Author Topic: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion  (Read 843 times)

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Offline theorthodoxchurch

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Offline Nephi

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2014, 01:01:22 AM »
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The Coptic Pope, presently Pope Tawadros II, is considered to be the spiritual father of the OO Communion and is given primacy of honour among the OO Churches as a part of the homage paid to the Alexandrian Throne of St Mark the Evangelist. However, while the Coptic Pope does enjoy primacy of honour, he does not have any authority over sister churches.

Hey, now where have we heard something like this recently... :P

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At the very least, Orthodox Christians should be aware of the names of the Patriarch/Catholicos of their sister OO churches.

Sadly I don't even know the names of all the EO primates myself. :angel:

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However, it seems that some Orthodox ecumenists only have reunion with the Vatican in mind, dismissing completely what should be the priority. If you desert your own brethren, do not shake hands, nor smile at your own family, then what is the use of shaking hands with a stranger?

I thought this was aptly put, and applicable to some EO's who aim solely towards Rome and ignore the OO.

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Why is it then that the Vatican has not responded to the numerous complaints made by the Indian Orthodox Church? Without a doubt, the Vatican is being two-faced. They express ‘love and ecumenism’ using the smile of the Pope to win hearts, and the pomp and glory of the RCC to woo the Orthodox ecumenists; yet at the same time the RCC supports the Eastern Catholics who attack the Orthodox Churches.

8)

Overall an interesting read for someone that knows rather little of the internal affairs of the OO Communion.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 01:04:58 AM by Nephi »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2014, 01:12:19 AM »
Overall an interesting read for someone that knows rather little of the internal affairs of the OO Communion.

In a number of ways, yes.  But in some other ways, it's just a lot of bloviating from someone reflecting a particular perspective which is not not even widely held in his own jurisdiction. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Nephi

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2014, 01:22:40 AM »
Overall an interesting read for someone that knows rather little of the internal affairs of the OO Communion.

In a number of ways, yes.  But in some other ways, it's just a lot of bloviating from someone reflecting a particular perspective which is not not even widely held in his own jurisdiction. 

Care to explain? I neither know the author, nor his jurisdiction, nor how his views match up. I just know bloviating can't be good, since it makes me think "bloviating buffoon."

Offline CopticDeacon

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2014, 03:48:43 PM »
http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2014/06/reflections-on-the-future-of-the-oriental-orthodox-communion/

This is an awesome article that discusses our current situation and issues with schism. It briefly discusses the Addis Ababa Conference of 1965. Share your thoughts. I enjoyed reading it and I would love to be apart of the creation of a common platform for our Church(es). The need for that possible "es" is what needs to stop. We need to know our brothers and sisters and act as one family, because we are one family. Until the opportunity arises, I pray.

Thanks.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Offline CopticDeacon

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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2014, 04:53:15 PM »
In the main, I agree with the author's call for greater unity, increased dialogue, et cetera.  (Is the author also the OP in this thread?)  There are also a few points, however, on which I disagree.  For example, I find his rather harsh appraisal of the Roman Catholic churches deriving from the Malankara tradition on the one hand and his overly charitable assessment of the Protestant churches deriving from the same tradition on the other to be disingenuous and perhaps colored by his jurisdictional affiliation.   I believe it is a mistake to count the "Mar Thoma" church as a "church of Oriental Orthodox origin" while simultaneously characterizing the Malankara Catholic churches as usurpers or some sort of foreign threat. Both are the fruit of Western missionary efforts which tore apart the indigenous Oriental Orthodox community of Kerala, both teach heterodoxy, both have lead the Orthodox faithful astray, and both claim to be the true heirs of St. Thomas and his teaching while that title rightfully belongs to the Orthodox. If anything, the Protestant churches are further afield than the Catholics.  Protestant influence - particularly Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" music, practices and literature - is one of the biggest threats facing our Oriental Orthodox Communion today, and Indian Orthodox youth who come home from activities with the "Mar Thoma" church thinking it is okay to make these things a part of our practice need to be protected against such through right teaching.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 04:53:40 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2014, 05:08:03 PM »
I can't delete it, but I can merge it.   :)

Offline minasoliman

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Reflections on the Future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 12:44:55 PM »
I thought this article by OCP was interesting:

http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2014/06/reflections-on-the-future-of-the-oriental-orthodox-communion/

Some of the main concerns of the article was how fragmented we are as an Oriental Orthodox communion, and not in unison with so many things.  I was taken by how much we are readily able to have dialogues with non-Orthodox, and we are not having dialogues within ourselves first, trying to bring the Malankara Orthodox and the Malankara Syrians together, as well as dialoguing with the Ethiopian Synod in Exile.  We also have quite a large number in the US.  We are on the verge of establishing a good basis and understanding of our respective traditions, and perhaps bring this to fruition to some sort of educative purpose for our next generation, like for example a pan-OO seminary.

I disagreed with the author however in his anger against the Malankara Catholic website while giving the Mar Thoma Church the benefit of having OO roots despite its Protestant beliefs.  Nonetheless, it's an article worth reading and considering, I think.
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Reflections on the Future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2014, 01:00:51 PM »
Here in the UK there is very, very little interaction of OO Orthodox. If people do not visit each other's congregations then we have not even begun to experience unity.
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Offline DavidI

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Re: Reflections on the Future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2014, 01:10:11 PM »
I was taken by how much we are readily able to have dialogues with non-Orthodox, and we are not having dialogues within ourselves first, trying to bring the Malankara Orthodox and the Malankara Syrians together, as well as dialoguing with the Ethiopian Synod in Exile. 

Well here's some good news I hope: http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2014/07/pope-tawadros-ii-expresses-interest-to-mediate-unity-between-syriac-and-indian-orthodox-churches-calls-for-peace-in-malankara/

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His Holiness Tawadros II – Pope & Patriarch of Alexandria and Primate of the Coptic Orthodox Church has expressed his at most desire to mediate conciliar unity between the Syriac and Indian Orthodox Churches. Pope informed the same to Fr Dr K M George (Special envoy of  Baselios Paulose II- Catholicos of the East & Metropolitan of Malankara – Primate of the Indian Orthodox Malankara Church) in a meeting which was held in the month of May 2014.

Pope stated that there is an urgent need for conciliar unity and peace between the two ancient Orthodox Churches in India. Pope Tawadros and Fr K M George discussed on the details of the dispute between two churches.

Pope also said that he will initiate a discussion with His Holiness Mor Ignatius Aphrem II - Patriarch of Antioch and All East &  Supreme Head of the Universal Syriac Orthodox Church, on unity issues. Fr George conveyed the very cordial invitation of HH the Catholicos Paulose II to HH Tawadros to visit India and the ancient See of St Thomas. Pope replied that, he would be happy to do the same on an appropriate occasion.

Pope Tawadros II and the Catholicos Baselios Paulose II had previously met during the Papal enthronement ceremony at Cairo in 2012.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 05:13:11 PM »
I can't delete it, but I can merge it.   :)

LOL! My mistake...geez, I was looking for this. (Funny thing is, this is the second time you had to merge)

David! Yes, this does sound like good news.  May The Lord bring this to fruition.

Abouna Peter, bless!

How should one rectify this problem? Could one encourage a huge group in the congregation to frequently visit each other's parishes, and not merely an annual event?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 05:16:20 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 05:15:30 PM »
It must be quite an essay if three different people started threads on it.   :)

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 05:45:02 PM »
(Funny thing is, this is the second time you had to merge)

Nah, the funny thing is you and I each wrote almost exactly the same post without knowing what the other guy wrote.  Simpatico, baby!  ;D
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 06:12:32 PM »
How should one rectify this problem? Could one encourage a huge group in the congregation to frequently visit each other's parishes, and not merely an annual event?

Could you guys possibly do semi-regular rotating pan-Orthodox Vespers or something? This is something I've seen done among local EO with Antiochians, Greeks, ROCOR, etc. attending and building ties nicely. Of course, by "rotating" I also mean rotating the Rite used (I'm assuming they're different) as well as the host parish.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Reflections on the future of the Oriental Orthodox Communion
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2014, 07:10:06 PM »
Could you guys possibly do semi-regular rotating pan-Orthodox Vespers or something? This is something I've seen done among local EO with Antiochians, Greeks, ROCOR, etc. attending and building ties nicely. Of course, by "rotating" I also mean rotating the Rite used (I'm assuming they're different) as well as the host parish.

We're starting...

http://www.scooch.org/2013/07/oriental-orthodox-unity-sharing-one-anothers-feast-days-and-special-events/

http://www.scooch.org/2013/06/oriental-orthodox-youth-conference-recap/

http://www.scooch.org/2013/04/philadelphia-regional-concelebrated-liturgy/

http://www.scooch.org/2013/10/annual-oriental-orthodox-concelebrated-liturgy-hosted-by-syriac-orthodox-church/

http://www.scooch.org/2014/04/oriental-orthodox-christians-gather-in-philadelphia-for-second-annual-regional-concelebrated-liturgy/

And those who are sincerely interested can register for our latest joint event:

http://www.scooch.org/ministry/
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