Because if you had actually read the previous 60 pages of this thread before posting ...
I've followed it from the beginning and have only seen your unfounded propositions and invectives against those who disagree - but nothing else. You still misrepresent my position as well - the main argument is not 'it is simply done this way', but in fact that the priestly office as a male office is theological in origin (see Book 45, esp. title 20 of the Collection canonum hibernensis
for binding Scriptural, Conciliar, Patriarchal, Patristic and other decisions for the Christian theological basis of why "women of any kind are not to receive any male or priestly office."
The main reason I haven't engaged in any real debate is because I have yet to be confronted with any real points that warrent serious consideration.
Or rather, you've set your face and won't consider anything further.
My concern is for justice and righteousness ...
But appararently only for some and not all.
But what you have here done is confirm my previous suspicions that the church is viewed as some's men's club and needs to be preserved as such, no matter such an institution is becoming irrelevant to modern women and modern men alike.
You didn't get confirmation from me - again, you are already looking for it in everything. I'll give you a hint though: it isn't there. "Men's club" is a far cry for any description of Christianity as a whole (males simply don't go in most Christian groups) - Orthodoxy is one of the few that has maintained some equity of the sexes as to participation.
...men alone should be priests because they're more prideful than women.
Another example of this deconstructionist tendency to import the reader's own prejudices into the text rather than receive the message the author intends to communicate.
As opposed to the Orthodox Church, where the youth of Greece and Eastern Europe have simply ceased attending and make a mockery out of those who do.
Things are just as bad where there is women's ordination - and women's ordination would do *nothing* to improve that situation.
And the governance and sacraments of our Church are unrelated to our salvation?
Of course not, but not all are called to the various offices. The fact is that our sex is not an accident, but derives from the will of God. The calling to holy orders is "before the foundation of the world" - like it or not, our sex is also not a chance happening.
But what I can state is that the same calling to the service of the Church can be observed in both men and women;
You can state it, like saying 'fairies can be observed' - but it isn't obvious as you claim it is.
... thus we are left with two possibilities ...
No, there are more possibilities - such as 'grace' does not derive from the calling. Or, that the calling includes the facts of birth (our biology being willed by God according to what he would have of us.)
Nice theory about living in a separate world, but the records of the numbers of Christians in the military, royal courts, government, etc. would tend to dismiss this thesis.
More than a theory - we know that it was quite the standard, as the Church had lists of professions for which one could not be admitted to communion while they continued in them.
... isolated and cut off from the world ...
Again, a flawed view of that matter - "in the world, but not of the world" is not 'isolated' or 'cut off' (nor is monasticism 'isolated' or 'cut off'.)
As for monasticism, that is a cute little theory about it being a continuation of the life of the early Church...first time I've actually heard that one.
Really. It is quite the standard pov in the field of Monastic Studies - I would suggest Dr. Janet Burton (Vice-President of the Royal Historical Society, Reader in Medieval History at the University of Wales, Lampeter.) Even Fr. Alexander Schmemann echoes it in "Introduction to Liturgical Theology" see "The Role of Monasticism" in chapter 3. St. John Cassian as a contemporary witness describes the origins of monasticism in his Conferences: "Those who still maintained the fervour of the apostles ... left their cities and association with those who thought that carelessness and a laxer life were permissible to themselves and to the church of God; and they began to live in rural and more sequestered spots, and there, in private and on their own account, to practise those things which they had learnt to have been ordered by the apostles... so that the whole system of which we have spoken originated with those disciples who had distanced themselves from the evil that was spreading." from the translation by Boniface Ramsey (New York, Newman Press, Ancient Christian Writers, 1997.) See also Owen Chadwick "Western Asceticism" (1958), Derwas Chitty "The Desert a City" (1966), D. Knowles "Christian Monasticism" (1969) particularly chapter 1. That view, of monasticism continuing what was the Apostolic life of the Church is also explicit in much of monastic writing.
In actuality it arose out of the pagan stoic communities and jewish stoic communities .... The Origins of the Christian Mystical Tradition: From Plato to Denys by Andrew Louth lays this out fairly well.
The new edition isn't due out for another month, if I'm not mistaken - and I think that is quite a misreading to see his thesis which was about the *Platonic* influences on the Christian mystical tradition.
... I have witnessed first handed injustices perpetrated against men seeking ordination as well...
The question is how a matter of 'ordination' could be unjust - again, ordination for *anyone* is not amongst the Rights of Man. The great majority of us will attain salvation without so much as being tonsured to any minor order. It only need be that some continue in Holy Orders (ie, those whom God has chosen and called before the foundation of the world) for us to receive the grace of the sacraments.
...of course, the injustice of which I seek ... it is that people who are more qualified than many who are ordained are not even considered for ordination because of gender alone.
I call into question what you consider 'qualified'. The epistles are Scripture as well, and dealt with the manner in the 1st c. as to both qualifications for holy orders as well as the roles of women (and men.)
It is that some people are, for genetic reasons alone, denied the opportunity to even be considered for ordination. Regardless of how much grace is given to them by the Holy Spirit, they are dismissed because they do not meet someone's understanding of the genetic ideal.
Ordination is not an opportunity, award, or any type of affirmation of human qualities. Still, your claim that some are given 'grace...by the Holy Spirit' who does not meet the qualifications of the Tradition is an assertion that you have yet to produce any evidence for.
LMAO...I love your wording, 'free women from teh horrors of battle,' it's so 1984ish...Freedom is Slavery. Infact, the 'liberation' proclaimed by the Synod of Druim Ceat proved so well received that it wasn't even immediately enforcable as the women warriors refused to lay down their arms. Disarming a people and denying them the means for self-defence as a means of liberation...LOL. Goes to show you, the philosophy of Mein Kampf can be just as well received today as it was in the 1930's, just so long as we dress it in slightly different clothes.
Okay - more invectives - invoking images of Fascism, Nazism. Godwin's law *could* be invoked. Again, you've missed what I was talking about - the Cain Adamnain
(Lex Innocentium) of 697. To call the Lex Innocentium as 'slavery' is contrary to both its text and motives. A few quotes from the 1905 translation by Kuno Meyer:
Cumalach (slave, chattel) was a name for women till Adamnan came to free them. And this was the cumalach, a woman for whom a hole was dug at the end of the door so that it came over her nakedness. The end of the great spit was placed upon her till the cooking of the portion was ended. After she had come out of that earth-pit she had to dip a candle four man's hands in length in a plate of butter or lard; that candle to be on her palm until division of food and distribution of liquor and making of beds, in the houses of kings and cheiftains, had ended. That women had no share in bag or in basket, nor in the company of the house-master; but she dwelt in a hut outside the enclosure, lest bane from sea or land should come to her chief.
The work which the best women had to do, was to go to battle and battlefield, encounter and camping, fighting and hosting, wounding and slaying. On one side of her she would carry her bag of provisions, on the other her babe. Her wooden pole upon her back. Thirty feet long it was, and had on one end an iron hook, which she would thrust into the tress of some woman in the opposite battalion. Her husband behind her, carrying a fence-stake in his hand, and flogging her on to battle. For at that time it was the head of a woman, or her two breasts, which were taken as trophies.
Now after the coming of Adamnan no woman is deprived of her testimony, if it be bound in righteous deeds. For a mother is a venerable treasure, a mother is a goodly treasure, the mother of saints and bishops and righteous men, an increase in the Kingdom of Heaven, a propagation on earth.
Adamnan suffered much hardship for your sake, O women, so that ever since Adomnan's time one half of your house is yours, and there is a place for your chair in the other half; so that your contract and your safeguard are free; and the first law made in Heaven and on earth for women is Adamnan's Law.
So - what did Christianity free Celtic women from? Being treated superstitiously as 'tainted', real slavery, lack of property, coercion to fight, ritual misogynistic maiming, disenfranchisement, being used as sexual property, rape without punishment, imputation of adultery without recourse, denial of their offspring, and much else. Read further here: http://members.aol.com/michellezi/translations/CainAdamnan.html
Even the Synod of Druim ceat (a little more than a century earlier) you have misrepresented - it was not to keep women from self-defense or to cloister them, but as 'innocents' to be released from the cycle of Male dominated ritual violence and slavery to which they had truly been *victims*.