OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 27, 2014, 09:27:33 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Divinity of HIM Haile Selassie  (Read 24725 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« on: June 02, 2006, 04:42:27 PM »

Greetings I, Fiqir Bandinet, Satta Massa Ganna,

I really wanted to leave this topic alone.ÂÂ  Seriously, I did.ÂÂ  This is an Orthodox forum, certainly don't want to be reasoning on Rastafarian beliefs.

Nevertheless, I feel that my cotinued prescence here requires that the issue be addressed.ÂÂ  If the thread dies so be it, but if it continues then I will address any questions, debates, points, etc. that are raised.

I also am willing to reason about this on MSN.ÂÂ  I definitely want more Orthodox Christians to talk to on there. CanuckRasta@hotmail.com

To start:

Rev. 5:5, Gen 49:9-10, Isaiah 9:6.

By tradition, Ethiopian rulers, take the title of "King of Kings, Lord of lords, Conquering Lion of the tribe of Judah" as the titles of the throne.ÂÂ  these are the same titles given to the returned Messiah.ÂÂ  The English translation of the name Haile Selassie is Power/Might of the Trinity.

The EOTC has acknowledged that the monarchy was established by Menelik, son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.

One Love
Ras Markos Johannis Binyam
Rastaman and Orthodox Seeker

P.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 04:44:11 PM by Rastaman » Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,428


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2006, 05:45:28 PM »

So....what are you trying to address??? 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2006, 06:12:33 PM »

Fiqir Bandinet,

One of the Ethiopian Orthodox members here, brought back my original thread, in which I addressed the concerns and circumstances of my situation: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=7822.msg122813#new

Bottom line is, I am here for certain reasons, and I dont want to disrupt the forum by being harangued by people saying that I cannot be Orthodox, that HIM Haile Selassie said he wasnt divine, etc. etc.

That is what this thread is for - addressing the issue of his divinity, what I can and cant be.

In the end, however, I answer to God and the Christ, His Only Begotten Son.  Whatever people say, I am that I am.  If it wasn't for Haile Selassie, I would still be atheist.

One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Rastaman and Orthodox Seeker
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Hadel
IN CHRIST
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Jerusalem
Posts: 277


Jesus Christ Our Lord, King of Kings


« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2006, 10:46:53 AM »

Fiqir Bandinet,

One of the Ethiopian Orthodox members here, brought back my original thread, in which I addressed the concerns and circumstances of my situation: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=7822.msg122813#new

Bottom line is, I am here for certain reasons, and I dont want to disrupt the forum by being harangued by people saying that I cannot be Orthodox, that HIM Haile Selassie said he wasnt divine, etc. etc.

That is what this thread is for - addressing the issue of his divinity, what I can and cant be.

In the end, however, I answer to God and the Christ, His Only Begotten Son.ÂÂ  Whatever people say, I am that I am.ÂÂ  If it wasn't for Haile Selassie, I would still be atheist.

One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Rastaman and Orthodox Seeker


All I can say to you is .... God gave us free will and we all have choices in life .... and this includes our choice of religion whether by birth or conversion.

For me, Jesus Christ is the True Son of God who died on the cross two-thousand years ago and then resurrected for our Sins. Jesus is the True Son of God.

I won't speak for the people here at the forum, but most if not all believe this and choose this so why come here .... to convert us? Because our faith is strong and true.

With all do respect; maybe you should carry out your own forum, this might help you in your own beliefs and quests.

In Jesus Christ, My Lord God and Savior
Hadel
Logged

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2006, 03:15:06 AM »

How could he be the Messiah if he flatly denied it?
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2006, 09:50:18 AM »

How could he be the Messiah if he flatly denied it?

1 Thessalonians 5
 1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

A reply to this question from a bredrin:
"A lot of people use the interview answer below to say that Selassie is not Jah. But it is just misinterpretation of his words.

Bill McNeil: "there are millions of Christians throughout the world, your Imperial Majesty, who regard you as the reincarnation of Jesus Christ."
Selassie I: "I had heard of that idea. I also met certain Rastafarians. I told them clearly that 'I am a man,' that 'I am Mortal,' and that 'I would be replaced by the oncoming generation, and that they should never make a mistake in assuming or pretending that the human being is emanated from a deity.'"

When I look at RasTafarI's answer, this is how I Iverstand it. He showed the people that he is a man, and will be replaced by the oncoming generation. Selassie I was born of mother and father, just like I and I, so he didn't come out (emanate) of God, any more than I and I.
Notice that he said that a human cannot emanate from God, but he never said that a human cannot be God. I and I can be God, but only by being One with Jah. I and I can't be God separate from Jah, as two gods. But I and I can only join with Jah, to be One with him, as One God.
Selassie lives by the example of Christ, so he became One with Jah by his destiny and livity. And all of I and I can also be One with Jah, by I and I livity. Selassie I said that "we should never make a mistake in assuming or pretending that the human being is emanated from a deity". This statement shows I that no man, not even the Son of Man Jesus Christ, emanated (or came out) from God. Jesus Christ was born of his mother Mary, and by his destiny and livity became One with Jah.
Jah first sent Jesus Christ born from a virgin, to show I and I the way to live. But afterwards, people made the excuse that they can't live without sin, or be One with Jah. They made the excuse that because Jesus was born differently, that it was possible for him to live this way, but not for us, because we are born from mother and father.
So Jah sent RasTafarI to I and I, to show I and I the way to live. Haile Selassie I was born of mother and father, just like I and I, so we no longer have the excuse that we can't live without sin and be One with Jah. If Selassie I can be born like I and I, and still live without sin and be One with Jah, then I and I can do the same.
So I and I should know that it is not about I and I coming out of God, to be One with Jah. But it is about I and I going to God, to be One with Jah. And I and I go to God, by living in His way, and listening to His instruction, and joining ourselves with the Most High.
Jah RasTafarI is One with Jah, and like I already said about One. One is One in completeness, no separation, and no parts. And I and I are supposed to be One with Jah also, this is the way to reach Zion, because no sin shall not enter in.

Jah Liveth Itinually,

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I"

Much less than a flat denial!

Fiqir Bandinet
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Rastaman and Orthodox Seeker
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2006, 02:10:35 PM »

Haven`t we recently had a thread dealing with this pseudo-religion? I have tried for the most part to stay out of this but considering the allure rastafari has amongst the young in America I feel a need this address this heresy.
 I grew my locks for twenty-five years ,spent a lot of time in Jamaica "reasoning" with many "elders" of the "faith". I met many God fearing rastas who are in essence Christians by the way they live. Most of these individuals live more or less as monks in the countryside. They keep to themselves and survive with what God gives them.ÂÂ  May God bless them and keep them. That being said.......................
 Rastaman: If Selassie truly was the second coming of Christ , Why is it that ( particularly in Jamaica) individuals who renounce this heresy are routinely threatened with death? Do the followers of this religion sound like they worship a God of Mercy and Tolerance ? Fear and intimidation are the tools used to keep most "Rastas" from deserting this cult. This is a FACT . I`ve seen it time and time again.Bob marley himself tryed to convert to Orthodoxy multiple times during his life but was pressured (threatened) and did not convert until shortly before his death when death threats no longer had any meaning. And I challenge you to produce evidence to the contrary.
 If Selassie was God , would not he want all people to come to him and would he not appoint representatives(Bishops) to accomplish this?ÂÂ  Why then is racism rampant amongst the various sect of Rastafari?
Twelve Tribes , Nyabingi, Bobo dread ...etc. all REAK from head to toe of Black Nationalism and in fact Rasta is nothing more than an extention of Garveyism from the 1920`s.
The Bible is a book that anyone can twist to make it mean anything they want. That is why in Orthodoxy we have Our Holy Fathers and Holy Tradition to prevent such errors.
 Here it is in plain English for you bro: Selassie never was , never will be,and never claimed to be Christ.
That is why upon his return to Ethiopia after his 1962 visit to Jamaica, he instructed the Patriarch of the Ethiopian Coptic church to go to Jamaica to establish Coptic Orthodox churches and to explain to the Jamaican people that he ( Selassie) was the defender of the faith of his forefathers (Orthodoxy) and not Christ. But did the rastas listen , no.ÂÂ  Why? Because they insist that Selassie is the fulfilment of Marcus Garveys` false prophecy of a "black king rising in the east". Again , Black Nationalism pure and simple.
 One more thing . POT AS A SACREMENT? Nowhere is scripture is marijuana listed as a sacrament. This issue above all others is what makes this cult so dangerous and alluring to young people and needs to be called out for flat out LIE that it is. Smoke enough and all rasta "theology" starts to make sense.
 I would end this by saying that Rastas are nothing more than a bunch of pot smoking ,heretical,protestants but I would be insulting all protestants.ÂÂ  
 It`s a bunch of pot smoking , brain washed , cultists.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2006, 04:20:16 PM by Mo the Ethio » Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2006, 08:24:02 AM »

I know JAH and He's not a deceased African ruler who was himself an Orthodox Christian:

Sing unto God,
sing praises to his name:
extol him that rideth upon the heavens
by his name JAH,
and rejoice before him.
Psalm 68:4

As both a fellow Orthodox Christian to Hali Selassie and a former pothead, I find your promotion of the Rastafarian cult to be offensive.

Peace.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 08:24:29 AM by Matthew777 » Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2006, 05:04:17 PM »

Promotion?? Promotion?? When did I ever promote anything??

I am just a man who lives life, by the will of JAH. I don't put my trust in men, or books, or words.

You think its a cult, and find it offensive.  Good.  I am happy for you.  You have made your decision, I have made mine, we will be judged by the Most High accordingly.

What does being a "former pothead" have to do with Rastafari??

With regards to allegations of death threats, I can only say that there are so many fake rastas out there who wish to turn the movement for their own purposes.  Rasta is not a thing you convert to or from, you are either in it from creation or not at all.

I have NEVER, NEVER in almost three years been forced to do anything by another Rasta against my will.  I have not been brainwashed, abused, coerced, or had anything demanded of me (money or anything else).

It is true that many discouraged Bob Marley from being baptized into the the EOTC, because of this he was baptized in new York and not Jamaica. To say that he ever denied the divinity of Haile Selassie, would be wrong, because there is no evidence to show whether or not he did.  And many rastas are baptized into the EOTC, without denying the divinity of HIM.

Racism is not rampant among Rastas! There are some who believe that it is at its heart a Black Liberation movement.  But I know caucasian members from all three major house in Rasta.  I am white myself, and in addition, I work for a rasta organization where at least three Head Council members are white.  Bob Marley was half white and had children with women who were white.  Racism is against the words of HIM and cannot be supported by any true Rasta:
"that until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned;...WAR!"

Oh yeah, and his visit to Jamaica was in 1966.

For the record, I have never smoked pot.  I dont approve of it.  Mutabaruka, and Lucky Dube, both Rasta reggae artists, have gone on record against the use of marijuana.

One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Zoe
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 450



« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2006, 05:09:06 PM »

lol, sorry, I find it funny that an artist named "Lucky Dube" would go on record against marijuana use...haha
Logged

NI!!!!!!
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2006, 05:11:48 PM »

lol, sorry, I find it funny that an artist named "Lucky Dube" would go on record against marijuana use...haha

Lol, he is from South Africa, that is his real name.
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2006, 05:31:38 PM »



With regards to allegations of death threats, I can only say that there are so many fake rastas out there who wish to turn the movement for their own purposes.ÂÂ  Rasta is not a thing you convert to or from, you are either in it from creation or not at all.









One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Dread...you know many years I listened to that retoric? MANY MANY...MANY MANY MANY MANY.
As I stated in my post ,there are rastas that live in the hills that truely have the grace of God about them. They are not members of a "movement" ...they simply live and live simply. But do you know how many gangsters and murdersput on a turban go to bobo hill to hide? To quote Jr. Reid " because all bobo dem like the same!!"  Rasta is NOT a religon. There are no Hierarchs ,no priests ,nothing. Do you know how many "old school rastas" have cut their locks and converted to Orthodoxy because they realized they were worshiping a man and not God?  I don`t have enough time or space to list them all . Many are my close personal friends.
Santa ( drummer with Peter Tosh and Soul syndicate) echos the sentiments of them all.." Dread, you must worship God and not man"
Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2006, 05:40:58 PM »

Promotion?? Promotion?? When did I ever promote anything??





It is true that many discouraged Bob Marley from being baptized into the the EOTC, because of this he was baptized in new York and not Jamaica. To say that he ever denied the divinity of Haile Selassie, would be wrong, because there is no evidence to show whether or not he did.ÂÂ  And many rastas are baptized into the EOTC, without denying the divinity of HIM.





One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
To say Bob Marley did not deny the divinity of Haile Selassie is patently false. He did so when he put on Christ at his baptism.
 Does the EOTC allow it`s members to worship Christ and Selassie? If so, they are heretics and schismatic and clearly outside of either EO or OO and thus NOT Orthodox.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 05:41:39 PM by Mo the Ethio » Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2006, 09:27:40 AM »

Blessed Love,

The official position of the EOTC outside the Caribbean is expressly against "emperor worship".  I have heard a rumour that a former patriarch did support how we read the bible, not confirmed.  I do know several Rastas that are baptized EOTC WITHOUT denying HIM divinity.  I am not responsible for the policy of the EOTC with regards to this.

If you have any recordings of Bob and Bob alone sayiong that he doesn't see HIM as divine, then bring it forward.  Otherwise, you can't prove anything.

One
Ras Markos Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,428


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2006, 09:52:31 AM »

Rastaman,

Not knowing too much about your culture I appologize if I say anything objectionable.  But I think that your experiences with Rastaman culture/religion have been in a possibly unique way.  Or even in a possibly "good" way.  Others have experienced the bad, and possibly "true"/"truth" of Rastaman culture. 

I think that Mo the Ethio has presented good points about historical factors in Rastaman culture, its beginings, and faults with its "theological" ideas.  You still have not addressed these to anyones satisfaction.  If you could sit down and maybe address his points, one by one, I think we would all benefit and dialogue might be more reasonable.....just a thought...
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 05:21:29 PM »

Fiqir Bandinet,

Let’s try it this way.  Mo the Ethio has made the following points:

 1.  The RasTafari movement has used death threats against members who have “renounced the heresy” of HIM Haile Selassie as the Second Coming of Christ.
 2.  Fear and intimidation are used to entrap members into the movement, and to prevent them from leaving.
 3.  Bob Marley “converted” to Orthodoxy against threats of harm and death, and denied the divinity of His Imperial Majesty.
 4.  Haile Selassie did not appoint representatives and did not wish for all people to come to HIM.
 5.  Racism is rampant among all houses of RasTafarI and indeed RasTafarI is nothing more than Black Nationalism.


My response:
 1.  It is not unheard of for death threats to present within the movement.  I know of one individual who has had several such tactics used against him, and in addition he has had his room ransacked and has lost several computers due to intentional computer viruses directed at him.  This is all because of the work he does in the movement, it is an internal matter, and is not related in anyway to disagreements on theology.  On the other hand, what about Dominica in the 1980s, when the Rastafari community was labeled against a pervasive influence in society.  We had our civil rights stripped from us, and if I had been there, anyone could walk up to me, in public, put a bullet in my head, and their action would be entirely within the law.  20 years ago! Or what about the Rastas in England, where several have been assaulted and beaten up, to the point where they had dreadlocks RIPPED out of their head.
 2.  This answer continues from the one above as well.  The former leader (he passed on last year) of the largest and most organized section of the RasTafari movement, the Twelve Tribes of Israel, stated on national Jamaican radio, in 1997, that Haile Selassie was not God.  I fail to see how it is possible for a movement to use fear and intimidation tactics against those of its members who believe something, which its largest division advocates as truth.
 3.  Bob Marley, was baptized into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.  Your argument is based on the fact that the EOTC requires Rastas to deny the divinity of HIM Haile Selassie.  I know, and have spoken to at least 4 members of the EOTC who believe His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie is divine and are active members of the EOTC.  If they agree, I can provide you or anyone else who asks with their contact information, in private.  You have nothing from Bob Marley, no recordings, no quotes, no written statements to state anything other than he thought that Haile Selassie was divine.  Two people have stated that Bob Marley “converted” — one, His Holiness Abuna Yeshaq, whose personal mission it was to show Rastas the “truth”, and one of Bob Marley’s backup singers.
Yet what you failed to address was the following: HIM Haile Selassie corresponded personally with Bob Marley, the Bob Marley was given Haile Selassie’s Lion of Judah ring after the emperor passed on, and that the Imperial Family of Ethiopia has openly participated and spoken at events held by the Rasta movement.  Indeed, they even defended the Rasta movement’s right to use the images and words of Him without infringing on any copyright.

(to be continued)

One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,722


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2006, 11:55:13 PM »

There was another discussion:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=6965.0

God bless.

Mina
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2006, 12:23:21 AM »

Give thanks for that Mina.

I do know the Ras who started that thread.  I do not think he will be back, therefore if idren wish, they may highlight questions left unaddressed by him - or me for that matter.

Over the next few days, I will be going over that thread, hopefully I can clear things up.

One
Ras Markos Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Zoe
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 450



« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2006, 01:48:25 AM »

I don't quite know what your point is for trying to "clear things up".  By all means, elaborate on your beliefs, but are you expecting us to all of a sudden say "oh! you're right! ok, time to be rastafarian!"?

They are not compatiable with the teachings of the Orthodox Church, and I don't see what your goal is here.
Logged

NI!!!!!!
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2006, 03:56:19 AM »

Rastaman,

There are two issues that need to be addressed here:

1)   The fact there can be no reconciliation whatsoever between Orthodox Dogmatic Theology and Rastafarian emperor/man-worship.
2)   An honest interpretation of HIM’s response to the Rastafarian perception of him, and hence his integrity as an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian.

The second clause of the second point is fundamental, because despite the fact I believe HIM to have been an honest and faithful Oriental Orthodox Christian who would never have thought of blasphemously attempting to usurp the glory and honour due to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit alone, you must realise that HIM is not the arbiter of Truth; rather, the Orthodox Church is, and hence the Orthodox Church dictates the standard by which HIM is to be measured. In this respect, by virtue of 1), even if we were to assume for arguments sake that HIM ever gave any sort of a hint of approval of the Rastafarian conception of him, he would necessarily have to be deemed a liar.

In your first post on this forum you stated:

Quote
I do not want to abandon Rastafari, but the teachings of my God and King point me towards Orthodoxy.

I urge you to consider in honesty and humility all that has been said to you thus far, and to respond positively to your divinely inspired inclinations towards Orthodoxy. Realise however, that an honest embrace of Orthodoxy will necessitate the rejection and disavowel of your Rastafarian doctrine; they’re mutually exclusive. You have suggested elsewhere that you personally know of certain individuals who were baptised into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church whilst maintaining their allegiance to HIM as to a god. I have no reason to doubt the honesty of your personal account, but allow me to say quite bluntly that these individuals are living a lie, and they have blasphemed their Orthodox baptism. Their culpability may be increased or reduced relative to their intent, knowledge and will, as well as the role the Ethiopian priests in question may have played in allowing such a misfortunate incident to occur, but the ultimate truth and reality is that the Sacrament of Baptism is the putting on of Christ and hence an embrace of His Truth that is encompassed by the Orthodox Church; The Truth that directly opposes the Rastafarian conception of HIM.

Quote
By tradition, Ethiopian rulers, take the title of "King of Kings, Lord of lords, Conquering Lion of the tribe of Judah" as the titles of the throne;


Ethiopian emperors inherit the above title by tradition (as you admit). It thus signifies nothing with respect to their ontological nature or their individual personal identity, but rather their earthly imperial position/function. To say that it does is to misunderstand Ethiopian culture; the very misunderstanding HIM expressly appointed Archbishop Yeshaq to correct upon his visit to Jamaica.

Quote
these are the same titles given to the returned Messiah.

So what? What kind of logic or reason would compel you to draw the outlandish conclusion that the emperors of Ethiopia must therefore be re-incarnations of Christ?

Furthermore, how can HIM be the “returned Messiah” when a) he spoke of the Crucified Messiah as an independent person to whom his own faith was due, b) he died, whereas the Resurrected Messiah is immortal, even in His Humanity, and c) he fulfilled nothing that even closely resembled the Bibilically depicted return of the Messiah as understood within the Tradition of the Orthodox Church.

Quote
The English translation of the name Haile Selassie is Power/Might of the Trinity.

Most, if not all, Ethiopian Orthodox Christians bear such names as a symbolic honour of their Christian Faith. The Jews likewise bore such symbolic names indicative of a certain attribute or characteristic of God. HIM is merely honouring the Holy Trinity by adopting it as his name.

Quote
He showed the people that he is a man… Selassie I was born of mother and father… he never said that a human cannot be God.

Notice the context of HIM’s response; he is asserting that he is a mere man and mortal in response to the Rastafarian conception of him. Evidently therefore, considering his words in the immediate context of the interview itself, he is asserting himself as a man and mortal contrary to the Rastafarian view, thus implicitly yet clearly denying the Rastafarian conception of him by virtue of their false divine characterisation of him, regardless of any admission on their behalf of his simultaneous humanity. He is thus essentially claiming mere humanity.

This is the only honest way to interpret HIM’s words. Listen to the Scriptures that HIM honoured: “Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground” (Psalm. 146:3-4)

Onto the more important issue however, which relates to point 1) as stipulated in my introduction. Can a human be God according to Orthodox Christianity? Well, certainly not in the sense that you describe:

Quote
I and I can be God, but only by being One with Jah. I and I can't be God separate from Jah, as two gods. But I and I can only join with Jah, to be One with him, as One God.

According to Orthodox Christianity, we have the potential to achieve the likeness of God by His Grace, but we certainly cannot be as He is by nature. There are only Three Persons that co-exist in the One existence of God, and that thus share the Divine Nature: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Period.

We do not become fourth, fifth, sixth, and so on members of the Godhead. To believe so is utterly incompatible with dogmatic Orthodox Theology. It is not open for question or debate. You must make your choice. Either you recognise the One True God, and submit to Him through His Holy Church and reap the benefits of this: being in His Image and Likeness, or you keep worshipping a mere man who expressly denied the perception you maintain of him in the false hope that Satan himself once held i.e. the hope to become God in nature, and reap the consequences of this: eternal death.

Quote
This statement shows I that no man, not even the Son of Man Jesus Christ, emanated (or came out) from God. Jesus Christ was born of his mother Mary, and by his destiny and livity became One with Jah.

This one statement involves principles pertinent to heresies anathematised by each and every one of the Three Ecumenical Councils of the Oriental Orthodox Church. The metaphysical Person and hence fundamental identity of the historical Christ, The Word, pre-existed His Incarnation eternally as God. As we say in the Nicaean Creed, He was “begotten of the Father before all ages…God out of God...” Christ was eternally One with the Father, as the Gospel of St John says: “In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God”; in other words: before the existence of time (and hence in eternity), the Word co-existed with the Father, yet was One with the Father for He shared in His Divinity.

Christ did not become One with the Father; He eternally was and is One with the Father.

Simply put, no one can "become" God; such a notion directly contradicts a fundamental attribute of God's very nature: eternal immutability.

Quote
They made the excuse that because Jesus was born differently, that it was possible for him to live this way, but not for us, because we are born from mother and father.

According to Orthodox Dogma, the reason Christ was sinless was by virtue of the union between His Divinity and Humanity, and this very union itself was only possible according to a Virgin birth. Thus, the above statement makes very little sense within the framework of Orthodox doctrine.

Quote
The official position of the EOTC outside the Caribbean is expressly against "emperor worship".


The official position of the EOTC is not geographically relative. The Dogma of the Church as expressed through her Tradition which encompasses the Scriptures, the Fathers, and the Councils, expressly denies the worship of anything or anyone other than The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The official position of the EOC on dogmatic issues can be read upon at the following link:

http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/maindoctrines/thefivemysteries.htm







Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2006, 03:59:18 AM »

Quote
but are you expecting us to all of a sudden say "oh! you're right! ok, time to be rastafarian!"?

I don't think his aim is to convert anyone. I think he genuinly seeks Orthodoxy but is trying to find some middle-road whereby he can become Orthodox yet maintain elements of his Rastafarian faith. As my above post has attempted to prove, that is an impossible thing to do (that is, if one seeks to live an honest Orthodox life).
Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
SouthSerb99
Archbishop of Shlivo, Patriarch of All Vodkas & Defender Against All Overstepping!
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 2,800


Now Internet Forum Friendly


WWW
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2006, 08:54:33 AM »

Just as with the last time a similar thread like this was started, I find the subject fascinating.

EA,

    As usual, a brilliant and very informative response.  Thank you.

Rastaman,

    By all means, keep up the debate, it is intriguing.
Logged

"Wherever you go, there you are."
 Guy from my office

Orthodox Archbishopric of Ohrid
Hungry? Click Here
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2006, 11:53:28 PM »

Fiqir Bandinet,

Excellent post EA.

I won't respond to your comments to the statement I reposted from my bredrin.  I have heard the English translation of Haile Selassie's response has been called into question.  I do not wish to remark on this allegation, I don't know Amharic, and would have a biased opinion anyways.  Until a fluent Amharic speaker that is neither Rasta nor Christian Orthodox can provide commentary, I will reserve any judgments.

Because this has taken a bit longer to write then I wanted, I am hoping to get to your other comments tomorrow.

I do wish to clarify one thing.  For many outsiders to the movement, they fall into this trap of generalizing what we believe.  Rastafari does not work like Orthodoxy for the exact reasons that Mo the Ethio outlined - we do not have the same organizational structure.  We lack the organized churches, dioceses, archdioceses, bishops, deacons, patriarchs etc. etc.  In rare cases we do have elders that are highly raspected, but they have no "authority" per se, they are simply those idren who have given enough of their life to the movement, living the livity.

Thus here it is, my personal Statement of Belief:
InI hold that His Most Imperial Majesty, Janhoy Qedamawi Hayle Silase, Negus Nagast, Negus Nagast, Moa Anbesa Ze'imnegede Yehuda, Sehumi Igzeeabhier is the Almighty.  He is the 225th representative of the Solomonid Dynasty in Ethiopia.  This can be derived from the 2nd Article of the 1955 Constitution of Ethiopia: “The Imperial Dignity shall remain perpetually attached to the line of Haile Sellassie I, descendant of King Sahle Sellassie, whose line descends without interruption from the dynasty of Menelik I, son of the Queen of Ethiopia, the Queen of Sheba, and King Solomon of Jerusalem.”  Additionally, the chapters 24-32 of the Kebra Nagast, “The Glory of the Kings” support this claim. The Kebra Nagast also relates how the son of Solomon, Menelik I, brought the Ark of the Covenant to Ethiopia (ch. 45, 46, 48).  The accounts detailed in the Kebra Nagast are fully supported as being historically accurate by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church under Abuna Paulos — as well as the Patriarchate in Exile under Abuna Merkorios.  The Imperial Family of Ethiopia is also in total agreement and support of these claims.
The Davidic Covenant has revealed the Imperial Dynasty of Ethiopia as the rightful rulers of JAH Creation.  (2nd Samuel 7, 2nd Chronicles 13:5,8).  As such the returned Messiah is of the “root of David” (Rev. 5:5).  Thus the Messiah of Revelation MUST be from the line of Menelik.  In addition, by tradition the Emperors of Ethiopia bear the titles identical to that of the Messiah (Rev. 2-5:5; Rev. 19:16).
The baptismal name of Ras Tafari Makonnen, Haile Selassie, translates to Power of the Trinity.  This baptismal name has only been bestowed on ONE person in the history of the EOTC.  There is only one Power of the Trinity, that is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, One Triune God.

Ras Markos Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2006, 11:54:46 PM »

FULL STOP

The following has not been confirmed from any source outside the Rastafari movement.

“Queer tales began to circulate about Tafari’s boyhood, the most notable concerning his supposed ability to speak to animals. During his youth it was claimed he had, on several occasions been seen conversing in the bush with leopards and lions, the fierce jungle beast becoming docile at his feet.
Further, it was said that as a young student, Tafari was quite bright, competent at his lessons, but that he had truly astounded the priest with the depth of his knowledge concerning religious and mystical matters not only could he quote freely from the book of Kufale, the book of Inoch, The Shepherd of Hermas, Judith, Ecclesiasticus, Tobit, The Matshafa Berhan (Book of Light), The Sixth and Sevent books of Moses, the book of Eden (Secretly deleted from Genesis during the dark ages), all thirty-one books of the Hebrew Bible, the twenty-one Canonical books of the New Testament but numerous Apocryphal and Pseudepigrahic books.
One priest asked Tafari where he got his knowledge. Tafari replied that much of it had come to him at the moment of his baptism, conducted according to tradition on the fortieth day of his life. The priest who presided at the ceremony had opened Tafari’s eyes with the first touch of holy Chrism that everything that ensued was a comprehensible to the infant as if he had been an adult. The priest pronounced his surname he remembered and next his baptismal name and then he blew softly in Tafari’s face to drive off the evil spirits. At that instant Tafari claimed he felt himself enveloped by a golden glow and as the priest began to anoint him, water touching his forehead, breast, shoulder and all of the other thirty-seven prescribed places, he felt his knowledge increase filling him up like a vessel and endowing him with a great sense of clarity about creation and the final purpose of man.
When the birds and the beasts and even the insects began to greet him and speak to him, reminding him of what he already knew, Tafari replied, "Which was the first creature to speak to him".
Tafari requested a sheet of paper and some pastels and began to draw with extraordinary facility, a picture of a bird. It resembled a dove, but with exotic, multicoloured plumage. The priest was about to ask Tafari what sort of bird it was when he was dumbfounded as it flew out through the nearby window disappearing into the sky.
The chief priest arranged meetings with him to question and perhaps catch him with what he supposed might be blasphemous mischief or pagan magic.
At one of these meetings Rastafari is said to have made it plain that he was well acquainted with the rare manuscripts of Abba Aragaive and the other Coptic monks known as the Nine "Saints", who entered Ethiopia in 480 A.D. and founded the first monasteries in Tigre province. He also revealed that he was acquainted with the occult applications of Urim and thummin and the Mezuzah as well as the use of the magic word Gematria and Notarilon in Egypt Necromancy and also of the magical names writing of Gilgamesh. The pagan rituals surrounded the worship of Isis of the serpent Arwe and of the Abyssinian Gods of earth (Meder) sea, (Beher) and war (Mahrem) as well as the Arcana of astrology and numerology. but most importantly Tafari exhibited to the priest his understanding of the central messages in the Egyptian book of the dead and the Egyptian book of two ways.
At one point an old abmnet (Abbot) allegedly asked to examine Tafari s palms. he saw that there were Shgmata there and the lifeline back upon itself in an emblem of infinity, Tafari whispered a word in the abbot’s ear and all colour drained from the old man s face. He left the room apparently in shock, refusing to return or to speak with his colleagues.
Tafari addressed a monk who served in the Cathedral of Azum, where the ark is kept. Tafari described to him in Kushed the Kedusta Kedussan, the Holy of Holies or inner sanctum where the Tabot - The Ark - is kept and recited various inscriptions written upon it. Close to fainting with the shock of what Tafari was disclosing, the monk is said to have covered his ears to shut out these blasphemous revelations and he and the rest of the priests hurriedly dispersed.
Later they made a solemn pact among themselves to do everything within their means to keep the young Tafari from ever gaining power in the land as he was considered too dangerous, dangerous beyond belief."

One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,428


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2006, 10:10:42 AM »

Quote
The Davidic Covenant

You know, for a minute there I was like "how the heck did a serbian guy end up in Ethiopia?"  and then I realized that it was talking about DAVID.  Like the OT guy.... Wink 

A few questions: 

Quote
The Davidic Covenant has revealed the Imperial Dynasty of Ethiopia as the rightful rulers of JAH Creation.  (2nd Samuel 7, 2nd Chronicles 13:5,8).  As such the returned Messiah is of the “root of David” (Rev. 5:5).  Thus the Messiah of Revelation MUST be from the line of Menelik.

I'm sorry maybe my Bible isn't the same as yours (NKJ) but in those verses I didn't see any kind of Imperial Dynasty of Ethiopia, nor are they righful rulers of JAH creation.  In fact, JAH creation isn't in there at all...so i'm not sure what you're talking about here. 

The root is not the same as the the actual tree my friend.  Are you basing your assumptions on a historically shaky line of OT figures to the present?  Combined with EXTREMELY unorthodox interpretation?  Cuz you know, Arch-heretics and Gnostics did that too....
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
SouthSerb99
Archbishop of Shlivo, Patriarch of All Vodkas & Defender Against All Overstepping!
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 2,800


Now Internet Forum Friendly


WWW
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2006, 11:06:45 AM »

Brate, if he were one of ours, he would have been Давидовиц.  Tongue
Logged

"Wherever you go, there you are."
 Guy from my office

Orthodox Archbishopric of Ohrid
Hungry? Click Here
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2006, 12:33:09 AM »

serb1389, could you just clarify the second part of your post.

How I read it is that you are saying that the Bible dooes not support the claim that the Imperial Dynasty of Ethiopia is descended from King Solomon and holds the Davidic Covenant??

One Love
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2006, 01:13:47 AM »

FULL STOP

The following has not been confirmed from any source outside the Rastafari movement.

“Queer tales began to circulate about Tafari’s boyhood, the most notable concerning his supposed ability to speak to animals. During his youth it was claimed he had, on several occasions been seen conversing in the bush with leopards and lions, the fierce jungle beast becoming docile at his feet.
Further, it was said that as a young student, Tafari was quite bright, competent at his lessons, but that he had truly astounded the priest with the depth of his knowledge concerning religious and mystical matters not only could he quote freely from the book of Kufale, the book of Inoch, The Shepherd of Hermas, Judith, Ecclesiasticus, Tobit, The Matshafa Berhan (Book of Light), The Sixth and Sevent books of Moses, the book of Eden (Secretly deleted from Genesis during the dark ages), all thirty-one books of the Hebrew Bible, the twenty-one Canonical books of the New Testament but numerous Apocryphal and Pseudepigrahic books.
One priest asked Tafari where he got his knowledge. Tafari replied that much of it had come to him at the moment of his baptism, conducted according to tradition on the fortieth day of his life. The priest who presided at the ceremony had opened Tafari’s eyes with the first touch of holy Chrism that everything that ensued was a comprehensible to the infant as if he had been an adult. The priest pronounced his surname he remembered and next his baptismal name and then he blew softly in Tafari’s face to drive off the evil spirits. At that instant Tafari claimed he felt himself enveloped by a golden glow and as the priest began to anoint him, water touching his forehead, breast, shoulder and all of the other thirty-seven prescribed places, he felt his knowledge increase filling him up like a vessel and endowing him with a great sense of clarity about creation and the final purpose of man.
When the birds and the beasts and even the insects began to greet him and speak to him, reminding him of what he already knew, Tafari replied, "Which was the first creature to speak to him".
Tafari requested a sheet of paper and some pastels and began to draw with extraordinary facility, a picture of a bird. It resembled a dove, but with exotic, multicoloured plumage. The priest was about to ask Tafari what sort of bird it was when he was dumbfounded as it flew out through the nearby window disappearing into the sky.
The chief priest arranged meetings with him to question and perhaps catch him with what he supposed might be blasphemous mischief or pagan magic.
At one of these meetings Rastafari is said to have made it plain that he was well acquainted with the rare manuscripts of Abba Aragaive and the other Coptic monks known as the Nine "Saints", who entered Ethiopia in 480 A.D. and founded the first monasteries in Tigre province. He also revealed that he was acquainted with the occult applications of Urim and thummin and the Mezuzah as well as the use of the magic word Gematria and Notarilon in Egypt Necromancy and also of the magical names writing of Gilgamesh. The pagan rituals surrounded the worship of Isis of the serpent Arwe and of the Abyssinian Gods of earth (Meder) sea, (Beher) and war (Mahrem) as well as the Arcana of astrology and numerology. but most importantly Tafari exhibited to the priest his understanding of the central messages in the Egyptian book of the dead and the Egyptian book of two ways.
At one point an old abmnet (Abbot) allegedly asked to examine Tafari s palms. he saw that there were Shgmata there and the lifeline back upon itself in an emblem of infinity, Tafari whispered a word in the abbot’s ear and all colour drained from the old man s face. He left the room apparently in shock, refusing to return or to speak with his colleagues.
Tafari addressed a monk who served in the Cathedral of Azum, where the ark is kept. Tafari described to him in Kushed the Kedusta Kedussan, the Holy of Holies or inner sanctum where the Tabot - The Ark - is kept and recited various inscriptions written upon it. Close to fainting with the shock of what Tafari was disclosing, the monk is said to have covered his ears to shut out these blasphemous revelations and he and the rest of the priests hurriedly dispersed.
Later they made a solemn pact among themselves to do everything within their means to keep the young Tafari from ever gaining power in the land as he was considered too dangerous, dangerous beyond belief."

One
Ras Markos Yohannis Binyam
OK...so this has been confirmed from sources WITHIN the Rasta movement. These are clearly creditable . Roll Eyes NOT!!
Where do you get this drivel ? The Da Vinci code carries more weight than this sorry ass crap.
If you you going to base your arguement on some fairytale ,I am not going to waste my time addressing your claims .
Do your homework then get back with me. Then it`s going to be time to get on the bus ...because I`m going to take you school.           
Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2006, 02:31:12 AM »

4.ÂÂ  Haile Selassie did not appoint representatives and did not wish for all people to come to HIM.

Of course not! He flatly denied being the Messiah in the first place!  Roll Eyes
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Sloga
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 830



« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2006, 07:33:38 PM »

Brate, if he were one of ours, he would have been Давидовиц.  Tongue

Hehehehhe...for those of you that dont know, in latin Давидовиц is Davidovic (Did you mispell that last letter SS99?), but the last c being pronounced ts. Now what caught my eye is that Davidovits was a real person. He explains how the pyramids of egypt were built, with a very intriguing theory  Roll Eyes

With regards to this topic, please do not be offended and dont offend Rastaman. I have been in contact with him and his interest in Orthodoxy is genuine. He is not "advertising" rastafari beliefs, the man's just asking some questions  Smiley

Although I will not partake much in this topic, I do wish to also agree that for those rastas who were baptized, they are lying to the faith, possibly both faiths. I also find it very hard to be something in between, but Rastaman, didnt you mention something over MSN about a EOTC
that broke off and mixed into Rastafarianism somehow?

Sloga
Logged

Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2006, 09:52:08 PM »

A devoutly Orthodox Christian ruler who is now worshipped as a false messiah? I don't mean to offend anyone, but "JAH Rastafari" must be shedding tears in Heaven over this.
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,722


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2006, 01:11:50 AM »

Dear Rastaman,

You have to get a grip of reality.  HIM was a very devout Orthodox Christian and served Christ and the Church very well, especially in trying to bring about more union between Oriental Orthodox churches.  He was also a great friend to the beloved saint Pope Abba Kyrillos VI, and many other Orthodox patriarchs.  He clearly denied being the Christ or God in a recorded interview for everyone to listen.  He sent HH Abune Yesehaq to convert Rastas like yourself who are deceived into believing that HIM is either God or Christ reincarnated.

Trust me, dear friend.  I understand you are devoted to HIM, but HIM does not want you to be devoted to him in that manner.  You can ask to pray for him as he prays for us all, but he was a Christian and a normal human being in the grace of God like anyone else.  When Christ was asked when He was God, He never said "No."  He never lied, He never feared to even give Himself the title the "I AM."  He never stopped people from worshipping Him.  HIM Haille Sellasie denied being Christ, denied being the "I AM," and denied being worshipped to.  He served the Orthodox Church, and in the Church, we believe there is only one Christ who came once before and will come again on Judgment Day.  To him or her that believes otherwise, they are not only un-Orthodox, but not even Christian.

God bless you dear friend.

Mina
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2006, 01:23:57 AM »

Of course not! He flatly denied being the Messiah in the first place!ÂÂ  Roll Eyes

So, that's it.  He flatly denied being the Messiah.  In that case, I think a couple thousand homeless in New York City alone must be Christ returned, I mean they claim that they are.  No, wait that's not right.

So if he claims to be the Messiah, he isn't, and if he does claim he isn't.  Having the lineage isnt enough, having the titles isnt enough, having the Sceptre isnt enough, having the Ark of the Covenant isnt enough, being a Defender of the Orthodox Faith isnt enough.  So WHAT is enough??

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." - 1 Thes. 5:2

Iyesos was the Messiah, and said He was.  How many people have heard, are hearing, and will hear the Word, and still not sight up the Truth??

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." - John 20:29

Must you "see in his hands the print of the nails, and put [your] finger into the print of the nails, and thrust [your] hand into his side" to believe??

"Today man sees all his hopes and aspirations crumbling before him. He is perplexed and knows not whither he is drifting. But he must realise that the Bible is his refuge, and the rallying point for all humanity. In it man will find the solution of his present difficulties and guidance for his future action, and unless he accepts with clear conscience the Bible and its great Message, he cannot hope for salvation. For my part I glory in the Bible." - HIM Haile Selassie

One
Ras Markos Binyam
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2006, 01:46:18 AM »

So, that's it.  He flatly denied being the Messiah.

I could not resist posting the following quotes from "The Life of Brian" at this point:

Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!
Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!

*******

Brian: I am NOT the Messiah!
Arthur: I say you are Lord, and I should know. I've followed a few.

*******


Brian's mother: He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!

*******

Brian: Please, please, please listen! I've got one or two things to say.
The Crowd: (in unison) Tell us! Tell us both of them!
Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!
The Crowd: (in unison) Yes! We're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
The Crowd: (in unison) Yes, we ARE all different!
Man in crowd: I'm not...
The Crowd: (in unison) Sshhhh!
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Amdetsion
Worship God with all thy strength and all thy might
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Patriarchate; Addis Abebe Ethiopia
Posts: 931


HH Abuna Pawlos - Patriarch of Ethiopia


« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2006, 03:18:25 AM »

Rastaman

You are trying to argue very schismatic and non-Christian interpretations of scripture to the various Orthodox Christians here to explain your ideas and beliefs about Ethiopia and its royal family past and present (Though presently in exile in the United States).

What are you trying to achieve?

I am ashamed at your lack of knowledge about Ethiopian history, the Bible, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the teachings of the holy fathers of the one universal and apostolic Church.

I am more ashamed that you are posting deranged and distorted views about Ethiopian Clergy and faithful.

As an Ethiopian and a baptized member of the Holy Orthodox Church of which I am a reader; I can assure you that we all pray for the rastas.

The Ethiopian Church has much to offer you and anyone else who wishes to find remission of sin and salvation through Christ.

You can posses this great gift which was prepared for you and the whole world by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ on the Cross.

You DO NOT know the way.....

You and all of us must be shown, taught and guided into All Truth which is Christ Jesus.

NOT LIES.

Remember the great words of the Ethiopian Eunuch to St. Phillip..."How can I know unless some man would show me". This Ethiopian was Baptised the same day St. Phillip preached to him Christ the only true Messiah. (Read Acts Chapter 28).

You and all of us must be shown.

You are not in the light of Christ at this time. You are weighed down with the struggle to try to find your true heritage and culture which was barbarically taken away from you and tens of millions of other Africans and African descents whom you have descended from.

It is hard for many if not most Europeans and European descent today to truly understand this.

The European slave trade and rape of Africa is the greatest level of inhumanity to date perpetuated on a group of people by another group of people. It is in surpassable. But in Christ it is forgiveable.

The Godlessness of the people who instituted the largest forced migration of human beings ever will be judged by God. And that day is coming when not only them; but all of us will be judged according to our deeds.

Will you be ready on this day?

Remember this day may be the day you read this post.

Its is sad that African Americans and the African descent of the Caribean have lost so much of who they are. You all (we all) come from a very distant and vast heritage. Finding Ethiopia is important for you in this matter.

Ethiopia is a free country, A Christian country, a true empire. She has never been conquered by the marauding and the greedy that vanquished the continent. She was saved from this crime against humanity. The Lord Kept her so that she might be kept for you and others like you. Free of western philosophy. But rich in indigenous African ideology and philosophy; particularly as it relates to her understanding of God.

It is therefore a place of great significance for you and all Africans and African descent peoples. Not just for being spared of the European slaughter of the the continent; but also and most importantly her eternal relationship with the Lord. She is blessed.

God called Ethiopian His Chosen:
Read Amos:
"Aren't you the same unto Me as the children of the Ethiopian are o Israel".

The Scripture speaks much about Ethiopia from Genesis to Revelations.

So you are looking for the right place if Ethiopia is your search.

BUT KNOW THIS...ETHIOPIA IS WHAT SHE IS BECAUSE OF HER RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

This relationship goes back to old testament and continued unchanged to this day. The lineage is a spiritual heritage....NOT THE HISTORY OR THE PEDIGREE OF KINGS persay.

You must take your spiritual heritage seriously. Learn the Truth.

The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is the True Church of the Apostles like all other Orthodox communities.

The Former Emperor Of Ethiopia Hiali Sallassie made great efforts to provide for Africans and African descent peoples the beauty and vitality of Orthodoxy. He taught "to embrace Ethiopia is to love God our creator...and your self". His hope was to lift all Africans and African descent people out of the muck-and-Myer of western concepts of Africans (black people) and African history and also the degenerative and destructive power of the protestant religion.

For his love for God he served his people.

Why then do you serve him as a God when he 'served God himself'?

I will not say more to you on this...

It is time for you to leave your old life and find a new richer life in Christ.

If you believe you can do this than you have hope...In Christ.
 
If you find that you are happy the way you are and thus refuse to let your rebellious past go than you are for now hopeless.

And the hopeless can worship any God they want even if its a man, a dog, a stone, whatever. Hopeless is hopeless...period. The hopeless can read the Holy bible upside down or sideways....it is of no matter.

for example...remember the slave masters of early America used the bible to support their behavior toward Africans in the European slave trade which financed America. Of course we can look back today and see clearly how comically silly these people were. This is an example of what happens when you are more concerned what you prefer instead of what Christ teaches and provided. The Bible effectively becomes an abstact art form instead of the absolute truth; up for individual interpretation. This is the basis of the protestant religion....hopelessness in plain English.

If you find you are ready to except that you are a sinner and that you are in rebellion against God and are now willing to repent (truly) of all your current ways; than seek the Orthodox Church. If you prefer the Ethiopian Church than seek it..ON ITS TERMS...NOT YOURS. The Orthodox mind rejects free thinking and individual interpretation of scripture or established Orthodox doctrine.

You will find comfort with the Holy Spirit dwelling in you daily as you pray and worship Christ. You find safety in Christs promise for His chosen people. You will find confidence in your earthly walk knowing who you are when you stand in the Ethiopian liturgical service and smell the waft of Ethiopian frankincense, the syncopation of the Kebero and Tsinotsil and the chanting of the priests. All with the added bonus of traditional African heritage which is yours. A heritage that is African without loosing its Christian Orthodoxy in anyway.

I hope know that you have already been called out from the rasta religion.

You have been called to Christ alone.

You must make the choice.

If  you do not choose Christ; standing in Ethiopian Churches is just a waste of time for you.

Selam leku lekemew
(Peace from me to you...in Geez)

Amde
Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2006, 07:09:02 AM »

Rastaman,

Quote
So if he claims to be the Messiah, he isn't

If he so claimed to be the Messiah, he would necessarily have to be deemed a liar according to the dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church. His life as an Orthodox Christian would be deemed a lie, and he would not be worthy of even human respect let alone divine adoration.

The fact of the matter however, is that HIM never claimed to be the Messiah. He expressed his faith in Christ, the true Messiah, and lived his life in submission to Him. If only Rastafarians would follow his example.

Quote
In that case, I think a couple thousand homeless in New York City alone must be Christ returned, I mean they claim that they are.

I think you’ve missed the point. The point is not that every person who claims to be the Messiah is necessarily so; the very converse of this (i.e. that not every person who claims to be the Messiah is necessarily so) was in fact the very argument implied when I argued that even assuming for argument's sake that HIM claimed to be the returned Messiah, he would have to be deemed as much a liar as any of those homeless nutcases that you mention.

Quote
Having the lineage isnt enough

Having a lineage per se (especially a lineage of both father and mother) disqualifies him from being the returned Messiah, for the Messiah was, and consequently could only have been, born once, eternally of the Father, and in time of the Virgin Mary. The humanity of the Messiah is fully developed, inextricable from His person, and incorruptible. As such, He is neither capable of (1) another earthly birth, nor of (2) an earthly death.

(1): He is incapable of another earthly birth, for according to the dogmatic Tradition expressed through the Third Ecumenical Council of Ephesus 431, His fully developed humanity is an intrinsic aspect of His very being; it is inseparable from His divinity. The very idea of Him discarding His humanity to “re-incarnate”, so to speak, through another body and hence live through another birth, childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, is simply illogical and impossible.

The Resurrected and Incorruptible Messiah explicitly stated that His Second Coming will be a descent from the heavens, awesome and full of glory:

"I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matthew 26:64)

"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (Matthew 24:30)

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done." (Matthew 16:27)

""When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." (Matthew 25:31-33)

(Notice that the last two verses in the above selection also indicate another aspect of the Messiah's Second Coming: the Judgment of all nations. HIM did not judge anyone, but submitted to the Judge of his soul and all souls: the Lord Christ.)

Furthermore, at His first coming, the Messiah was incarnate of a Virgin by necessity, as opposed to by choice. He could not have an earthly father by virtue of the fact His person was not created or produced, but rather eternally begotten of the Father.

(2): Finally, He is incapable of another earthly death, for according to the dogmatic Tradition of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church as shared by all Orthodox Churches, Christ abolished death by His death, and sanctified the humanity He assumed such that it was no longer naturally susceptible to death; it was renewed; it was incorruptible, and hence, it was by very nature immortal.

Quote
having the titles isnt enough

As I already noted, the titles are symbolic; they’re not suggestive of his ontological nature or personal identity. You are misunderstanding Ethiopian culture, undoubtedly influenced by Jewish culture, when you attempt to argue that such titles indicate anything more than the mere honour and respect of the subject of those very titles. That is why HIM specifically assigned Fr. Yeshaq to educate the Jamaicans who were misinterpreting Ethiopian culture.

Quote
having the Sceptre isnt enough

Having earthly rule means nothing. The Messiah did not establish an earthly Kingdom in his first coming, nor did He ever indicate that He planned to at His second coming (this belief is in fact anathematised as heresy by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church). We understand the Messiah’s Kingly function in a cosmic and spiritual sense.

Quote
having the Ark of the Covenant isnt enough

Having the Ark of the Covenant doesn’t mean anything, especially within the context of the New Testament era.

Quote
being a Defender of the Orthodox Faith isnt enough.


Being a defender of the Orthodox Faith doesn’t make one a Messiah. The Oriental Orthodox Church has many defenders: St Athanasios, St Cyril, St Severus. Where do you derive the link between Messiahship and being a defender of the Faith? It doesn’t exist my friend.

Ironically, the most HIM has done to qualify as a defender of the Orthodox Faith, is to deny the claims of the Rastafarians and to appoint Fr. Yeshaq to correct their misunderstandings.

Quote
"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." - 1 Thes. 5:2

You’re taking this out of context. The verse is not indicating that the Messiah’s return will go unnoticed, but rather that it will be sudden and unexpected. This is clearly indicated in the proceeding verses:

“While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.” (verses 3-4)

It is also clearly implied in other passages accounting for the same theme in question:

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” (Matthew 24:42-44).

Quote
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." - John 20:29

Must you "see in his hands the print of the nails, and put [your] finger into the print of the nails, and thrust [your] hand into his side" to believe??

Your very reductionist interpretation of this verse backfires upon you in light of your comments regarding the crazy homeless people who claim to be the Messiah. If Christ is advocating strictly blind faith per se, then why not direct your blind faith to one of those crazy homeless persons who claim to be the Messiah? The very reason you have discriminated between blind faith in a homeless guy and blind faith in HIM is because you believe there to be a rational basis to accepting HIM as the returned Messiah (and hence your faith is not strictly blind), else we wouldn’t even be having this very discussion which primarily revolves around the invalidity and irrationality of the very reasons you are attempting to argue in support of your case.

You need to make a choice Rastaman; I can't stress this enough: either you give up your Rastafarian faith and submit to the very salvific faith experienced by HIM; that is, faith in the Resurrected Christ who sits at the right hand of His Father till His Second Coming, which, as opposed to the reign of HIM, shall be awesome and full of glory, or you continue to worship a dead man.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 07:17:59 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2006, 01:32:05 PM »




You are weighed down with the struggle to try to find your true heritage and culture which was barbarically taken away from you and tens of millions of other Africans and African descents whom you have descended from.










   ummm....Rastaman is a white dude.
Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,722


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2006, 04:56:42 PM »

Speaking of titles, we give practically similar titles to our bishops and popes.  That doesn't make them Christ, but rather imitators of Christ.

God bless.

Mina
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Amdetsion
Worship God with all thy strength and all thy might
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Patriarchate; Addis Abebe Ethiopia
Posts: 931


HH Abuna Pawlos - Patriarch of Ethiopia


« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2006, 08:54:38 PM »

Mo the Ethio

The Rastafarian movement is a direct of various other black power movements before the 1960 in America and the Caribean.

Some of the more important ones was lead by Marcus Garvey and others. These movements were important for much greater reasons than simple identity.

Read Marcus Garvey and his "back to Africa movement".

THUS....

It is natural to relate 'blackness' to any person who is following the Rastafarian movement.

Clear?

As for 'whites' that are rastas; they are entitled, but can never fully be what a real rasta is......ANTI WEST.

Listen to some of Bob Marley's songs again but carefully and count how many negative ways he refers to "Babylon".

They are NOT racists. (I personally feel that is an impossibility). They believe that they are speaking the truth; not rhetoric.

Many serious rastas even marry (by their standard of marriage) whites.  These whites of course are rastas.

This does not change what is already said. What I previously posted is true of real Rastafarian's. Not wannabees and pretenders.

Uh mm... so;  if this guy is white; than so be it. My previous post remains intact.

He is the one who has to reconcile with the points I made. Or ignore it.
Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
Amdetsion
Worship God with all thy strength and all thy might
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Patriarchate; Addis Abebe Ethiopia
Posts: 931


HH Abuna Pawlos - Patriarch of Ethiopia


« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2006, 09:05:06 PM »

EhKristos Anesti

What a great name!

Every time I see your name on the site I get a good feeling since I am firmly familiar with its Coptic meaning.

I want say thanks for your posts regarding the rastaman. I am happy that you are so verse with the former Ethiopian Emporer and who he truely is.

I pray that rastaman finds his way to Christ.

Amde
Logged

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2006, 12:35:18 AM »

Mo the Ethio

The Rastafarian movement is a direct of various other black power movements before the 1960 in America and the Caribean.

Some of the more important ones was lead by Marcus Garvey and others. These movements were important for much greater reasons than simple identity.

Read Marcus Garvey and his "back to Africa movement".

THUS....

It is natural to relate 'blackness' to any person who is following the Rastafarian movement.

Clear?

As for 'whites' that are rastas; they are entitled, but can never fully be what a real rasta is......ANTI WEST.

Listen to some of Bob Marley's songs again but carefully and count how many negative ways he refers to "Babylon".

They are NOT racists. (I personally feel that is an impossibility). They believe that they are speaking the truth; not rhetoric.

Many serious rastas even marry (by their standard of marriage) whites.ÂÂ  These whites of course are rastas.

This does not change what is already said. What I previously posted is true of real Rastafarian's. Not wannabees and pretenders.

Uh mm... so;ÂÂ  if this guy is white; than so be it. My previous post remains intact.

He is the one who has to reconcile with the points I made. Or ignore it.

 I have read your post . It`s late . I`ve been working  my a#s off . I will address you and Rastaman asap.
Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2006, 01:53:00 AM »



The Rastafarian movement is a direct of various other black power movements before the 1960 in America and the Caribean.
and your point is...ah yes, the root of Rastafarian(ism) is black nationalism.
Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2006, 02:06:10 AM »



THUS....

It is natural to relate 'blackness' to any person who is following the Rastafarian movement.

Clear?

As for 'whites' that are rastas; they are entitled, but can never fully be what a real rasta is......ANTI WEST.



   CLEAR? CLEAR?   I`ll tell you what IS clear: It is CLEAR that these two statements contradict each other. It is CLEAR that you are defending Rastafarian(ism) and it is CLEAR that you don`t live in Jamaica or the western hemesphere . So PLEASE don`t lecture me about this so called "movement" when you you have no idea of the reality ...only some idealized concept in your mind that lacks a full understanding of what goes on here.
Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Mo the Ethio
Proud Capitalist
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
Posts: 453



« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2006, 02:21:56 AM »



Listen to some of Bob Marley's songs again but carefully and count how many negative ways he refers to "Babylon".

They are NOT racists. (I personally feel that is an impossibility). They believe that they are speaking the truth; not rhetoric.



   Go back and read my posts. I never said that Bob Marley espoused racism. I referred to the so called "sects" of Rastafari. CLEARLY you and Rastaman have never been to Jamaica (and Rastaman , I don`t mean the tourist areas, I mean Kingston..Mo Bay , Negril don`t count) .
 Again , don`t lecture me , son. I was listening to Bob Marley when you were a twinkle in your daddy eye .My band opened for Bob Marley. I hung with Bob Marley. Bob was no Racist. DON`T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
 However , the Rasta " movement" ( what a joke , there is no movement) is by and large racist. I stand by by posts.
Logged

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2006, 01:14:57 PM »

Quote
It is CLEAR that you are defending Rastafarian(ism)

I don't think that's a fair call.

I'm not sure why a difference of opinion on a matter that is not essentially pertinent to the falsity of Rastafarianism as a faith has insitgated that reaction from you. Maybe i'm missing something.
Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
Tags: HIM Haile Selassie Rastafarian Rastafarianism heretical cult Rastaman monarchy Emperor liar divinity 
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.195 seconds with 73 queries.