Statement on Iraq

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Robert:
anastasios:

Thanks for saying what I wanted to say, but was afraid to say.



Bobby

JoeS:
Me thinks, that if our Metropolitans stick strickly with topics pertaining to our faith and avoid the political (which I agreed that he do) that they would not be taken seriously by the secular world.  There is a tendency to show how we "feel" about everything that gains the attention of the media, espcially in sensitive situations like the subject of Iraq.  Issue a statement about upcoming Synods and the like and nothing gets printed.  But how does one sit still and watch worldly things unfold without saying something especially when you represent so many of the faithful?  Its a tough situation because you may be in trouble for both sides of the issue.  Its bad enough we argue over who belongs to the true faith without getting into political squabbles. :-

JoeS


Quote from: anastasios on October 16, 2002, 02:21:56 PM

My thoughts:

1) We need to take out Saddam Hussein now.  It's pretty obvious that he is building weapons of mass destruction.  The question boils down to "are preemtive strikes morally justified?"  I say yes, if the evidence is clear.  How much sense does it make to sit around and wait for him to actually build a bomb?

2) I agree that the US policy is hypocritical, though.  My opinion is funding to Israel should be gradually tapered off according to a schedule and let the UN make a buffer zone--a big fence even--between Israel and Palestine.  I don't agree with cutting off funding totally, because although I am pro-Palestinian, I know what the Arabs would do to the innocent Jews living in Israel if they got  the chance.  There needs to be at least a generation of separation where one side is NOT getting US Aid, and then someone (not just us) can try and figure out how to let the two nations coexist.

3) I don't understand how Met. Phillip can say the war in Afghanistan was "unsuccessful."  We went in, took out Al Qaida and the Taliban, the people were happy, we prevented further threats, and a democratic regime is forming.

4) The Balkans are totally different than Iraq, for God's sake!  Serbs and Kosovars were and are fighting over ethnicity and land.  Iraq is lead by a despotic nut.  Big difference.

In Christ,

anastasios

Sick Canary:
Quote from: JoeS on October 16, 2002, 04:42:39 PM

Me thinks, that if our Metropolitans stick strickly with topics pertaining to our faith and avoid the political (which I agreed that he do) that they would not be taken seriously by the secular world.  

I strongly suspect you are right.  And that is what I think we still call "posturing."

The young fogey:
The bishops wouldn't and shouldn't be taken seriously if they came up with something and called it 'Orthodox (Catholic, Oriental, Assyrian) math', 'physics' or 'economics'. Such are ruled by the natural order, and no theorizing can change that, as the Communists found out.

But the faith affects just about everything else, including our politics. Do we vote for proabortion politicians? Then we can't call ourselves orthodox, apostolic Christians. The same goes for going with the herd and supporting an unjust war. The American people learnt nothing from Sept. 11. Pull out of Palestine and pull our troops out of the Mideast.

Seraphim Reeves:
Sick Canary,

Quote

"cause untold harm to countless children and other civilians "

Oh?  Is untold harm being done now?  Do we care?

I'm not sure how to understand this.  I think there are people who are informed who care.  I care - it'll be the innocent in Iraq who will have the most to lose from Bush's arm-chair-warrior fantasies, and the young men who get drafted to keep up such an incredible campaign (not just to fight a war, but also the occupation which will be necessary afterwards.)

Quote

"In addition, the geo-political imbalance this war would cause "

Are we expert on geo-political balance now?

I have no reason to think he's not reasonably informed.

Quote

"to allow the United Nations inspectors to complete their mission"

And  the big obstacle to UN inspectors doing their job is the US???

Frankly, yes.  One part of the "UN inspector" story which has not been given enough exposure, is the fact that Saddam and his people were (unfortunately) "correct" in pointing out that the USA was using these inspections as an opportunity for spying (sending spies along with inspection parties, and using them as occassions to set up surveilance equipment.)  This is something that has been revealed in the mainstream American media (thus hardly some obscure, conspiracy theoretist rumour).

Quote

"History has proven that this rarely comes to fruition"

Oh?  And now we are expert on the history of nationbuilding?

Why the cynicism on your part, besides your view that religious leaders should be a-political?  I'm not a big fan of Metropolitan Phillip, but even I think this is rather harsh (at least given what you've quoted for us.)

Quote

Vladika could be absolutely correct on every issue and still miss the mark.  Is this really what we need from our bishops?  It only serves to make Orthodoxy look worldly and uninsightful.

And others would say that if heiararchs act as if there is no crisis going on about them, they're behaving like a bunch of irrelevent old men.  You can't satisfy everyone, obviously.

As for being "uninsightful", I suppose you think this because you don't share his particular opinions?  I'm only wondering why you say "uninsightful"?

Quote

I have no opinion about Iraq but I have a burning opinion that it should take a great deal to pry our bishops away from the ministry of the word and onto politics.

World events do have ramifications for souls.  In a climate that encourages jingoistic nonsense and blind "patriotism" (really not patriotism, but nationalism, which is another, and very evil, thing), where one even hears people saying "off the cuff" that they could care less how many "sand niggers we have to go in and kill", there needs to be some concientious objection.

Seraphim

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