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Author Topic: Islam and the 21st century: A must see video!  (Read 6377 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: March 07, 2006, 04:21:19 AM »

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

Very brave lady taking on the islamo-fascist.....

Anyone think she'll still be alive this time next year? Or next month?
She did a great job pointing out the foibles of Islam. There's probably already been a Fatah or Fatwah, whatever it's called issued on her, hopefully, like Rushdie, she'll find a way to survive it......Would be great if she could be given a daily show that was broadcasted across the middle east.... Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: March 07, 2006, 04:33:30 AM by Nacho » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 04:34:42 AM »

Two things:

- The link isn't working. It's been "squished" by the forum.

- It sounds, from what I hear already, that this may belong in the Politics section!

EDIT: Thanks for fixing the link!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2006, 04:35:08 AM by Bizzlebin » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 05:37:32 AM »

It's not letting me see the movie on my sub-dial-up connection. Keeps trying to re-buffer and re-download every time I download it. From what it's letting me see, I am getting no video, and only an audio speech in a Middle-Eastern language. Any ideas?
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 09:07:23 AM »

It's not letting me see the movie on my sub-dial-up connection. Keeps trying to re-buffer and re-download every time I download it. From what it's letting me see, I am getting no video, and only an audio speech in a Middle-Eastern language. Any ideas?

All I can say is "WOW" what a powerful indictment of the radical Islamists, and on a Arab network TV program.  I do fear for her life for coming out like this but it has to be done and I have not seen any men coming out with this much force and she even stiffled a Mullah who was taking the opposite point.  She is very brave and I pray that nothing happens to her.  IM SURE THAT THIS INTERVIEW WILL NOT BE SEEN ON THE PATHETIC MAJOR NETWORKS IN AMERICA AND THIS IS A SHAME.  A great video and a keeper.

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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 01:01:23 PM »

Is there any way this will play on a MAC??  i'm still trying to figure out options...any ideas?
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2006, 04:08:29 PM »

Try this...S1389

If you live on the second floor or higher, open your window, take Mac, hold out open window, let go.  Once you hear a crash, go to Best Buy, Circuit City or any other electronics store.

Purchase a PC.

Click on link.

Should work fine.  Tongue Grin Grin
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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2006, 05:25:25 PM »

SS99,

Try this....stare at your blue screen of death for hours on end...until it truly becomes the blue screen of DEATH  Shocked Grin Tongue Wink

Or even better, try to SWIM through the viruses, spyware and other junk on your PC.  There should be MORE than enough balast  Tongue
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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2006, 05:32:12 PM »

Great video!
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2006, 05:33:30 PM »

Although a bit sad that her exposure to Islam has shattered her sense of the supernatural...
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2006, 06:04:13 PM »

Although a bit sad that her exposure to Islam has shattered her sense of the supernatural...

Better an atheist than a moslem.
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2006, 02:50:46 AM »

Very good video.  Get her on Oprah!
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 04:42:16 AM »

Here's a snippet from part of a transcript I found for those that couldn't see the video:

-    Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

    Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.

    [...]

    Wafa Sultan: My colleague has said that he never offends other people’s beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the “People of the Book,” and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians “those who incur Allah’s wrath.” Who told you that they are “People of the Book”? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them “those who incur Allah’s wrath,” or “those who have gone astray,” and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?

    I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others’ right to believe in it.

    Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

    Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

    Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

    Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.

    [...]

    Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don’t throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people’s beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.

------------------------------


Hmmm......Fatwah's issued by crazy mullahs accross the middle east with I's dotted & T's crossed in.....
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Yea, this women is all but dead. I hope she has 24 hour surveillence and a few guns laying around the house because I'm sure that after the practitioners of the religion of peace see this they will be gunning for her. This was freakin' sheer brilliance and gutsy on her part to go on Al Jazeera of all places and silence that clown of a mullah she was debating. All he was reduced to was calling her a 'heretic' and that she would incur the wrath of Allah, what an a$$hat! I'm sure millions of women across the middle east were silently cheering for her! I guess if it takes an ex-muslim turned securlarist to speak reason & logic to these people, then so be it. We have already learned that the so called moderate muslims (the silence of moderate muslims...is...deadening!)don't have the time to do this, and if they do it's all platitudes filled with BS and shallow half apologies, so bravo to this brave soul! I kept expecting her to kowtow to Islam on some points, but not only does she not show the least bit of reverence, she praises the jews and western culture! Bravo! I loved her examples of not one jew blew themselves up in hitlers germany to take revenge, not one budhist blew himself up to take revenge for the budhist shrines that have been blown to pieces by the islamist, not one christian has blown themsleves up to take revenge for all the destroyed churches accross the middle east...Keep an eye out for this lady, Wafa Sultan! She's an up & comer and I'm sure we will be hearing more from her as long as she is alive. I think i'll add her to my short list of heroes lol... Grin


--------------

This also isn't the first time she has spoken out against the medieval warriors we are now dealing with. Take a look at this:
http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=783
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2005/07/007434print.html


July 30, 2005
LA psychologist clashes with Algerian jihadist over Islamic teachings and terrorism

We need more interviewers like Wafa Sultan who aren't afraid to challenge jihadist distortions, obfuscations, and sleights of hand. Instead, the mainstream media is awash with dhimmis on both the left and the right. "LA Psycohologyst [sic] Wafa Sultan Clashes with Algerian Islamist Ahmad bin Muhammad over Islamic Teachings and Terrorism," from MEMRITV, with thanks to Alain:

Wafa Sultan, a psychologist from LA, here speaks with Dr. Ahmad Bin Muhammad, an Algerian professor -- this was aired on Al-Jazeera on July 26, 2005. Sultan starts out by asking him why Muslim men become suicide bombers. She speaks plainly about the role of Islam:

    Wafa Sultan: [...]In our countries, religion is the sole source of education, and is the only spring from which that terrorist drank until his thirst was quenched. He was not born a terrorist, and did not become a terrorist overnight. Islamic teachings played a role in weaving his ideological fabric, thread by thread, and did not allow other sources — I am referring to scientific sources — to play a role. It was these teachings that distorted this terrorist and killed his humanity. It was not (the terrorist) who distorted the religious teachings and misunderstood them, as some ignorant people claim.

    When you recite to a child still in his early years the verse: "They will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off," regardless of this verse's interpretation, and regardless of the reasons it was conveyed or its time — you have made the first step towards creating a great terrorist...

In response, Dr. bin Muhammad plays the deflection game, or tu quoque, as Hugh Fitzgerald has labeled it:

    Bin Muhammad: The guest from America asked how a young man could blow up a bus. If only she had asked how a president could blow up a peaceful nation in Iraq. How does a president help the arch-killer of occupied Palestine? Why doesn't she ask from where Hitler was brought up — Hitler, who murdered 50 million innocent people. Why doesn't she ask where the people who dropped two atom bombs on Japan were educated? Who killed three million innocent Vietnamese? Who annihilated the Indians? Who maintained imperialism to this day? Who waged the Spanish civil war, which exacted a toll of 600,000 in 36 months? Why don't we ask these questions? Who has over 15,000 nuclear warheads — Muslims or the non-Muslims? The Muslims or the Americans? The Muslims or the Europeans? We want an answer. Where was Bush educated — if education is really what makes a person a criminal?...

But Wafa Sultan, unlike so many others, is not about to let him get away with it:

    Wafa Sultan: Murder is terrorism regardless of time or place, but when it is committed as a decree from Allah, this is another matter...

    The Crusader wars about which the professor is talking — these wars came after the Islamic religious teachings, and as a response to these teachings. This is the law of action and reaction. The Islamic religious teachings have incited to the rejection of the other, to the denial of the other, and to the killing of the other. Have they not incited to the killing of Jews and Christians? If we had heard that a tribe in a distant corner of China has a holy book and religious teachings calling to kill Muslims — would the Muslims stand idly by in the face of such teachings?

    The Crusader wars came after these Islamic religious teachings. When these Islamic teachings were delivered, America did not exist on the face of the earth, nor was Israel in Palestine...

    Why doesn't he talk about the Muslim conquests that preceded all the wars he is talking about? Why doesn't he mention that when Tariq bin Ziyyad entered Andalusia with his armies, he said to his people: "The sea is behind you, and the enemy is in front"? How can you storm a peaceful country, and consider all its peaceful inhabitants to be your enemies, merely because you have the right to spread your religion? Should the religion be spread by the sword and through fighting?...

Stunned, the good doctor flails about:

    Bin Muhammad: Who invented slavery in recent centuries? Who colonized the other — us or them? Did Algeria colonize France, or vice versa? Did Egypt colonize England, or vice versa? We are the victims...

    I am not saying that killing innocent people is nice. I say that all innocent people should be protected. But at the same time, we must start with the innocent among the Muslims. There are millions of innocent people among us, while the innocent among you — and innocent they are — number only dozens, hundreds, or thousands, at the most...

    Wafa Sultan: Can you explain to me the killing of a hundred thousand children, women and men in Algeria, using the most abominable killing methods? Can you explain to me the killing of 15,000 Syrian civilians? Can you explain to me the abominable crime in the military artillery school in Aleppo? Can you explain the crime in Al-Asbaqiya neighborhood of Damascus, Syria? Can you explain the attack of the terrorists on the peaceful village of Al-Kisheh in Upper Egypt, and the massacre of 21 Coptic peasants? Can you explain to me what is going on in Indonesia, Turkey, and Egypt, even though these are Islamic countries which opposed the American intervention in Iraq, and which don't have armies in Iraq, yet were not spared by the terrorists? Can you explain these phenomena, which took place in Arab countries? Was all this revenge on America or Israel? Or were they merely to satisfy bestial wild instincts aroused in them by religious teachings, which incite to rejection of the other, to the killing of the other, and to the denial of the other. When Saddam Hussein buried 300,000 Shiites and Kurds alive, we did not hear a single Muslim protesting. Your silence served to acknowledge the legitimacy of these killings, didn't it?...


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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 07:34:58 AM »

She's either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid for doing this; but hey, the message of truth is getting out there about Islam.  Let's hope she survives a few more years to put these idiots in their place.
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 12:01:19 PM »

Quote
She's either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid for doing this; but hey, the message of truth is getting out there about Islam.  Let's hope she survives a few more years to put these idiots in their place.

Yea, this women is exactly what we need to combat islam & more like her please! ....a sane voice that drowns out the constant drumbeat of insanest from the insane mullahs. I guess she can take the place of the moderate muslims that mysteriously seem to be absent...
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 03:57:32 PM »

I agree somewhat with this woman, at least in terms of her direct observations of Islam itself, though in practically everything else she was deluded (either by her education or her bittnerness.)

At the same time, I can't get into the "rah-rah" corner for the bushies or the other neo-con swine, who have entirely different motives than the Protestant "millenialists" (or those with delusions of renewing the Crusades)...at best, these hegellian hucksters only throw the occassional scrap to such peoplle, in order to keep their support.  Nor can I get "hot" over the prospect of bloodshed, as it's quite obvious many "Christians" do.

It is true, Islam = objective blasphemy.  Besides the obvious problems in it's creed and common implimentation throughout history, though, we've done a pretty good job (the west in general) of screwing up this region in our interventions thus far (whether we speak about the often arbitrary borders the British gave them, or this latest adventure in Iraq which I think in the end is either going to necessitate further conflicts, or degenerate into a civil war once the Americans leave....basically, a few thousand young Americans dead, to establish yet another "Islamic Republic".)

What is really needful, as always, is in the spiritual and moral realm - and it begins at home.  While the faith of the Mohammedans is largely in lies, it is superior to the de facto atheism of the west, if only because it is stronger and creates harder, more principled men.  We are not even quite sure what we are, yet we expect victory over our "Assyrians", as it were?  We (speaking broadly of westerners in general, not simply America) kill babies like we take out the trash, yet we call the Muslims bloodthirsty?  We have sodomites prancing in parades and basically "recruiting" amongst an increasingly bewildered youth...and we're going to poo-poo the Muslims for being too restrictive in their "excessive" modesty?  We idolize whoredom, but give sermons to Muslims on "women's rights"?

There are big problems here, problems which do cry up to Heaven at least as much as anything the Muslims are guilty of.  So while this lady's anti-Muslim argument is fundamentally correct, the idea that we are on stable ground ourselves as a civilization is delusional.  We of course pray for our own, because they are family (just as we pray for our family) - but let us not be so deluded as to not perceive our own filthiness, and thus be emboldenedd with a confidence in God's blessing of our every endevour despite the fact that "we" (if we can speak of a corporate individual here) do not honour Him (let alone particularly love Him).

Upon reflection, I often feel our own position to be akin to that of the earliest Christians living in Rome.  I "pray for the Emperor" and the institutions of the state; but I fully recognize there is much that is rotten about both Caesar and his Empire, and would not be at all surprised if God favoured the barbarians over us.

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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 04:54:14 PM »

Augustine, I think you miss the whole point. She wasn't there to discuss the value of who's customs are better. Her mission was solely to point out the hypocrisy of Islam which seems to have a history of not being able to live in peace with it's neighbors. Some of the SIDE issues you bring up I can agree with, but it's not really relevant to the video. Also,you think that there is not just as much 'sin' in these Arab countries that portray themselves as being so Godly & clean? Not to sound like John Stossel, but give me a break! I can guarantee you that there is just as much filth & perversion that can be found there like anywhere else, some of them of course hide it much better considering their lives may be threatened if they do it out in the open. To tell you the truth, I'll take the gay's parading in the streets anyday over living in a society filled with fear and threats of violence; and having to worry about muslims flying planes into buildings, car & restaurant bombings or blowing up a bus full of children. What's the point in living in a place like that which may have the external virtues which you talk about but they don't have the decency to treat their neighbors kindly? I'll take the free and open society anyday, plus if you really believe in free will people should have the right to do what they short of physical violence.
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 11:08:47 PM »

I agree somewhat with this woman, at least in terms of her direct observations of Islam itself, though in practically everything else she was deluded (either by her education or her bittnerness.)

Deluded by her education? It's comments like that which make me have to step back and ask, is Christianity really any better than Islam. Fortunately I can read Origen, St. Clement of Alexandria, or St. Gregory of Nyssa and see what real Christianity is and dismiss such nonsense.

Quote
At the same time, I can't get into the "rah-rah" corner for the bushies or the other neo-con swine, who have entirely different motives than the Protestant "millenialists" (or those with delusions of renewing the Crusades)...at best, these hegellian hucksters only throw the occassional scrap to such peoplle, in order to keep their support.  Nor can I get "hot" over the prospect of bloodshed, as it's quite obvious many "Christians" do.

Nothing wrong with conquering moslem nations...the problems come when we give them back, we should learn from history and keep these countries, make them part of our Empire and use an iron fist to eliminate opposition (including the Moslem religion)...in a hundred years everyone would be much better off

Quote
It is true, Islam = objective blasphemy.  Besides the obvious problems in it's creed and common implimentation throughout history

But that's not the real problem here, is it? The Buddhists are technically blasphemers as well and likewise the Hindus, but I have nothing against having a Buddhist or Hindu neighbour...infact I would get on my knees right now and give thanks to God with tears of joy if all the middle east converted to Buddhism. The problem is islam and islamic culture, that is what makes them impossible to live with, that is why they must be destroyed. It's either us or them.

Quote
we've done a pretty good job (the west in general) of screwing up this region in our interventions thus far (whether we speak about the often arbitrary borders the British gave them, or this latest adventure in Iraq which I think in the end is either going to necessitate further conflicts, or degenerate into a civil war once the Americans leave....basically, a few thousand young Americans dead, to establish yet another "Islamic Republic".)

The problem with what the British did was not conquering the middle east and making it part of their empire, the problem was giving the land back...in a sense these problems today are the fault of the British, who should have stayed in the reigon and fulfilled their responsiblity as an enlightened culture overseeing a primitive one and guiding it into the modern age.

Quote
What is really needful, as always, is in the spiritual and moral realm - and it begins at home.  While the faith of the Mohammedans is largely in lies, it is superior to the de facto atheism of the west, if only because it is stronger and creates harder, more principled men.

I wonder if the 'atheism of the west' isn't superior not only to Islam but also Christianity; to be honest, with my experience with atheists I have found them to be far more loving and caring than many Christians I have known...I have no doubt that many atheists follow the spirit of the gospels better than many Christians. Plus, when was the last time that an atheist suicide bomber blew up a bus full of children?

Quote
We are not even quite sure what we are, yet we expect victory over our "Assyrians", as it were?  We (speaking broadly of westerners in general, not simply America) kill babies like we take out the trash, yet we call the Muslims bloodthirsty?

What good does it do to allow a baby to be born only to grow up in the oppression of islamic culture and society? If the moslems allowed abortion it would be an act of mercy.

Quote
We have sodomites prancing in parades and basically "recruiting" amongst an increasingly bewildered youth...and we're going to poo-poo the Muslims for being too restrictive in their "excessive" modesty?

It's not the modesty of the moslems that we condemn, but the fact that they force it on others. They fact that they attempt to destroy the divine image in man by removing from him his freedoms. They apply 7th century cultural ideals to the modern world, and thus have become an enemy of civilization. Their modesty has been condemned because it is nothing more than a white-washed sepulchre which contains all kinds of uncleanness...a condemnation of islamic 'modesty' is a condemnation of hypocrisy.

Quote
We idolize whoredom, but give sermons to Muslims on "women's rights"?

A few western european countries may have legalized prostitution, but we hardly 'idolize' it. But in any case, I really dont see how it is worse to have such institutions in open view than to do what islam does and simply hide them under the surface because of fear and oppression. Again, this is nothing more than another example of the hypocracy of Islam. As far as women's rights go, that's part of the modern world, and any culture that does not embrace it has no business existing on our planet today.

Quote
There are big problems here, problems which do cry up to Heaven at least as much as anything the Muslims are guilty of.  So while this lady's anti-Muslim argument is fundamentally correct, the idea that we are on stable ground ourselves as a civilization is delusional.

No one every said we were perfect, but we're infinitely better than Islam, and more importantly we are better than what we were in the past.

Quote
Upon reflection, I often feel our own position to be akin to that of the earliest Christians living in Rome.  I "pray for the Emperor" and the institutions of the state; but I fully recognize there is much that is rotten about both Caesar and his Empire, and would not be at all surprised if God favoured the barbarians over us.

And of that very Ceasar whom you condemn, St. Paul taught us that he did not bear the sword in vain. And so can our leaders today, in wielding the sword against Islam, use the sword not in vain but to the Glory of God.
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2006, 09:19:21 AM »

Nothing wrong with conquering moslem nations...the problems come when we give them back, we should learn from history and keep these countries, make them part of our Empire and use an iron fist to eliminate opposition (including the Moslem religion)...in a hundred years everyone would be much better off

GiC,

    Contrary to your screen name, I swear you were meant to be born a "radical Serb" in the heart of Kosovo or Bosnia!!!  Grin Grin Grin

     Also, I understand what you are saying here, but I don't think it is realistic (even if it were attempted).  Look at the Ottomans in the Balkans.  In some regions in the Balkans, the Turks attempted to wipe out all traces of Orthodoxy (like Bosnia).  They forbid Orthodox Churches/worship, banished or murdered clergy and even forbid Serbian cultural ceremonies, as a means of Islamicizing Serbs.  They were successful with about 1/2 the population, but ultimately the Serbian population learned to adapt.  Slava's were done in secret.  Liturgy was held in homes instead of Churches and while music and dancing was forbidden, Serbs in Bosnia, began a tradition of dancing to the jingling sounds of coins which were a part of traditional womens clothing.

Quote
The problem is islam and islamic culture, that is what makes them impossible to live with, that is why they must be destroyed. It's either us or them.
I agree and a big part of their culture is fear and intimidation.  There is virtually no dissent in Islam, which makes this women's statements even more compelling.

Quote
to be honest, with my experience with atheists I have found them to be far more loving and caring than many Christians I have known
But who are we supposed to be loving and caring towards?  Isn't it everyone, including the muslims?  I'm asking that genuinely, because I often feel like I am betraying my Orthodox Christian values when I'm railing against Islam.

Quote
It's not the modesty of the moslems that we condemn, but the fact that they force it on others.
I couldn't agree more, but still think you are a closet radical Serb!!!  Grin

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And of that very Ceasar whom you condemn, St. Paul taught us that he did not bear the sword in vain. And so can our leaders today, in wielding the sword against Islam, use the sword not in vain but to the Glory of God.
How about we call you Vojislav Seselj (get S1389 to tell you who he is if you don't know)! Wink
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2006, 09:41:48 AM »

Contrary to your screen name, I swear you were meant to be born a "radical Serb" in the heart of Kosovo or Bosnia!!!  Grin Grin Grin

I'll take that as a complement...and I'm assuming that's how you intended it  Grin Undecided Grin

Quote
Also, I understand what you are saying here, but I don't think it is realistic (even if it were attempted).  Look at the Ottomans in the Balkans.  In some regions in the Balkans, the Turks attempted to wipe out all traces of Orthodoxy (like Bosnia).  They forbid Orthodox Churches/worship, banished or murdered clergy and even forbid Serbian cultural ceremonies, as a means of Islamicizing Serbs.  They were successful with about 1/2 the population, but ultimately the Serbian population learned to adapt.  Slava's were done in secret.  Liturgy was held in homes instead of Churches and while music and dancing was forbidden, Serbs in Bosnia, began a tradition of dancing to the jingling sounds of coins which were a part of traditional womens clothing.

Well, remember that technology prohibited the Ottomans from being more thorough than we could be today, but also look at the history of many more countries that were once Christian, occupied by the Moslems, and today are Moslem Countries...perhaps the Serbs are just more stubborn than most Wink Plus, it's not like the moslems were offering a religion that was any better than what the Serbs already had...in in Islamic countries, from a social perspective anything would be better than what they already have, it is really not hard to get people to choose freedom over oppression in the matter of a few generations.

Quote
But who are we supposed to be loving and caring towards?  Isn't it everyone, including the muslims?  I'm asking that genuinely, because I often feel like I am betraying my Orthodox Christian values when I'm railing against Islam.

On an individual basis, you have a wonderful point, and if a Moslem showed up at my door I would offer him the same hospitality that I would give to a Christian, atheist, buddhist, or any other human being...but as an institution Islam is evil and should be destroyed. It an idea that is not more contradictory than someone who had great respect for the German People and German Culture, and was even able to respect the German soldier, yet supported a war to destroy fascism during WWII, infact this attitude describes most English and Americans (well, the english might have become somewhat more bitter towards the individuals after the Battle of Britain, but you know what I mean)

Quote
I couldn't agree more, but still think you are a closet radical Serb!!!  Grin
How about we call you Vojislav Seselj (get S1389 to tell you who he is if you don't know)! Wink

 Grin
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2006, 12:46:05 PM »

But who are we supposed to be loving and caring towards?  Isn't it everyone, including the muslims?  I'm asking that genuinely, because I often feel like I am betraying my Orthodox Christian values when I'm railing against Islam.  

On an individual basis, you have a wonderful point, and if a Moslem showed up at my door I would offer him the same hospitality that I would give to a Christian, atheist, buddhist, or any other human being...but as an institution Islam is evil and should be destroyed. It an idea that is not more contradictory than someone who had great respect for the German People and German Culture, and was even able to respect the German soldier, yet supported a war to destroy fascism during WWII, infact this attitude describes most English and Americans (well, the english might have become somewhat more bitter towards the individuals after the Battle of Britain, but you know what I mean)

A point that bears repeating often!
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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2006, 09:40:00 PM »

I agree absolutely with Augustine's remarks. The contemporary "Christian" countries shouldn't be too much proud of themselves.
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« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2006, 09:43:25 PM »

What good does it do to allow a baby to be born only to grow up in the oppression of islamic culture and society? If the moslems allowed abortion it would be an act of mercy.
This argument is horrible. I cannot believe that a Christian may think in such a manner. Abortion is a crime against human life. Period.
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« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2006, 09:47:55 PM »

This argument is horrible. I cannot believe that a Christian may think in such a manner. Abortion is a crime against human life. Period.

So is Islam.
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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2006, 05:19:39 AM »

The important for us, as Orthodox Christians, is to be able to make the distinction between the Evil and the man who commits an evil act, under the influence of the Evil one, even in the Name of God! This the case, among others, of the Muslims who, out of ignorance, follow a false prophet, a deceived one and a deceiver. Indeed, in cases like that of the fanatic Muslims, the hatred may be presented to our mind as a "normal" reaction.
Well, the question is: how could someone arrive at the point to make the distinction between an evil religion and the followers of it, who have not been taught that God is Love and that Logos was made Flesh? I think, the answer is what the Fathers say "we have been taught to hate the Sin, not the Sinner".
In fact, this is one - but very important - aspect of the fullfillment of the commandment of love. How could we apply this principle to our lives? It is extremely hard, yes! Well, this can be achieved only by the Grace of God through our personal effort and a tremendous spiritual struggle. Judging from what I have read in the patristic and ascetic literature, I can say there is no other way. ÂÂ
St Stephen wouldn't have prayed for his executioners during his martyrdom if he hadn't already been a holy man, by the Grace of God. His holiness even before his martyrdom is testified by the Acts of the Apostles (6,15): "And all that sat in the council, fastening their eyes on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel".
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2006, 12:17:04 PM »

I can't believe that Sesej came into the conversation, what a web-site!!!   Grin
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2006, 12:30:50 PM »

Pic of GiC at HCHC.
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2006, 02:13:28 PM »

Nah, that's not me, automatic weapons are for suppression fire, and barrel is not long enough on that to give good accuracy, if I was carrying an automatic it would be belt fed (7.62mm, of course, if you're using the 5.56mm you might as well just be shooting paint)...otherwise I would prefer to stick with a reliable semi-auto (or possibly bolt-action if scoped - unless I could get my hands on one of those new M107 .50 cals) accurate 7.62mm (the M1 Garand would be better, but supply of .30 cal (as with the .50 cal) could be a problem as production centres for amunition are fewer and further between)...but I do think I have that pin he's wearing on his hat, or something very similar Wink
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2006, 02:22:29 PM »

The important for us, as Orthodox Christians, is to be able to make the distinction between the Evil and the man who commits an evil act, under the influence of the Evil one, even in the Name of God! This the case, among others, of the Muslims who, out of ignorance, follow a false prophet, a deceived one and a deceiver. Indeed, in cases like that of the fanatic Muslims, the hatred may be presented to our mind as a "normal" reaction.
Well, the question is: how could someone arrive at the point to make the distinction between an evil religion and the followers of it, who have not been taught that God is Love and that Logos was made Flesh? I think, the answer is what the Fathers say "we have been taught to hate the Sin, not the Sinner".
In fact, this is one - but very important - aspect of the fullfillment of the commandment of love. How could we apply this principle to our lives? It is extremely hard, yes! Well, this can be achieved only by the Grace of God through our personal effort and a tremendous spiritual struggle. Judging from what I have read in the patristic and ascetic literature, I can say there is no other way. ÂÂ
St Stephen wouldn't have prayed for his executioners during his martyrdom if he hadn't already been a holy man, by the Grace of God. His holiness even before his martyrdom is testified by the Acts of the Apostles (6,15): "And all that sat in the council, fastening their eyes on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel".

Actually, I believe I made that point, but the destruction of the Evil of Islam may have some cost in the lives of its followers, but the defeat of Islam would be the greater good. As far as my statement about death being preferable to living under the oppression of Islam, I'll stand by that statement, but perhaps that's my enlightenement revolutionary philosophy at work, ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑ Ή ΘΑΝΑΤΟΣ!
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2006, 02:40:21 PM »

Nah, that's not me, automatic weapons are for suppression fire, and barrel is not long enough on that to give good accuracy, if I was carrying an automatic it would be belt fed (7.62mm, of course, if you're using the 5.56mm you might as well just be shooting paint)...otherwise I would prefer to stick with a reliable semi-auto (or possibly bolt-action if scoped - unless I could get my hands on one of those new M107 .50 cals) accurate 7.62mm (the M1 Garand would be better, but supply of .30 cal (as with the .50 cal) could be a problem as production centres for amunition are fewer and further between)...but I do think I have that pin he's wearing on his hat, or something very similar Wink
Oy vey... the first seminary student fit to be head of the NRA.  Grin Grin

By the way, that was Seslj in the photo, but you probably already knew that.
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2006, 03:28:12 PM »

Oy vey... the first seminary student fit to be head of the NRA.  Grin Grin

Oh, I'm by no means the first, but I do come from a family of staunch NRA supporters, my grandfather probably gives a higher percent of his yearly income to the NRA-ILA than 99.9% of Orthodox give to the Church (not that that's saying much) Wink

Quote
By the way, that was Seslj in the photo, but you probably already knew that.

He looked familiar, but couldn't place a name to the face; he was a good man and is an unfortunate victim of the politically motivated kangaroo court that is the Hague.
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« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2006, 04:07:11 PM »

Oh, I'm by no means the first, but I do come from a family of staunch NRA supporters, my grandfather probably gives a higher percent of his yearly income to the NRA-ILA than 99.9% of Orthodox give to the Church (not that that's saying much) Wink
Sorry GiC, but I'm firmly in the "nobody in the world should own a gun camp". <cringing while waiting for your response>lol

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He looked familiar, but couldn't place a name to the face; he was a good man and is an unfortunate victim of the politically motivated kangaroo court that is the Hague.
The all-time funniest politician in Serbian history.  I wish you could speak Serbian, because boy oh boy could I send you some video clips of things he's said!!!
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« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2006, 10:57:42 PM »

send it to him anyway.  When i come back from spring break i'll translate it for him on the spot.  

that is if you want it GiC
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« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2006, 11:27:46 PM »

While the faith of the Mohammedans is largely in lies, it is superior to the de facto atheism of the west, if only because it is stronger and creates harder, more principled men.

I'd feel safer facing God on Judgement Day if I were an atheistic Norwegian wuss rather than a macho Saudi Muslim who murders his sister because she was raped by a stranger and my "honor" was offended when the community found out about it.
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« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2006, 02:09:33 AM »

Sorry GiC, but I'm firmly in the "nobody in the world should own a gun camp". <cringing while waiting for your response>lol

Well, this is one of the issues in American politics that no amount of debate will solve, I would die to defend my posistion and I'm guessing you're almost as adamant about yours. Though I will say that I strongly support laws that would require every person above the age of 16 to own a firearm that is capable of military use and at least 2000 rounds of ammunition. My personal preference would be to standardize this as the M1 Garand, but if the military inists on M16's, then so be it. Furthermore, I believe the second amendment forbids the restricting of any military weapon and that laws restricting this right to keep and bear arms are both unconstitutional and treasonous.

Yet as I seriously doubt you'll be budged from your posistion and I know without a doubt that I will never be budged from mine, it would probably be best if we simply agreed to disagree...lol.

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The all-time funniest politician in Serbian history.  I wish you could speak Serbian, because boy oh boy could I send you some video clips of things he's said!!!

Well if you got something good, and if serb1389 is willing to translate it for me, I would be happy to see and hear it.
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« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2006, 01:40:59 AM »

SHOCKING UPDATE: Practioners from the 'Religion of Peace' threaten life of women after debate on Al  Jazeera....  (my headline)

For Muslim Who Says Violence Destroys Islam, Violent Threats

By JOHN M. BRODER NY Times.com
Published: March 11, 2006


LOS ANGELES, March 10 — Three weeks ago, Dr. Wafa Sultan was a largely unknown Syrian-American psychiatrist living outside Los Angeles, nursing a deep anger and despair about her fellow Muslims.

Today, thanks to an unusually blunt and provocative interview on Al Jazeera television on Feb. 21, she is an international sensation, hailed as a fresh voice of reason by some, and by others as a heretic and infidel who deserves to die.

In the interview, which has been viewed on the Internet more than a million times and has reached the e-mail of hundreds of thousands around the world, Dr. Sultan bitterly criticized the Muslim clerics, holy warriors and political leaders who she believes have distorted the teachings of Muhammad and the Koran for 14 centuries.

She said the world's Muslims, whom she compares unfavorably with the Jews, have descended into a vortex of self-pity and violence.

Dr. Sultan said the world was not witnessing a clash of religions or cultures, but a battle between modernity and barbarism, a battle that the forces of violent, reactionary Islam are destined to lose.

In response, clerics throughout the Muslim world have condemned her, and her telephone answering machine has filled with dark threats. But Islamic reformers have praised her for saying out loud, in Arabic and on the most widely seen television network in the Arab world, what few Muslims dare to say even in private.

"I believe our people are hostages to our own beliefs and teachings," she said in an interview this week in her home in a Los Angeles suburb.

Dr. Sultan, who is 47, wears a prim sweater and skirt, with fleece-lined slippers and heavy stockings. Her eyes and hair are jet black and her modest manner belies her intense words: "Knowledge has released me from this backward thinking. Somebody has to help free the Muslim people from these wrong beliefs."

Perhaps her most provocative words on Al Jazeera were those comparing how the Jews and Muslims have reacted to adversity. Speaking of the Holocaust, she said, "The Jews have come from the tragedy and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror; with their work, not with their crying and yelling."

She went on, "We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people."

She concluded, "Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."

<snip>

But, she said, her life changed in 1979 when she was a medical student at the University of Aleppo, in northern Syria. At that time, the radical Muslim Brotherhood was using terrorism to try to undermine the government of President Hafez al-Assad. Gunmen of the Muslim Brotherhood burst into a classroom at the university and killed her professor as she watched, she said.

"They shot hundreds of bullets into him, shouting, 'God is great!' " she said. "At that point, I lost my trust in their god and began to question all our teachings. It was the turning point of my life, and it has led me to this present point. I had to leave. I had to look for another god."
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« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2006, 01:49:33 AM »

Wow.....and this is coming from the New York Times of all places. I hope and pray that there will not be a retraction and apology.. Grin
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« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2006, 05:46:20 AM »

Very brave lady taking on the islamo-fascist.....

Am I brave for taking on Removed because it crossed the line into American Politics.  Please take it to the politics forum?
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« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2006, 03:41:49 AM »

The Religion of Peace strikes again!

Afghan Man Faces Death for Allegedly Converting to Christianity
Sunday, March 19, 2006
FoxNews.com  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188364,00.html

EXCERPT:
KABUL, Afghanistan — An Afghan man who allegedly converted from Islam to Christianity is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death, a judge said Sunday.

The defendant, Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family went to the police and accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told the Associated Press in an interview. Such a conversion would violate the country's Islamic laws.

Rahman, who is believed to be 41, was charged with rejecting Islam when his trial started last week, the judge said.

During the hearing, the defendant allegedly confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago when he was 25 and working as a medical aid worker for Afghan refugees in neighboring Pakistan, Mawlavezada said.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which states that any Muslim who rejects their religion should be sentenced to death.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty."
----------------


Dam...and I thought Afghanistan was going to be free. It's the Taliban all over again. Where are all the people that view Christianity as being such a huge threat to their civil liberties in this country? Not a word from the school marms and 'green' crowd'? We know if it were the other way around and a Christian judge was executing somebody for being non-Christian, we'd never hear the end of it....and yet the so-called "peaceful Muslims" remain silent over this? Ahh,that's right, the ohh so large monolithic group of moderate muslims... Roll Eyes I would like to know where are all the outbursts from the ACLU over this? Oh, that's right.... they're too busy trying to sue Christanity out of existence. It's too bad they can't even see who the real enemy is. I better stop here before I say something that may get me banned. Looks more and more like it was a mistake for us to go over to the middle east. If I had any say in the matter, I would have reccomended putting a large wall between them and the rest of the 'civilized' world.  When they are ready to step out of the 7th century, then maybe they can come out and play with the rest of us...until then, I hope widespread decay and famine comes over thier lands. (there, I said it!)


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« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2006, 09:05:51 AM »

Taliban or no, if they don't get the sharia out of their civil law, then this is what's going to happen.
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« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2006, 09:53:13 AM »

 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2006, 10:18:51 AM »

Dam...and I thought Afghanistan was going to be free. It's the Taliban all over again. Where are all the people that view Christianity as being such a huge threat to their civil liberties in this country? Not a word from the school marms and 'green' crowd'? We know if it were the other way around and a Christian judge was executing somebody for being non-Christian, we'd never hear the end of it....and yet the so-called "peaceful Muslims" remain silent over this? Ahh,that's right, the ohh so large monolithic group of moderate muslims... Roll Eyes I would like to know where are all the outbursts from the ACLU over this? Oh, that's right.... they're too busy trying to sue Christanity out of existence. It's too bad they can't even see who the real enemy is. I better stop here before I say something that may get me banned. Looks more and more like it was a mistake for us to go over to the middle east. If I had any say in the matter, I would have reccomended putting a large wall between them and the rest of the 'civilized' world.  When they are ready to step out of the 7th century, then maybe they can come out and play with the rest of us...until then, I hope widespread decay and famine comes over thier lands. (there, I said it!)

I didn't suspect the moslems would change much on their own and our letting them re-establish their government without our assistance is a joke. Oh well, hopefully we can turn this into an excuse to bomb them...if they want to live in the 7th century I'm more than happy to keep them there. I understand that random carpet-bombing of densely populated areas probably wont help things on the ground too much, but, heck, it's easier than an occupation and free-falling bombs arn't that expensive and it would be a step closer to what our ultimate goal should be...the Complete Destruction of Islam by ALL Means Necessary. I mean, with a 99% Moslem population, even with random and indiscriminate carpet-bombing you can be certain you're hitting a legitimate target, well 99% of the time.
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« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2006, 11:32:17 AM »

GiC,

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...the Complete Destruction of Islam by ALL Means Necessary. I mean, with a 99% Moslem population, even with random and indiscriminate carpet-bombing you can be certain you're hitting a legitimate target, well 99% of the time.

Do you express this viewpoint of yours as one representative of Christian morality? In other words, let's say I could ask Christ one question, and I (because i'm an idiot) decided to waste it on asking whether or not He would condone the execution of the above-quoted idea; how would Christ, as depicted in the head of GiC, respond?
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« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2006, 12:03:34 PM »

I hope Dr Sultan will not have to face trial at the Hague for a hate crime against her own religion.
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« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2006, 01:35:07 PM »

Do you express this viewpoint of yours as one representative of Christian morality? In other words, let's say I could ask Christ one question, and I (because i'm an idiot) decided to waste it on asking whether or not He would condone the execution of the above-quoted idea; how would Christ, as depicted in the head of GiC, respond?

Perhaps he'd respond with something along the lines of: 'For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.'

Not that I'd compare the US President to the Emperor of Rome, but in the absence of our most beloved Emperor, the vice-regent of Christ on Earth, someone must act as defender of Righteousness and perhaps that someone is the US in this current conflict.

Or perhaps he'd say '[Islam] shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.'

Yes, I'll grant that this is a culturally and socially motivated verse and probably not from the mouth of God, but that doesn't mean that God opposes it either. I'm generally fairly tolerant of other religions...except Islam...in that case I believe it is a struggle to the death and one only one side Islam or Civilization will remain standing in the end. I cast my lot in with civilization, and believe our victory must be total, no matter what the Cost. And as I view this as self-defence I see no evil or wrong-doing in my proposed actions.
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« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2006, 01:38:48 PM »

Interesting that GiC opposes the death penalty for pedophiles and other child killers - yet he has no qualms about carpet-bombing innocent children simply because their parents are Muslims, or they simply have never been given another option.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 01:40:39 PM by TomS » Logged
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