Internet Infidels

[montalban]

Are any people here aware of Internet Infidels? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIDB) From what I can gather they are dedicated to attacking Christianity (online at least), providing resources for people, including a debate forum.

Some people here may be members of their group

[annaspencer]

Okay GiC own up!  

[ozgeorge]

Okay GiC own up!  

He's busy teaching me the secret handshake.

[annaspencer]

 

[montalban]

Okay GiC own up!

Do you know of this forum: IIDB?

[annaspencer]

I'd never heard of it. I would let's all of us converge on them and kick some atheist butt, but what's the point? It'll only make their cause and their website bigger, maybe if we ignore them they'll go away!

[montalban]

I'd never heard of it. I would let's all of us converge on them and kick some atheist butt, but what's the point? It'll only make their cause and their website bigger, maybe if we ignore them they'll go away!

I first found out about them when I was on another forum; supposedly a Christian one (subsequently I was banned). Several members of that forum were also members of IIDB. When I was debating some Moslem on one subject (on the Christian forum) I'd suddenly be swamped by people I'd never run into before. It was such a huge forum, I was wondering how word had got round.

Then a mod told me that she too was a member of IIDB and noticed one person arrive there and put the call out for help.

So, when I was debating the merits/demerits of Islam, suddenly I'd get all these arguments attacking Christianity; as if one out-weighed the other.

I did join IIDB, but never posted there as I realised it was a waste of time.

[Asteriktos]

Hey, thanks!  I have yet to find a good community online to discuss this type of stuff (agnosticism, skepticism, etc.). Almost all of the ones I've been to so far have conversations like...

"Uh, Christianity sucks."
"Yeah. Yeah they lie."
"I know. I'm so glad I think for myself now."
"Yeah, the Bible is evil. EVIL!"
"I hope those Christians all die. They are liars. I hate them!"
"Yeah. They are so intolerant as well."
"I know!"

Anyway, maybe this one will be a bit better...

[montalban]

Hey, thanks!  I have yet to find a good community online to discuss this type of stuff (agnosticism, skepticism, etc.).
Anyway, maybe this one will be a bit better...

You can discuss skepticism here, can't you? But who knows, if you go there you might be so shocked by their hatred of God that you'll convert back

[Asteriktos]

You can discuss skepticism here, can't you?

Not really...  The forum you gave seems to be what I was looking for though.

[GiC]

Not really...  The forum you gave seems to be what I was looking for though.

Oh, yes you could...choose an issue, take your side, tell me what side to take and what midset to debate (and/or discuss) it from, then off we go...and southserb is a trial lawyer, so I'm sure he's more than capable of such an approach

[Nacho]

Hey, thanks!  I have yet to find a good community online to discuss this type of stuff (agnosticism, skepticism, etc.). Almost all of the ones I've been to so far have conversations like...

"Uh, Christianity sucks."
"Yeah. Yeah they lie."
"I know. I'm so glad I think for myself now."
"Yeah, the Bible is evil. EVIL!"
"I hope those Christians all die. They are liars. I hate them!"
"Yeah. They are so intolerant as well."
"I know!"

Anyway, maybe this one will be a bit better... Smiley

Hey, are you familiar with this forum?  -  http://ex-christian.net/

Reading through some of the post over there can be really depressing. Some of course are nothing more than juvenile remarks like you stated above, others do have a real gripe and I can see their point of view. Oddly, I didn't see any venting against the Orthodox Church, but mostly against the protestant groups which makes sense. Thank God for the true Church!

[EkhristosAnesti]

I used to listen to "the Infidel Guy" on his radio program where he'd host debates between theists and atheists (and agnostics etc.). He was generally quite respectable and fair; he would ridicule bad theistic arguments just as bad as he'd ridicule bad atheistic arguments. The website is also quite resourceful and informative, and it usually offers the theistic point of view on the issues in question, to allow readers to draw a balanced conclusion (though an honest inquirer should obviously go beyond the material offered on their website).

[SouthSerb99]

...and southserb is a trial lawyer, so I'm sure he's more than capable of such an approach

I'm actively petitioning the site admins to add a "no trial lawyer bashing" at OC.net!  

[montalban]

Hey, are you familiar with this forum?  -  http://ex-christian.net/

Reading through some of the post over there can be really depressing. Some of course are nothing more than juvenile remarks like you stated above, others do have a real gripe and I can see their point of view. Oddly, I didn't see any venting against the Orthodox Church, but mostly against the protestant groups which makes sense. Thank God for the true Church!

The problem is that in the west Orthodoxy has a remarkably low profile, so if we can all get together raising it, then they can attack us too  

It's an odd thing to me that some people who attack things actually accept them as normative; for instance some Satanist groups take the Catholic Mass and reverse it; so they've already decided that the Catholic Mass is what they should be reacting against.

[Asteriktos]

I'd really like to thank those who persuaded me to ask more questions here. Had I asked certain questions elsewhere, it probaby would have taken me much longer to come to certain conclusions... but here I get it straight from the source. To seek truth is a difficult thing, and one often wants to stop along the road and pitch his tent, and never move again. I can't count the number of times, over the past few months, that I've been spurred on by a comment here or there on this forum, to keep on going down the road, to not settle, to see what I can see from the top of the next hill.

The good-natured pokes at my uncertainty, the attempts at refuting my posts, the kind and caring remarks some have sent my way.. they have all helped me a great deal. However, something that has also moved me along is the constant closing of eyes; the casting aside of facts because they are inconsistent with the monolithic, unquestionable truth (as subjectively held by biased people--as we all are); and the blind guarding of dogma not for the sake of truth, but for the sake of being right.

You know, in spite of everything, sometimes you do want to just settle down alongside the road, if only for a bit. The solitude of your own thoughts being your only company... forced to face yourself, rather than ramble on to others while you ignore your own self. Forced to water the dead tree that is in your soul, to see if maybe, just maybe, you can get something to grow. Grow, if only just a little bit. And then perhaps return renewed, or wander off into the wilderness in a different direction, or who knows what else.

To live is to think,
To learn,
To know,
The consciousness of thought,
Grasped tightly.

To love is to feel,
Your heart,
To show,
To conquer all souls,
Whether meek or mighty.

To smile is to give,
To free,
To fill,
The fracturing of nihilism,
In a glance.

To fail is to live,
The pride,
To still,
To find some reason,
For each day to advance.

[Νεκτάριος]

Thank God for the true Church!

That is a dangerous statement!  Not because I don't believe Orthodoxy is the true Church, but because of the complacency and mediocrity it justifies.  Honestly if one looks at Orthodoxy it just a tiny immigrant church outside of its native countries, where it is just another overly secularized institution in its homelands.  

[montalban]

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8763.msg119822#msg119822 date=1147073753]
That is a dangerous statement!  Not because I don't believe Orthodoxy is the true Church, but because of the complacency and mediocrity it justifies.  Honestly if one looks at Orthodoxy it just a tiny immigrant church outside of its native countries, where it is just another overly secularized institution in its homelands. ÂÂ
[/quote]
It has its moments. It was once a church that was able to spread more easily, hence it's the 'native' church of so many different countries now.

No other church has had quite so many obstacles; such as Islam dominating the lands of the orginal great four churches to recent Communist pogroms.

[GiC]

It has its moments. It was once a church that was able to spread more easily, hence it's the 'native' church of so many different countries now.

No other church has had quite so many obstacles; such as Islam dominating the lands of the orginal great four churches to recent Communist pogroms.

Because the Glory of the Church is the Glory of the Empire and the Glory of the Empire is the Glory of the Church...or to quote the letter of Patriarch Anthony of Constantinople, of which I am so fond to have quoted many other times on this board:

'Therefore, my son, you are wrong to affirm that we have the church without an Emperors for it is impossible for Christians to have a church and no empire. The Empire and the church have a great unity and community - indeed they cannot be separated.'

It was more than simply the Empire, it was the Church too that fell to the Turks in 1453.

[observer]

Reading some of the posts here, I think we have been invaded already!

[sdcheung]

Try http://www.landoverbaptist.net

I'm a Moderator over there.

[PeterTheAleut]

Because the Glory of the Church is the Glory of the Empire and the Glory of the Empire is the Glory of the Church...or to quote the letter of Patriarch Anthony of Constantinople, of which I am so fond to have quoted many other times on this board:

'Therefore, my son, you are wrong to affirm that we have the church without an Emperors for it is impossible for Christians to have a church and no empire. The Empire and the church have a great unity and community - indeed they cannot be separated.'

It was more than simply the Empire, it was the Church too that fell to the Turks in 1453.

This isn't Orthodoxy as I know it.  This is pure, unadulterated Hellenism, which is rather offensive to us Russkis.   (Well, I'm not a Russki, but my parish church once was.)

The Byzantine Empire is a ship that sunk centuries ago.  For the Church to survive, she must separate herself from the Empire in order to not go down with the ship.

[sdcheung]

The Byzantine Empire is a ship that sunk centuries ago.  For the Church to survive, she must separate herself from the Empire in order to not go down with the ship.

Anathema!

[jaderook]

Are any people here aware of Internet Infidels? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIDB) From what I can gather they are dedicated to attacking Christianity (online at least), providing resources for people, including a debate forum.

Some people here may be members of their group

Yes, I'm familiar with the site (I used to post there).  I know a few people over there as well.  Many are very bitter and it is absolutely pointless for any Christian to debate/post/whatever there.  The profanity and constant negative comments about theists were enough to keep me from doing much more than lurk (and I was a Deist at the time).  It isn't much more than an 'amen' corner for disgruntled former theists who would love nothing more than to lure one more person with a bad church experience or doubts onto the road to deconversion.  They're quite open about their agendas.  Simply reading the forums will grieve your spirit.  It's one of the most depressing boards I've ever been to. 

(Although, there used to be an Orthodox poster over there.  He linked to an interesting article about hell.  Just one of the many things that got me looking into Orthodoxy.)  Theist=irrelevant=illogicial=evil=Republican=stupid ad nauseum

[jaderook]

Hey, are you familiar with this forum?  -  http://ex-christian.net/

Reading through some of the post over there can be really depressing. Some of course are nothing more than juvenile remarks like you stated above, others do have a real gripe and I can see their point of view. Oddly, I didn't see any venting against the Orthodox Church, but mostly against the protestant groups which makes sense. Thank God for the true Church!

About three years ago I posted my deconversion testimony at ex-christian.net.ÂÂ  The guy who runs the site refused to take it down at my request.ÂÂ  It's one of the things I truly regret doing and there's nothing that can be done.ÂÂ  You're right, it is a depressing site.ÂÂ  The people there are hurting and bitter and all too willing to lash out.ÂÂ  They really need our prayers.

ETA:  I haven't thought of that site in quite a while.  So, I e-mailed the mod again (as the last time I requested my deconversion story to be taken down was two years ago) and this time I was told that they would remove it.  Let's hope it will be done quickly. 

[Νεκτάριος]

It was more than simply the Empire, it was the Church too that fell to the Turks in 1453.

καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, καὶ πύλαι ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς.

[Fr. David]

Because the Glory of the Church is the Glory of the Empire and the Glory of the Empire is the Glory of the Church...or to quote the letter of Patriarch Anthony of Constantinople, of which I am so fond to have quoted many other times on this board:

'Therefore, my son, you are wrong to affirm that we have the church without an Emperors for it is impossible for Christians to have a church and no empire. The Empire and the church have a great unity and community - indeed they cannot be separated.'

It was more than simply the Empire, it was the Church too that fell to the Turks in 1453.

This isn't Orthodoxy as I know it.  This is pure, unadulterated Hellenism, which is rather offensive to us Russkis.  (Well, I'm not a Russki, but my parish church once was.)

The Byzantine Empire is a ship that sunk centuries ago.  For the Church to survive, she must separate herself from the Empire in order to not go down with the ship.

Amen.  The Byzantine Empire is dead; long live He Whose Kingdom is not of this world.

[annaspencer]

This isn't Orthodoxy as I know it.  This is pure, unadulterated Hellenism, which is rather offensive to us Russkis.  (Well, I'm not a Russki, but my parish church once was.)

The Byzantine Empire is a ship that sunk centuries ago.  For the Church to survive, she must separate herself from the Empire in order to not go down with the ship.

I agree. Gic you should think more when you're posting (or in general  !) I've rarely seen you post anything remotely Orthodox. Often you come out with argumentative, contraversial or just plain weird stuff! ...Yet you claim to be Orthodox. What makes you think you are Orthodox?

[GiC]

I agree. Gic you should think more when you're posting (or in generalÂÂ   !) I've rarely seen you post anything remotely Orthodox. Often you come out with argumentative, contraversial or just plain weird stuff! ...Yet you claim to be Orthodox. What makes you think you are Orthodox?

I am a loyal subject of His All Holiness Bartholomew the Oecumenical Patriarch, Archbishop of Constantinople and New Rome...that's what makes me think I'm Orthodox. I didn't know that gullibility and irrational thought were requirements for being Orthodox...though some here seem to think they are.

[montalban]

This isn't Orthodoxy as I know it.  This is pure, unadulterated Hellenism, which is rather offensive to us Russkis.  (Well, I'm not a Russki, but my parish church once was.)

The Byzantine Empire is a ship that sunk centuries ago.  For the Church to survive, she must separate herself from the Empire in order to not go down with the ship.

I agree. Firstly, we are in debt to the Greeks, but this debt doesn't mean we must be Greek. The Church is a living entity and it lives in English-speaking lands, and others; Japan, Korea et al. We are all fully Orthodox

[PeterTheAleut]

I didn't know that gullibility and irrational thought were requirements for being Orthodox...though some here seem to think they are.

So, who are you accusing of gullibility and irrational thought?

[GiC]

So, who are you accusing of gullibility and irrational thought?

The statement was deliberately vague for a reason

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