Author Topic: Ranking The Prophets?  (Read 2130 times)

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Offline OrthodoxAndrew

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Ranking The Prophets?
« on: May 04, 2006, 05:09:18 PM »
I was thinking about this the other day, and I would love to get some feedback from my fellow Orthodox here?

In Islam's Quran, it mentions some of the Prophets from the Holy Bible, like Solomon, David, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Job etc. But in Islam they make the biggest deal about Abraham and Moses, as if these are the two most important Prophets, at least in their view, before Muhammad came into the picture.

I noticed that in Orthodoxy, some Old Testament Prophets get more mention in general than the Prophets Abraham and Moses. We seem to look at the Prophets Elijah, David, Daniel, Isaiah, and few others the most. I was wondering if there is some sort of rank in the Church, as to which Old Testament Saints are considered more important than others? And why this is in our view?
"Do what you want in order to send me as soon as possible from this transient life to eternal life. I am Christ's slave, I follow Christ, for Christ I die that I may live with Him!" - St. John of Decapolis before his martyrdom at the hands of the Turkish Muslims.

Offline serb1389

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2006, 10:42:42 PM »
As you probobly know there are different "classes" of saints and feast days.  I'm sure some of these prophets are ranked higher than others.  You would have to look into that since I would have no idea where to start looking for something like that.  (Synaxarion?)  

Also, i think there is a FEAST DAY for the prophets... or at least 3 or them, and i think it ranks pretty high...not 100% sure about that...

does this help?
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Offline OrthodoxAndrew

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2006, 10:46:20 PM »
As you probobly know there are different "classes" of saints and feast days.  I'm sure some of these prophets are ranked higher than others.  You would have to look into that since I would have no idea where to start looking for something like that.  (Synaxarion?)  

Also, i think there is a FEAST DAY for the prophets... or at least 3 or them, and i think it ranks pretty high...not 100% sure about that...

does this help?

Yes, I should try to look into something like you mentioned above.

From what I understand about feast days, is that there is one day that marks all the Old Testament Saints (Forerunners). And many of them have there own feast days as well.
"Do what you want in order to send me as soon as possible from this transient life to eternal life. I am Christ's slave, I follow Christ, for Christ I die that I may live with Him!" - St. John of Decapolis before his martyrdom at the hands of the Turkish Muslims.

Offline serb1389

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2006, 10:48:50 PM »
For some reason I want to say that its more indepth than that.  I think there's a feast day just for prophets, but i'm not sure if ALL of them are mentioned that day.  It would be interesting to see if that's true and why...
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Offline OrthodoxAndrew

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2006, 10:57:19 PM »
For some reason I want to say that its more indepth than that.  I think there's a feast day just for prophets, but i'm not sure if ALL of them are mentioned that day.  It would be interesting to see if that's true and why...

I think they all are. But I know many of them also have their own individual days as well.

This is from www.oca.org

Quote
The Sunday that falls between December 11-17 is known as the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers. These are the ancestors of Christ according to the flesh, who lived before the Law and under the Law, especially the Patriarch Abraham, to whom God said, "In thy seed shall all of the nations of the earth be blessed" (Gen. 12:3, 22:18).


"Do what you want in order to send me as soon as possible from this transient life to eternal life. I am Christ's slave, I follow Christ, for Christ I die that I may live with Him!" - St. John of Decapolis before his martyrdom at the hands of the Turkish Muslims.

Offline Bizzlebin

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2006, 11:42:56 PM »
I think Isaiah is ranked 1st, and Jeremiah 2nd, but I don't know about the others.
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Offline OrthodoxAndrew

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2006, 01:43:59 AM »
I think Isaiah is ranked 1st, and Jeremiah 2nd, but I don't know about the others.

This is very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, though. Where did you hear that?

Thanks!
"Do what you want in order to send me as soon as possible from this transient life to eternal life. I am Christ's slave, I follow Christ, for Christ I die that I may live with Him!" - St. John of Decapolis before his martyrdom at the hands of the Turkish Muslims.

Offline Bizzlebin

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2006, 02:19:17 AM »
This is very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, though. Where did you hear that?

Thanks!

Actually, even though I just read it, I can't remember where I found it, lol. It's really just a further subdivision after the Major vs Minor classification.
Fashions and opinions among men may change, but the Orthodox tradition remains ever the same, no matter how few may follow it.

-- Fr. Seraphim Rose

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2006, 11:01:34 AM »
I suppose it just depends on which aspect of their impact you want to look at.  Moses and Abraham are considered the most important in the Quran largely because they had the biggest impact on the Jewish people... I mean, Moses is/was A#1 for them, even in Jesus' time (thats why it was such a big deal for Him to be greater than Moses).

But, of course, we consider Isaiah and the others more important because of their Messianic writings.  This is why Melchizedek is even considered one of the prophets of the OT, even though he appears in only 3 or 4 verses of the whole OT (well, he didn't write, but it was his living example that is the big deal).  Of course, if we're really looking at this, Moses still had a major contribution, because even though we know that the OT and the Pentateuch especially were probably written by a number of writers, tradition ascribes their authorship to Moses, which is a huge deal, considering some of the most important messianic prophecies are in there.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline OrthodoxAndrew

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2006, 03:05:58 PM »
Thank you for your response. It helped a lot!

However, what you said about certain books probably be written by a number of authors but are ascribed to the Prophet Moses has caught my attention. I was wondering if you could expand on that a bit more for me? For example, which books do you mean? And why do you think they were probably written by a number of authors? And is there anything in Holy Tradition that states that?
"Do what you want in order to send me as soon as possible from this transient life to eternal life. I am Christ's slave, I follow Christ, for Christ I die that I may live with Him!" - St. John of Decapolis before his martyrdom at the hands of the Turkish Muslims.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2006, 07:03:31 PM »
However, what you said about certain books probably be written by a number of authors but are ascribed to the Prophet Moses has caught my attention. I was wondering if you could expand on that a bit more for me? For example, which books do you mean? And why do you think they were probably written by a number of authors? And is there anything in Holy Tradition that states that?  

Well, tradition ascribes the Pentateuch (the 1st 5 books of the OT) to the authorship of Moses.  Critical analysis of various manuscripts and manuscript traditions, looking at the vocabulary, useage, etc, has found that the different books had different parts written down at different times.  The two theories need not be contradictory; just because the language used in parts of Genesis is centuries newer than in other parts of the same book doesn't mean that Moses wasn't the source of the story material; he just wasn't the one to write it down on papyrus/paper.  We don't necessarily see the fact that Moses wasn't the scribe to write the books down as an attack on the validity of the books - the books are inspired by God and transmitted though His people, whether or not we ascribe authorship to the correct person or not.

Does this help?
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline serb1389

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2006, 01:56:39 AM »
Yah there are even parts of Genesis that are in Aramaic, which Moses probobly would not have used (especially considering linguistic development)  But those parts are rare and far in between.  

Cleveland's answer is more complete, I just wanted to add an idea...
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Offline OrthodoxAndrew

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Re: Ranking The Prophets?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2006, 08:01:58 AM »
I see, that helps. Thanks for your answers, guys.
"Do what you want in order to send me as soon as possible from this transient life to eternal life. I am Christ's slave, I follow Christ, for Christ I die that I may live with Him!" - St. John of Decapolis before his martyrdom at the hands of the Turkish Muslims.