OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 30, 2014, 07:19:30 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Reader's Services at Home  (Read 1723 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Meekle
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316

Meekle of Rohan, Dunadan Bard of the Riddermark


WWW
« on: February 26, 2006, 08:47:03 AM »

I was wondering a few things about reader's services at home.

-Can non readers do them? If so, what about catechumens?
-Are they akathists or something else, and if something else, where would I get the test for it?
-Is there a certain way to go about conducting them, or just reading?

Any info would be helpful  Smiley
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,975


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2006, 09:55:03 PM »

As far as doing "reader's services" at home:
- I think anyone can do them, because the formula used for the "reader's service" that differentiates itself from the regular service is one that is universal for non-priests.
- I would suppose that one can do any of the services of the Liturgical Life of the Church as "reader's services" other than 6 of the 7 sacraments (baptism can be done by any chrismated Christian in an emergency).
- An easy way of converting a regular service into a reader's service is this (and I've gotten different stories from different sources, so I'll provide multiple models):

* Take all priest's/deacon's parts and eliminate them.  Begin the service with "Through the prayers of our holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us."  Continue through the service skipping all priest/deacon parts.  At the end of the service, say again "Through the prayers of...."  Silent prayers are not to be read.

* Eliminate all exclamations of the priest and/or replace them with "Through the prayers of..."  Read deaconal petitions without intoning, and say "Lord, have mercy" without intoning. Silent prayers are not to be read.

I hope this is helpful.  Maybe some other people can speak to which version of the above they've heard/seen used.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Meekle
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316

Meekle of Rohan, Dunadan Bard of the Riddermark


WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2006, 10:13:29 PM »

Yes that was very helpful. Thanks  Smiley

I do have a couple more questions though.

Where does the "Through the prayers..." come in in the Liturgy?

Do you have to worry about the tones, or just read?

Does it require incense, or can it be done without any?
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,975


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2006, 10:31:51 PM »

Well, "Through the prayers of our holy Fathers..." is the final line of each service in the Church.

Worry about the tones if you want to, or just read the hymns if you don't want to.

As for incese, it can be nice, and it adds much to worship, but required in a reader's service - no, I don't think so.  (Of course, if you are doing vespers and reading/singing "Let my prayer arise as incense" it kinda makes sense to cense.)
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Thomas
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,759



« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2006, 10:32:16 PM »

I will try to get the home prayerbook that I have for Readers Services in the Home for you tommorrow. They are very helpful---the only problem for me is that they use full modern English and I prefer KJ style but the book has helped us to do weekday services in our home with our family  and grandchildren without traveling 50 miles one way every day for the daily services.

In Christ,
Thomas
Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
Meekle
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316

Meekle of Rohan, Dunadan Bard of the Riddermark


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2006, 10:37:42 PM »

To Cleveland:

I was referring to how you said start with that line. I was wondering where in the Liturgy that starting line is.

Also, I don't know the tones or have any incense, so that's a bit out of the question  Undecided

To Thomas:

That will be great. Maybe if I get bored I can translate some of it to KJ English  Cheesy
Logged
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2006, 10:45:40 PM »

You can look here for a ROCA site with typica linked to it in the pertinent places.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 10:46:21 PM by Pedro » Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
Meekle
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316

Meekle of Rohan, Dunadan Bard of the Riddermark


WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2006, 10:51:01 PM »

You can look here for a ROCA site with typica linked to it in the pertinent places.

Does ROCOR have the same services as OCA?
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,975


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2006, 06:17:57 AM »

I was referring to how you said start with that line. I was wondering where in the Liturgy that starting line is.

Well, that line isn't used anywhere as a starting line, it is only a finishing line; but when a priest is not present, it becomes the default "replacement line" for the priest's exclamations - beginning, middle, and end.

So anywhere you see "For yours is the Kingdom..." or "For to you we give up glory..." or "Blessed is our God..." you would replace it with "THrough the prayers of our holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us."
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Thomas
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,759



« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2006, 09:59:26 AM »

Here is the information that I promised:  The Title of the prayer book is THE HOURS OF PRAYER: A BOOK OF DEVOTION.  It is published by The Orthodox Brotherhood of the Virgin Mary POB One, Elkhorn West Virginia 24831

It appears to be a mutual project with various aspects done cross jurisdictional lines---the Psalms from St Gregory Palamas Monastery in Hayesville Ohio, Layout and formatting by St Issac of Syria Skete in Boscobel, Wisconsin, Proofreading and textual support by the nuns of The orthodox Monastery of the Transfiguration, Ellwood City. PA,  The nuns of Sts Mary and Martha Convent, Washington DC did the daily readings trial.

It is set up specifically to be done in the home without the presence of a Priest and includes Typica Services as well as hours, Akathist Hymns to Our Lord and the Mother of God. My family, living a distance from the Church have found it to be a great stabilizer in our life allowing us to pray the services of the church with greater frequency and binding our family more closely together.

In Christ,
Thomas
Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
Meekle
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316

Meekle of Rohan, Dunadan Bard of the Riddermark


WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2006, 01:59:04 PM »

Well, that line isn't used anywhere as a starting line, it is only a finishing line; but when a priest is not present, it becomes the default "replacement line" for the priest's exclamations - beginning, middle, and end.

So anywhere you see "For yours is the Kingdom..." or "For to you we give up glory..." or "Blessed is our God..." you would replace it with "THrough the prayers of our holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us."

Quote
Begin the service with "Through the prayers of our holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us."

Now I am confused  Huh

Thank you all for everything. These services will surely help.  Smiley
« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 02:00:13 PM by Meekle » Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,975


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2006, 04:02:16 PM »

Let me try this one more time.

When one does a "Reader's service," be it vespers, matins, compline, akathist, or whatever, one does not read any of the parts that are specifically for the priest and priest alone; these parts include any time "peace be with all" is said, silent prayers, and what are called exclamations: the lines (said aloud) that the people normally say "Amen" to (that normally end with "... of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.")

For example, we do not say in reader's services, "For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory, of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages."

To replace these lines that are called exclamations, we use a line which comes from the end of the services.  The same line is said to end every service in the Church: "Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us."  This line is okay for anyone to say, and when someone is doing a "reader's service," this line is used instead of the priest's lines that we do not say.

Does that make more sense?
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Psalti Boy
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Don't need one
Posts: 842



« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2006, 12:40:43 AM »

I will try to get the home prayerbook that I have for Readers Services in the Home for you tommorrow. They are very helpful---the only problem for me is that they use full modern English and I prefer KJ style but the book has helped us to do weekday services in our home with our family  and grandchildren without traveling 50 miles one way every day for the daily services.

In Christ,
Thomas

Where can I get a copy of that prayer book?
Logged
Thomas
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,759



« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2006, 12:10:22 PM »

I would simply contact the monastery at the address noted, or use Light and Life (I'm sure they would have it) or Christ the Light Giver Bookstore in Cedar Park Texas (That is where I got it).

In Christ,
Thomas

Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
AncientFaith
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 85


« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2006, 02:01:51 PM »

Light and Life do have it, only 12.99.  I just ordered it Smiley  Prayer book number 3.

I'm hoping to essentially replace my Anglican Breviary as I love the Orthodox prayers more.  The only problem I seem to have right now is "figuring" out what I'm supposed to say when.
Logged

---
Patrick
Meekle
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 316

Meekle of Rohan, Dunadan Bard of the Riddermark


WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2006, 06:45:25 PM »

Let me try this one more time.

When one does a "Reader's service," be it vespers, matins, compline, akathist, or whatever, one does not read any of the parts that are specifically for the priest and priest alone; these parts include any time "peace be with all" is said, silent prayers, and what are called exclamations: the lines (said aloud) that the people normally say "Amen" to (that normally end with "... of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.")

For example, we do not say in reader's services, "For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory, of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages."

To replace these lines that are called exclamations, we use a line which comes from the end of the services.  The same line is said to end every service in the Church: "Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us."  This line is okay for anyone to say, and when someone is doing a "reader's service," this line is used instead of the priest's lines that we do not say.

Does that make more sense?

Yes, a bit more. I'm sure the rest of my questions will be answered from the prayerbook itself.  Smiley
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,975


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2006, 08:00:37 PM »

That's good.  Let me know what you think of the prayer-book; I'm looking for something to suggest to some friends of mine...
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,601


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2006, 02:41:35 AM »

I will try to get the home prayerbook that I have for Readers Services in the Home for you tommorrow. They are very helpful---the only problem for me is that they use full modern English and I prefer KJ style but the book has helped us to do weekday services in our home with our family  and grandchildren without traveling 50 miles one way every day for the daily services.

In Christ,
Thomas

If you're interested, another good source for reader's services is Daily Prayer for Orthodox Christians, compiled by Jan Bear and published by St. Ignatius of Antioch Press (copyright 1994) in Columbus, OH.  This prayer book is my favorite and one that we use even for reader's services at church.

Like the book Thomas recommended (see quote above), the book I recommend also uses modern English extensively.  This book does finish every reading of the Our Father with the priest's ending, "For Thine is the Kingdom...", but I just replace this with an ending more appropriate for readers when I read a service from this book.  Daily Prayer also limits itself to the most important daily services of Vespers, Compline, Matins, and the Noon Hour, so it doesn't have anything for the akathist or moleben that you might want to read from time to time.  Even so, I've found Daily Prayer for Orthodox Christians to be an excellent source for most of the prayers I read at home.

Just another option that you might like to consider.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.068 seconds with 44 queries.