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Author Topic: Isaiah 22  (Read 932 times) Average Rating: 0
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Marion
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« on: May 03, 2006, 11:43:51 AM »

Forgive me if I ask a question that has been asked before. I did a search of this site but did not find any reference to Isaiah 22. Without quoting it let me remind the reader this is where a prime minister is chosen to govern in the kings abscence. He is given the keys to the kingdom. As a Roman Catholic I have used this verse as part of my defence of the papacy. I haven't seen it addressed yet by the Orthodox. My question is not to cause or seek arguement but rather to learn. Montalban I enjoy reading your posts and have learned much from them and I DO check out your references. Please also comment on the rebellion of Moses sister and the rebellion of Korah. These also traditionally form part of the defence of the papacy
                                your little brother in Christ
                                Marion
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In the garden
He made it all so simple
He who lives by the sword
Shall die by the sword
And He healed the servants ear
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icxn
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2006, 01:35:15 PM »

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Chelcias. (Isa. 22:20)

Eliakim means "resurrection of God" (cf. St. Maximus the Confessor, Procopius of Gaza) and Chelcias, "portion of God." So it seems that it refers to Christ not the Pope and this interpretation is in agreement with the "Commentarii in Isaiam" of Procopius of Gaza (5-6 AD), which is based on the works of Church Fathers before him. Here's the Greek text in case you want to verify it:

Ὁ δὲ Ἐλιακεὶμ, Θεοῦ ἀνάστασις ἑρμηνευόμενος, σύμβολον Ï„á¿â€ Ï‚ νέας καὶ καινá¿â€ Ï‚ ἱερωσύνης ἐγένετο, ἣν ἡ τοῦ Σωτá¿â€ ρος ἡμῶν ἀνάστασις ἐν τῇ ἑαυτοῦ Ἐκκλησίᾳ καθ’ ὅλης Ï„á¿â€ Ï‚ οἰκουμένης συνεστήσατο. Κέκληται γὰρ Χριστὸς ἀντ’ ἐκείνων ἀρχιερεὺς, ὡς Ἐλιακεὶμ ἀντὶ Σομνά. Κατὰ γὰρ τὸν Ἀπόστολον. «Οὐχ ἑαυτῷ τις ἁρπάζει τὴν τιμὴν, ἀλλὰ καλούμενος ὑπὸ τοῦ Θεοῦ. Καθὼς ὁ Χριστὸς οὐχ ἑαυτὸν ἐδόξασεν εἰς τὸ γενηθá¿â€ ναι ἀρχιερέα, ἀλλ’ ὁ λαλήσας πρὸς αὐτὸν, «Σὺ εἶ ἱερεὺς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα κατὰ τὴν τάξιν Μελχισεδέκ.» Λαβεῖν δὲ λέγεται καὶ τὴν Δόξαν τοῦ Δαβὶδ, τοῦτ’ ἔστι τὴν ἐπὶ τὸν νοητὸν Ἰσραὴλ ἀρχήν τε καὶ βασιλείαν· «Οὐ γὰρ πάντες φησὶν, οἱ ἐξ Ἰσραὴλ, οὗτοι καὶ Ἰσραὴλ,» καὶ Ï„á½° ἐπὶ τούτοις. Ἀρχιερεῖ δὲ γεγονότι Χριστῷ οὐκ ἔσται, φησὶν, ὁ ἀντιλέγων.

-- EDIT --

St. Cyril of Alexandria also interprets the passage as referring to our Lord Jesus Christ. See Patrologia Graeca, Vol. 70 pg. 517, "Commentarius in Isaiam prophetam."
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 01:54:08 PM by icxn » Logged
montalban
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2006, 05:58:59 AM »

Forgive me if I ask a question that has been asked before. I did a search of this site but did not find any reference to Isaiah 22. Without quoting it let me remind the reader this is where a prime minister is chosen to govern in the kings absence. He is given the keys to the kingdom. As a Roman Catholic I have used this verse as part of my defence of the papacy. I haven't seen it addressed yet by the Orthodox. My question is not to cause or seek argument but rather to learn. Montalban I enjoy reading your posts and have learned much from them and I DO check out your references. Please also comment on the rebellion of Moses sister and the rebellion of Korah. These also traditionally form part of the defence of the papacy
 ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚ your little brother in Christ
 ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚ Marion
Thank you for reading my posts.

I don't see any connection between governance under Moses and under the NT. We for instance have a New Covenant, and Jesus is the High Priest, who is always present. There is therefore no need to have someone stand in for Him.

As to the 'keys' to the Kingdom, they were given to all the Apostles. I know Catholic sites point this out as being Peter's privilege alone...
“In Matthew 16:19, Jesus gives Peter "the keys to the kingdom" and the power to bind and loose. While the latter is later given to the other apostles (Matt. 18:18 ), the former is not. In Luke 22:28—32, Jesus assures the apostles that they all have authority, but then he singles out Peter, conferring upon him a special pastoral authority over the other disciples which he is to exercise by strengthening their faith (22:31—32).”http://www.catholic.com/library/eastern_orthodoxy.asp

This is just simply not true. Looking at the verses just preceding it,

Luke 22

24 Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest.

25 Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors.

26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.

27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.

28You are those who have stood by me in my trials.

29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me,

30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=luke+22&version=NIV

 

We can see that Jesus had an opportunity to name Peter as the leader, and he does the very opposite. He says that they all should be equal. He speaks to them all when he says that they are to be appointed to the Kingdom. THEN he turns to speak to Simon Peter to tell him that he will betray Him.


Even an un-Orthodox such as Origen recognised that all the Apostles were given the Keys

see the chapter "The Promise Given to Peter Not Restricted to Him, But Applicable to All Disciples Like Him."

at http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-10/anf10-48.htm



John had the keys (he's known as 'the Son of thunder'...

”For the Son of thunder, the beloved of Christ, the pillar of the Churches throughout the world, who holds the keys of heaven, who drank the cup of Christ, and was baptized with His baptism, who lay upon his Master’s bosom, with much confidence, this man now comes forward to us now” John Chrysostom, “Homilies on the Gospel of John, Homily 1.1”

quoted in Schaff, P, “Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers” (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume XIV, p1 Also at: http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-14/npnf1-14-05.htm#P175_1913
« Last Edit: May 04, 2006, 06:02:13 AM by montalban » Logged

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Marion
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2006, 02:35:36 PM »

Thank you for your replies. I can see the issue of the keys to the kingdom more clearly now. There was a second part to my question with dealt with the rebellion of Miriam and Aaron in Numbers 12 and later in Numbers 16 with the rebellion of Korah (referred to in the letter of Jude vs 11). I suspect I know the answer but would like to check it against the Orthodox understanding. Scripture warns us not to lean unto our own understanding so I am trying to be cautious.
            your little brother in Christ,
            Marion
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In the garden
He made it all so simple
He who lives by the sword
Shall die by the sword
And He healed the servants ear
(Apologies to Author)
montalban
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2006, 09:27:39 PM »

Thank you for your replies. I can see the issue of the keys to the kingdom more clearly now. There was a second part to my question with dealt with the rebellion of Miriam and Aaron in Numbers 12 and later in Numbers 16 with the rebellion of Korah (referred to in the letter of Jude vs 11). I suspect I know the answer but would like to check it against the Orthodox understanding. Scripture warns us not to lean unto our own understanding so I am trying to be cautious.
 ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚ your little brother in Christ,
 ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚ Marion
I left that part because I have no knowledge of the issue.
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Fàilte dhut a Mhoire,
tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
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