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Author Topic: Indian Saints?  (Read 1879 times) Average Rating: 0
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Kristophoros
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« on: March 01, 2006, 10:23:52 PM »

Does anyone know a good resources/ website to inquire about Indian Saints?  In particular, is anyone familiar with any female/ Orthodox Indian Saints?
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Bar Hebraeus
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2006, 11:22:06 PM »

The most famous orthodox saint in India might be Parumala Thirumeni.(translates as Bishop of Parumala) Visit this site for more information.
http://www.parumalathirumeni.com/
Another Saint is Mor athanatius of Aluva also known as "aaluvayile valiya thirumeni" (translates as senior bishop of aluva) He is also called the defender of true faith.
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The Mor Athanasius Paulose (Valiya Thirumeni) was born on 23rd Jan 1869 to 'Mathai' of Ayyambillil Thekkekarayil family and `Anna' of Kuttikatt Painadath family of Nayathodu, Akaparambu, Angamali. He was christened as PAULOSE at the ancient Akaparambu Mor Sabor Mor Apfroth church. He was ordained Metropolitan by H.H. Patriarch Ignatius Abded 'Aloho II in 1910. He bacame the Malankara Metropolitan in 1918. He died on January 25, 1953.
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dhinuus
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2006, 01:29:58 PM »

There are no female orthodox saints of indian ethnicity. In the Syrian Catholic Church of Malabar (Syro-Malabar) an Eastern Rite / Uniate of the Roman Catholic church, they have a female saint of indian ethnicity and her name is Saint Alphonosa who was a nun.

Another female Indian Citizen, Mother Theresa (Indian Citizen by naturalization, she is Albanian born) is in the process of being canonized by the Roman Catholic Church. She is part of the Latin hierarchy and is not part of the Eastern Rite / Uniate.

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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 06:03:24 AM »

There are no female orthodox saints of indian ethnicity.

Why is this, if I may ask?
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Alpo
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 06:57:55 AM »

There are no female orthodox saints of indian ethnicity.

Why is this, if I may ask?

Maybe due to women's position in Indian society?
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kazakage
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2011, 08:52:17 AM »

Saints of the orthodox church :

  * Parumala Thirumeni Gheevarghese Mor Gregorious Declared by the Holy Synod, in 1947, by Catholicos Baselios Gheevarghese II
  * Eldho Mor Baselios of Kothamangalam Declared by the Holy Synod, in 1947, by Catholicos Baselios Gheevarghese II
  * Geevarghese Mar Dionysius of Vattasseril Declared by the Holy Synod, in 2003 by Catholicos Baselios Marthoma Mathews II.

There are only 3 Sad out of which Eldho Bava is not ethnically Indian. And no female Saints yet - number of nuns in the church was always very low, when compared to Catholics. The 2 Catholic women Saints, Saint Alphonsa and Mother Theresa(in future) were both nuns.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 08:54:25 AM by kazakage » Logged
Justin Kissel
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2011, 08:58:47 AM »

There are no female orthodox saints of indian ethnicity.

Why is this, if I may ask?

Maybe due to women's position in Indian society?

So it's just my ignorance showing. Darn. Can I blame it on the fact that I haven't had a world cultures class in 17 or 18 years?  Embarrassed
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2011, 09:10:20 AM »

There are no female orthodox saints of indian ethnicity.

Why is this, if I may ask?

Maybe due to women's position in Indian society?

So it's just my ignorance showing. Darn. Can I blame it on the fact that I haven't had a world cultures class in 17 or 18 years?  Embarrassed

Well that was just a guess. I don't know much about Indian society. I was thinking that If they used to burn their widows that cound indicate position of Women in Indian society in general.
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kazakage
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 10:02:28 AM »

There are no female orthodox saints of indian ethnicity.

Why is this, if I may ask?

Maybe due to women's position in Indian society?

So it's just my ignorance showing. Darn. Can I blame it on the fact that I haven't had a world cultures class in 17 or 18 years?  Embarrassed

Well that was just a guess. I don't know much about Indian society. I was thinking that If they used to burn their widows that cound indicate position of Women in Indian society in general.

I dont think its easy to talk about Indian society in General Smiley Its so diverse. ( Orthodox christians makes up only 8% out of all the 2.3% of total Christians in India Grin)
Such practices were only seen in the Northern Areas where illiteracy and poverty are still prevelant. These areas until the last century had no Christians.The Orthodox church is concentrated in state of Kerala which is way south and has the largest literacy rate, highest sex ratio, and ranks top among the Human Development Index.( Thanks to Christian missionaries)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model#Reasons_for_the_Kerala_Model

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Distribution_of_Christians_in_Indian_states.JPG

« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 10:10:36 AM by kazakage » Logged
dhinuus
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2011, 01:44:06 PM »

Saints of the orthodox church :

  * Parumala Thirumeni Gheevarghese Mor Gregorious Declared by the Holy Synod, in 1947, by Catholicos Baselios Gheevarghese II
  * Eldho Mor Baselios of Kothamangalam Declared by the Holy Synod, in 1947, by Catholicos Baselios Gheevarghese II
  * Geevarghese Mar Dionysius of Vattasseril Declared by the Holy Synod, in 2003 by Catholicos Baselios Marthoma Mathews II.

There are only 3
Kazakage,
Actually the list of 3 you have given is only a partial list of saints of the Orthodox Church from India, as it only includes the list of saints officially canonized by the Autocephalus Malankara Orthodox Church. The autonomous Malankara jurisdiction under the Syriac Orthodox Church has canonized the following:
- Paulose Mor Koorilose (also know as Kochuparambil Thirumeni)
- Paulose Mor Athanasious (also know as Aluva Valiya Thirumeni)
- Sleeba Mor Osthathios of Kunnankulam
- Mor Gregorious Abdul Jaleel of North Paravoor
- Mor Baselious Sakralla of Kandanad
- Moran Mar Ignatious Elisas III of Manjanikkara

From the list given by Kazakage, except for Mar Dionysiis of Vattesseril, the other two saints are venerated as saints by the autonomous Malankara jurisdiction under the SOC also.

Honestly the practice of officially canonizing someone as a saint is alien to the Syriac tradition. This practice of 'OFFICIAL' declaration is some what of a recent thing.  H.G Kuriakoise Mor Gregorious (known as Pampady Thirumeni) is not officially canonized by either jurisdiction, but is widely venerated as a saint by the faithful from both the jurisdictions.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 01:58:14 PM by dhinuus » Logged

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robinjabraham
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 01:00:47 PM »

The status of women has always been different in the north of India v/s the south. In the south, which is where Kerala is, the home of Orthodoxy in India, there are cultures that are known to have matriarchal systems as well long before Christianity came to India.
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 02:58:25 PM »

welcome, robinjabraham.
i found this link on syriac women's ministry, including saints.
i suppose some of these saints must be saints in the indian orthodox church too.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~mmjournl/MaryMartha/THEOLOGICAL%20REFLECTIONS%20/Women%20and%20Spirituality.html
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 11:41:05 PM »

There are no female orthodox saints of indian ethnicity.

Why is this, if I may ask?

The simple answer is that, so far, none have been "canonized".  But, contrary to what some others have suggested, I don't think it has to do with the "status of women in Indian society".  That concept sounds plausible to Westerners used to looking at India with their own ideas, but makes little sense from the inside.   

One poster has already mentioned that the canonization of saints is "alien" to the Syriac tradition (in which the Church in India shares).  I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it is "alien", but certainly it is done differently.  There is no liturgical "rite of canonization" or "glorification", much less a formal process, as there is in Western Churches like the Roman or Byzantine.  If an individual has gained a reputation for sanctity among the faithful, the Church investigates the life, writings, and work of the person, hears the testimony of witnesses if any, etc., and if given the "green light", the Synod simply issues a declaration that the person is to be honoured as a saint with a particular date as his feast, etc.  When the Malankara Orthodox Church canonized St Dionysius (Vattaseril), a "rite" was created, but I think I like the simple declaration better.

"Local" canonizations are not done anymore, as far as I can tell, but historically they were more prevalent.  In the Syriac tradition, multiple calendars particular to regions or monasteries prevailed, with only certain major commemorations (of our Lord, our Lady, and major saints) being common to all the calendars.  "Local" saints would be added to the local calendars by local Churches; if they became popular, they were adopted by others, but this was hardly compulsory.  To this day, most saints' feasts are "local" (thanks to a calendar reform in the 19th century if I'm not mistaken).

It's been noted here that there aren't that many canonized saints of the Church in India.  If you take the combined saints of both factions, it's a low number, and if you consider only those of Indian ethnicity, it's far less.  All of these saints have been canonized in the late 20th or 21st centuries.  They are all bishops.  I'm grateful to God that we've had such a number of holy bishops, but I think there's a cultural thing going on here as well.  It seems like the people associate sanctity almost exclusively with the episcopal rank, and so, no matter how holy anyone else is, they don't think that such a person could be canonized unless they were also a bishop, so they aren't "looking" out for the saints (it's part humility and part hero-worship, IMO).  Genuinely holy people may die and have their holiness remembered and praised, but they'll never think to suggest them for canonization; bishops who die, however, whether holy or not so holy, are treated as de facto saints in the days after their death in a way I find frankly strange (eventually the enthusiasm dies down, but there are always remnants here and there).  How much the canonization of bishops has contributed to this attitude versus the attitude contributing to their canonization, I can't say, but it's just one man's unofficial observation.  Needless to say, if this is the latest MO, women need not apply.  Tongue

There is, however, another factor.  The Church in India is as old as Christianity, and yet there's a lot about the first 1,500 years we don't know because of the lack of documentation.  This is often blamed on the ecclesioterrorism of the Portuguese colonists and the Roman Catholic hierarchy they introduced into India which destroyed books, records, etc.; I don't know how exaggerated that is, but I haven't heard other than that it is essentially true.  Along with all the accumulated liturgical, historical, patristic, etc. documents that did or may have existed from that millenium and a half period, it is likely that "hagiography" disappeared, and so if we had any other saints, be they men or women, their memories would've only survived in oral tradition.  That, coupled with "local" saints, may shed some light on reports of "unnamed saints" I've read in the past, whose tombs are known, feasts are kept, etc., but with no idea of names, history, etc.  It's sad, really...two thousand years of Christianity and very little to show for it. 

I wish the Indian Church would establish an "All Saints of India" feast just to cover the bases.  But good luck, we don't even have a proper "All Saints" feast.  I'd even take that!  Smiley     

     
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Tags: Oriental Orthodox saints Indian Orthodox saints Orthodox saints saints Indian Orthodox 
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