Author Topic: Smoking and Drinking  (Read 9450 times)

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Offline yBeayf

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2006, 01:23:33 AM »
Quote
And that makes it allright ?

Yep. ^_^ It's called (surprise!) moderation.

Offline BoredMeeting

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2006, 12:20:24 PM »
Yep. ^_^ It's called (surprise!) moderation.
As a wise man once said about "smoking weed", "you can argue about whether it's right or wrong, but it sure is illegal!"

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2006, 12:29:26 PM »
As a wise man once said about "smoking weed", "you can argue about whether it's right or wrong, but it sure is illegal!"

Yes, and disobedience to civil authority, unless made absolutely necessary by our obedience to God, is in itself immoderate and sinful.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2006, 12:51:47 AM »
Well, I must admit.  I was a BAD boy last night.  I said to myself, "It's Pascha.  What the heck."  So I lit up a big fat STOGIE and smoked it!  My first cigar in two years.  8)


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« Last Edit: May 02, 2006, 12:54:24 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline BoredMeeting

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2006, 10:15:14 AM »
So I lit up a big fat STOGIE and smoked it!  My first cigar in two years.  8)
I average about 10-12 per year.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2006, 12:21:53 PM »
I average about 10-12 per year.

One per month is not bad.  8)
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Offline Σoφíα

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2009, 01:53:18 PM »
Hello everyone,

This thread is very old but I wanted to comment on the subject, which is all imho.  Anything that is done for the wrong purpose is sinful.  What do I mean for the wrong purpose here...smoking for example (that is pure tobacco, not the poison they have on the market now) can be medicinal...so smoking for this purpose would not be sinful.  Cannabis has been used for thousands of years to treat diverse ailments (which I will not go on listing now) and can be stilll used today if it were not illegal in some countries and states, that is if it's not mixed with all sorts of garbage (pure and naturally grown) it can be used for pain relief, antiemetic, anxiolytic, and so on in moderation...that is baked in cakes or one or two puffs from the smoked form.  It's basically the valium/vicodin of the plant world and NOT addicting like the alchemical/pharmaceutical opioid drugs we find to be legal.  How many people take valium and other anxiolytics or pain medication and do not feel sinful because they're doing it to treat an ailment?  Or pump their children up with Rittalin and Concerta.  So it's all based on the intention.  Also drinking, same ideas as the previous.  I mean let's be honest, when we drink a shot of vodka and we say that it's not going to make us dizzy and it's just for the "taste" is a little hypocritic.  All that being said, methamphetamines, heroin, cocaine, and all that are certainly garbage with NO benefits.  In conclusion it's all about one's true intention.  Smoking (cigarettes) is horrible...very addicting. 

Offline simplygermain

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2009, 03:00:54 PM »
But should something that leads to some sort of unnecessary tissue damage be taken?  Is not smoking and taking drugs damaging, or is moderation "healthy"?  Should we also take substances that make us "high"?

God bless.

Mina
I don't think this is a good arguement, skateboarding, sports, even running can cause tissue damage and all effect endorphine levels to produce a "runner's high" with side effects of tunnel vision, elation and a come down as well.
Best theory: Keep your nose clean, your vices in check, and speak to your spiritual father about what you consume. If you can't do the latter, you're hiding something.
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2009, 03:07:18 PM »
Just a question...

When a fasting rule says that wine is allowed on Sat. & Sundays, does that include beer?

Also, I know getting drunk is bad and something we need to repent for...
But I learned last night, that even after seven beers, you can still pray. (something bad happened and I started praying the Jesus prayer)...

Offline simplygermain

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2009, 03:25:35 PM »
 :laugh: After seven beers all I can do is pray! "Dear God, make the room stop spinning! I'll never (vomit) do it again (vomit)...I'm sorry I lost control (vomit) make it stop...." Man its been a while since I prayed that prayer. Not to say I'm not still capable of another St.Patty's Day fiasco. :D
As far as I know beer or liquor is o.k. too, in moderation.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2009, 04:58:06 PM »
Just a question...

When a fasting rule says that wine is allowed on Sat. & Sundays, does that include beer?
I think this a question more about our fasting rules, which have been addressed on many other threads, and that this inquiry therefore falls outside the scope of this discussion.
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2009, 06:22:48 PM »
I know, I was just looking for a quick answer, not an extended discussion.

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2009, 07:28:07 PM »
As far as I know, in the Slavic world, beer has never been considered an alcoholic beverage. Ukrainian and Russian priests unanimously say that during fasts, an Orthodox faithful should abstain from HARD LIQUOR (i.e. vodka, cognac, whiskey etc.). During strict fast, he/she should also abstain from wine (never on Sundays though), but beer is never mentioned as something worth abstaining from on any fast, even the strictest.

To those who say that their head spins, etc. - guys, if you drink a few liters of pure water, believe me, your head will spin, too. It's just what physiologists call "hypervolemia."
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Offline simplygermain

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2009, 07:38:18 PM »
Heorhij - I think this is misleading...Are you saying you can not get drunk off of beer? The micro-brews in the Northwest are as much as 13.5 % (hiccup) :P
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2009, 07:50:00 PM »
Heorhij - I think this is misleading...Are you saying you can not get drunk off of beer? The micro-brews in the Northwest are as much as 13.5 % (hiccup) :P

If you drink liter after liter after liter of it - then yes, of course you can get drunk. But if you are an adult of average dimensions, drinking 2-3 12-ounce bottles of beer, even the so-called "strong" beer, will not make you drunk. And consuming more than that is as insane as consuming several liters of water - and, mind you, consuming several liters of water will lead to results that are as devastating as consuming a lot of alcohol.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 07:51:16 PM by Heorhij »
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Offline mike

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2009, 07:55:52 PM »
And consuming more than that is as insane as consuming several liters of water - and, mind you, consuming several liters of water will lead to results that are as devastating as consuming a lot of alcohol.

Like seeking the toilet in rush whith your knees crossed.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 08:02:36 PM by mike »
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2009, 08:11:40 PM »
Anything that hinders your relationship with God should be avoided. A few of these do not hinder mine in any way:

There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2009, 08:14:08 PM »
And consuming more than that is as insane as consuming several liters of water - and, mind you, consuming several liters of water will lead to results that are as devastating as consuming a lot of alcohol.

Like seeking the toilet in rush whith your knees crossed.

Exactly, brother!  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline simplygermain

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2009, 09:21:13 PM »
In regards to fasting, if wine and beer can both not only get you drunk, but have similar alcohol content, shouldn't we abstain except for "wine days".? I guess it comes back to our own personal fasting...
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Offline Tobit

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2009, 09:25:33 PM »
Smoking (cigarettes) is horrible...very addicting. 

Most American brand cigarettes (though not all) yes (they are laced with sugar and all kinds of chemicals not normally found in tobacco). Most cigars and most foreign cigarettes, no.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2009, 10:48:04 PM »
And consuming more than that is as insane as consuming several liters of water - and, mind you, consuming several liters of water will lead to results that are as devastating as consuming a lot of alcohol.

Like seeking the toilet in rush whith your knees crossed.
One can even drink so much water in a short period of time that his electrolyte balance becomes dangerously diluted, thus causing a condition known as water intoxication that is as deadly as alcohol poisoning.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 10:50:36 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Rowan

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2009, 01:12:52 AM »
I always thought the view that Christians shouldn't drink or smoke was taken from Puritanism rather than being supported by the Bible.
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. ~Philippians 4:8; St Paul

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2009, 10:17:00 PM »
Priests aren't allowed to smoke, or shouldn't... Smoking (that is, cigarettes, etc...) is very harmful to your health... Drinking isn't so bad, unless it's in excess...

Offline Rowan

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2009, 09:14:10 PM »
Priests aren't allowed to smoke, or shouldn't... Smoking (that is, cigarettes, etc...) is very harmful to your health... Drinking isn't so bad, unless it's in excess...

Haven't heard that before.
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. ~Philippians 4:8; St Paul

Online Marc1152

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2009, 09:29:22 PM »
Priests aren't allowed to smoke, or shouldn't... Smoking (that is, cigarettes, etc...) is very harmful to your health... Drinking isn't so bad, unless it's in excess...

Haven't heard that before.

Wasnt there a big Huff when the Campus Crusade for Christ became Othodox and was celebrated with cigars?
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2009, 10:36:49 PM »
It has to do with the Priests setting an example and not defiling their own bodies by harming them. It also has to do with the addiction associated with smoking... At least, this is what I've understood from what I've learned/heard...

Offline jckstraw72

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2009, 10:54:37 PM »
as far as smoking marijuana -- ask yourself how is it making you more Christ-like, or is it making you more animal-like with loss of inhibitions and what not? also, Romans 13 has pretty strong words about obeying the government.

Offline stashko

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2009, 11:02:17 PM »
Priests aren't allowed to smoke, or shouldn't... Smoking (that is, cigarettes, etc...) is very harmful to your health... Drinking isn't so bad, unless it's in excess...


The Serbian Orthodox Metropolitan Christopher smokes, i gave him a cigarette ,when the[ H] Liturgy of the dormition feast ended.and we were walking to the Hall for the dinner after... ??? ???
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 11:12:13 PM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2009, 11:09:29 PM »
I don't think it's like an official Canon or something they can be deposed for... Just something that Priests really should not do... Sure I know Priests aren't perfect, my dad (a protestant minister) isn't perfect... But being an Orthodox Priest is something very different than other forms of Christianity. They lead by example, they are the foremost to show Christ to their flock.

Offline stashko

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2009, 11:17:29 PM »
Conn---
I said  Preosveceni i didn't know that you smoke ,,He answered the black earth heals all ills,and that was that.... the end..
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2009, 11:53:42 PM »
"He answered the black earth heals all ills"

Doesn't this strike you as somewhat wrong for a Priest/Bishop to say?

Offline stashko

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2009, 12:01:36 AM »
"He answered the black earth heals all ills"

Doesn't this strike you as somewhat wrong for a Priest/Bishop to say?


Im still trying to figure it out what he meant by it.....in serbian how he said it,,,,,Црна Земља Лечи Сваки Болест....
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2009, 12:15:08 AM »
:laugh: After seven beers all I can do is pray! "Dear God, make the room stop spinning! I'll never (vomit) do it again (vomit)...I'm sorry I lost control (vomit) make it stop...." Man its been a while since I prayed that prayer. Not to say I'm not still capable of another St.Patty's Day fiasco. :D
As far as I know beer or liquor is o.k. too, in moderation.
Is St. Patrick's Day on the Orthodox Calendar? :P
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Offline LBK

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2009, 12:31:32 AM »
Is St. Patrick's Day on the Orthodox Calendar? :P

Indeed it is, ChristusDominus. St Patrick the Enlightener of Ireland is a pre-schism Western saint, so he is considered by the Orthodox as a saint worthy of veneration, and his fesast day is March 17. In fact, this past Sunday was the liturgical commemoration of the saints of Britain and Ireland. The Irish don't have a mortgage on him these days. As for the excesses of St Paddy's day, well ... that's another story.  :o
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 12:33:29 AM by LBK »
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2009, 02:53:09 AM »
He was an amazing saint.

 I wonder why people have to get plastered on that specific day.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2009, 03:55:02 AM »
Back on topic, please. ;)
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Offline CRCulver

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2009, 07:33:56 AM »
It has to do with the Priests setting an example and not defiling their own bodies by harming them. It also has to do with the addiction associated with smoking... At least, this is what I've understood from what I've learned/heard...

I've met a few Orthodox priests in the US and Romania who smoke pipes or cigars, so it's not unheard of. But I'd say that the advice that priests not smoke makes sense mostly in that many parish priests, struggling to get by and raise families, simply cannot afford the added expense of tobacco.

Offline simplygermain

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #82 on: July 01, 2009, 07:51:43 PM »
My wife smokes a few a day but not many, I chew tobacco a little (quit smoking this way because my lungs would hurt from it [after twenty years of smoking]). We both abstain from it on Sunday until the evening. I really don't see too much of a problem with it. And coming from my past history with addiction, I'm not doing so bad...It's all relative. We struggle like anyone else but as far as vices go, I don't see it as bad as quite a bit of other things I used to be inclined to do. For others, I say to them smoking "too much" is bad, eating "too much" is bad, drinking "too much: is bad, period. But I love a good lamb roast, or tobacco, or a drink when I can. I just don't let it rule my life. Are there times when I'm tempted that I fail? Yes. Are there times when I'm tempted that I refrain? Yes.
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Offline IPC

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #83 on: July 01, 2009, 08:57:53 PM »
The answer of this question is found in the motives, what's behind.

In some cold cold regions, a glass of herbal strong liquor is used not only to warm up, but also as a natural remedy for some diseases.

Eating with wine is customary in some families, even children have their own small glasses for wine, this is done as part of the meal.

The use of alcohol is bad when it's used for the bad reasons, like when it's used in parties to "have fun", when it's used to enjoy it's effects, and "relax"  "feel better after a loss" "forget a difficult thing", etc..

When someone becomes addicted to alcohol, even if the person does not get "lost", he is not allowed to receive communion, until he stops the vice, as this is considered a bad habit.

According to tradition, smoking is forbidden by the Church, and a smoker can never become a bishop, a priest, a monk, not even a chantor. If a person during his catecumenate does not stop smoking, he is unlikely to be blessed to accept the Holy Baptism.

Any person who smokes can not receive the communion until he stops smoking, for smoking is considered a vice, and a way of legal substance abuse or even drug addiction.


« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 09:03:58 PM by IPC »
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Offline simplygermain

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2009, 09:08:47 PM »


According to tradition, smoking is forbidden by the Church, and a smoker can never become a bishop, a priest, a monk, not even a chantor. If a person during his catecumenate does not stop smoking, he is unlikely to be blessed to accept the Holy Baptism.

Any person who smokes can not receive the communion until he stops smoking, for smoking is considered a vice, and a way of legal substance abuse or even drug addiction.



Maybe in your world...?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 09:11:58 PM by simplygermain »
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #85 on: July 01, 2009, 09:56:30 PM »
I am amazed at the outdated and false information prevalent amongst the posters on this thread. I am not talking about the faith-related aspects (except may be IPC who has his own little world) but about the scientific and factual knowledge that exists today about smoking and drinking.

Nicotine is one of the worst substances one can try. It is very easy to get addicted to and very few people, especially during adolescence, can resist it. The same goes for most other substances because during adolescence the center in the brain that we normally use for decision making is undergoing change and not terribly effective (adolescence starts with puberty and lasts until age 25 for fmales and 27 for males, according to brain imaging studies). The main life cycle problem is that the habits that we form during this time imprint themselves on us and plague us the rest of our lives. (Check out CDC's Healthy Schools site: http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/healthtopics/).

Substance affect different people in different ways. Research shows that even very small quantities of alcohol, for example, can affect some people under certain conditions and impair their judgment. The latest finding is about the presence of a gene in some folks that may make them predisposed to alcoholism. Other recent findings indicate that THC, the psycho-active substance in marijuana damages one's genes--proving Darwin's theories in a perverse way. I would invite all to check out SAMHSA's site for further information (http://ncadi.samhsa.gov/

I think Peter the Aleut's initial post and much of Mina's posts were on the money. If you are going to drink, do so moderately (women-1 drink, men-2 drinks max) and do not drive--you might kill somebody. Please avoid nicotine at all costs. In addition to its addictive qualities, it affects to arteries by narrowing them, and when the effect wears off, the arteries go back to their normal diameter. In the meantime, if you have plaque in your arteries, the constriction/relaxation cycle is bound to release a chunk, and that chunk can wind up causing an infarction (blockage of the arteries feeding your organs, such as heart, lungs and brain).

In any case, if you want to drink you should also know that red wine seems to be your best bet. A study that was just released showed at wine cuts the risk for some sorts of cancer by half, while hard liquor and beer doubled the risk. Other studies have shown that red wine may have more beneficial effect than white wine.

Total disclosure: I work for a state agency on substance abuse services.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #86 on: July 01, 2009, 10:22:29 PM »
Quote
while hard liquor and beer doubled the risk.
hmm... so vodka is a bad idea???

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #87 on: July 02, 2009, 01:37:51 AM »
Quote
while hard liquor and beer doubled the risk.
hmm... so vodka is a bad idea???


The truly bad idea in that image is the fact that you're drinking Vodka with a name like "McCormick" out of a plastic bottle. Since when are the Irish known for their vodka???!!

Dear boy, if you're going to drink vodka, do it right. GreyGoose or Kettle One all the way.

Remember, never drink from the well. Cheap liquor is distilled less than expensive liquor, and your body will pay for it in the morning.

Pay with your wallet, not your body. Drink the good stuff that is distilled more.

It will prevent you from drinking too much, and you'll feel better the next day.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2009, 08:09:26 AM »
McCormicks comes from here in the Kansas City area just on the NW side of town. The vodka is quadruple(sp?)-distilled. Also, I dunno why those are in plastic bottles because mine is in glass...
http://www.mccormickdistilling.com
from their site: "McCormick Distilling, located in historic Weston, Missouri, is the oldest continuously operating distillery in the U.S." (est. 1856)

Heres what I have:
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 08:16:08 AM by 88Devin12 »

Offline CRCulver

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Re: Smoking and Drinking
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2009, 08:43:42 AM »
The use of alcohol is bad when it's used for the bad reasons, like when it's used in parties to "have fun"

So why did Christ provide more wine at the wedding at Cana when the celebrants had already had quite a bit? Why does the Psalmist thank God for wine that "gladdens the heart of man"? While all-out drunkenness is bad, the Christian tradition has never opposed the use of alcohol to liven festivities.

Quote
According to tradition, smoking is forbidden by the Church, and a smoker can never become a bishop, a priest, a monk, not even a chantor.

True for some areas, not true for others.