Author Topic: ROCOR + MP + OCA?  (Read 3059 times)

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Offline bergschlawiner

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ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« on: May 18, 2006, 12:17:44 PM »
Since it is news now that ROCOR will normalize its relations with the MP then what will be the status between ROCOR and OCA local parishes?  It seems that OCA has relations with the MP as well as ROCOR which should make them "sister" churches but what about the local level?  With its establishing relations with Moscow then what's to stop the ROCOR and OCA from uniting or at least co-existing and participating in events like the Sunday of Orthodoxy together.  Maybe it will evolve in a "new calendar" vs an "old calendar" parish in the same town?

Offline dantxny

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2006, 12:48:13 PM »
Well, this is my guess as the structure is still not clear, but it looks like ROCOR will at least be given Autonomy, so relations will probably be no different than the OCA is with GOA, MP, or Antioch is now.  I guess there will be concelebrations, but this is mostly going to be the choice of the local bishops and priests.  As there were informal contacts before, they will now be formal.  So, IMHO, not much.  What interests me, now, is whether ROCOR will join SCOBA.
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I think the French may be on to something here.

Offline chrisb

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2006, 12:54:18 PM »
Isn't ROCA/ROCOR more conservative than mainline OCA and GOA? If they join SCOBA wouldn't that skew it to amore conservative view?
For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother. - Mark 3:35

Offline Elisha

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2006, 12:55:49 PM »
Isn't ROCA/ROCOR more conservative than mainline OCA and GOA? If they join SCOBA wouldn't that skew it to amore conservative view?

And there is a problem with this conservative influence?

Offline chrisb

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 01:02:14 PM »
And there is a problem with this conservative influence?

Well if you've followed any of my posts here you'd know I am always on the block for me 'too' conservative in my theology so as far as I'm concerned it's a good thing but would this cause division among more liberal minded OCA and GOA with SCOBA pronouncements?

BTW, I'm not Orthodox I'm baptist/catholic inquiring into Orthodoxy but I largely like Russian Orthodox Theology so ROCA is more my cup of tea.  ;D
For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother. - Mark 3:35

Offline The young fogey

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2006, 03:06:59 PM »
My take.

Yes, ROCOR is more conservative - nobody was judging that in the preceding post, merely making an observation.

And I think it was invited to join SCOBA when SCOBA first formed, so as for future membership, why not?
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2006, 03:36:01 PM »
I'm sure SCOBA could embrace a more conservative voice as a means of broadening the conservative/liberal spectrum for discussions of important matters.
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Offline chrisb

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2006, 04:35:20 PM »
My take.

Yes, ROCOR is more conservative - nobody was judging that in the preceding post, merely making an observation.

And I think it was invited to join SCOBA when SCOBA first formed, so as for future membership, why not?

I read your 'take' and I largely agree with it. I have the impression that Western Culture is ill-capacable to manage itself.
For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother. - Mark 3:35

Offline Elisha

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2006, 06:07:15 PM »
My take.

Yes, ROCOR is more conservative - nobody was judging that in the preceding post, merely making an observation.

And I think it was invited to join SCOBA when SCOBA first formed, so as for future membership, why not?

You are correct...

http://www.sobor2006.com/printerfriendly2.php?id=119_0_3_0

          [around page 4] 

"ROCOR was invited to participate in the Standing Conference of Orthodox Bishops of America (SCOBA) established in 1960 at the initiative of Archbishop Iakovos (Patriarchate of Constantinople). In his reply, however, Metropolitan Anastasii stated that ROCOR would participate in the conference only if representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate were excluded, which was unacceptable to Archbishop Iakovos.[30] At times, an uncompromising stand in regard to the communist government was, within ROCOR, as significant an issue as protecting the true Orthodox faith; in other words, resistance to communism was perceived as an inseparable part of protecting the purity of the faith."


Offline The young fogey

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 07:29:13 PM »
Thanks. So, as the reason MP participation offended ROCOR no longer exists (no more USSR), there is no more reason for ROCOR not to join SCOBA if it wants to.
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Offline StephenG

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2006, 08:33:43 PM »
No doubt the ubiquitous Archbishop Mark of Berlin is considering the prospect even now................

What will those who have doubted ROCOR canonicity all these years make of the fact that ROCOR were invited to become founding members of SCOBA but declined?

Offline Elisha

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2006, 10:14:42 PM »
No doubt the ubiquitous Archbishop Mark of Berlin is considering the prospect even now................
I think someone mentioned in the past that His Eminence for at least a few years has ROCOR as a member of the Euro version of SCOBA - SCOBE?

What will those who have doubted ROCOR canonicity all these years make of the fact that ROCOR were invited to become founding members of SCOBA but declined?

Water under the bridge.  This is now.  We'll see.

Offline alexp4uni

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Re: ROCOR + MP + OCA?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2006, 11:52:45 PM »
Taken from ROCOR on the attitude on the relations with the outside world. The official bishops agreed upon the SOBOR along with other exiled Russian hierarchies who were not in attendance from Canada, United Kingdom, France and in South America (I believe in Argentina) trying to keep in contacts with Moscow Patriarch. Because of this Diaspora, the ROCOR's American Church here is to retain an an independence while maintaining close relations with the MP and being accountable to it only in matters of faith:

http://www.sobor2006.com/printerfriendly2.php?id=119_0_3_0


Quote
Conclusion

The position of the Russian Church Abroad in relation to the local churches and heterodox Christians has taken two positions: 1) a missionary one, and 2) one of guardianship.

I can only imagine if ROCOR would ever take an anti-modernist stance on the canonical churches and yet must be confronted on focusing on evangelizing in America and be in concession with other traditional churches which don't worry too much about this.