Author Topic: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses  (Read 10745 times)

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Offline irene

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shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« on: April 28, 2005, 12:05:07 PM »
A couple questions I"m wondering about.....

Are prayer shawls used in the Orthodox Church?  I've heard of women in churches getting together to knit them.

I always wear a prayer rope bracelet.  My first one has really lost it's shape, the second one is shredding a bit at the knots, and another was very, very tight and broke.  The last one seemed like it was for an infant's wrist!  Does anyone have recommendations for a place to purchase them that has worked out well?

Last question....I really like the 3 bar crosses.  Can any group of Orthodox wear them?  Or are they specific to Russian?  I attend Greek Orthodox.  Okay to wear it there or if I visit any other Orthodox Church?

Thx!
Irene

Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2005, 02:56:05 PM »
A Greek cross is an Orthodox cross a three bar Russian cross is an Orthodox cross; I will even be controversial and say that a Celtic cross is an Orthodox cross. If you like it wear it!

Never heard about prayer shawls. I thought that was an Orthodox Jewish practice.

If you are very petite, Light and Life's small prayer rope will fit comfortably around your wrist

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2005, 04:56:16 PM »
BrotherAidan is correct about crosses I do believe. Wear any cross you like. I've worn a Coptic cross for 36 years and my priests never complained.
One might hear a strict Greek state that no cross should have a 'raised' image of the Lord, others more strict even, say no image at all, but this might not hold true in all Orthodox traditions.
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Offline irene

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2005, 05:18:30 PM »
Thanks for your replies!

When you mention "raised" image of the Lord,  are you referring to a crucifex as the RCC oftentimes wear?

My wrist is pretty much an average wrist size as far as i know, lol.     I was surprised how small the  prayer rope bracelet i received was when ordering from a place online.    It was beautiful, but no matter how hard i tried, that bracelet wasn't budging!

I've heard of Greek Orthodox Churches making prayer shawls.   Maybe they are used for prayer at home?

Oh, one more thing....does anyone out  there make their own prayer ropes?  I'm thinking of looking into that.  Might be easier with beads.

Thanks again!
Irene


Offline Jennifer

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2005, 05:29:43 PM »

If you are very petite, Light and Life's small prayer rope will fit comfortably around your wrist


I have this chotki and it doesn't fit around my wrist and I'm very small-boned.  My hands and wrists are very small so I doubt it would fit many adults. 


Offline Matthew777

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2005, 07:18:51 PM »
I wear a Russian cross but I'd like to find a wooden tau cross, like Saint Antony.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 02:59:08 PM by Matthew777 »
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Offline MsGuided

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2005, 10:43:55 PM »
Oh, one more thing....does anyone out there make their own prayer ropes?

While she is not on the forum for the moment due to the Lenten season, our beloved poster Donna Rose has made a number of prayer ropes.  I'm sure she would be able to guide you to a place to learn to make them yourself.

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Offline irene

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2005, 11:48:16 AM »
thx!

i admire her for giving up the net for lent.  hope to do that someday!

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2005, 12:24:19 PM »
When you mention "raised" image of the Lord, are you referring to a crucifex as the RCC oftentimes wear?

Yes, that is correct.

Quote
Oh, one more thing....does anyone out there make their own prayer ropes? I'm thinking of looking into that. Might be easier with beads.


You might also consider obtaining your prayer rope from a monastery. That way you would be assured of its being well constructed with the proper prayers and the monks or nuns would surely appreciate your support.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Sabbas

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2005, 07:49:15 PM »
My Cross has this design http://www.gallerybyzantium.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=byzg&Product_Code=1314
The difference is I bought it from a Russian company and it only cost $25.
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Offline QuoVadis

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2005, 12:19:08 AM »
Seeing I have looked into monasticism etc., I also looked into learning how to make a prayer rope (as I may need to know in the future). After much prayer and patience, I learnt how to tie them. If you would like one, I would be glad to make one for you. Then it would be best to get it blessed by your priest.

Being a relatively new convert (3 years now - even though my Dad's family is Orthodox, and I grew up knowing some things about the Church), as I said, I taught myself to make them, but stupid me, never even thought of asking my priest to bless! Well... I'm still learning :)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 12:20:08 AM by Katherine »
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Offline Donna Rose

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2005, 10:37:23 PM »
Christ is risen!

hi Irene and Katherine and all, :)

Quote
Being a relatively new convert (3 years now - even though my Dad's family is Orthodox, and I grew up knowing some things about the Church), as I said, I taught myself to make them, but stupid me, never even thought of asking my priest to bless!  Well... I'm still learning :)

I am not EVEN a convert yet (Chrismation happening in 2 weeks haha but catechumen for about a year), so you are way ahead of me - i have several prayer ropes i have made and i use, and also several i have made for friends, but havent had my priest bless them - i will look into getting that done. frankly, i havent made a prayer rope since last year because ive been so busy, but technically i know how to do it. i do agree that purchasing from a monastery or church is ideal because they are more likely to be made prayerfully, but making it is nice to be able to guage how big the knots are so you can get it to fit your wrist. http://www.wattfamily.org/prayerope.html this is how i learned.

God bless you as you begin to learn this skill, if you choose to do so.

Donna Mary
hmmmm...

Offline Jennifer

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2005, 11:27:53 PM »
I asked my priest to bless my chotki and he said that wasn't done.  Is that true? 


Offline Donna Rose

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2005, 12:03:18 AM »
Quote
I asked my priest to bless my chotki and he said that wasn't done.  Is that true?

it's interesting you say this, because i have a friend that says that blessing icons, while done, is not *necessary* since they are blessed naturally by use and veneration, which makes sense. perhaps the same applies to prayer ropes - the more they are used, the more holy they become. makes sense to me - but im no priest :)
hmmmm...

Offline choirfiend

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2005, 02:25:52 AM »
I received a prayer rope as a gift from Bishop Thomas of the AOA and he said they had been made by Serbian monks and I believe he blessed them. I'm sure it can differ in practice.
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Offline Tikhon29605

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2005, 05:23:10 AM »
Refusing to bless something, esp. something used in one's Christian life, like a prayer rope, sounds a tad modernist to me. My priest blesses stuff for us all the time. He blesses icons, crosses, prayer ropes etc. Every icon I have in my home he has blessed, and this is quite NORMAL in my parish. He even blesses people in Church that are going to be traveling during the week, we call those "traveling blessings."

Offline irene

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2005, 11:57:25 AM »
Jennifer, I am really beginning to wonder about your priest!   He can't( for probably less than a minute) bless something?  Even if he doesn't habitually do that, he can't see that someone is requesting something that is causing no harm?   It's a good thing it's him and you, and not him and me.....because I think he would have gotten a punch in the nose by now.   (not very ladylike, but he is really pushing the envelope in many ways).

I will use my prayer rope to pray for him!  And to thank God I don't have the opportunity to knock him one!

Irene

Offline evyenios

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2005, 12:54:55 PM »
Aristokles -

What is a Coptic Cross? What does one look like? Where can a person find one? Do you have pictures?
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Offline choirfiend

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Offline coptic orthodox boy

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2005, 11:00:05 PM »
IC XC NIKA
Being Coptic Orthodox myself, I was thrilled to see the late Stevie Ray Vaughan (man, that man could play the blues) wearing a Coptic cross.  I've noticed I'm rather random, so sorry to all.  :-
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Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2005, 04:39:14 PM »
Glad to know SRV wore a coptic cross

Some chant is in a minor pentatonic scale - the scale of the blues!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline ChuckNoland

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2005, 06:50:19 PM »


If anybody wants to order a prayer rope from a Monastery, go to WWW.stanthonysmonastery.org , they are made by THE KOMBOSCHINI KING of Florence Arizona.

He taught me how to make them, but now that I am home the knot does not turn out right at the end, I do not know which step I am flubbing......Kyrie eleison.

Offline Fr. David

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2005, 11:29:33 PM »
Is there ANYWHERE one can get a prayer rope for under $20 total?!  I've only seen one priced for under that -- at oramaworld.com for $13.50 -- but then shipping is NINE DOLLARS!  Nnngh!  >:(  The St. Xenia Sisterhood USED to sell them for $15, but they've stopped taking orders due to their having to fill backorders right now.

Any other leads?

Your Resident (perhaps spoiled?) Cheapskate,

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Offline choirfiend

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2005, 11:40:10 PM »
Yea, theyre $8 most places---you mean the wrist-sized ones?
try this, chotki and shipping for $12..
http://www.ocrb.org/
The wrist ones cost $5.50 here...
http://www.oramaworld.com/index.php?cPath=7000_7900&osCsid=b2d5c576121781c0cb002db71894557c
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Offline Fr. David

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2005, 06:36:32 AM »
Yea, theyre $8 most places---you mean the wrist-sized ones?

Oh.  Ah -- heh.  No.  100-knot.  And anyways, I did find one here for $14, though (of COURSE, right after I throw my little hissy fit... :-[)

Thanks anyway, CF.
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Offline troy

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2005, 09:13:03 AM »
I found a 100-knot chotki on eBay, of all places, for under $20.

Offline TonyS

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2005, 10:42:15 AM »
He can't( for probably less than a minute) bless something?
Irene

Dear Irene,

Christ is risen!

Can you please elaborate on this "less than a minute" blessing?

To be fair,
I asked my priest to bless my chotki and he said that wasn't done. Is that true?

He said that it was not done.

I remain curious about the blessing you describe and would appreciate if you elaborate on it.

TonyS
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Offline rosemarie

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2005, 11:36:07 AM »
I met an Eastern Catholic lady via the internet who makes gorgeous stone bead chotkis.  Her prices are reasonable, and she guarantees her work.  I've become a bit of a collector.  ;D

Offline rosemarie

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2005, 11:37:09 AM »
Oops.  If you want to check out her sight it's www.chotkis.com   ;D

Offline irene

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2005, 12:34:10 PM »
TonyS,

I am RC, and whenever i had a metal or rosary to be blessed, even if it was after Mass, I would go up to the priest and ask for his blessing.   It could be very quick, like the sign of the cross, and a short prayer, or a bit longer.   But, they always seemed happy to do so.

So, maybe I'm wrong to assume a blessing for a prayer rope, etc...in the Orthodox Church can be done that way, too.

Sometimes I speak, and should really do the research first!

Also, could the moderator delete my post about being upset with Jennifer's priest?   It reads much harsher than it was meant to read, and I don't feel good about it.   He is a priest afterall, and I don't want to be disrespectful.


Thx
Irene 

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2005, 12:46:53 PM »
I recently got a chotki from my favorite iconographer, Mother Anastasia in Canada and I have to say it is the best chotki I have ever had. The rope is swooth, not rough and the spacing between knopts is perfect for counting prayers. If anyone is interested in ordering one from her, her web site is http://www.monasterypress.com/maicons/prayerropes.html
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Offline Fr. David

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2005, 10:27:26 PM »
Also, could the moderator delete my post about being upset with Jennifer's priest?   It reads much harsher than it was meant to read, and I don't feel good about it.   He is a priest afterall, and I don't want to be disrespectful.

Irene,

I don't want to come across as though I'm deliberately trying to embarrass you, but as a rule we let posts stand once they go up, unless they are just over the top (i.e., profanity, racial slurs, etc.).  Your comment here serves as a nice clarification.

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Offline irene

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2005, 05:45:31 AM »
Pedro,

okay, no problem.    (except did you need to use red?)  :-[

Offline Donna Rose

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2005, 08:37:07 AM »
Quote
(except did you need to use red?) 

irene,

i think posting in red is the way a moderator or administrator indicates he or she is speaking under the role of moderator or admin - i assure you it is nothing to be alarmed at, especially considering the benignity of the matter Pedro was addressing :)
hmmmm...

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2005, 12:50:23 PM »
Pedro,

okay, no problem.    (except did you need to use red?)  :-[

Sorry!  Donna Rose got that right -- that's just to indicate that I had my "mod hat" on.  No prob!
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Offline choirfiend

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2005, 01:30:31 PM »
Irene,

FYI-As a registered poster, you should be able to delete any of your own posts. Look in the top right corner of all your posts--you should see Quote Modify Delete. Just choose modify or delete if you want to alter your post.
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Offline irene

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2005, 09:30:17 PM »
choirfiend,

thanks for the info.   Think i'll keep it there though, it will be a good reminder to be more charitable.  I got caught up in the emotion of the whole thing, and rereading it makes me shrink a bit, which is good!

anyway, it's a happy ending, Jennifer is being Chrismated!

irene

and Pedro no prob. with the red.  i thought it meant BIG trouble.   :dunno:

Offline TonyS

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2005, 01:29:30 AM »
TonyS,

I am RC, and whenever i had a metal or rosary to be blessed, even if it was after Mass, I would go up to the priest and ask for his blessing. It could be very quick, like the sign of the cross, and a short prayer, or a bit longer. But, they always seemed happy to do so.

So, maybe I'm wrong to assume a blessing for a prayer rope, etc...in the Orthodox Church can be done that way, too.

Sometimes I speak, and should really do the research first!

Dear Irene,

I am familiar with the simple blessing with the hand that RC priests do over things. I have not seen that among Orthodox nor read about it. Perhaps it is done somewhere though. I thought that was what you were talking about but better to let you explain yourself than someone else (like me).

The service books have blessings for many things but I have not seen one for a prayer rope, although there is a prayer for blessing "any thing." These blessings usually involve one or more petition, the usual beginning and a Psalm or more and the sprinkling of Holy Water. Also I have seen and heard of things being left on the altar as a form of blessing. Recently a friend asked a GOA (imported) priest-monk to bless a prayer rope and he said it needed to be touched to relics and dragged across the Gospel on the altar. That was new to me.

TonyS
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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2005, 01:36:39 PM »
Is there ANYWHERE one can get a prayer rope for under $20 total?! I've only seen one priced for under that -- at oramaworld.com for $13.50 -- but then shipping is NINE DOLLARS! Nnngh! >:( The St. Xenia Sisterhood USED to sell them for $15, but they've stopped taking orders due to their having to fill backorders right now.

Any other leads?

Your Resident (perhaps spoiled?) Cheapskate,

Pedro

Querido Pedro,

You've probably already found your source for an inexpensive 100-knot, but I would second oramaworld.com, as I have one of theirs and love it.  Also, Holy Transfiguration Monastery has one that, IIRC, is fourteen dollars, which, with the shipping, was nineteen dollars.  The knots on theirs are smaller and more tight, however. 
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Offline beewolf

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2005, 06:06:57 AM »
I use a set of Greek komboloi for prayer beads.
Gospodi pomiluy

Offline Timos

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2005, 11:06:22 PM »
Mor Ephrem, you mentioned holy Transfiguration Monastery. Did you mean the one which is associated with the Old Calenderists in MA or the canonical GOCA? Because the one in Massachusettes (sry I'm Canadian-my spelling of US states needs refining!) is a very suspicious monastery. It was started by a self-proclamied elder who was later involved in many scandals with young boys and "borrowing relics" from other monasteries.

 http://www.pokrov.org/controversial/htmon.html

I don't know how credible this information is but it also appeared in the orthodox news online:

http://www.orthodoxnews.netfirms.com/

I'm not trying ot tanrish their name or anything but if something disugsting of this magnitude occured then I beleive one wois truly Orthodox should not support an institution which mocks and betrays Orthodoxy. Yes, their products are lovely but many of these same products can be found in other orthodox places.

P.S. I have nothing to say about HOCNa (of which the monastery is part of). I am solely commenting on this particular monastery. On their webpage, they have a warning about not letting boys under 14 sleep over night. Go figure.

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Offline Matthaios

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2006, 01:49:03 PM »
Hi, in reply to the Prayer ropes under 30 question:

You can find prayer ropes for under $7
with $4 shipping at Religiousmall.com

http://www.religiousmall.com/prs_praying_ropes.html

Offline suzannes

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Re: shawls,prayer ropes,crosses
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2006, 12:26:53 PM »
Has anyone ever ordered from Mt. Sinai Church Products?  http://www.msocp.com  They have some nice prayer ropes.  Now that summer is coming, a lot of Greek churches have festivals, and often have prayer ropes for sale.  I have to say though, I've found them to be a lot less expensive online.  

A funny thing I heard about blessing icons; a deacon told me that Greeks do not bless icons, because like Donna Rose said, they're blessed by use and veneration.  However, he told me that Russians don't want to take any chances, and that something bad might have happened to the icon, so they bless theirs.

I see millions of wrist prayer ropes online, and yet at the moment, I can't think of where!  Just in case it wasn't already mentioned www.orthodoxgifts.com