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Author Topic: Dublin RC archdiocese: 102 priests abused 350 children since 1940  (Read 6013 times) Average Rating: 0
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TomS
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« on: March 08, 2006, 11:16:08 AM »

BREAKING NEWS - Roman Catholic archdiocese of Dublin report says 102 priests are suspected of sexually or physically abusing at least 350 children since 1940, The Associated Press reports.

-------

When will society close this Whore of Babylon down and burn all their perverted "boys club" hangouts? A can of petrol and a match should get it goin!

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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2006, 11:22:24 AM »

102 priests out of how many priests total? And should say, public schools be shut down in their entirety if say, 5 teachers out of 100 molest students over a 20 year period?

I of course think these priests if still alive should be jailed and think it's worse that the bishops probably kept silent about all of this and think any such bishop should be suspended or deposed. However, this does not negate all the good things the Catholic Church does in the past 70 years, such as running orphanages, soup kitchens, AIDS ministries (when's the last time you saw a good secular AIDS hospice, I mean REALLY?), etc.

Anastasios
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2006, 01:26:03 PM »

And should say, public schools be shut down in their entirety if say, 5 teachers out of 100 molest students over a 20 year period?

Oh Please. Not this BS argument. The public school teachers you hear about are not molesting 5 to 10 year old children! It is a reach to label almost ANY of those "abuse".
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2006, 01:42:01 PM »

Well, I live in Greece and it's not like we don't have abuses here.
I've heard a lot about a few priests in Albania (Greek priests)
that rape small children. Also, there is an interesting talk show
tonight about Orthodox monastaries in Greece and their abuses
(raping, stealing people's money and tamata etc.).
It seems that the Whore of Babylon has an Eastern side too.  Wink
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2006, 01:56:29 PM »

I of course think these priests if still alive should be jailed and think it's worse that the bishops probably kept silent about all of this and think any such bishop should be suspended or deposed.

If the priests are alive, defrock them and submit them to the criminal courts...but as for the bishops, they were simply doing their duty, to protect the institution above all else, it's the same approach many of our bishops take and I believe their conduct to be most commendable.
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2006, 02:00:21 PM »

If the priests are alive, defrock them and submit them to the criminal courts...but as for the bishops, they were simply doing their duty, to protect the institution above all else, it's the same approach many of our bishops take and I believe their conduct to be most commendable.

Their duty is to Christ above all. Protecting criminals and allowing more abuse to occur seems to go in the face of that.
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2006, 02:01:47 PM »

Their duty is to Christ above all. Protecting criminals and allowing more abuse to occur seems to go in the face of that.

The duty to Christ is served by protecting the Church, the point isn't to protect criminals but to hopefully prevent scandal...if that requires the protection of criminals, then so be it.
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 02:09:00 PM »

The duty to Christ is served by protecting the Church, the point isn't to protect criminals but to hopefully prevent scandal...if that requires the protection of criminals, then so be it.

No. The Church does not need protected; it is the body of Christ.  When scandal errupts, the only solution is to punish the offenders openly and honestly.  Then there is nothing to be scandalized about.

Turning the Church into a makebelieve land where nothing goes wrong to the eye but behind the scenes untold evil is occurring is a recipe for disaster and loss of faith when exposed.

Sins of clergy against other Christians must be dealt with publicly, not swept under the rug.

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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 02:12:07 PM »

No. The Church does not need protected; it is the body of Christ.  When scandal errupts, the only solution is to punish the offenders openly and honestly.  Then there is nothing to be scandalized about.

Turning the Church into a makebelieve land where nothing goes wrong to the eye but behind the scenes untold evil is occurring is a recipe for disaster and loss of faith when exposed.

Sins of clergy against other Christians must be dealt with publicly, not swept under the rug.

Anastasios

The goal is to sweep it under the rug so that it's never exposed, and thus never effects most people's faith. But even if it is eventually exposed, better to have one big story that comes and goes over a couple years than 102 over the course of 60 years...if the choice is between one scandal every 60 years or one scandal every 6 months, I know which one a responsible leader in the Church would choose.
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2006, 02:50:24 PM »

I have not heard many scandalized that this happened GisC--most of the outcry I have heard is that it was covered up.  People understand that priests are human.

Those 102 children and their parents suffered silently because of those bishops' cowardice.  Their souls may have been lost because of the actions of those bishops. Those bishops will pay.

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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2006, 03:27:53 PM »

I agree with Anastasios 100%.
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 03:51:47 PM »

Hopefully there is a special place in Hell for those that aide sexual predators... and for that matter those who think such is beneficial for the church.
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 03:56:24 PM »

I agree with Anastasios 100%.

Me too.
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 04:00:31 PM »

Oh Please. Not this BS argument. The public school teachers you hear about are not molesting 5 to 10 year old children! It is a reach to label almost ANY of those "abuse".  

It was a hypothetical statement: if you did a study of elementary schools and found that 100 teachers molested 350 kids would you want the elementary school system shut down?  What about the benefits that elementary schools provide for families and society at-large?

Don't protect the priests, but don't shut down the church because the idiots steering the ship don't know which way to go.  We'll all drown in our sin without it.
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 04:09:19 PM »

Quote
Don't protect the priests, but don't shut down the church because the idiots steering the ship don't know which way to go.  We'll all drown in our sin without it.

If, OTOH, the institution of the Church feels it is above the law (and it seems many higher ups in both Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism do feel that way) the state is obligated to start throwing bishops who protect predator priests in jail (or like to deal with money OCA style).  In the end it is better for the church to get rid of these parasites from the ranks of the clergy - people understand that even a good tree has a few bad apples, but they are much less likely to forgive when the system itself encourages corruption.  
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 04:19:22 PM »

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8381.msg110526#msg110526 date=1141848559]
If, OTOH, the institution of the Church feels it is above the law (and it seems many higher ups in both Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism do feel that way) the state is obligated to start throwing bishops who protect predator priests in jail (or like to deal with money OCA style).  In the end it is better for the church to get rid of these parasites from the ranks of the clergy - people understand that even a good tree has a few bad apples, but they are much less likely to forgive when the system itself encourages corruption.  [/quote]

Yea, but the "institution of the Church" does not feel that it is above the law... so whether the bishops and priests do, that is irrelevant.  The bishops and priests who are the problems need to be ejected by the Church, and then prosecuted.  We must always make the distinction between what the institution believes and what the bishops/priests believe, for the Church is in its fullest with bishop, priests, and people... if any parts are causing pain to the body, they must be cut off...
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 04:25:30 PM »

Oh Please. Not this BS argument. The public school teachers you hear about are not molesting 5 to 10 year old children! It is a reach to label almost ANY of those "abuse".

Oh? Really? Tom, hate to break it to you, but I know people who were molested by teachers and volunteers at school!!!!
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2006, 04:36:23 PM »

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8381.msg110526#msg110526 date=1141848559]
If, OTOH, the institution of the Church feels it is above the law (and it seems many higher ups in both Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism do feel that way) the state is obligated to start throwing bishops who protect predator priests in jail (or like to deal with money OCA style).
[/quote]

If the law requires the Church to expose scandal and in doing so harm the faith of her followers, the Bishops then have the duty to disregard the law, at all costs, in order to protect the Church from scandal and protect the faith of the multitude of the believers.
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2006, 04:38:02 PM »

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8381.msg110520#msg110520 date=1141847507]
Hopefully there is a special place in Hell for those that aide sexual predators... and for that matter those who think such is beneficial for the church.
[/quote]

On one hand, we should not go to the extreme of supporting them, on the other hand we should not go to the extreme of judging them. We should bring them to justice, yes, but we should also forgive them, and pray that they repent.
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2006, 04:39:40 PM »

On one hand, we should not go to the extreme of supporting them, on the other hand we should not go to the extreme of judging them. We should bring them to justice, yes, but we should also forgive them, and pray that they repent.

Bring justice to those who actually committed a crime...those whose only crime was a desire to protect the Church, and a desire to place the Church above all else, have done no evil and should be commended for their efforts.
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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2006, 09:41:07 PM »

Oh? Really? Tom, hate to break it to you, but I know people who were molested by teachers and volunteers at school!!!!

Which Catholic school was that?  Wink
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2006, 02:27:50 AM »

Bring justice to those who actually committed a crime...those whose only crime was a desire to protect the Church, and a desire to place the Church above all else, have done no evil and should be commended for their efforts.

You know, I actually think that you are quite eloquent and intelligent and well-read.  I think you make some brilliant arguments to support so many of your positions that you take on this board.  And then I see stuff like this, and ......oh never mind.
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2006, 02:05:39 AM »

...if the choice is between one scandal every 60 years or one scandal every 6 months, I know which one a responsible leader in the Church would choose.

If the bishops are pulling those people out and the laity are kept aware, there won't ever be a scandal every 6 months!
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2006, 02:18:56 AM »

If the bishops are pulling those people out and the laity are kept aware, there won't ever be a scandal every 6 months!

People do these things with the expectation that they will not be caught, not the expectation that they will be caught and then be let off...there would be a scandal every 6 months if all such cases were made public. The Church is just like any other institution, and just a sometimes a country has to cover things up for the sake of propaganda and PR, so also must the Church do the same; ideals are nice, but it's politics, not ideals, that have allowed the Church to survive and prosper. Sometimes you just have to get off your moralistic high horse and take the pragmatic approach and that is what many bishops have done and in the end, whether you're comfortable with it or not, the Church is probably better off as a result.
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2006, 03:12:33 AM »

People do these things with the expectation that they will not be caught, not the expectation that they will be caught and then be let off...there would be a scandal every 6 months if all such cases were made public.

Sorta reminds me of a certain Orthodox jurisdiction (which shall remain nameless) that has been making the news as of late...
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2006, 05:01:22 AM »

People do these things with the expectation that they will not be caught, not the expectation that they will be caught and then be let off...there would be a scandal every 6 months if all such cases were made public.

The Church is just like any other institution,

and just a sometimes a country has to cover things up for the sake of propaganda and PR, so also must the Church do the same; ideals are nice, but it's politics, not ideals, that have allowed the Church to survive and prosper. Sometimes you just have to get off your moralistic high horse and take the pragmatic approach and that is what many bishops have done and in the end, whether you're comfortable with it or not, the Church is probably better off as a result.

Surely some issue would come up, but it would more than likely be of lesser magnitude. And if the Orthodox Church was actively working on finding these people are prosecuting them in some way, it wouldn;t be a scandal anymore, would it? Little is more scandalous than a coverup, a web of lies from the top.

If you don't count it being the Body of Christ and unconquerable by Hades, sure.

You should tell all those who died under the pre-Constantinian Roman Empire to get off their "moralistic high horse."
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2006, 09:33:24 AM »

Bring justice to those who actually committed a crime...those whose only crime was a desire to protect the Church, and a desire to place the Church above all else, have done no evil and should be commended for their efforts.

What are they protecting the Church from?  Bad publicity?  The laity finding out that somethng bad has been happening?  

Such "protection" could allow crimes to continue to happen. Then would there be the case of that very inaction, the not stopping something from occurring that is a crime is an crime in itself?  An accessory to a crime?

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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2006, 10:03:20 AM »

Actually, I think it would have been better for the Roman Church if these priests were excommunicated and dealt harshly.  One time, a monk priest in our Church was caught having sex behind the altar with a woman, and this man was excommunicated by the Pope.  I believe people in heirarchy must be dealt with harshly.

Now, because of these worldwide scandals, the RC is getting weaker; the bishops made a bad move.

God bless.

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« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2006, 10:11:40 AM »

Actually, I think it would have been better for the Roman Church if these priests were excommunicated and dealt harshly.  One time, a monk priest in our Church was caught having sex behind the altar with a woman, and this man was excommunicated by the Pope.  I believe people in heirarchy must be dealt with harshly.

Behind the altar?!?  Good Golly!

I wonder if one person's "protect the Church" is another person's "Cover-up"

Ebor
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« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2006, 11:13:21 AM »

What are they protecting the Church from?  Bad publicity?  The laity finding out that somethng bad has been happening? ÂÂ

Such "protection" could allow crimes to continue to happen. Then would there be the case of that very inaction, the not stopping something from occurring that is a crime is an crime in itself?  An accessory to a crime?

Ebor

To expound on this, don't our prayers (for confession and such) ask for forgiveness for crimes/sins of omission?  I don't see how covering up or turning a blind eye can be "protection" and not a sin of omission.
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« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2006, 03:51:09 PM »

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ideals are nice, but it's politics, not ideals, that have allowed the Church to survive and prosper.

Funny, I always thought it was the Grace of God and holy people!  Grin
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« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2006, 03:57:39 PM »

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One time, a monk priest in our Church was caught having sex behind the altar with a woman, and this man was excommunicated by the Pope.

If we are talking about the same monk, Barsom, he was excommunicated alright, for his relations with women and other wrong deeds, but the story about having sex in the altar is an exaggeration and a balant lie by a fanatic islamic newspaper called "El-Isboo3", editor by Mamdouh and Hatem Mahran, among other very dirty allegations that were proven to be lies. Mamdouh Mahran, the editor in chief of the newspaper, was sued by the Church and got three years in prison for his lies, yet it was reduced to one year which he spent in a hospital based on fictional medical report about his conditions. He was in excellent health and continued his assualt on the Christians from the hospital.  He died on the day he was supposed to be released.



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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2006, 05:21:30 PM »

Thank you Stavro for the correction.

I thought that story was a little strange, but people kept telling me that story.

Thank you.

God bless.

Mina
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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2006, 08:19:06 PM »

Before I get my panties all twisted up in knots . . . does anyone have a link to the original AP story or another credible source?
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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2006, 08:42:56 PM »

Before I get my panties all twisted up in knots . . .

Don't you mean "my Depends (tm)"  Cheesy
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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2006, 08:48:08 PM »

A Protestant (high church) minister once raped his daughter ON the altar at his church in borad daylight. Someone walked in on the scene, was horrified, and then walked out. I have no clue why that person did not report the minister to the police immediately. It took years for his daughter to say what had happened to her.

As for the RCC, I don't understand why the priests weren't excommunicated or dealt with but without all of the media coverage. I'm sure there could've been a way to deal with them without having it all over the news.
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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2006, 10:10:18 PM »

Don't you mean "my Depends (tm)"  Cheesy

Not Yet.  I'm still in panties.

P Cheesy
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« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2006, 11:04:18 AM »

BREAKING NEWS - Roman Catholic archdiocese of Dublin report says 102 priests are suspected of sexually or physically abusing at least 350 children since 1940, The Associated Press reports.

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When will society close this Whore of Babylon down and burn all their perverted "boys club" hangouts? A can of petrol and a match should get it goin!



I take it that you wish to burn down my church?
Well thanks for the love. Roll Eyes
I find your sentiments totally repellent and disgusting.  I think you should be ashamed of yourself
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« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2006, 11:09:55 AM »

I find your sentiments totally repellent and disgusting. ÂÂ

Get in line.
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Elisha
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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2006, 11:15:30 AM »

I take it that you wish to burn down my church?
Well thanks for the love. Roll Eyes
I find your sentiments totally repellent and disgusting.  I think you should be ashamed of yourself


Don't worry - many of us find his statements unnecessarily vitriolic as well.
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« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2006, 11:34:27 AM »

Don't worry - many of us find his statements unnecessarily vitriolic as well.

However, the many hundreds of thousands of victims sexually molested and the millions killed by this den of snakes do not.
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« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2006, 12:46:01 PM »

Thank you Stavro for the correction.
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Yeah, after all, they told you so ......

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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2006, 02:32:47 PM »

However, the many hundreds of thousands of victims sexually molested and the millions killed by this den of snakes do not.

Is this a good example of loving ones neighbour?
Why do you hate us so much that you would say such things?
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« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2010, 06:05:07 AM »

I am in sydney and we had a priest that molested little boys-as soon as he admitted his sin to everyone -the archibishop of australia defrocked him. Their is forgiveness but they cant serve in the church anymore.
There is good and bad in every faith. What these priests that commit these crimes fail to realise, whether they be orthdox, catholic, anglican protestant etc is that they crucifity the church of christ. They turn lay people off the faith and destroy peoples souls. I hardly think god at the end of the day is going to turn to a victim and that no longer believes in god- because of there sins and condemn these people. These priests that do this are evil human beings who never knew who god was in the first place. SIMPLE
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« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2010, 06:49:10 AM »

I am in sydney and we had a priest that molested little boys-as soon as he admitted his sin to everyone -the archibishop of australia defrocked him. Their is forgiveness but they cant serve in the church anymore.
There is good and bad in every faith. What these priests that commit these crimes fail to realise, whether they be orthdox, catholic, anglican protestant etc is that they crucifity the church of christ. They turn lay people off the faith and destroy peoples souls. I hardly think god at the end of the day is going to turn to a victim and that no longer believes in god- because of there sins and condemn these people. These priests that do this are evil human beings who never knew who god was in the first place. SIMPLE


The Majority seem to be Roman Catholic Though,,Orthodoxy will defrock ,catholics shift them around For years its costing them billions to learn ..there having to close and sell quite a lot of churches seminaries ,convents, monasteries, to cover the lawsuits..
No church should be that desperate to keep known predatory clergy because of a priest shortage...The catholic  church is reaping finally what it sowed ,,By allowing this evil for years or even centuries to continnue...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 07:15:44 AM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
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