Author Topic: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?  (Read 15004 times)

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Offline Ebor

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2006, 09:55:23 AM »
Unless your favorite church father is Shelby Spong,

The former Episcopal Bishop of Newark is "John Shelby Spong" just for information's sake. And he's no "church father".  He got press because he wrote some books and said or did a few things that got picked up in the papers.  Plenty of people disagreed with him and dealt with some of his "re-thinking".  He's a retired bishop now and he doesn't get nearly as much attention as he used to.  Why bring him into the discussion, even as a snappy dig at another person?

Ebor
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2006, 04:40:59 PM »
Ebor

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Why bring him into the discussion

For my own part, I apologize for commenting on him. It is wrong for me to comment on someone that I know only through hearsay and accusation. Thus, I went out and bought one of his books today  ;D  The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love... my wife wasn't overly joyed to see that title!
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2006, 04:52:53 PM »
He's a retired bishop now and he doesn't get nearly as much attention as he used to.  Why bring him into the discussion, even as a snappy dig at another person?

Ebor

How about this:  based on his controversial and flat out unchristian (or even anti-christian) writings, being "retired" is no reason for ECUSA/Church of England NOT to condemn him post-humously (or post-retire date to be more precise).  It amazes me how you and Keble can seem to not understand our disdain for the ECUSA/Church of England given Spong's actions and the resulting non-action of his former confession.  By your fruits shall ye be known as they say...

Just sayin'.....no hostility intended. :)

Offline annaspencer

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2006, 06:02:57 PM »
Hi Matthew,
The reason why so many girls are immature is because they are young ...and/or stupid. The ones with an ounce of sense will grow out of conciously choosing idiot men to go out with, and the ones that don't grow out of it are stupid, you are better off without someone like that. When I was younger (maybe your age?) I thought all men were awful and I'd never want one, the thought of going out with such a moron (as I thought all men were) repulsed me, then I grew up and noticed that it was only a proportion of men who were as bad as I thought!! Maybe you are not looking in the right places, maybe you're not looking at all yet, I don't know, but don't be too harsh on girls who are just young and don't really know what they're doing yet!
Also don't listen to people who try to tell you you're not living in the real world if you have high hopes or expectations for yourself. It's not something to aim for to be just like everyone else. Not everyone gets to heaven, you do have to try! I don't think 'Everyone else did it' or 'it's evolution/my genes fault' are good excuses when it comes to sin.
I hope you find a nice, Orthodox, virtuous (but not self-righteous) wife for yourself when the time comes for both of you, and I'm sure you'll make a faithful and loving husband.

Offline GiC

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2006, 09:48:56 PM »
Could you care to explain why God has hard wired us to preocreate with as many women as possible? Perhaps you could find a Scriptural or patristic basis for such an assertion.
I am sorry if I am being too hard on you but you need to be able to provide a Scriptural or patristic basis for your reasoning. All you've provided so far are secularist assertions that contradict all Orthodoxy.
Even a Christian who believes in evolution should recognize that God created human sexuality exclusively for husband and wife.

I gave you a suggestion for a possible reason way from a theological perspective. I could go to the trouble of making the case for my point by arguing from anthropology, including records of primitive societies in the Jewish Scriptures; but I really don't think it would be worth anyone's time, because you're refuse to see the plain and simple truth even if it was laid right before your eyes...which it is...how many young men, if unfettered by morals, society, or responsibility, would choose to procreate with one and only one woman? There's a reason that such religions as mormonism and islam promise men large numbers of women, because that is what their most primitive urges desire. This is simply a reality of how humans evolved, we can also see it in other primates who evolved from similar ancestors. It also explains the physical differences between male and female, this difference does not generally exist in monogamous species.

Furthermore, I refuse to go there because it is pointless for me to argue sound scientific research (as well as a fact that is self-evident to any, even casual, objective observer of the Homo Sapien species). If you wish to live by the maxim that 'Ignorance is Strength,' then so be it.

Now, this is not to suggest that I oppose monogamy, independent of the theological reasons I actually believe it to be most benificial. It is the permanent solution to the problem of inequality between male and female and will ultimately help breed out most intra-societal violent crime.

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My AP biology teacher from high school, who happens to be both a devout Catholic and professional biologist, would insist that human sexuality is intended exclusively for husband and wife.

REALLY, your AP Biology teacher told you that? ::)

My AP Biology teacher had a tendency to brag about her sexual exploits in class (which was somewhat disturbing since her son, who was a friend of mine, was in my class, but he didn't seem to mind so, oh well)...point being, if you're going to make an appeal to authority at least appeal to a real authority; high school teachers generally don't make the cut, especially since the academic requirements for an education-science degree tend to be about half the requirements for a real science degree.
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Offline annaspencer

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2006, 12:18:16 PM »
Do you have a science degree, Gic? I think not, not EVEN an educational one.
(...if you do, could you let me know which university awarded you the degree, as I'd like to sign up, I'm sure at such an institution as would award YOU a degree, I would do rather well. Hm, I think I fancy rocket science, or maybe something along the lines of piggy aviation)!  :-*  ;)

Offline GiC

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2006, 01:54:55 PM »
Do you have a science degree, Gic? I think not, not EVEN an educational one.
(...if you do, could you let me know which university awarded you the degree, as I'd like to sign up, I'm sure at such an institution as would award YOU a degree, I would do rather well. Hm, I think I fancy rocket science, or maybe something along the lines of piggy aviation)!  :-*  ;)

My Undergraduate Degree is in Mathematics (and to quote Gauss, 'Mathematics is the queen of the sciences.'), and it's a theoretical Mathematics degree not one of those educational ones. My contempt for the 'educational' degrees came in the course of that programme, which required only about half the upper division classes that my degree required, thus turning out math teachers who lacked even a fundamental grasp of the field. Many of my professors thought the programme was a joke and the graduates often couldn't carry on conversations about basic number theory, grasp the fundamentals of topology, or even know what computability theory was. I did take almost as many physics classes as would be required for an 'educational' science degree, including a wonderful graduate level course in General Relativity...you can't help but love a field of science that makes extensive use of non-euclidian geometry and group theory and is playing with the applicability of ring and field theory to science. Let's see, I did get a minor in Computer Science, taking every Computability and Complexity theory class that was offered at either the graduate or undergraduate level (which was, unfortunately, only one graduate course) and was a research assistant for Evolutionary Computation of Neural Networks for a year. So, yes I have a fair amount of experience in the sciences and enough experience with the theory of evolution to know that the theory that homo sapiens are inherently monogamous is absurd and that anyone who would assert this theory is simply demonstrating ignorance (willful or otherwise) of the facts at hand. Infact it is a posistion that is so obvious that I would challenge one to find a single evolutionary psychologist, geneticist, or evolutionary biologist academic journal or other publication that advocates the idea.
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Offline jaderook

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2006, 02:25:22 PM »
My Undergraduate Degree is in Mathematics (and to quote Gauss, 'Mathematics is the queen of the sciences.'), and it's a theoretical Mathematics degree not one of those educational ones. My contempt for the 'educational' degrees came in the course of that programme, which required only about half the upper division classes that my degree required, thus turning out math teachers who lacked even a fundamental grasp of the field. Many of my professors thought the programme was a joke and the graduates often couldn't carry on conversations about basic number theory, grasp the fundamentals of topology, or even know what computability theory was. I did take almost as many physics classes as would be required for an 'educational' science degree, including a wonderful graduate level course in General Relativity...you can't help but love a field of science that makes extensive use of non-euclidian geometry and group theory and is playing with the applicability of ring and field theory to science. Let's see, I did get a minor in Computer Science, taking every Computability and Complexity theory class that was offered at either the graduate or undergraduate level (which was, unfortunately, only one graduate course) and was a research assistant for Evolutionary Computation of Neural Networks for a year. So, yes I have a fair amount of experience in the sciences and enough experience with the theory of evolution to know that the theory that homo sapiens are inherently monogamous is absurd and that anyone who would assert this theory is simply demonstrating ignorance (willful or otherwise) of the facts at hand. Infact it is a posistion that is so obvious that I would challenge one to find a single evolutionary psychologist, geneticist, or evolutionary biologist academic journal or other publication that advocates the idea.

Not all educators have an undergraduate education degree.  Some of us have B.A./B.S. and M.A./M.S degrees in our subjects as well as an M.E. so we can get our certification to teach. I even know a few k-12 educators with doctoral degrees in their respective fields (i.e. not an Ed.D.).  Just FYI...

Offline Ebor

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2006, 03:17:53 PM »
How about this:  based on his controversial and flat out unchristian (or even anti-christian) writings, being "retired" is no reason for ECUSA/Church of England NOT to condemn him post-humously (or post-retire date to be more precise).  It amazes me how you and Keble can seem to not understand our disdain for the ECUSA/Church of England given Spong's actions and the resulting non-action of his former confession.  By your fruits shall ye be known as they say...

Just sayin'.....no hostility intended. :)

There were and are plenty of Anglicans who spoke out against Spong's writings, "condemning" his works, if you will.  What do you expect us to do? Do you know about the attempts at Presentment?  Do you know what the process is to get rid of a sitting Bishop?  How much were you looking for things countering the retired Bishop of Newark? How much have good fruits of ECUSA/Anglicanism showed up in the newspapers?  Did you follow the proceedings of Anglican gatherings like Lambeth and the Primate's meeting in Ireland?

Or is the disdain only based on a few things without knowledge of other things that people have done?  How do you think we do not "understand your disdain"?   Objecting to using only the unfortunate or extreme examples that show up in the news is not the same thing as not "understanding" maybe.

Matthew777 made a dig at another poster suggesting that they accepted an extreme example from another Church.  How much does he know about Spong or the reactions against him I wonder.

Ebor
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Offline GiC

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2006, 03:33:32 PM »
Not all educators have an undergraduate education degree.  Some of us have B.A./B.S. and M.A./M.S degrees in our subjects as well as an M.E. so we can get our certification to teach. I even know a few k-12 educators with doctoral degrees in their respective fields (i.e. not an Ed.D.).  Just FYI...

I'm aware of that, unfortunately it's not nearly as common as it should be. The entire notion of the education degree should be scrapped and traditional college degrees required. The absurdity of the system becomes manifest when someone who is a full professor teaching at a prestigious university would be unable to teach the their subject at the secondary educational level in certain states, even if they wanted to, because they lack an education certificate/degree. To quote one of my mathematics professors commenting in disgust on the issue, 'You have four years to learn Mathematics and the rest of your life to learn how to teach it.'
« Last Edit: May 06, 2006, 03:34:02 PM by greekischristian »
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Offline annaspencer

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2006, 06:47:21 PM »
My Undergraduate Degree is in Mathematics

I'm going to take that as a no.  :P

Now Mathew777 is a nice young man who has some nice ideas about human nature, why not be nice to him and stop acting smug?  :-X

Offline GiC

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2006, 08:54:48 PM »
I'm going to take that as a no.ÂÂ  :P

Unfortunately Mathematics is often classified as a Science Degree, but I agree with you on this subject, to degrade the subject by comparing it to a common science is a disgrace...but I guess it has more in common with the sciences than the humanities, for example, the subject requires clarity of thought.

Quote
Now Mathew777 is a nice young man who has some nice ideas about human nature, why not be nice to him and stop acting smug?ÂÂ  :-X

If you recall properly, it was he that challenged my reasonable and scientific explanation that offered a reasonable and scientific answer to his initial question. Upon my obliging to answer such a broad question, it was he that had the audacity to question my explanation using illogical arguments to defend his irrational non-posistion and finally, used the argument of appeal to authority, appealing to his highschool biology teacher, whose opinion if supposed to offset the entire academic field of Evolutionary Psychology (apparently the fact that she's a papist with a degree in biology makes her a scientific authority that prevents us from even having to consider the innumerable articles written on Evolutionary Psychology).

So if I'm sounding a bit smug, that's because I am. The reason for my smugness is because my posistion is supported by an entire academic field and not merely by some high school biology teacher who, if her opinion on this subject is any indication of the person in question's logical abilities, couldn't reason their way out of a paper sack. Now if Matthew had said that this person had experience researching Evolutionary Psychology, this would be a different story, but from the vagueness with which he presented the person in question, I seriously doubt their academic credentials.
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Offline StBrigid

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2006, 06:41:23 PM »
I've often wondered similar things in reverse about men- why, despite Christian men's words about the Proverbs 31 woman and the like, most seemed as T&A-motivated as other men.  Maturity makes a difference in both cases, IMO.

I read something on Touchstone today along these lines:           

"Most young men, indeed the vast majority, ignore nice, modest, well-behaved girls (like me, I'm strongly tempted to say) and run after the feral cats, and even the most grounded of young women sometimes craves a bit of that attention, and is tempted to do anything for it. When you've known what it's like to be the girl whom no one asks out, who never gets asked to dance at a dance or party, and who's never told by anyone but her relatives and girlfriends that she looks nice, you'll understand the temptation."
http://merecomments.typepad.com/merecomments/2006/05/feral_cats.html#comments

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2006, 11:58:08 PM »
"Most young men, indeed the vast majority, ignore nice, modest, well-behaved girls (like me, I'm strongly tempted to say) and run after the feral cats, and even the most grounded of young women sometimes craves a bit of that attention, and is tempted to do anything for it. When you've known what it's like to be the girl whom no one asks out, who never gets asked to dance at a dance or party, and who's never told by anyone but her relatives and girlfriends that she looks nice, you'll understand the temptation."
http://merecomments.typepad.com/merecomments/2006/05/feral_cats.html#comments

Nice, and very true.
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Offline Tsarina

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2006, 01:08:02 PM »
Well, Casanova, maybe the young ladies don't like you BECAUSE you characterize them as fickle and immature...  ;) 

LoL, Matrona!

Casanova, perhaps you havn't met the nice ladies yet and only have experienced or heard of the women who don't know what they want and just date any kind of guy, probably to feel wanted? God knows.

They're many women and "MEN" who are immature. Most of the time, it's the immature who will run into the immature. I'm pretty sure a mature person wouldn't be able to stand a date with an immature person. Don't you think?
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Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2006, 06:08:21 PM »
For the moment, I'm going to ignore everything said on Charles Darwin's theory of sexual selection. I think that the real problem is that I haven't chosen females wisely. I need to be more selective and patient if I am to find a Christian willing to stand up for her faith.

Peace.
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Offline Tsarina

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2006, 10:30:07 PM »
For the moment, I'm going to ignore everything said on Charles Darwin's theory of sexual selection. I think that the real problem is that I haven't chosen females wisely. I need to be more selective and patient if I am to find a Christian willing to stand up for her faith.

Peace.

Now here is someone who is responsible and knows what they have to do in order to find the female they personally want.

Good for you, Matthew.
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Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2006, 11:09:40 PM »
I can't just jump into a relationship and expect that I can change the person, that never really works out.
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Offline Tsarina

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2006, 03:31:20 PM »
I can't just jump into a relationship and expect that I can change the person, that never really works out.

Many people think they can change the person, but in the end they realize that they couldn't and become too dissapointed and then begin to thin that all women are immature yadda yadda.

You know what your doing Matthew, mabe you can share some advice to other men out there? lols.
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Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2006, 06:24:46 PM »
Well, I haven't changed my mind that too many young women are fickle and immature, but so are too many young men. There's more to life than drinking and sex, I wish more of us would realize that.

Peace.
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Offline Tsarina

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2006, 11:14:49 AM »
Well, I haven't changed my mind that too many young women are fickle and immature, but so are too many young men. There's more to life than drinking and sex, I wish more of us would realize that.

Peace.

There is definatley more to life than drinking and sex! We have the way, the true way given to us, called "The Orthodox Way".

... Wait, isn't that a book? lols.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2006, 03:41:48 PM »
Well, I haven't changed my mind that too many young women are fickle and immature, but so are too many young men. There's more to life than drinking and sex, I wish more of us would realize that.

Peace.

Preachin to the choir, dude.
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2006, 04:06:43 PM »
Well, I haven't changed my mind that too many young women are fickle and immature, but so are too many young men. There's more to life than drinking and sex, I wish more of us would realize that.

Yeah, you forgot the eat part of "eat, drink, and be merry." ;)
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2006, 04:14:44 PM »


You know what your doing Matthew, mabe you can share some advice to other men out there? lols.
Lord have mercy. PLEASE don`t encourage him.
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Offline GiC

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2006, 04:16:03 PM »
Lord have mercy. PLEASE don`t encourage him.

Preach it, brother... ;)
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2006, 04:20:31 PM »
Lord have mercy. PLEASE don`t encourage him.

Amen and amen!
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline Tsarina

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2006, 07:19:28 PM »
Lord have mercy. PLEASE don`t encourage him.

LoL.  :P
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Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2006, 05:12:16 PM »
After dating girls who care about morality and integrity, rather than the fleeting pleasures of this world, I've realized that it is not all young women who are fickle and immature. The ones who are will change rather quickly after their hearts are broken enough times by equally immature men. My problem really was that I needed to raise my standards and be more selective as to who I dated. I'm glad that my cynicism was only temporary.
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Offline Zoe

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2006, 05:16:53 PM »
Hurray, Matthew.
NI!!!!!!

Offline TomS

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #74 on: August 01, 2006, 07:06:37 PM »
After dating girls who care about morality and integrity, rather than the fleeting pleasures of this world...

Sounds like a real party!  ::)


Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2006, 07:34:46 PM »
Sounds like a real party!ÂÂ  ::)



Lots of fun can be had within the limits of God's law.
He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Offline TomS

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2006, 07:40:54 PM »
Lots of fun can be had within the limits of God's law.

Dude! You are a PARTY animal!ÂÂ  Slow down!ÂÂ :D
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 07:41:21 PM by TomS »

Offline retzev

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2006, 07:51:17 PM »
If you are meant to be married, your lady is out there.  Be praying for her now, wherever she is, that she won't have to give away pieces of her heart bit by bit, along the way to finding you.  Then she has all those other memories to take to bed with her...

That is one of the most well articulated statements I've ever read explaining why God forbids premarital sexual relations. Beautiful. Thank you, Calligraphqueen.

Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2006, 07:54:47 PM »
Dude! You are a PARTY animal!ÂÂ  Slow down!ÂÂ :D

Do you have a problem?
He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Offline TomS

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2006, 09:21:56 PM »
Do you have a problem?

Not at all. Party on, Dude.

Offline GiC

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2006, 10:48:44 PM »
Not at all. Party on, Dude.

Come on Tom, what could possible be more fun than drinking matthew's beverage of choice at his party and socializing with his party guests of morality and integrity. Now that is a way to spend your friday or saturday night.
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Offline Matthew777

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2006, 12:34:52 AM »
Are you mocking the teachings of Orthodoxy? That is not tolerable.
He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Offline kansas city

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2006, 12:46:39 AM »
I somehow doubt a board of Orthodox people are going to sign on and mock the 'teachings of Orthodoxy'.  I'm pretty sure if any mocking was going on it was in response to people being really pleased with themselves.


Offline GiC

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2006, 02:24:38 AM »
I somehow doubt a board of Orthodox people are going to sign on and mock the 'teachings of Orthodoxy'.ÂÂ  I'm pretty sure if any mocking was going on it was in response to people being really pleased with themselves.

Oh, don't ruin the poor boy's delusions of grandeur...he was probably convinced that he was being persecuted for being such a perfect Orthodox Christian. ;)
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Why are so many young women fickle and immature?
« Reply #84 on: August 02, 2006, 07:01:57 AM »
This topic is done.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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