To GOA or not to GOA, that is the question

[Fr. George]

RE: ACROD - A lot of those Pennsylvania parishes are in the "rust belt" - dying steel and coal towns.  It's the same problem that the OCA is having in the same areas: the OCA has 100+ parishes in PA, but now most of them have fewer than 100 families each.

[Αριστοκλής]

I disagree with this. 90% of the ACROD parishes are located in areas from Ohio eastward. The heaviest concentrations are New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut. The Deaneries of Chicago and Florida are dwindling in membership almost if not worse than the churches in the other deaneries, but the seat of ACROD is located in Johnstown, PA. However, with Met. Nicholas in charge, who knows where this might go. I can certainly see people fleeing ACROD as many already have. The big problem with ACROD is that the birth rate and retention rate are growing at a much slower rate than the death rate, as ACROD is made up of alot of Elderly members. The children, however, are not really staying in the church as ACROD has developed a very liberal view of orthodoxy (in my opinion of course).

-Nick

Then we shall just have to disagree, my friend. I may be GOA but I'm an active member of my wife's ACROD parish and enjoy cordial and close relations with our Metropolian Nicholas, of whom I've never heard disparaging remarks except from those outside ACROD. And I've seen actual parish figures for the entire diocese and stand by my observation.

[admiralnick]

[quote author=Αριστοκλής link=topic=8406.msg125724#msg125724 date=1151329387]
Then we shall just have to disagree, my friend. I may be GOA but I'm an active member of my wife's ACROD parish and enjoy cordial and close relations with our Metropolian Nicholas, of whom I've never heard disparaging remarks except from those outside ACROD. And I've seen actual parish figures for the entire diocese and stand by my observation.
[/quote]


Disagree it is, Man law has been created. I was in ACROD for 21 years until I left recently. I'm sure that we have differing views and I hope that you and many others will continue to look favorably on His Eminence, I am sad to say that I am not one of those people. But, that is a private matter and nothing that needs to be discussed here. As for statistics, I shall take your word for it and I am sure that all will be reolved when the diocesan census comes out at the Sobor. Until then, disagreement agreed! 

-Nick

[Αριστοκλής]

Goody! You will notice that I did not state a net gain or even par for the new, south parishes' growth, but the difference in parish member change are starkly evident.

[Thomas]

I know this may sound dumb but was does ACROD stand for?

Thomas

[ozgeorge]

I know this may sound dumb but was does ACROD stand for?

Thomas

"American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese". It is under the juristiction of the Oecumenical Patriarchate. See http://www.acrod.org/

[Timos]

Wow, some of your guys on here know Fr. Stavros Chatzis? He's an amazing priest, very young and full of energy. I almost wish I was part of his parish, but alas his is 40 minutes away by car, although I might help with some youth activities over there- btw, he now has a beautiful baby girl named Anna. Plus I've got our own cool priest Fr. Peter Mentis, he's a Holy Crosser too.

As for being welcomed in church, in Canada its weird. In some parishes, where there are more northern greeks like Makedonians, Epirots, Evros, if you are greek but have lighter features/are nothern greek yourself, you're more welcome. In some parishes it's the opposite, if you're an Cretan/Dodecanese island person or from Imvros,Tenedos, Constantinople, you're treated better than northern people. That also partially depends on the priest, whoi gives the altar boy from his region the better roles etc. Peloponesians tend to be treated equally in most places. Thus, even when we play soccer in our church's gravel and cement lot behind the church, we divide the teams "island people" versus "northern people".

Then theres the "if you're greek and orthodox you're welcome because all Hellenic lands are equal."

Theres also the "if you're orthodox, you're welcome whether your chinese or a canadian blonde bt that tends to be more of the 30 year old people. Us teenagers are more hardcore than our parents sometimes. Heck, once we got a 50 year old chinese lady to dance tsifteteli ("belly dance") at our festival, at which of course the yiayaides (grannies) were staring and pointing, cheering and laughing.

[sdcheung]

Heck, once we got a 50 year old chinese lady to dance tsifteteli ("belly dance") at our festival, at which of course the yiayaides (grannies) were staring and pointing, cheering and laughing.

Your mission if you choose to accept it is to get a Young kineza to dance the tsifteteli. Now that would be something.

[Fr. George]

Wow, some of your guys on here know Fr. Stavros Chatzis? He's an amazing priest, very young and full of energy. I almost wish I was part of his parish, but alas his is 40 minutes away by car, although I might help with some youth activities over there- btw, he now has a beautiful baby girl named Anna.

Yes, I do know Fr. Stavros (of course I haven't seen him since his ordination) - and thanks for the update on his little bundle of joy.

[Αριστοκλής]

Timos,
Unless you have no automobile a 40 minutes drive doesn't seen THAT bad even for an periodic visit; we drive 50 minutes, one way, each week.

[Timos]

Wait, Cleveland you were @ Fr. Stavro's ordination? So was I. Where were you standing during liturgy and during the meal afterwards? In church I was standing at the front row with a friend from California- later the Archbishop pointed him out and mentioned in front of everybody that he's from California and that he was "Elino-Persis" at which point of course came whispering, gasps, and hisses. We were sitting at the seminarians table. I know another Holy Crosser -Josh, who was there too.

Aristokles, you're right, 40 minutes is not bad at all. It's just that gas (up here) is sooo expensive. It's like a buck a litre (or higher), I'm going to university this fall however I might have to go down there once a week if I'm gonna be teaching the dance group--but thats another story which doesn't even have an ending...

[Fr. George]

I wasn't AT the ordination, I was just saying that I haven't seen him since he was ordained.  Sorry dude.

[Timos]

lol, opps- misunderstood- my bad hehe

[americanorthodox]

So my family is in the process of converting, as is another couple we know, but we're not fully decided on jurisdiction.  There isn't an Orthodox parish that is precisely convenient to our house.  I'm leaning toward the GOA parish, as it is closest.  Downside is that part of the liturgy is still in Greek.  OTOH, the closest OCA is 30 minutes away in good weather, and the liturgy begins at 9 am, which would require having the troops up and moving fairly early.

At any rate, my friend is concerned about GOA, and how "liberal" it may or may not be - especially with regard to ecumenism.  My intention is decidedly not to start a jurisdiction bashing contest, but would be interested in the perspectives of folks from different jurisdictions as to the state of their own jurisdictions.  Thanks!

I don't see how it makes much difference, really. My personal experiences with Greek parishes have been distinctly negative (and yes, I realize that these are not generalizations), and I was chrismated in 1984 in an Antiochian parish. That was over twenty years ago, and almost 700 miles from here. I go to an OCA parish now. Just as American, just as welcoming, and 100% English.

[americanorthodox]

Timos and Elisha,

Well, at my home parish last night in the 12 Gospels service, Greek was only used at one occaison, and that was followed immediately by English...the person messed up at the chanter's stand and read it in Greek, and then corrected his mistake.

Btw--there was no choir. Only three chanters.

The two neighboring GOA parishes are in the same boat, except they used more Greek...up to 10% of all that was spoken in one case!

What I find interesting, Elisha and Timos, is that your own posts support my contention more than your own. The GOA is a large group of people, with many parishes that have different needs. The priest should be able to exercise a pastoral decision to use whatever language suits the parish at that time.

You may dispute the decision made by the priest, but as soon as you are able to know all the factors involved in that preist's decision, let me know. Your powers of clairvoyance are quite remarkable indeed.

In the Antiochian parish in which I was chrismated, services are 100% English. In the OCA parish I now attend, the only non-English in the services in in the Kyrie, which alternates among Greek, English, Arabic, and Old Church Slavonic.

[americanorthodox]

I disagree with this. 90% of the ACROD parishes are located in areas from Ohio eastward. The heaviest concentrations are New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut. The Deaneries of Chicago and Florida are dwindling in membership almost if not worse than the churches in the other deaneries, but the seat of ACROD is located in Johnstown, PA. However, with Met. Nicholas in charge, who knows where this might go. I can certainly see people fleeing ACROD as many already have. The big problem with ACROD is that the birth rate and retention rate are growing at a much slower rate than the death rate, as ACROD is made up of alot of Elderly members. The children, however, are not really staying in the church as ACROD has developed a very liberal view of orthodoxy (in my opinion of course).

-Nick

I have to agree. I live in Pennsylvania. Orthodox -- and Byzantine Catholics -- are common as dirt.

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