OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 02, 2014, 06:19:21 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Orthodox "struggle"  (Read 1793 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
javamama
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 55



« on: April 07, 2003, 05:02:06 PM »

Greetings!  I believe I've only posted once or twice on this site, but now that we've been "booted" from CBBS, I hope to be here much more frequently.

Now my question:  I'm a catechumen and I have a question that I'm a bit embarrassed to ask my priest.  In my "struggle toward Orthodoxy", what exactly am I supposed to be struggling with?

Thanks for any help you can give me...

Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,581



« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2003, 05:07:47 PM »

You must struggle with the struggle of not knowing what to struggle with!  Orthodoxy loves paradoxes, and we get more confusing the further you become Orthodox. Yet, to struggle as an Orthodox makes one an orthodox struggler only insofar as one struggles not with orthodoxy, but for orthodoxy, for struggling leads to salvation, even though we wish to avoid it and pray that we might avoid struggling. Got it?    Shocked  Just Kidding Grin

Seriously though, struggles come in all sorts of forms. The easiest ones for people new to the faith to have are the overt physical ones. Fasting, controling one's outward actions related to lust, etc. It's a struggle against fallen man's wish to do what "feels good". Sometimes the struggle is just getting to the point where you WANT to struggle. Sometimes the struggle is struggling when you don't see the point of it all. Struggling is never an end in itself though, as though we'll get to heaven and get in because we struggled a lot. Struggling is just a way of helping us grow spiritually. Every time we resist the temptation to please our bellies, we make a sacrifice to God, and conquer a bit more of our flesh (not that flesh in itself is bad, but just like the corrupted mind must be overcome, so to must sinful fleshly desires and urges be overcome).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2003, 05:13:14 PM by Paradosis » Logged
Nigula Qian Zishi
Administrator Emeritus, Retired Deacon, Inactive Poster, Active Orthodox Christian, Father, and Husband
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 1,836


我美丽的妻子和我。

nstanosheck
WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2003, 05:13:00 PM »

I was going to say the struggle for perfection, being perfect in our praxis, our thoughts, our emotions, etc. But Paradosis did a good job of explaining that.

But if you see or feel no struggle, then Paradosis is right, you must struggle to struggle!
Logged

在基督         My Original Blog
尼古拉         My Facebook Profile
前执事         My Twitter Page
javamama
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 55



« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2003, 07:57:19 PM »

Ohhhh!  That's what it means!   Grin  

By that definition...I'm strugglin!!
Logged
Brendan03
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 544



« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2003, 08:19:06 AM »

Struggle with any doubts you may have.

Struggle with the temptation to get locked in to the externals of the Orthodox faith, and challenge yourself to see through these to the heart of the faith.

Struggle to discern the true disposition of your heart (kardia in the sense of the Philokalia) and your mind (nous in the sense of the Philokalia) and to align these with Christ.
Logged

B
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,581



« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2003, 09:53:14 AM »

MartinIntlStud

Quote
What's the baptism count though? While missing 3 Sundays in a row isn't a great thing to do, those who are baptised are still Orthodox Christians, whether they act on it or not.

Are they?

Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go around condemning people or judging them for missing three sundays (it's the priest's call regarding how to discipline them/deal with the situation). However, I would ask whether one who missed three weeks without a valid reason (e.g., I have to work to feed my family) should be considered to have the wonderful name Orthodox. If someone won the lottery, and went around telling everyone that they won the lottery, but then never made an effort to put that winning into effect, and therefore never received the money, we might still call them a "lottery winner," but they wouldn't be a millionaire. In that way, yeah, the person would indeed still be a member of the Orthodox Church, but if they aren't even trying, they'd be a member in a very different way. I guess my previous post was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to the common numbers, which are inflated and give a false sense of exactly how large and matured Orthodoxy is in North America.
Logged
Brendan03
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 544



« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2003, 10:09:33 AM »

It's hard to compare, however, because the numbers given for the other denominations are similarly inflated.  For example, one often hears of the ca. 60M RCs in the USA, but this surely doesn't reflect the number that attend Mass regularly.  Nor do the figures for the various Protestant denominations reflect the Sunday morning reality.  It would be interesting to see the actual numbers of practicing members of the various denominations, but I presume this would be extremely difficult, if not imposible, to obtain in practice.

B
Logged

B
MartinIntlStud
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134



« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2003, 01:22:51 PM »

wasn't this in a different thread?
Logged
Thomas
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,790



« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2003, 12:35:27 PM »

 :)Glory to Jesus Christ!

Paradosis is correct as to the canon as seen in the Rudder---three Sunday Divine Liturgies and one has excommunicated him/herself from the church by choice because they have not communed--- i.e. the have ex- commun-icated themselves.  At this point condfession to a priest, counsel and absolution return the  sinner to the fold of  Communion with the Church.  It should be noted that excluded from this "excommunication" would be those who work for the health and salvation of the people (i.e. Doctors, nurses, those carrying for the ill and infirm, police, soldiers, etc) however to these are laid on other requirements such as the reading of the service that one can not attend, to attend to services that are held when they can attend services.  

It is interesting to note that in many of the cases of the careproviders for the elderly and ill, it is the responsibility of the priest to visit these people with regularity and provide the sacraments to all who serve God in these callings, thus when the priest visits a hospital, an nursing home, or the home of an invalid he should seek out all Orthodox people and provide them with the opportunity to confess and commune.  In a society such as the US, regretfully few priests seek out those workers to provide them the spiritual sustenace they need to be spiritually refueled to care for those they care for.

One of the true tests for a priest who is serving the people as he should is that all the  invalid, ill, and elderly who can not attend the Divine Liturgy are communed regularly and provided spiritual support Sadly, many of our elderly and sick are forgotten and abandoned in their last years , especially if they do not have children  who advocate for the priest to provide care for this portion of the flock.

One of the great joys in my life in Orthodoxy was when Raphael of Brooklyn was glorified.  He has the additional title of seeker for the Lost and Forgotten, may all clergy look to him for the example of their call to find the Fogotten and the Lost.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2003, 02:58:38 PM »

Thomas<<It is interesting to note that in many of the cases of the careproviders for the elderly and ill, it is the responsibility of the priest to visit these people with regularity and provide the sacraments to all who serve God in these callings, thus when the priest visits a hospital, an nursing home, or the home of an invalid he should seek out all Orthodox people and provide them with the opportunity to confess and commune.>>

Thomas, in my old OCA parish that is precisely what the priest did--he heard the confessions of the invalid and all in the household when he made a pastoral visitation to bring the Eucharist to the invalid.  He knew that sometimes it was well nigh impossible for the family members to get to Saturday night Vespers and confession in church due to their careproviding responsibilities and the distance to the church.

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
Thomas
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,790



« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2003, 04:40:21 PM »

Glory to God!

Sadly that has not been the experience of many older Orthodox Christians and their families. Glory to God! My pastor is one of those who does this also!

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas
Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
Tags: repentance asceticism struggle 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.056 seconds with 37 queries.