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Author Topic: Moscow's First Gay Pride Parade Disrupted by Police and Hecklers  (Read 41617 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2006, 04:47:15 PM »

sorry - again - for hurting anyones feelings ...
That was never my intention ...

And for anyone who might hurt mine ... you are forgiven ...

And I am never questioning the validity of the bible.
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« Reply #136 on: October 08, 2006, 01:04:10 PM »

Hi Tikhon

You have some good points ...
Except I am not suffering!
You accept it is a sin, yet you are not suffering?

There is no difference between being gay and acting gay.
That's a very unnatural border (sorry for my english). And very unloving.
Of course there is a difference.  Having same sex attractions and commiting sodomy are 2 different things.  I think Im correct in stating that Fr. Seraphim Rose suffered from same sex attractions, and look at him, he became a monk.  He overcame those passions, but the first step was acknowledging he had a problem.

And do u mean that God loves me more when I have sex with another anonymous man once ... and then feel sorry for it and ask his forgivenes? And forgiveness for what? For what should I feel sorry?
I didn't ask for being gay. But now I accepted that fact I am proud to be! So yes: pride!
You claim you are Orthodox, you trangress Gods law, and then you ask for what should you be sorry? 


I have to be proud. To show that I have the right for my own place in this world.
You seem to have a complex, why on earth do you feel you have to show anyone you have the right for your own place in this world? God put you here, if you had enough confidence and humility you would realise that other people cant judge you, God will.  And pride is not a virtue.

I dont scream it from any rooftop that I am gay. But I am not ashamed also.
And I am not sleeping around with many men - I guess many people believe gays do.
I have a man. In the Netherlands we can mary. And I did. I love my man.
And nno-one wil send me away when I want to visit him when he might be in hospital.
I can inherit, when he might die (May god forbid) and not his family, but the man he chose to live with.
You are clearly not Orthodox if you are 'married' to a man.
And still God loves me. I know He does. Believe me.
Believe me when I say that you are repelling God with your impure behaviour, not allowing him to reach you because of your pride and refusal to acknowledge you're doing anything wrong.  How can God help you when you cant even accept you need his help? 
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« Reply #137 on: October 08, 2006, 09:08:30 PM »

I didn't ask for being gay. But now I accepted that fact I am proud to be! So yes: pride!
I have to be proud. To show that I have the right for my own place in this world.

No one says you dont have the right to to exist on this world. No one here (atleast not me) is saying you chose to be gay. But mind telling me why you "have to be proud"? I'm a little eager to know why you brought up the word pride so many times in such less span of words...

Quote
And still God loves me. I know He does. Believe me.

I know he loves you too. He loves all of his children, really. Even the serial killing mass murderers... (no, I'm not comparing them to homosexuals, but you get my point...hopefully without offense.)

Really, now I'd like to ask, what church did you get married in? Somehow, I doubt it is an Orthodox church, but then again I could be wrong.

Peace be with all of God's children,
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« Reply #138 on: October 13, 2006, 10:37:53 AM »

Gay Pri de started in response to the overwhelming prejudice in society.  In response to police harrassment and entrapment.  In reponse to many terrible things.   It is not Pride in the sense of hubris
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« Reply #139 on: October 13, 2006, 02:31:30 PM »

There can be no pride in what should only bring shame to a Christian.
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« Reply #140 on: October 14, 2006, 12:02:43 AM »

and shame to Christians is often bigotry and prejudice
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« Reply #141 on: October 17, 2006, 10:33:30 AM »

and shame to Christians is often bigotry and prejudice
So we cannot separate ourselves from what God Himself has called "abomination" without others calling us bigots?

So be it! Jesus told us that the world would hate us as it hated Him first.

And don't be fooled into thinking that those who hate Him and revel in their sin will stop at just name calling.
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« Reply #142 on: October 18, 2006, 11:02:00 AM »

There are correct ways to do things, including telling someone they are doing something wrong. Not everyone will carry this out correctly, but that doesn't change the core truth-the behavior is wrong.  I can call my child down from running out into the road-I can scream at them and beat them with a stick or I can correctly chastise them for behavior that is incorrect and unsafe.  The core truth remains the same whether I handled it correctly or not. You can't change the core truth by being proud of your incorrect behavior.  You can't change truth by lamenting someone's incorrect reponse to your incorrect behavior.  The trouble is that your conscience is seared enough to comfortably hide behind the whole gay pride movement.   

being gay was never intended by the creator, so it's NEVER going to be the ideal.  You can paint yourself naked and pink, put rainbow stickers on your rear end and march down the road- but it's still not the ideal your Father had for you. This Gay Pride movement is just a clever entrapment by the enemy. As long as your proud of your brokeness, you won't see it for what it is.
And no, for all those that want to attack me, I don't for one minute think sexual brokenness is just limited to the gay/lesbian community. I just get sick of tiptoeing around the blunt Naked truth in any situation Roll Eyes
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« Reply #143 on: October 21, 2006, 10:28:49 AM »

So we cannot separate ourselves from what God Himself has called "abomination" without others calling us bigots?

So be it! Jesus told us that the world would hate us as it hated Him first.

And don't be fooled into thinking that those who hate Him and revel in their sin will stop at just name calling.

   Like  Fred Phelps and his group?  No, they don't stop at name calling.  They picket funerals of people who have died of AIDS and now they picket funerals of soldiers. Orthodox Christians have nothing in common (or should not) with such a group.  We have all heard the name calling against gay people and deep prejudices.  We have to root that out if we call ourselves even Christians let alone Orthodox Christians.
  No, those who hate gay people don't stop at name calling.  They bash and kill also.  We should make a stand against that also!
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« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2006, 11:38:24 AM »

I know what bripat22 is saying. I have an acquaintance who for some years who sent me anti-homosexual newsletters every other day, telling me about how the gays were destroying our world, etc. I realized he had no love for the people he was against but instead simply hated them; they were the "other" he could use to make himself feel righteous. Then illegal immigrants came to the forefront and now they're the people making the world end. I said, Lord please don't let a gay illegal immigrant ever run in to this man or this man might kill the fellow!

On the flip side, I do find the idea that it is now "ok to be gay" to be distressing because it allows people that may be sitting on the fence about things (most people are not 100% straight or gay, but instead have a spectrum of sexual stimuli that can be influenced by a variety of factors) to then see it preached that it's ok to engage in gay sex and life, and they may in fact act out on it, whereas when it was taboo they might have restrained themselves more strictly.  Yes, this caused people pain, but so did straight people marrying people they didn't really want to, so did people going into careers they hated because their parents forced them, or living in places with no chance of escape.  Life is generally more freer in all regards now, and this can be good, but it can also be bad because it allows our licentiousness on all fronts freer reign.

I only hope that we can continue to oppose homosexual propoganda WITHOUT hating these people whom we should love, and I also don't understand the revulsion that some people get when they think of gay people.  People are people. They once were cute babies, they have family and friends, and more importantly they have souls.  We can't ever think of these people as anyone else than possible future Orthodox Christians, and treat them as such.

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« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2006, 07:59:13 PM »

whereas when it was taboo they might have restrained themselves more strictly. 
Fornication and adultery were once taboo also. A couple living together who were unmarried was once taboo, but now it is the norm. Why is it that we don't lament these cases of the socialization of sin as much? Why do we focus on the sin of homosexuality? The word I keep hearing is "Abomination", but adultery is an abomination, fornication is an abomination.

I only hope that we can continue to oppose homosexual propoganda WITHOUT hating these people whom we should love,
But if we don't equally oppose the propaganda which has acheived the acceptable status of heterosexual fornication and adultery, our double standard will show the depths of our hypocracy.

Either we "speak out" against every sin in society or none.
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« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2006, 11:51:42 PM »

On the flip side, I do find the idea that it is now "ok to be gay" to be distressing because it allows people that may be sitting on the fence about things (most people are not 100% straight or gay, but instead have a spectrum of sexual stimuli that can be influenced by a variety of factors) to then see it preached that it's ok to engage in gay sex and life, and they may in fact act out on it, whereas when it was taboo they might have restrained themselves more strictly.

Fornication and adultery were once taboo also. A couple living together who were unmarried was once taboo, but now it is the norm. Why is it that we don't lament these cases of the socialization of sin as much? Why do we focus on the sin of homosexuality? The word I keep hearing is "Abomination", but adultery is an abomination, fornication is an abomination.

It would seem to me that the greater problem here is our dependence on social pressure to enforce Christian morality. If we conforms to Christian morality because of social pressure and fear of what our neighbours may think of us, rather than out of love of God and desire to become closer to Him, is there any virtue to our restraint? Or do we merely added the sins of pride and vainglory to the other sins that we have already commited in our hearts?
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« Reply #147 on: October 22, 2006, 02:05:58 AM »

I know what bripat22 is saying. I have an acquaintance who for some years who sent me anti-homosexual newsletters every other day, telling me about how the gays were destroying our world, etc. I realized he had no love for the people he was against but instead simply hated them; they were the "other" he could use to make himself feel righteous. Then illegal immigrants came to the forefront and now they're the people making the world end. I said, Lord please don't let a gay illegal immigrant ever run in to this man or this man might kill the fellow!

On the flip side, I do find the idea that it is now "ok to be gay" to be distressing because it allows people that may be sitting on the fence about things (most people are not 100% straight or gay, but instead have a spectrum of sexual stimuli that can be influenced by a variety of factors) to then see it preached that it's ok to engage in gay sex and life, and they may in fact act out on it, whereas when it was taboo they might have restrained themselves more strictly.  Yes, this caused people pain, but so did straight people marrying people they didn't really want to, so did people going into careers they hated because their parents forced them, or living in places with no chance of escape.  Life is generally more freer in all regards now, and this can be good, but it can also be bad because it allows our licentiousness on all fronts freer reign.

I only hope that we can continue to oppose homosexual propoganda WITHOUT hating these people whom we should love, and I also don't understand the revulsion that some people get when they think of gay people.  People are people. They once were cute babies, they have family and friends, and more importantly they have souls.  We can't ever think of these people as anyone else than possible future Orthodox Christians, and treat them as such.

Anastasios

What an  amazingly insightful post.  I wish I could have written lots of it, and there's very little here that I would  have written differently if I'd had the presence of mind to jot something down this eloquent.  I probably would have just added more about needing to love homosexuals and anyone else exactly as they are, and that we should realize how excluded the Church can make homosexuals feel at times.  It's a very difficult issue. 

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« Reply #148 on: October 22, 2006, 10:17:40 PM »

Anastasios

I think your post was the most thoughtful and insightful of this thread.  Definitely more light then heat!
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« Reply #149 on: October 22, 2006, 10:29:34 PM »

Fornication and adultery were once taboo also. A couple living together who were unmarried was once taboo, but now it is the norm. Why is it that we don't lament these cases of the socialization of sin as much? Why do we focus on the sin of homosexuality? The word I keep hearing is "Abomination", but adultery is an abomination, fornication is an abomination.
But if we don't equally oppose the propaganda which has acheived the acceptable status of heterosexual fornication and adultery, our double standard will show the depths of our hypocracy.

Either we "speak out" against every sin in society or none.

I agree entirely George. I'm glad we see eye to eye on this one. Smiley
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« Reply #150 on: October 22, 2006, 11:27:31 PM »

An aside; Moscow had thier other 'first gay pride parade" in 1991 and another "first gay pride parade" in 1995. After three of them I  think can move on to 'second".
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« Reply #151 on: October 24, 2006, 10:17:31 AM »

The word I keep hearing is "Abomination", but adultery is an abomination, fornication is an abomination.
God called homosexuality an abomination but He did not apply the term to the other sins that you listed.

I'll stick with God's opinion on the matter, thank you very much.
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« Reply #152 on: October 24, 2006, 10:45:01 AM »

God called homosexuality an abomination but He did not apply the term to the other sins that you listed.

I'll stick with God's opinion on the matter, thank you very much.
OK, then I hope you don't eat shrimp or lobster or crab or oysters or mussels or scollops, because that is also an "abomination" according to the same book of the Bible (see Leviticus 11:9-12), and I know how important is is for you to "stick with God's opinion" on matters.
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« Reply #153 on: October 24, 2006, 11:49:52 AM »

OK, then I hope you don't eat shrimp or lobster or crab or oysters or mussels or scollops, because that is also an "abomination" according to the same book of the Bible (see Leviticus 11:9-12), and I know how important is is for you to "stick with God's opinion" on matters.
Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Acts 15 so that you can be familiar with Christian teachings on the matter. Yeah, the food regulations were fulfilled but the teachings on sexual morality continue to be applied unchanged.
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« Reply #154 on: October 24, 2006, 05:47:48 PM »

I suppose Patristic interpretation would be more helpful than personal interpretation... Don't exclude the modern-day writers and fathers of the Church..

I just think this is going nowhere fast.
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« Reply #155 on: October 24, 2006, 05:58:06 PM »

God called homosexuality an abomination but He did not apply the term to the other sins that you listed.

I'll stick with God's opinion on the matter, thank you very much.

Ah, of course, the sins of our neighbour are always greater than our own, and in that spirit let us pray that prayer that our Lord gave us, 'God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.'

But in actuallity there are many things declared an abonimation to God by the scriptures:

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.

Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Furthermore, even in the very Chapter of Leviticus that was being addressed above, Adultery (specifically, sleeping with your neighbour's wife) is called an abomination. As to what God's opinion is, if I may be so presumptuous as to opine on the same, any sin is a transgression of His Will, any sin is an abomination.
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« Reply #156 on: October 25, 2006, 10:08:11 AM »

Ah, of course, the sins of our neighbour are always greater than our own...
That might be true for someone who is attempting to deny their own status as a sinner, as the homosexual activists are doing.

They are attempting to overrule God because they want to take pride in their sin.
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« Reply #157 on: October 25, 2006, 10:29:32 AM »

you don't know too many gay people.....if you knew them you would know their struggles and the faith of many
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« Reply #158 on: October 25, 2006, 10:35:31 AM »

you don't know too many gay people.....if you knew them you would know their struggles and the faith of many
Let it go bripat. What can you possibly say to someone who states that the sins of others are greater than his own- like the Pharisee said of the Publican in the Temple, but who was it that went home justified before God?
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« Reply #159 on: October 25, 2006, 11:13:13 AM »

you don't know too many gay people.....if you knew them you would know their struggles and the faith of many
There's a huge difference between someone who stuggles against their sinful nature and someone who parades down the street celebrating their sin. The topic IS about their parade, you know, not about someone struggling against sin.

What can you possibly say to someone who states that the sins of others are greater than his own...

Who said that?
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« Reply #160 on: November 06, 2006, 09:42:20 AM »

According to this news report today: http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20061106-054314-7986r a gay march is scheduled in Jerusalem and the Fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Moslems have been staging protests (sometimes violent ones) for days. However, what struck me was the brief mention in the article of what the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of jerusalem had to say on the matter:

Yet some religious leaders have adopted a more cautious approach, seeing the matter as one for the local authorities regardless of their theological stance.
"We're not supposed to interfere into matters which are primarily the concern of local political authorities," Greek Orthodox Patriarch Theophilos said, who rejected overtures from some rabbis to join up against the march.
"Our position, as a Church, as a religious institution is that homosexuality or anything which is related to this behavior is condemned according to the Bible. But the person by no means can be treated in a negative way."

I found this to be a sane voice in a sea of passion.
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« Reply #161 on: November 06, 2006, 10:02:11 AM »

I found this to be a sane voice in a sea of passion.
It's good to know that the Church keeps speaking the truth on the matter.

I read this morning that a group of "ultra-Orthodox" Jews are threatening violence since the civil authorities in Israel will take no further action against the parade.
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« Reply #162 on: November 06, 2006, 10:22:17 AM »

"Our position, as a Church, as a religious institution is that homosexuality or anything which is related to this behavior is condemned according to the Bible. But the person by no means can be treated in a negative way."
[/color][/i]

Considering that homosexual behaviour can traditionally be punished by imprisonment in Orthodox countries, with the Church's approval, this smacks of "I'm okay, you're okay" compromise.
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« Reply #163 on: November 06, 2006, 11:10:53 AM »

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« Reply #164 on: November 06, 2006, 11:22:33 AM »

Considering that homosexual behaviour can traditionally be punished by imprisonment in Orthodox countries, with the Church's approval, \

 to our shame
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« Reply #165 on: November 06, 2006, 11:41:10 AM »

Considering that homosexual behaviour can traditionally be punished by imprisonment in Orthodox countries, with the Church's approval, this smacks of "I'm okay, you're okay" compromise.

I doubt that approach led to many sincere conversions.
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« Reply #166 on: November 11, 2006, 01:03:14 PM »

Jerusalem holds gay pride rally

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6135778.stm

The event highlights deep divisions between Israeli communities
A controversial gay pride rally has taken place in Jerusalem despite calls from religious leaders to ban it.

About 4,000 gay men, lesbians and civil rights supporters gathered at the Hebrew University stadium.

Security was tight in the city with 3,000 Israeli police drafted in to stop clashes between the demonstrators and orthodox Jews.

About 30 gay protesters who tried to march illegally through the city were arrested by Israeli police.

The proposed march was cancelled by Israeli police on Thursday after Palestinian threats to attack Israel after the shelling in Gaza in which 18 Palestinian civilians were killed.
   
Event organisers agreed to move the event to the stadium after Israeli police said they needed to divert forces to deal with the security threat.

Permission for the proposed march through Jerusalem had provoked controversy because of religious Jewish views of homosexuality as an abomination.

Religious sensibilities

Ultra-orthodox Jews clashed with Israeli police earlier this week after calling for the march to be cancelled, saying it defiled the holy city.

The proposed march was also criticised by the Muslim and Christian religious communities.

The Vatican called for it to be scrapped for fear of offending "the sensibilities of religious communities".

As the event got under way, thousands of gay people poured into the stadium to hear a series of speeches.

Many wore T-shirts celebrating their sexuality while others held banners and flags. One banner read: "There are different ways to be a Jew."

Two men dressed as sperm handed out condoms to participants.

One man at the rally told that the BBC that "that people need to be more accepting of homosexuality".

The four-hour event passed off without any reports of violence.

At last year's march, three participants were injured when they were stabbed by an orthodox Jew who opposed the event.

This year's gathering had already been postponed because of the conflict with Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas during the summer.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 01:04:18 PM by cleveland » Logged

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« Reply #167 on: November 13, 2006, 09:05:32 AM »

Two men dressed as sperm handed out condoms to participants.
And some suggest that we should be ashamed of our opposition to sin? Not very likely.
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« Reply #168 on: November 13, 2006, 09:16:40 AM »

And some suggest that we should be ashamed of our opposition to sin? Not very likely.

I fail to see any problem with the sentence of which you decided to make an example. Perhaps you prefer the unchecked spread of disease and pestilence, but all sane and rational people will agree that this is one area where we have made substantial progress over past civilizations; progress that no one in their right mind would want to see reversed.
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« Reply #169 on: November 13, 2006, 11:41:23 AM »

Perhaps you prefer the unchecked spread of disease and pestilence...
That's just a bit of a stretch there. If you wish to give tactic approval to a group encouraging sinful behavior, that is your right, but kindly do so without hurling outrageous condemnations at those who chose not to remain silent.
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« Reply #170 on: November 13, 2006, 01:57:35 PM »

Condoms are there to allow promiscuity with no strings attached.
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« Reply #171 on: November 13, 2006, 04:55:14 PM »

Condoms are there to allow promiscuity with no strings attached.

You are right. They should be banned. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #172 on: November 13, 2006, 06:35:18 PM »

That's just a bit of a stretch there. If you wish to give tactic approval to a group encouraging sinful behavior, that is your right, but kindly do so without hurling outrageous condemnations at those who chose not to remain silent.

My apologies if I am slightly disturbed by people who oppose the containment of disease on account of so-called moral reasons.

Condoms are there to allow promiscuity with no strings attached.

This is, of course, proven by the fact that prior to the widespread use of condemns sexual promiscuity did not exist.
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« Reply #173 on: November 13, 2006, 07:55:18 PM »

Well, promiscuity has even more of a reason to exist now. Now it's just "harmless" fun.
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« Reply #174 on: November 13, 2006, 09:59:52 PM »

Well, promiscuity has even more of a reason to exist now. Now it's just "harmless" fun.

Promiscuity's previous existence did not seem to lack, despite the absence of this new found reason. I fear you have confused cause and effect. Sexual promiscuity is as old as the human species, even as old as biological life, in fact it is even much older than the moral codes that condemn it, thus to blame it on condoms is absurd. It could possibly argued that condoms result from sexual promiscuity, but in the context of history to say that it is a cause of said promiscuity is absurd. All that condoms cause is a decrease in the propagation of disease; hardly a cause that any reasonable person would be up in arms against.
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« Reply #175 on: November 14, 2006, 12:54:23 AM »

I never said condoms cause promiscuity.

That said, condom use certainly does encourage promiscuity, for it helps allow the promiscuous to avoid the consequences that come from such behavior (which is precisely what condoms are designed for). The fear of pregnancy and venereal disease can discourage promiscuity.

Under no circumstances is condom use justified; it is antithetical to God's plan for sexual union, which is procreation in the context of monogamous marital love.
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« Reply #176 on: November 14, 2006, 01:17:26 AM »

I never said condoms cause promiscuity.

That said, condom use certainly does encourage promiscuity, for it helps allow the promiscuous to avoid the consequences that come from such behavior (which is precisely what condoms are designed for). The fear of pregnancy and venereal disease can discourage promiscuity.

LOL...this is great, they do not cause...oh wait, they do cause. Ignoring the theological abhorrent concept that we should discourage sin by use of fear, you have presented no evidence that condoms cause (or insert the word 'encourage' if you like, logically they're fairly comprable in this situation) sexual promiscuity. If necessary I can provide evidence for the fact that the use of condoms reduces the spread of disease. Now, I ask you to provide support for your claim, that condoms somehow increase sexual activity. What studies or research have you come across to support this proposition? Because, quite frankly, I don't buy it...I don't really think that Homo Sapiens are any more sexually promiscuous than they have been at any other time in the last 100,000 years.

Quote
Under no circumstances is condom use justified; it is antithetical to God's plan for sexual union, which is procreation in the context of monogamous marital love.

Gibberish. This is nothing but Roman Popery, the absurdities of which have been dismissed in more than one thread on this board.
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« Reply #177 on: November 14, 2006, 01:49:23 AM »

Under no circumstances is condom use justified;
Even if they save lives? Please tell me you're kidding....
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« Reply #178 on: November 14, 2006, 04:52:26 AM »

Even if they save lives? Please tell me you're kidding....

GreekisChristian's disrespectful rhetoric deserves no response, and it will receive none. I doubt he even desires a serious response.

As for your question, from a personal moral standpoint, no. Condoms prevent the union of sperm and egg, which is what God designed sex for. It is thus a form of Onanism. What kind of sexual union is there when it is not open to life?

I am glad that people are spared terrible diseases through condom use, but at no point should the Church recommend it. It should stick to the truth: Avoiding sexual sin renders condom use unnecessary. The Church needs to guide people to chastity, not accept unchastity and counsel condom use. Leave the condom promotion and distribution to secular authorities, which are not bound to teach the moral law.

Respectfully, for the Church to accept condom use is to compromise with today's world, in my view.
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« Reply #179 on: November 14, 2006, 05:01:01 AM »

As for your question, from a personal moral standpoint, no. Condoms prevent the union of sperm and egg, which is what God designed sex for. It is thus a form of Onanism. What kind of sexual union is there when it is not open to life?

So if someone has a medical condition that renders them unfertile, they should stop have relations with thier spouse?

I am glad that people are spared terrible diseases through condom use, but at no point should the Church recommend it. It should stick to the truth: Avoiding sexual sin renders condom use unnecessary. The Church needs to guide people to chastity, not accept unchastity and counsel condom use. Leave the condom promotion and distribution to secular authorities, which are not bound to teach the moral law.

Respectfully, for the Church to accept condom use is to compromise with today's world, in my view.

Oh, I guess healthcare providers who have contracted HIV or Hep-C by being splattered with blood or stuck w/ contaminated needles were just being "unchaste". I guess they just stop having relations w/ thier spouses or have "procreative" sex that results in thier spouse and any child that they concieve in being infected also.


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