second coming of Christ? I certainly didn’t; so why are you challenging me to search the Scriptures for such a thing? The Bible explicitly pronounces the fact that Christ will descend from heaven on the clouds of glory to judge the living and the dead, to grant paradise and cast into hell. Sorry, HIM came into this world like any normal human being and died like any normal human being.
You see, this is why no church could ever say that Rastafarians are correct - because you guys were supposed to see it.
You can adopt that fanciful fantasy if you wish, but the plain and simple truth is that the Church would never say Rastafarians are correct because She, being established by the authority of Christ and His Apostles and being inspired by the Holy Spirit, recognises the plain truth that Rastafarians are simply a satanically deceived peoples who have replaced the Almighty God with an idol, namely, a dead powerless man.
But everyone is so busy looking for a blond-haired, blue-eyed Christ to come from the sky
Do you have any serious intellectual arguments to make here, or are you just going to continue wasting our time with this stupidity? No one is looking for anyone with any particular physical appearance—it seems like you just want to start making things up on our behalf now to save face.
Christ is the one who said he will descend from the heavens on the clouds of glory with a multitude of Angels; I’m not making this up, the Church is not making this up. These were his own words. Read the Bible for once—the Bible that the Orthodox Church produced and that she has defended and maintained for the past two thousand years.