Author Topic: Catholic priesthood  (Read 6904 times)

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Offline Armando

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Catholic priesthood
« on: March 13, 2006, 08:09:01 AM »
I wish to become a priest and probably a catholic priest since
I have heard funny things about WRO. Could you please tell me
what is the Orthodox position on Catholic priesthood?
It is valid, right?! Since they have aposotlic succession.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2006, 09:04:12 AM »
I wish to become a priest and probably a catholic priest since
I have heard funny things about WRO. Could you please tell me
what is the Orthodox position on Catholic priesthood?
It is valid, right?! Since they have aposotlic succession.

No. And I think you are baiting because we have been over this a million times on this board. By now you have to know what Orthodox think and I think you are just posting this stuff to get us riled up.

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Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Online Asteriktos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2006, 10:50:57 AM »
Quote
I wish to become a priest and probably a catholic priest

Lol, I like that. You want to be a priest... you're a little less sure about who you'll be a priest with, but the priest part you're sure of. :)
"We are all human beans. What is left now is for each of us to grow to our full potential in Christ." - Abba Hezekiah

Offline FrChris

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2006, 11:08:06 AM »
Lol, I like that. You want to be a priest... you're a little less sure about who you'll be a priest with, but the priest part you're sure of. :)

Actually this is perfectly consistant with Armando:

He is not concerned about Truth; he is only concerned with what he wants
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2006, 12:43:32 PM »
Oh believe me... Becoming a priest (catholic,orthodox or protestant) is NOTHING I want.
I'd rather have a family than become a priest. If I ever enter priesthood, you can be
sure that it's me submitting to God's will.

As for the baiting part, it's not my fault orthodoxy fails to have certain doctrine but is just based
on hear and tell. I've heard more than 5 orthodox priests say that Catholic priests are just
like the Orthodox. Valid through apostolic succession.
Ten years have passed, the girl I loved
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Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2006, 12:45:16 PM »
But when your life's ******** and every priest you know tells you it's because
God won't leave me alone because I once did something as stupid as promising to become
a bloody priest in return for family peace. So, yeah. I'm baiting and I am selfish.

Lucky be atheists.

Inapppropriate portions deleted.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2006, 12:55:27 PM by SouthSerb99 »
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Offline Michael

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2006, 01:29:10 PM »
Armando,

Am I right in assuming from your opening post that you find your spirituality fed and nourished by the Western Rite? If so, what exactly is it about the Western Rite of Orthodoxy that you find off-putting to the point that you feel driven to Rome?

Many thanks.

Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2006, 01:53:20 PM »
You want to know...?! I had always known hate and rejection. From both Orthodox laity and clergy.
In the local Catholic parish I've felt so close to them all. Yes, it sounds selfish. But when
I've got nothing else in my life, no friends, no family to talk to, no girlfriend, no nothing,
I just don't care if it sounds selfish.

I've been alone for as long as I can remember. I thought God was there for me
and now I am not even sure about that.
And you Christians, Catholics and Orthodox, await one misunderstanding to
stick nametags and eliminate a fellow's personallity. Right now, even if
I'll later regret for saying this, I'm sick of everything. Including God, the Church
and those who belong to it. I'm sick of my own parents, of all those who pretended
to be my friends. For all those who made me hate my own country and my own religion
and to seek shelter to the West.
Ten years have passed, the girl I loved
is now a woman, but I am still a child...
-Sad-ending fairytale, Miltos Paschalidis

Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2006, 01:56:58 PM »
3 years ago I had said that no matter what happens, I will never accept the Pope. I'd rather die than submit to the Catholic Church and leave Orthodoxy. I've always been like that. I considered myself
lucky to be born in an Orthodox country. So, I had enough of this... Saying I am selfish or that I lost my way. I was shown the door from many orthodox christians long ago.
Ten years have passed, the girl I loved
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-Sad-ending fairytale, Miltos Paschalidis

Offline Anastasios

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2006, 02:04:18 PM »
Armando,

It would be a big mistake for you to make ecclesiastical decisions based on who treats you like a human. I have found love and hate in both Churches. There is no perfect body.  I'm sorry that you have such a hard time with people.  Maybe you have a learning disability or a mild form of autism like Asberger's Syndrome that you are not even aware of and which inhibits your communication with others, causing you confusion as to why you are not accepted "by the masses."  But more likely, you're just a normal teenager. I wasn't accepted by "the masses" until I went out and started hanging out with Hispanic gang bangers (no, I myself did not join the gang or committ crimes).  They showed me love and attention, strangely enough, and everyone else was respectful to me because of who my friends were. So I mean, life is rough and it just stays that way. How you deal with it is what makes or breaks you. Don't give up; get assertive.  If you are depressed, get medication from a doctor.  Get tested for those above mentioned conditions. If you don't have any of that, you're just going through normal teenage stuff. But for God's sake don't make any ecclesiastical decisions. The best thing would be I guess to just read spiritually uplifting material from both sides and keep praying. God will guide you if you submit. Right now it seems like you are trying to run the show.

And btw, this is a forum where we do not know you personally. As such it's not the best place to discuss your issues because we aren't with you enough to know you well.  Many people have relied on the advice of strangers without analyzing its relative merit and in the end become disillusioned.

Anastasios
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Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline Michael

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2006, 02:19:09 PM »
Armando, thank you so much for your candid response.

Know that you are in my prayers.  I can indeed see the attraction to a place where you are welcomed with open arms, where you feel supported and affirmed for who you are, especially in circumstances where you feel that you perhaps don't get this elsewhere.

I'm also sorry about some of the earlier responses that you received here.  I don;t know enough about your posting history to know whether or not they were justified, but in either case, in light of your current feelings, they couldn;t have been easy to read.

What I would seriously consider, though, (and do this in the due course of time, when you're ready and not before), is what exactly it is that you believe the Church to be and what you expect from it.  Receiving welcome and overt love is something that you should be able to find in any Orthodox church.  Alas, we are imperfect people who come to God's altar, damaged and broken, and await his mercy.  One can find support and welcome, and feelings of belonging in many other places and groups. However, while it is true that this should be the case of the Church as well, this is not the Church's primary purpose, but rather the Church's primary purpose is the salvation of our souls, by providing the means of God's grace to further our deification.  Everything else, including being welcoming and supportive, while very important, is secondary, and, without meaning to be disrespectful to your current feelings and situation, which I can see is causing you a lot of distress which I hope passes soon, I would, out of concern, strongly suggest that to uproot and go elsewhere for this secondary purpose would be detrimental to your spiritual well-being in the long run.

It's such a shame that you have come across negativitity towards you in Orthodox circles, but I assure you that there are indeed communities where you will find the same sort of loving welcome that you have found in Rome.  I shan't presume to tell you what to do, because that isn't my place, but I would implore you to bear this in mind and I shall pray that God will guide youi as he sees fit, and that you will find the stability and support that you need and deserve.

With love in Christ,
Michael

Offline TomS

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2006, 03:15:01 PM »
I've been alone for as long as I can remember. I thought God was there for me
and now I am not even sure about that.

.. Right now, even if I'll later regret for saying this, I'm sick of everything. Including God, the Church and those who belong to it. I'm sick of my own parents, of all those who pretended
to be my friends.


And yet you think He is calling you to be a Priest with THAT attitude?

Maybe you are being called by another entity? One that is very familiar with all things Roman Catholic. That makes sense.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2006, 03:40:32 PM by TomS »

Offline Michael

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2006, 04:12:35 PM »
And yet you think He is calling you to be a Priest with THAT attitude?

Maybe you are being called by another entity? One that is very familiar with all things Roman Catholic. That makes sense.

Most of us go through a dark night of the soul at some point, TomS, and we all express that differently from each other.  I simply read Armando's post as an honest expression of his feelings at that particular moment in time.  I pray that they will pass, and that he will find the stability that he seeks, within Orthodoxy.

I agree with what I think your underlying sentiment was, though, TomS.  Only after we find a firm grounding in the Faith can we begin to explore a possible vocation to the priesthood, but that doesn't mean that God's still, small voice is not gently calling, even before that firm faith has been established.

All things in God's time, Armando.  Pray for guidance and patience.

You're still in my prayers.

Offline montalban

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2006, 12:25:55 AM »
One thing I've always found odd about Catholic priests is how they argue for celebate priests, but within their own church allowed clergy who are married (in the Maronite, and other eastern rite churches). They when they argue that a priest can best serve his congregation by not being married, they are suggesting that some of their own priests are giving second-class service to their parishes by being married.

 :o
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2006, 02:28:26 AM »
One thing I've always found odd about Catholic priests is how they argue for celebate priests, but within their own church allowed clergy who are married (in the Maronite, and other eastern rite churches). They when they argue that a priest can best serve his congregation by not being married, they are suggesting that some of their own priests are giving second-class service to their parishes by being married.

It is sheer stubborness on the part of Rome for insisting on this.  They're just afraid of losing their "men's club" atmosphere, the difficulties of having to be sensitive to a priest's family life when they're administering a diocese, and of having the power structure of the Latin Church generally shaken up.  Rome knows full well that this is a discipline, and not a question of doctrine.  With regard to eastern rite clergy, even today they are seen as "second class" priests by some in the Latin communion.  
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Offline montalban

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2006, 04:27:27 AM »
It is sheer stubborness on the part of Rome for insisting on this.  They're just afraid of losing their "men's club" atmosphere, the difficulties of having to be sensitive to a priest's family life when they're administering a diocese, and of having the power structure of the Latin Church generally shaken up.  Rome knows full well that this is a discipline, and not a question of doctrine.  With regard to eastern rite clergy, even today they are seen as "second class" priests by some in the Latin communion. ÂÂ

They must be viewed as second-class, because I've seen so often Roman Catholics arguing for celibate priests based on the notion of committment to the flock. They can't have it both ways
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2006, 12:31:46 PM »
Quote
They must be viewed as second-class, because I've seen so often Roman Catholics arguing for celibate priests based on the notion of committment to the flock. They can't have it both ways

One of the RC priests at a parish in my area is married and is definetly not second-class.  He is very respectable and well liked.  Considering a few priests in the area  have been arrested in recent years, a couple more resigned over an argument with the bishop over being gay-activists - normal, solid and good priests command a lot of respect here.  

Offline montalban

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2006, 09:57:26 PM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8430.msg111590#msg111590 date=1142353906]
One of the RC priests at a parish in my area is married and is definetly not second-class.  He is very respectable and well liked.  Considering a few priests in the area  have been arrested in recent years, a couple more resigned over an argument with the bishop over being gay-activists - normal, solid and good priests command a lot of respect here. ÂÂ
[/quote]

I mean to say that by their own logic they must be viewed as second-class priests
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2006, 10:15:14 PM »
Quote
I mean to say that by their own logic they must be viewed as second-class priests

Maybe by higher up Vatican politicians, but not IME by most lay people.

Offline montalban

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2006, 03:02:36 AM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8430.msg111626#msg111626 date=1142388914]
Maybe by higher up Vatican politicians, but not IME by most lay people.
[/quote]
That's the logic of their position.

If they claim that one needs to be properly ministered to by a celibate priest, then in instances in the Catholic Church when they have non-celibate priests, those ministerings must be less than best practice.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2006, 03:18:29 AM »
But most people in thier daily dealings aren't androids.  When they have a priest that they respect and love and he happens to be married it doesn't matter.  Also many Catholics don't exactly agree with the discipline of mandatory celibacy.  

Offline montalban

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2006, 03:48:39 AM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8430.msg111658#msg111658 date=1142407109]
But most people in thier daily dealings aren't androids.  When they have a priest that they respect and love and he happens to be married it doesn't matter.  Also many Catholics don't exactly agree with the discipline of mandatory celibacy. ÂÂ
[/quote]
I agree with you with what you say here.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2006, 08:53:32 AM »
Well, we'll see if there is any trickle-up effect of the general feeling that it seems we've all had with Catholics - that many do not like mandatory celibacy.  If the bishops are open to hearing the popular voice (which they won't be) then it might change... I'm not putting it past them, considering how much has already changed with the Catholics in the last 2 centuries...
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Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2006, 07:46:31 PM »
Quote
Well, we'll see if there is any trickle-up effect of the general feeling that it seems we've all had with Catholics - that many do not like mandatory celibacy.  If the bishops are open to hearing the popular voice (which they won't be) then it might change... I'm not putting it past them, considering how much has already changed with the Catholics in the last 2 centuries...

Words of wisdom from a guy with the bloody byzantine flag as an avatar.
Let's overlook that Byzantium was Eastern ROMAN, so in the schism we
had the child revolting against mother town, this ARMANDO'S IMMATURE USE OF THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN REMOVEDflag
is in disuse for centuries (thank Turkey for that).

 Learn to use polite language. You are immature and rude.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 09:24:52 PM by Anastasios »
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Offline rosborn

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2006, 08:25:28 PM »
Words of wisdom from a guy with the bloody byzantine flag as an avatar.
Let's overlook that Byzantium was Eastern ROMAN, so in the schism we
had the child revolting against mother town, this IMMATURE PROFANITY REMOVED flag
is in disuse for centuries (thank Turkey for that).

Ya know . . . . .

You really are an embarrassment to the rest of us Westerners on this board.

Stop acting like a child and start acting like a Christian young man who is posting on an EASTERN ORTHODOX message board.  You are a guest here.  Start acting like one.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 09:25:24 PM by Anastasios »

Offline GiC

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2006, 08:42:36 PM »
Words of wisdom from a guy with the bloody byzantine flag as an avatar.
Let's overlook that Byzantium was Eastern ROMAN, so in the schism we
had the child revolting against mother town, this PROFANITY REMOVED flag
is in disuse for centuries (thank Turkey for that).

Constantinople was the Throne of the Emperor and the Seat of the Senate...Old Rome, lacking these glories, was nothing but a provincial capital. The Schism was a revolt of the Servant (Old Rome) against the Master (New Rome, graced by the presence of the Emperor and Senate).
« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 09:26:05 PM by Anastasios »

Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2006, 05:21:07 PM »
First of all, from now on I represent myself not Catholic nor Orthodox.
They can both go... go....err...hold a Council [hope that's polite enough!] for all I care.

Man's salvation comes from the man alone. No God, no crucifixion and definetely no
ressurection of some christ can save humankind.
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Offline Ntinos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2006, 05:55:25 PM »
Quote
No God, no crucifixion and definetely no
ressurection of some christ can save humankind.

Αδελφέ Armando, ηρέμησε πρώτα από όλα.
Όλοι χανόμαστε στον δρόμο, γι' αυτό και είναι 'στενή η πύλη', για να μην χωρέσουμε όλοι, αλλά μόνο όσοι σπρώξουμε για να μπούμε. Πόσο μάλλον όταν είσαι 16, έχεις χαθεί μέσα στην εφηβεία και δέχεσαι από παντού πιέσεις, το τελευταίο που θα σκεφτείς είναι το πως να τα φέρεις όλα βόλτα και να αρέσεις και στον Θεό ταυτόχρονα.
Δεν είναι καλό να παίρνεις σημαντικές αποφάσεις που καθορίζουν την ζωή σου όταν είσαι εκνευρισμένος ή απογοητευμένος. Καλύτερα είναι να ηρεμήσεις, να ξεχάσεις όλο το θέμα για μερικές ημέρες, και μετά μπορείς να ξαναμπείς στην διαδικασία να εξετάσεις το τι είναι καλύτερο για εσένα, αν επιλέξεις να γίνεις θειστής, άθεος, χριστιανός ή αγνωστικιστής (ή ότι άλλο μπορεί να σκέφτεσαι). Προσωπικά πέρασα την διαδικασία πριν μερικά χρόνια (λίγο μεγαλύτερος από εσένα είμαι), και αποφάσισα ότι τίποτε για μένα δεν έχει σημασία όσον αφορά το θέμα της θρησκείας αν όντως ισχύει αυτό που γράφεις:

Quote
Man's salvation comes from the man alone. No God, no crucifixion and definetely no
ressurection of some christ can save humankind.

ÃŽÂ οιο το νόημα της ζωής αν όντως ισχύει αυτό; Το να γεννηθούμε για να επιστρέψουμε στο χώμα, μόνο και μόνο για να είναι σαν να μην υπήρχαμε ποτέ την επόμενη φορά που η γη δεν θα μπορεί να μας φιλοξενήσει άλλο πάνω της; ÃŽÂ ραγματικά αυτό είναι που θα δώσει νόημα στην ζωή σου; Χίλιες φορές καλύτερα να πιστέψω οποιαδήποτε ανορθολογιστική δοξασία παρά το ότι μετά τον θάνατό μου το τίποτα. Ελπίζω το ίδιο να ισχύσει και για εσένα.  :)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 06:10:09 PM by Ntinos »

Offline Timos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2006, 06:10:22 PM »
I don't think its anger. I think a forum can have damaging effects on people's faith- even an Orthodox forum since many times, what we know as truth is openly questioned and many points of view are put forth, thus confusing people. I sometimes will get confused and have to leave any of the forums I visit or not  ask too many pople their opinions esp. when it comes to faith and relationships.

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2006, 06:17:17 PM »
Brother Timos, what is more likely is that Armando is under a lot of pressure.  His age couldn't be better for this, he might also be having failures on his relationships, his friends (?), school etc etc. The last thing he could accept is a God not accepting his demands for help.
I felt like this often in the past (and so do I now), when God would not fulfil what I would ask for. I know it inside me that He is not giving me what I want in order to get me to become better at prayer, and not to adopt a "give it to me all NOW!" attitude, but it's often not the same with most people.
The whole issue is not about the forum, since it's a public place, everyone can post whatever he feels is appropriate (ideas sharing).
One must be able to filter the material he comes in touch with.
Armando is 16 right now (what it says in his profile), and later he will most likely go to University where atheist ideas and the such are way more likely to affect him, even if he doesn't want them to (if you hear the same thing many times it actually anchors in your mind). One must be critical of every single idea that crosses his mind, whether it is his thought or someone else's. And definitely, things such as external affections must be cleared off the mind before taking such decisions.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 06:20:54 PM by Ntinos »

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2006, 06:28:37 PM »
Quote
You want to know...?! I had always known hate and rejection. From both Orthodox laity and clergy.
In the local Catholic parish I've felt so close to them all. Yes, it sounds selfish. But when
I've got nothing else in my life, no friends, no family to talk to, no girlfriend, no nothing,
I just don't care if it sounds selfish.

I've been alone for as long as I can remember. I thought God was there for me
and now I am not even sure about that.
And you Christians, Catholics and Orthodox, await one misunderstanding to
stick nametags and eliminate a fellow's personallity. Right now, even if
I'll later regret for saying this, I'm sick of everything. Including God, the Church
and those who belong to it. I'm sick of my own parents, of all those who pretended
to be my friends. For all those who made me hate my own country and my own religion
and to seek shelter to the West.
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3 years ago I had said that no matter what happens, I will never accept the Pope. I'd rather die than submit to the Catholic Church and leave Orthodoxy. I've always been like that. I considered myself
lucky to be born in an Orthodox country. So, I had enough of this... Saying I am selfish or that I lost my way. I was shown the door from many orthodox christians long ago.

So, here is the problem.
Armando got dissapointed from the situation of the Church in Greece, of his parents, of his fellow christian brothers, his friends, even of his own country. The first because the Church of Greece is suffering from too much Christodoulism lately, the second because it's high teens and his parents would be the first to earn the fruit of sweet sixteen, and the third because we Greeks like to be assholes every now and then, pretending to be friends, then doing whatever strikes us best in order to climb to the top (or what would get us closer to the top).

I honestly think taking life (and Greeks) just a little bit less seriously would be the key. It's a wild world after all  ;D

Let's all make a prayer for Armando tonight, so that things get cleared.  :) :)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 06:30:33 PM by Ntinos »

Offline MicahJohn

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2006, 06:59:31 PM »
What's Christodoulism?

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2006, 07:21:34 PM »
The tendency of our Archbishop (Christodoulos of Athens) to care less about spiritual issues of the Church and more about secular things (regardless of whether they concern the Church or not).  ;)

Offline Timos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2006, 12:04:00 AM »
I greatly dislike Christodoulos and I know passing judgement is wrong but I have a feeling deep inside me that Christodoulos is not "doulos tou Christou". For example, he just gave up on the youth of Greece just because translating texts actually take time and effort. His fake smile does not fool me. I am proud that the PM of Greece did not kiss the Archbishop's hand when he met with him publically. His eyes are made out of dollar signs.

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2006, 06:08:54 AM »
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that even if our Archbishop were to be replaced by someone else in the Holy Synod, the new Archbishop would not be any better.
Except if it were for Metropolitan Nikolaos whom I have in great esteem.  :) :)

Well, he's our Archbishop, but he's been involved in quite a few embarassing incidents concerning the Patriarchate of Jerusalem and it was speculated he was preparing a political party 'submitting to the Church's wills', which is way beyond his ecclesiastical issues.
At the same time, the number of young priests is constantly decreasing and Theology is considered a 'second class' science for university studies by almost everybody.

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2006, 08:16:34 PM »
Quote
His eyes are made out of dollar signs.

The dollar is nothing anymore, its the all about the Euro.  Interestingly enough every single one of my friends living in Greece has the same feeling about Archbishop Christodoulos.  

Offline Yiannis

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2006, 09:09:45 PM »
What's Christodoulism?
NEW ORTHODOX DICTIONARY, entry Christodoulism.
Christodoulism is a current trend in the Orthodox Church of Greece based on a unique combination of several features: 1. Cult of public relations, 2. Hyper-activism, 3. Nationalism, 4. Lack of true Orthodox Christian spiritual founding, 5. Strong declarations that are never followed by acts, 6. Promotion of modernist clergymen, 7. Promotion of some moderate traditionalist clergymen too, in condition that they are obedient (so that all the people are happy), 8. Ecumenism (but not too much, so that both the ecumenists and the traditionalists are happy!), 9. Populism, 10. Expensive holidays for high-rank clergymen (therefore the term "Chrysodoulism" used by some opponents of the above-mentioned trend).
The theologians do not agree if Christodoulism is a heresy or a new form of Orthodox spirituality or just a disease. These who consider it to be a heresy, allege that its followers should be accepted by the Church through chrismation. These who regard it as a disease, recommend a special treatment by Orthodox spiritual fathers (Orthodox psychotherapy).
:D :D :D
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 09:19:39 PM by Yiannis »
Christ, the true Light!

Offline Yiannis

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2006, 09:12:17 PM »
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8430.msg112189#msg112189 date=1142727394]
The dollar is nothing anymore, its the all about the Euro.  Interestingly enough every single one of my friends living in Greece has the same feeling about Archbishop Christodoulos. ÂÂ
[/quote]

Hmmm! I suppose your friends are familiar with the term "Chrysodoulism".
Christ, the true Light!

Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2006, 10:55:47 PM »
I am also a little dissapointed in God. I do realise of course that
He would rather help millions of starving children in Africa, I for some
reason, expect His help to take away all of my problems.

I am also dissapointed of both churches, East and West.
I believe I had sometimes lived the unity when after recieving
Orthodox communion I went to a Catholic church to recieve
Catholic communion. It felt great and no part of myself felt
guilty. And after that great feeling I had everyone I know call
me traitor when all I ever dreamt of was unity among the
two sister Churches.
Ten years have passed, the girl I loved
is now a woman, but I am still a child...
-Sad-ending fairytale, Miltos Paschalidis

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2006, 07:42:24 AM »
Armando, ο καιρός να επιστρέψει η Μια Αγία Καθολική Εκκλησία είναι πάρα πολύ κοντά. Υπομονή, και η Εκκλησία θα επανενωθεί με τον πιο αναπάντεχο τρόπο.

Σου προτείνω, αν δεν το έχεις ήδη διαβάσει, να προμηθευτείς το βιβλίο "Γέροντας ÃŽÂ αίσιος ο Αγιορείτης, Μαρτυρίες ÃŽÂ ροσκυνητών", εκδόσεις "Αγιοτόκος Καππαδοκία" να σε στηρίζει κάθε φορά που περνάς δυσκολίες.  :) :)

Offline Armando

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2006, 03:06:44 PM »
Μακάρι. Αλλά να είναι ένωση αγάπης και όχι ψεύτικη Ένωση.
Να σεβαστεί η Δύση τον Δημοκρατικό τρόπο σκέψης της Ανατολής
αλλά και η Ανατολή να σεβαστεί τον ρόλο του Επισκόπου Ρώμης.
Καλή η δημοκρατία αλλά ιστορικά το μελέτησα και η ύπαρξη
πρωτείου είναι ξεκάθαρη. Όχι ίσου με το σημερινό, μιας και
μετά το Σχίσμα ο Πάπας έμεινε ο μόνος Πατριάρχης της Εκκλησίας,
αλλά ούτε απλό πρωτείο τιμής.
Ten years have passed, the girl I loved
is now a woman, but I am still a child...
-Sad-ending fairytale, Miltos Paschalidis

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2006, 03:49:27 PM »
Τώρα θα επιχειρήσουν μια ψεύτικη ένωση που θα στενοχωρήσει και τις δυο Εκκλησίες.
Μετά θα έλθει η πραγματική ένωση, και η Εκκλησία θα επανέλθει στη μορÏâ€ ή που είχε στους αποστολικούς καιρούς.  :) :)

Offline TomS

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2006, 06:42:07 PM »
I am also a little dissapointed in God. I do realise of course that
He would rather help millions of starving children in Africa...

Wouldn't that be nice of him! But don't expect too much from Mr. Omnipresent.

Offline FrChris

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2006, 08:49:10 PM »
Folks---

I will insist that the posts made in this thread have only incidental use of Greek, παιδια μου.

Also, on a personal note-- I have seen a bit too much of the use of μαλακα on this site. This word has connotations that may be unpleasant and/or unseemly.


So, this post deliberately intermixed the two languages so that it can be seen by what I mean regarding 'incidental use'. A non-Greek speaker should not be at a total loss regarding the meaning of the post.
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline GiC

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Re: Catholic priesthood
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2006, 09:21:01 PM »
Folks---

I will insist that the posts made in this thread have only incidental use of Greek, παιδια μου.

So, this post deliberately intermixed the two languages so that it can be seen by what I mean regarding 'incidental use'. A non-Greek speaker should not be at a total loss regarding the meaning of the post.

So, seeing how we lack a Greek language forum, where are those who wish to discuss a matter in Greek supposed to post? Furthermore, where may I find the posted rule that prohibits the use of non-English languages on this forum?

Quote
Also, on a personal note-- I have seen a bit too much of the use of μαλακα on this site. This word has connotations that may be unpleasant and/or unseemly.

Yeah, μαλακα, if you're living in the 1920's...however, I seriously doubt this would be regarded as offensive by anyone who actually lives in Greece today (at least not in the context that it was used on this forum).