Author Topic: Non-orthodox ponomary  (Read 2666 times)

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Offline Krysostomos

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Non-orthodox ponomary
« on: March 23, 2006, 08:03:12 AM »
Once I stayed nearly a year in Finnish-orthodox monastery of New Valaam as a voluntery worker.
My main job was serving as a ponomary/ altar servant.  For me as a roman catholic it was a good school (with the monastic library) for deeper understanding of the eastern orthodoxy.
But is it very common, that a non-orthodox is doing this ponomary job in orthodox service?
"You may say I am a dreamer. But I am not the only one." John Lennon

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2006, 12:11:46 PM »
I've never heard of such a thing.  
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2006, 12:25:34 PM »
That is interesting; I too have not heard of a situation even close to this before.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2006, 12:29:54 PM »
I have personally witnessed a similar thing: a Roman Catholic reading the Psalter, during the service, at a Orthodox Monastery.
It seemed normal to me, however.

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2006, 12:38:27 PM »
One of the problems I see with a RC being an altar server is that they would be behind the Iconostasis, which is reserved for Orthodox men only (ideally, only deacons and priests, and bishops would be back there, but most parishes need altar servers.  Or at least this is how I understand it).  
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2006, 05:49:42 PM »
Quote
One of the problems I see with a RC being an altar server is that they would be behind the Iconostasis, which is reserved for Orthodox men only (ideally, only deacons and priests, and bishops would be back there, but most parishes need altar servers.  Or at least this is how I understand it).  

And you know this how?  From the Orthodox parish you attend?


Offline Elisha

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2006, 07:01:48 PM »
How do you know these non-Orthodox aren't catechumens?  Brother Baruch of late memory was chanting plenty at St. John of Shanghai's in Pt. Reyes while a catechumen...probably because he was able bodied and available and others were not.

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2006, 08:56:13 PM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8537.msg112872#msg112872 date=1143150582]
And you know this how?  From the Orthodox parish you attend?


[/quote]

I'm not an idiot.  You don't have to attend a parish to know this.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2006, 08:58:40 PM »
Quote
I'm not an idiot.  You don't have to attend a parish to know this.

But, the point is you do not attend an Orthodox parish.  You have no idea of the standard praxis at ANY parish of ANY jurisdiction - all you know of Orthodoxy is from the internet.  

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2006, 09:01:04 PM »
Maybe I should correct my earlier statement.  

Traditionally, I have never heard of such a thing.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2006, 09:12:00 PM »
Traditionally?  The internet is the new source of tradition!?

Offline Elisha

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2006, 09:18:57 PM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8537.msg112905#msg112905 date=1143162720]
Traditionally?  The internet is the new source of tradition!?
[/quote]
You've been awefully snarky lately - ever consider giving him the benefit of the doubt that he has actually TALKED to other Orthodox?

Offline Anastasios

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2006, 09:22:34 PM »
You've been awefully snarky lately - ever consider giving him the benefit of the doubt that he has actually TALKED to other Orthodox?

Nektarios and Andrew go "way back."

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Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2006, 09:50:28 PM »
Lol Anastasios, we have only known eachother for a little over a year (I guess "way back" is relative ;)).  

Anyways, now I remember why I have been trying not to post as much on forums.  Everything seems to turn into a argument of some sort, and everyone just gets angry with each other, etc.  Oh well.  Forgive me if I have said anything to offend anyone.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2006, 09:57:30 PM »
This still leaves the main question answered - how can one comment on a practice that is largely based on need and at the discretion of the priest or bishop in question (and last I checked this is not really a central dogmatic issue) when you don't have any experience being part of a parish and witnessing such pastoral issues?  Yes, of course you can read articles on orthodoxinfo.com or ROAC's website or whatever schismatic and/or vagante group you've set your fancy on this week - but is that Orthodoxy?

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2006, 10:02:14 PM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8537.msg112923#msg112923 date=1143165450]
This still leaves the main question answered - how can one comment on a practice that is largely based on need and at the discretion of the priest or bishop in question (and last I checked this is not really a central dogmatic issue) when you don't have any experience being part of a parish and witnessing such pastoral issues?  Yes, of course you can read articles on orthodoxinfo.com or ROAC's website or whatever schismatic and/or vagante group you've set your fancy on this week - but is that Orthodoxy?
[/quote]

Nektarios, I've already said I'm not going to argue with anyone on this.  The rest of your comments in this post about Traditionalism I won't say anything on.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 10:02:33 PM by drewmeister2 »
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Offline Krysostomos

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2006, 02:40:04 AM »
I have heard, that economy made/ makes this possible. In New Valaam, they had even a Lutheran as a ponomari. Well, after all Finland is 90% Lutheran - one % Orthodox...We rc make 10 thousand.
(Ofcourse I had the permanent blessing of father igumeni.)
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2006, 02:51:25 AM »
This board is usually so civil... i get a sinus infection and don't check in for a day or so and look what happens while I am gone. If everyones tone doesn't keep at a civil level I will take action on the offender. Please don't get on my bad side during lent.
Joseph

Offline Zoe

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Re: Non-orthodox ponomary
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2006, 03:00:23 AM »
deleted
« Last Edit: March 24, 2006, 03:20:40 AM by Zoe »
NI!!!!!!