Oh my, ozgeorge, you really are trying hard to put words in my mouth.
The "Economissa" is a completely different icon.
There are, in fact two icons which the Greeks and Slavs call Economissa
(the Slavonic form is Domostroytel'nitsa
): the Abbess of Athos type, and the other, to which you are referring, which shows the Mother of God enthroned with her Child, flanked by Sts Athanasius of Athos, and Michael of Synnada.
I used the term "church art" to refer to the following image posted in this thread: ...You stated that I was wrong to call this "Church art" and had to call it "iconography":
Your statement of:
This isn't just about women Priests. It's about Church history, facts, hagiographies, documents, church art, the concept of binding and loosing and authority in the Church.
was worded as a general (and quite correct) comment on the invalidity (if I may use that word) of heterodox justifications for female ordination and a female episcopate. It did not come across as referring specifically to the mosaic you posted. My comment about "church art" versus "iconography" therefore cannot be construed as commenting specifically about the validity or otherwise of the mosaic.
OK, so you think that the above mosaic depicting "Bishopess Theodora" is an icon. Fine.
Thiis is what I actually wrote, ozgeorge:
So, ozgeorge, even if this woman was indeed a bishop (which I seriously doubt), is it really possible to extrapolate from this that it were once permissible for women to be ordained to the priesthood?
Any mention there of approval of this image as an icon? Please.
Then I post this Icon painted (spare me the nonsense about having to say "written" - they are the same in Koine Greek)
You may be pleasantly surprised to hear that I share your distaste for the term "writing" icons. I am quite aware of the Greek term graphe
, which refers to both the written word and to pictorial representations. If you care to search through any of my posts on iconography, you will find I have always used the word paint
, not write
to describe the act of producing an icon.
... by an Athonite monk of St. Annes Skete on the Holy Mountain depicting the Theotokos as the Abbess of the Holy Mountain, and you tell me that it is not an Icon
Athonite sketes and monasteries have also been host to, and/or the source of, images such as the so-called New Testament Trinity and of St Joseph the Betrothed holding the infant Christ, after the manner of icons of the Mother of God. Yet it is clear, doctrinally and theologically, that such images are not canonical. Athonite provenance per se
does not automatically bestow canonicity on an image.
So according to you the Bishopess Theodora mosaic is an example of iconography and I must not dare refer to it as anything else,
See my earlier point above. You are putting words in my mouth. Conversely, did I not give you the courtesy of post #108, in reply to that of Cleveland?
He may have used the term to include both proper Iconography and other non-Iconographic pictorial depictions.
To be fair, let ozgeorge answer that, lest he accuse either of us of putting words in his mouth.