Author Topic: Have you ever thought  (Read 354 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Skydive

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 656
Have you ever thought
« on: March 02, 2015, 07:30:32 AM »
"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men," REVELATION 13:13

could be a reference to the "Miracle of the Holy Fire" ?
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll

Offline Volnutt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,145
  • Faith: Spiritually homeless
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2015, 07:58:57 AM »
"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men," REVELATION 13:13

could be a reference to the "Miracle of the Holy Fire" ?

I and many Orthodox think the Holy Fire is a hoax. Regardless, the Patriarch of Jerusalem being the Beast makes no sense in any interpretation of Revelation.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 07:59:20 AM by Volnutt »

Offline Fabio Leite

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,169
    • Vida Ortodoxa
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 09:49:07 AM »
"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men," REVELATION 13:13

could be a reference to the "Miracle of the Holy Fire" ?

I and many Orthodox think the Holy Fire is a hoax. Regardless, the Patriarch of Jerusalem being the Beast makes no sense in any interpretation of Revelation.

I tend to think it is. But also, if it is, it would be very easy for Muslims and Jews to shame the Church by exposing it, and many of them would just love it. Their lack of action related to that along the centuries is, to me, evidence it might not be a hoax.
Many energies, three persons, two natures, one God, one Church, one Baptism.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,971
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 09:52:03 AM »
Actually a pretty good question. I have no clue about the answer.


Selam
""Love is a dangerous thing. It will crush you if you trust it. But without it you can never be whole. Love crucifies, but love saves. We will either be saved together with love, or damned alone without it."    Selam, +GMK+

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,465
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 11:32:47 AM »
"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men," REVELATION 13:13

could be a reference to the "Miracle of the Holy Fire" ?

LOL.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline Antonis

  • Μέγα το Θαυμά!
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,844
  • Πρώτο ο Θεός
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOA - Direct Archdiocesan District
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 11:39:46 AM »
"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men," REVELATION 13:13

could be a reference to the "Miracle of the Holy Fire" ?

LOL.
Be quiet, GN.  :police:
As I dissipate, Christ precipitates.

Offline Skydive

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 656
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 07:35:39 AM »
So is the OC the beast then?

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:11
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,047
  • In life as in art, grace glides on blistered feet.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 07:38:36 AM »
Oh crap, the official manual has been leaked!

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox

Offline Tallitot

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,768
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 07:44:49 AM »
"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men," REVELATION 13:13

could be a reference to the "Miracle of the Holy Fire" ?

I and many Orthodox think the Holy Fire is a hoax. Regardless, the Patriarch of Jerusalem being the Beast makes no sense in any interpretation of Revelation.

I tend to think it is. But also, if it is, it would be very easy for Muslims and Jews to shame the Church by exposing it, and many of them would just love it. Their lack of action related to that along the centuries is, to me, evidence it might not be a hoax.
It could also be evidence that anything that attracks travelers to the area isn't going to exposed by anyone. ;)
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Hamartolos

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 799
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 07:50:34 AM »
I saw this a long time ago: http://youtu.be/pY1ikm0p0Z4

He shows how easy it would be to make the candle ignite without a flame.  I haven't seen it in a long time but I think he uses phosphorus... 

Offline Volnutt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,145
  • Faith: Spiritually homeless
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 08:02:43 AM »
It's too bad that Fr. Lawrence Farley isn't this far on his podcast going through Revelation clause-by-clause (nor will he be until something like 2019  :laugh:). Anybody have his book handy?

My guess is that the immediate context is talking about the sacred flame maintained day and night by the Vestal Virgins.

It could also have something to do with one of the miracles attributed to the Roman Emperors by their cultus (I think it was Suetonius who records a story that Vespasian once healed a paralytic).

A reference to Elijah or to Luke 9:55 is also possible.

More generally, warnings about "lying signs and wonders" show up many times in the NT so it's unsurprising that such things would be done by the expected antichrist.

Offline Volnutt

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,145
  • Faith: Spiritually homeless
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 08:14:51 AM »
So is the OC the beast then?

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:11

Well, if you ask the Reformers, the Orthodox Church was too off the radar to be the Beast so it would have to be the Pope :laugh:

But seriously, how do you expect a question like that to be answered on an Orthodox board? The balance of evidence points to a 1st Century beast as the Roman Empire as well as a future beast as a false Messiah/political leader.

More importantly though,

Quote
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. -1 John 2:22

Offline Fabio Leite

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,169
    • Vida Ortodoxa
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 10:30:22 AM »
"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men," REVELATION 13:13

could be a reference to the "Miracle of the Holy Fire" ?

I and many Orthodox think the Holy Fire is a hoax. Regardless, the Patriarch of Jerusalem being the Beast makes no sense in any interpretation of Revelation.

I tend to think it is. But also, if it is, it would be very easy for Muslims and Jews to shame the Church by exposing it, and many of them would just love it. Their lack of action related to that along the centuries is, to me, evidence it might not be a hoax.
It could also be evidence that anything that attracks travelers to the area isn't going to exposed by anyone. ;)

As we can see even today, radicals don't act rational. Maybe some cynical leaders would rather keep it, but sooner or later crazies would do something
Many energies, three persons, two natures, one God, one Church, one Baptism.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,649
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 11:45:15 AM »
So is the OC the beast then?

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:11
Suddenly, this theory is starting to make more sense to me...  :P
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline wgw

  • Amateur Liturgical Enthusiast
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,236
  • The above Syriac icon is of St. Athansius.
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 08:02:47 PM »
I have to confess that I've long feared Holy Fire might be a pious fraud, a technological derivative of the Greek incendiary weapon known as Greek Fire, which we have yet to replicate with certainty.  But I hope to be proven wrong.  I've seen scientific explanations involving white phosphor.

Now I have the utmost respect for our Orthodox bishops, but the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is, due to the multiplicity of jurisdictions present and the bitter relations between them, not IMO a good place.  When you consider that even Coptic and Ethiopian monks, who are more closely related in terms of enomination than anyone else there, managed to get into a brawl, well, I just don't think the monastic climate is healthy.  And it's not at all inconceivable that many pious and God fearing Patriarchs of Jerusalem have unwittingly participated in a pious fraud.

But I hope I'm wrong and it's real.  I have confidence in the location of the Church, and in the finding of the True Cross and the other events surrounding the pilgrimage of St. Helena the wife of Constantine to the Holy City.  And we do have the weird incident, perhaps caused by natural gas, of fireballs scorching the workers who under Julian the Apostate tried to rebuild the temple.

I really want to make a pilgrimage there, with faith, but bring my own measuring equipment.  But if Holy Fire is a fraud it wouldn't shake my faith at all, since it's a phenomenon that started hundreds of years after that church was constructed and the devotional services established by blessed St. Cyril of Jerusalem, one of the most accomplished liturgists of all time, and it would be an isolated, if high profile, problem, confined to one patriarchate.  Sort of an Orthodox equivalent of the stigmata of St. Francis.
Antisemitism, racism and prejudicial nationalism should have no place in Orthodoxy.  For to paraphrase  St. Paul, there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither male nor female, slave or freeman, in the Christian Church.

Offline Jonathan Gress

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,539
Re: Have you ever thought
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 08:47:59 PM »
OP has an appropriate name for "fire falling from heaven". Maybe he's the miracle?